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Magnetic North posted:FWD:RE:RE:re: Can you swing a sack of doorknobs? Worse, it's for PR and media type poo poo. If they want me to sell my soul you'd think they'd pay above market rate instead of below and yet
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Apr 24, 2023 16:51
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Toshimo posted:If they stick to the script, the threat was likely a variant of "If we find out these weren't purchased 100% legally, in every way, we will cooperate with law enforcement to treat them as stolen product and pursue that to the fullest extent of the law, including jail time and fines". Which is a threat, but one they can legally make. They were 100% there to intimidate this guy into doing exactly what they wanted, and they got it.
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Apr 24, 2023 16:51
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Calls go unanswered, emails get spam foldered, and letters go in the trash. If someone isn't interested in talking to you, they have more options than you'd think!
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Apr 24, 2023 17:03
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WOTC is going to drone strike the next leaker because they had their cellphone turned off
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Apr 24, 2023 17:05
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Ominous Jazz posted:WOTC is going to drone strike the next leaker because they had their cellphone turned off it's been like 20 years since i followed MTG leak drama closely but based on how they reacted to leaks back then, i believe it
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Apr 24, 2023 17:09
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moths posted:Calls go unanswered, emails get spam foldered, and letters go in the trash. If someone isn't interested in talking to you, they have more options than you'd think! Yeah and they can refuse to answer the door, too. What does this have to do with discussing whether this was a polite attempt to send a corporate security firm for calm investigation purposes, or an obviously escalated intimidation tact?
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Apr 24, 2023 17:09
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I'm saying it's not as clear-cut as some posters seem to think. If they're working on a timeline, which a contracted investigation firm will be, they can't go back to WotC with "IDK he didn't call back" and a shrug. E: dude absolutely should have had a lawyer present or at least recorded everything though.
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Apr 24, 2023 17:15
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moths posted:E: dude absolutely should have had a lawyer present or at least recorded everything though. That's gonna be one of the threats they use. 'You can just give us all the product now and we'll walk away from this, or you can get lawyers involved and then we get lawyers involved and this is going to be so much worse for you.'
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Apr 24, 2023 17:39
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Toshimo posted:
Splicer fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Apr 24, 2023 |
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Apr 24, 2023 17:54
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It's too bad that laws don't work, lawyers are helpless, there's simply nothing to be done if you send a cease and desist and it's ignored, so the only option left is to start with private security and just skip all the other things. And of course helpless corporations in the face of youtubers is an undesirable situation for everyone. All those poor lawyers who spend all day sending C&Ds should be told that they never get results and it's pointless. Nobody opens certified mail! Process servers always fail. Why would a fan of wizards of the coast, whose youtube channel is all about magic the gathering, even answer email sent directly from a wizards of the coast corporate address, like lol. They'd never do that. Not worth even attempting. Dying on the hill of "wizards is just a normal corp stop being mad at them so much" is a really poor choice. We're TG nerds, we care about what the companies selling us game products do and how they behave, we're gonna get a little worked up about it, and that's actually OK and does not call for a devil's advocate to explain to everyone how it's not really a big deal and also the victim was asking for it.
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Apr 24, 2023 18:17
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moths posted:
politely asking the hired intimidation goons if they can wait half an hour for my lawyer to drive over
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Apr 24, 2023 18:34
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Leperflesh posted:Dying on the hill of "wizards is just a normal corp stop being mad at them so much" is a really poor choice. Lol, show me where literally anyone did this.
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Apr 24, 2023 18:53
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Tsilkani posted:The Pinkertons are currently the corporate risk management division of Securitas, which is one of the largest security firms out there. This is exactly who Hasbro/WotC would have on payroll to handle leaks they deemed sensitive. Yeah, it's sensational because it's the Pinkertons, but if it wasn't them, it'd be the corporate risk management division of some other security firm. Replace "Securitas" with "Lone Star" and this is literally a plot from Shadowrun.
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Apr 24, 2023 19:12
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Toshimo posted:Lol, show me where literally anyone did this. No. I made a post to calm the waters, specifically to not call out specific posters and get into arguments with them. Nobody's done anything worth a probation yet.
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Apr 24, 2023 19:19
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Leperflesh posted:Dying on the hill of "wizards is just a normal corp stop being mad at them so much" is a really poor choice. We're TG nerds, we care about what the companies selling us game products do and how they behave, we're gonna get a little worked up about it, and that's actually OK and does not call for a devil's advocate to explain to everyone how it's not really a big deal and also the victim was asking for it. No one is dying on this hill, just mostly lamenting the fact that "yeah this makes sense, gotta move smarter than that when operating in the real world" Like I tell my kid cousin he can't be out here moving stupid when it comes to interactions with the police. And will tell my kid the same. I'm not saying this because I think the cops are a good institution and them doing heinous poo poo is Good™, but like gotta be smarter than to put yourself in this very obvious position if you put even like 10 minutes of thought into it.
