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I just watched "Bloodlines." In the context of Picard S3, that episode sure has aged weird.
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Apr 19, 2023 12:48
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skasion posted:prescient isn’t the term I would use. It’s boomer self-congratulation about how they shot down McCarthy and saved the day I think that's much closer to the mark, I've never cared for the episode myself because it's such a sloppy bit of self-fellatio. Thank goodness fascism was so easy to defeat!
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Apr 19, 2023 12:55
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I think that's part of TNG's idealism. DS9 could do corruption in the Federation, but for TNG it always had to be the individual acting out.
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Apr 19, 2023 14:09
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The message of the episode isn't "yay we defeated it, aren't we rad!" it's that we need constant vigilance to keep it from gaining a foothold and it's a short trip for otherwise honorable people to be swept up and be complicit.
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Apr 19, 2023 14:37
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Yeah you can't be cynical and watch TNG, it's extraordinarily sincere. https://twitter.com/EoMProject/status/1648401641983430658 Oh my god we are about to get so many orders that conflict with the standards and morals that the federation stands for zoux fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Apr 19, 2023 |
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Apr 19, 2023 14:48
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"Lower Decks" is a pretty good episode and sidesteps the need to know any of the characters. But yeah, most of the time I would say "Darmok".
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Apr 19, 2023 15:17
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Who Watches The Watchers is also a solid intro, IMO.
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Apr 19, 2023 15:26
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I'd go with Data's Day or Relics
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Apr 19, 2023 15:30
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My pick would be Conundrum, if only because that would make the reveal about Kieran McDuff that much more effective
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Apr 19, 2023 15:35
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjWBj9CGgGI Folks: the Klingons look reasonable.
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Apr 19, 2023 18:31
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zoux posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjWBj9CGgGI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0xqaLLydlc
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Apr 19, 2023 19:07
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^ Is that John Schuck, the actor who was the Klingon representative in IV and VI? I know I've probably harped on how much I despise overexplanations before, so I won't beat a dead horse. F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Apr 19, 2023 |
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Apr 19, 2023 19:10
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I would simply not discuss it with outsiders.
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Apr 19, 2023 19:21
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:^ Is that John Schuck, the actor who was the Klingon representative in IV and VI? yes
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Apr 19, 2023 19:48
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I still laugh at the memory of DISCO S1 not just being set in the future of Trek right from the start, and not just making the terrible Klingons into a brand new race. Oh yeah, cuz they had to milk that 
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Apr 20, 2023 03:02
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Klingon
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Apr 20, 2023 07:09
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I think weird Klingon infiltration war politics was interesting and was annoyed when it all got thrown away as quickly as possible.
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Apr 20, 2023 08:57
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Kling-gone Klingins
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Apr 20, 2023 14:31
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:I think weird Klingon infiltration war politics was interesting and was annoyed when it all got thrown away as quickly as possible. Yeah I feel like if they were going to do that much work on the Klingons early on they needed to commit. They had a lot to justify with the design decisions but I can get into some weird, jarring ideas as long as they're interesting and well-executed. They failed on that front. Personally, I love it when aliens do alien poo poo that throws poo poo into disarray.
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Apr 20, 2023 14:42
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It didn't need to be explained, but as far as retcons go, it worked pretty well, no huge glaring inconsistencies. Also people were big mad about the new Klingons in TMP too
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Apr 20, 2023 15:05
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It was just more that it feels like everything about DISCO felt like it could have fit in future-of-TNG/DS9/etc Trek, yet it was all put into the past to once again milk the SPOCK'S SECRET SISTER bullshit. Also, just to be clear: gently caress Star Trek Discovery. The only thing it has going for it is that eventually Star Trek Picard was somehow far worse.
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Apr 20, 2023 15:44
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Discovery could've been great, I was willing to just ditch some bad seasons and move on if it improved but every step forward came with a whole song and dance sideways and backwards. I still think they could have slam dunk just by making Old Trek again, carpets and episodic. SNW is good but it's still not like a classic Trek, I don't know why these writers are so loving scared to write an episode to stand that can stand on its own two feet, but gently caress I miss it. They have gotten close a few times, and you might arguably be able to pick out a few standalone eps with relatively minimal serial story going on, LD probably the highest amount of those, but live action they seem incapable of producing just a single solitary Trek episode without trying to weasel in the season-long dragged plot.
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Apr 20, 2023 16:15
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I'm sick of prequels and remakes, make something new you cowards.
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Apr 20, 2023 16:24
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I've said it a bunch of times but my ideal Trek show right now would just be a new big explorer ship in the 25th century and in the first episode it deliberately strikes out from Federation space into the unknown and doesn't come back until the finale. And it just doesn't ever touch on things happening in the Federation or any previously established civilisations, and the whole show takes place out beyond the frontier exploring unknown space and meeting new people, and any story arcs involve the new civilisations they meet or stuff on board the ship. Give all the old stuff a break. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Apr 20, 2023 |
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Apr 20, 2023 16:37
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“New” isn’t guaranteed to make that sweet, sweet money. Nostalgia is the piggy bank they can keep breaking open over and over.
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Apr 20, 2023 16:38
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MikeJF posted:I've said it a bunch of times but my ideal Trek show right now would just be a new big explorer ship in the 25th century and in the first episode it leaves Federation space into the unknown and doesn't come back until the finale. So, like of Star Trek went on some kind of Voyage?
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Apr 20, 2023 16:39
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No Dignity posted:So, like of Star Trek went on some kind of Voyage? But without the 'we wish we could stop Voyaging and go home' and 'this ship isn't set up for this' parts.