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Apr 24, 2023 19:20
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Dexo posted:No one is dying on this hill, just mostly lamenting the fact that "yeah this makes sense, gotta move smarter than that when operating in the real world" the guy who got the cards did nothing wrong. he bought and paid for a product. the company he bought it from sent him a product, and it was almost the one he paid for, but it had one extra word on the packaging (aftermath). i wouldn't be surprised if someone at the seller just grabbed the wrong package accidentally/didn't realize it was supposed to be something different. sure, it ruins wizards' pr treadmill for the aftermath miniset but that's it. he bought a physical product and received it. he's not morally or legally at fault. he didn't break street date.
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Apr 24, 2023 19:30
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You can do something that ends up being a bad idea, while not doing anything actually wrong.
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Apr 24, 2023 19:39
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And recognizing how something ends up working is not being happy with it working that way, nor endorsing it.
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Apr 24, 2023 21:08
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When your effort post has more vitriol against the nobody small guy than the mega corp hiring a loving PMC, it certainly reads that way.
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Apr 24, 2023 21:14
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I like to think of myself as a decently savvy person, and I don't know that I'd guess that the logical endpoint of 'I recorded a video of an unreleased product I got sent by accident' would be 'hired goons get sent to my house'. Video taken down? Sure. C&D sent? Yeah. Straight up PI legbreakers? Not so much. e: It's like if someone tells a story about a time someone got hit by a car while crossing at a red light and you go 'well should've still looked both ways, then'. Like you're not exactly *wrong*, but the guy that hit them is still the main rear end in a top hat, here. Doctor Zaius fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Apr 24, 2023 |
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Apr 24, 2023 21:39
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it's a very complicated situation because while the pinkertons are historical villains, responsible for countless crimes against the workers of the us and they were slave catchers and they were the bad guys in red dead redemption 2 and they did the first air bombing in the united states against striking miners, wizards of the coast makes a game that i like
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Apr 24, 2023 21:43
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Ominous Jazz posted:it's a very complicated situation because while the pinkertons are historical villains, responsible for countless crimes against the workers of the us and they were slave catchers and they were the bad guys in red dead redemption 2 and they did the first air bombing in the united states against striking miners, wizards of the coast makes a game that i like The aircraft dropping bombs at Blair Mountain were owned by sheriff Don Chafin, and the private strikebreakers involved was the Baldwin-Felts Detective Agency, not the Pinkertons. 
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Apr 24, 2023 23:52
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Ominous Jazz posted:it's a very complicated situation because while the pinkertons are historical villains, responsible for countless crimes against the workers of the us and they were slave catchers and they were the bad guys in red dead redemption 2 and they did the first air bombing in the united states against striking miners, wizards of the coast makes a game that i like Unless you know of some other instance of miners being aerially bombed, I believe reports indicate it was the Baldwin-Felts Detective Agency (rest in piss) at the Battle of Blair Mountain, not the Pinkertons. Just as a matter of maintaining an accurate list of actions by historical, and apparently still current, villains. http://expatalachians.com/biplanes-over-blair-calling-in-the-air-force-for-the-mine-wars Wizards/Hasbro throwing a lot of gutter balls recently! Unfortunately, I don't expect this to come anywhere near the heat level of the 30th Edition debacle. e: ^^^^ aaaaaah drat you beat me
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Apr 24, 2023 23:53
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Oh! I just assumed they were taken over by the Pinkertons at some point. Thank you!
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Apr 24, 2023 23:58
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Ominous Jazz posted:
Good news, you could get a job AND a new avatar! Leperflesh posted:It's too bad that laws don't work, lawyers are helpless, there's simply nothing to be done if you send a cease and desist and it's ignored, so the only option left is to start with private security and just skip all the other things. And of course helpless corporations in the face of youtubers is an undesirable situation for everyone. It could have been worse; WotC could have sent Mearls. I am starting to form the opinion that hiring someone away from Microsoft to become the new CEO might not have been Hasbro's best choice of how to handle WotC management, digital platform or no digital platform.
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Apr 25, 2023 00:08
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reading this thread I got an email alert that the pinkertons are hiring
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Confirmed: they did indeed send the Pinkertons to confiscate the 'stolen' cards. https://www.polygon.com/23695923/mtg-aftermath-pinkerton-raid-leaked-cards At this point I think the correct response is "Don't give WotC any money, ever." Play Arena for free, play with friends using proxies, but shitloads of penny rares and make a cube.
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Apr 25, 2023 01:54
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Gynovore posted:Confirmed: they did indeed send the Pinkertons to confiscate the 'stolen' cards. Possibly "file a robbery report/lawsuit", as well.