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Apr 20, 2023 16:40
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MikeJF posted:But without the 'we wish we could stop Voyaging and go home' and 'this ship isn't set up for this' parts. Those parts hardly ever existed in Voyager and they constantly had to toss in throw away lines about how exploration is cool and good and who cares if it delays us for another two weeks Like a solid 90% (if not more) of Voyager was straight up recycled TNG-style episodes with barely even any lip service paid to Voyager not being intended as an exploration ship. Sometimes "we need this rock!" was used in place of the usual "Starfleet told us to go here!" but the stories were otherwise indistinguishable.
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Apr 20, 2023 16:48
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So no problem to cut them out altogether! 
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Apr 20, 2023 16:53
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MikeJF posted:But without the 'we wish we could stop Voyaging and go home' and 'this ship isn't set up for this' parts. Yea this is basically the opposite of what actually happens in Voyager. They're *constantly* not going straight home.
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Apr 20, 2023 16:56
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CainFortea posted:Yea this is basically the opposite of what actually happens in Voyager. They're *constantly* not going straight home. Yeah but they whine about it a bunch.
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Apr 20, 2023 16:58
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:I'm sick of prequels and remakes, make something new you cowards. "Something new" and "prequel" are not exclusive. Imagine there is some show about a famous ship captain fighting the Civil War and there's a line about how his father had served with distinction during the War of 1812. Later, there's a prequel show about his dad fighting the British. It would be new. As far as I can tell, there's never been a show about that.
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Apr 20, 2023 17:01
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I'd be interested in a Lost Era series, we don't know very much about the period between the end of Undiscovered Country and the beginning of TNG.
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Apr 20, 2023 17:06
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Prequel as a term doesn't even apply to Star Trek anymore since we have 5 concurrent canonical series taking place in 6 different timeframes. In order, chronologically with pre 2010s series for reference. <ENT> Disco SNW <TOS> <TNG through Voyager> Lower Decks Prodigy Picard Disco
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Apr 20, 2023 17:15
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MikeJF posted:So no problem to cut them out altogether! Yeah, but Voyager is still poo poo even though the concept of the show is a ship completely separated from Federation space exploring totally unknown territory. The parts where they complain about not being home aren't what brings it down because they basically don't exist. I don't care enough to actually check, but I'm pretty sure they don't even mention their predicament in a solid majority of episodes in any given season. If anything the show is extra explore-y because the crew constantly need to justify doing stupid poo poo by talking about how Starfleet is all about exploring and look how pretty this nebula is
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Apr 20, 2023 17:19
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Paradoxish posted:Yeah, but Voyager is still poo poo even though the concept of the show is a ship completely separated from Federation space exploring totally unknown territory. The parts where they complain about not being home aren't what brings it down because they basically don't exist. I don't care enough to actually check, but I'm pretty sure they don't even mention their predicament in a solid majority of episodes in any given season. They often mention it, but half the time it's just a personal thing and has nothing to do with their situation. "I'm sad that my parents think I'm dead" kind of thing. It rarely drives the story, or even really interacts with it.
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Apr 20, 2023 17:21
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Now, many episodes begin with a bunch of the senior staff returning from some stranded-away-from-home mission so they can crash land on a planet where not everything is as it seems... It is funny that they are invited speakers to symposia and attend regional science conferences.
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Apr 20, 2023 17:27
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Paradoxish posted:Yeah, but Voyager is still poo poo even though the concept of the show is a ship completely separated from Federation space exploring totally unknown territory. Oh, I know. I'm not saying it'd be the secret formula, just saying that it's what I'd like a show to do next because I'm burned out on Federation stuff and prequel stuff and exploring established stuff and want to just go somewhere new. It'll only be good if it's good, of course. (And I do kinda wanna see a depiction of a big grand self-sustaining ship designed to survive years without resupply comfortably that the Enterprise-D was meant to be but never really did)
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Apr 20, 2023 17:29
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MikeJF posted:Oh, I know. I'm not saying it'd be the secret formula, just saying that it's what I'd like a show to do next because I'm burned out on Federation stuff and prequel stuff and exploring established stuff and want to just go somewhere new. It'll only be good if it's good, of course. Yeah, that's fair. I think this has just become my official Star Trek Internet Discussion Pet Peeve because there are definitely people out there who think that some kind of "return to the basics" is a magic formula when Star Trek writers have clearly shown over and over again that they can gently caress that up, too.
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Apr 20, 2023 18:22
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I really just want them to stop writing exclusively for the service of set-pieces. I'm not saying having set-pieces in your story is a bad thing, but when they become the ONLY place the plot moves forward and and everything in-between can become an interchangable mad libs sequence of events to get you there, you have a problem. Unless something changes in the finale (which I won't get to watch until tomorrow) Vadic's whole story was utterly pointless. It only served as pressure to get Picard to Beverly and Jack. They spend 8 episodes fighting her and what she wants to do, defeat her, but then Jack goes ahead and does the thing she was trying to do anyways because if he didn't there would be no plot progression. They almost hang a lampshade on it because she says she's going to tell Jack everything which would actually be some useful plot information only to be interrupted. Even the "fugitives on the lam" aspect of the season could be replaced by any other reason that they were isolated from the resources of the federation and the major plot points would work. There's no cohesion. Let's have the setpiece of the reunion with Geordie (great!) but the reason they did it was to steal a piece of tech that they didn't actually use effectively at any point and nothing would have been changed by them not having it (not great!) Discovery did the same poo poo and the main reason why Lower Decks and SNW haven't succumbed to that is the lack of complicated meta plot. I have no idea how Prodigy is managing to tow that line of serialized story while having the whole trail to get you there have import, but promote that writing team or something. They acutally know what they are doing. Maybe it's a cheat because the characters have a lot of room for growth rather than being etched in stone. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Apr 20, 2023 |
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Apr 20, 2023 18:50
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