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Apr 25, 2023 01:55
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Goa Tse-tung posted:He claims he got a deal on older product and the distributor shipped him the new cards instead, and WotC treats him like he stole it. I assume there is a hard distributor date he broke that makes his story impossible for them. So straight up a distributor broke street date, and WotC sent the loving Pinkertons to shake down the end consumer, who should be filing a police report. This is a matter of contract law with the distributor, nothing to do with the end consumer who bought product in good faith.
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Apr 25, 2023 02:03
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Possibly "file a robbery report/lawsuit", as well. What I meant was, the general public should stop giving money to Wizards, now that it's absolutely 100% clear that they're shitheads who care about nothing but their 'brand'.
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Apr 25, 2023 02:13
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The article implies that he didn't buy them off a distributor, and instead he bought them off some guy. "An acquaintance" in this article and "a friend of his" in this Gizmodo article. An in-person makes much sense since they were ostensibly recovering the cards, and "please inventory and mail 22 boxes worth of cards and wrappers back to WotC." disposablewords posted:And recognizing how something ends up working is not being happy with it working that way, nor endorsing it. For real. I don't know if it's the associated frustrations or posting culture or what, but there is something really gross and dishonest inherent in pretending that explaining something equates to defending it. I assume that it's people anticipating loving Pinkerton defenders in the comments and making do with whatever looks close enough to vent.
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Apr 25, 2023 02:53
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Gynovore posted:At this point I think the correct response is "Don't give WotC any money, ever." Play Arena for free, play with friends using proxies, but shitloads of penny rares and make a cube. I've been here for a while, and while I'm too pessimistic to expect people to come to this conclusion, it would be nice.
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Apr 25, 2023 02:56
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moths posted:The article implies that he didn't buy them off a distributor, and instead he bought them off some guy. "An acquaintance" in this article and "a friend of his" in this Gizmodo article. If “some guy” is selling 22 boxes of unreleased MTG when not even into MTG, they’re probably some kind of retailer.
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Apr 25, 2023 03:11
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moths posted:The article implies that he didn't buy them off a distributor, and instead he bought them off some guy. "An acquaintance" in this article and "a friend of his" in this Gizmodo article. Again, if he bought the cards and the seller hosed up and sent them early, he would be entirely in his rights to tell WotC to go pound sand, and have the cops come around with a warrant if they think it was stolen property. Hence why they sent the loving thugs. Breaking a street date is not illegal, it's a matter of civil contract law between the distributor and WotC that an end consumer is not party to.
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Apr 25, 2023 03:18
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Liquid Communism posted:Again, if he bought the cards and the seller hosed up and sent them early, he would be entirely in his rights to tell WotC to go pound sand, and have the cops come around with a warrant if they think it was stolen property. I don't think anyone would dispute this. If it was sold, it wasn't stolen, even if the terms of sale don't line up with WotC's wishes. Collecting the wrappers sounds like they want the serial numbers to hang up that third party guy for an as-yet-unannounced production-line theft. I don't imagine Pinkerton thugs use the words "stolen" to mean "broke street date," and since this is the first time a leak's been slapped with actual goons they probably mean stolen. So WotC thinks they were stolen. That doesn't mean they were, but it explains involving private security and throwing around legal threats. LatwPIAT posted:If “some guy” is selling 22 boxes of unreleased MTG when not even into MTG, they’re probably some kind of retailer. What's the timeline like for this? Had the new set arrived at retailers when the video was filmed? Or distributors? Also how desirable was the older, similarly named set? Would buying 22 boxes of it be a normal thing? Because it sounds like he maybe recognized an opportunity to scoop a leak and took it. Which I also need to stress, isn't theft and doesn't make the goods stolen.
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Apr 25, 2023 04:13
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Buying 22 boxes of the new set (the one that has already released) for a guy running a pack opening channel is absolutely normal. WotC introduced a “Booster Fun” setup awhile back that juices these things with tons of FOMO chase cards/special treatments if you’re buying the most expensive “collector boosters.”
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Apr 25, 2023 04:24
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Yeah but the story is that he tried to buy 22 boxes of the old set and then oops accidently got the new one.
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Apr 25, 2023 04:26
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moths posted:Yeah but the story is that he tried to buy 22 boxes of the old set and then oops accidently got the new one. I made a mistake and fixed it. Buying 22 boxes of the “old set” (barely just released) is totally normal.
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Apr 25, 2023 04:27
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Ok that makes sense, thanks. I had the wrong impression that there was a set between the one he ordered and the one that's releasing soon.
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Apr 25, 2023 04:31
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moths posted:I don't think anyone would dispute this. If it was sold, it wasn't stolen, even if the terms of sale don't line up with WotC's wishes. I wouldn't expect the Pinkertons to know the difference, and even if they did their goal is to retrieve the product so lying to the guy is entirely in their remit so long as they don't get called on it in court. This is normal behavior for security contractors.
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Apr 25, 2023 04:48
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Goddamn. "WotC sics the loving Pinkertons on someone" is not a box I had on my 2023 bingo card.
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Apr 25, 2023 05:00
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