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CainFortea posted:We never saw like 80% of the rest of the crew. 
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Apr 25, 2023 00:31
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I don't think people get more conservative as they get older, I think that the people who would be desperate for immortality would be the kinds of people who dislike change, have a very specific idea of how they want to exist and the world to support it, the kind of mindset that wants to stop its own body from changing how it regenerates its own cells over time, and just the sheer loving hubris all lend themselves to regressive conservatism. bull3964 posted:As someone who lost a friend at 40 years old to cancer, I want to be clear. gently caress this viewpoint completely. Medical advances at least let him have another 18 months with us instead of dying in weeks. Not dying young of cancer at 40 is way different than a Murdoch type living to 100, increasing by magnitudes how much and how long he can't poison the world. Capitalism is the worst but it's also not the only way we can systematically oppress one another, evil didn't just start 400 years ago. I don't know if our destructive history is just a species specific ape thing or any another earthling with an overdeveloped brain would end up doing the same, or if any lifeform in the universe ends up doing the same nasty poo poo, but it's not just one bogeyman to overcome. We are a walking extinction event and even just among ourselves we have found reason time and time again and never stopped finding ways to hurt and kill and take advantage of one another. I also don't think it's just immortality but even in a hypothetical heaven scenario, perpetual existence seems like a hell so long as there is no way to cease existing whether at-will or by other force of nature/magic. If the desired goal is just for everyone to live happily ever after forever and ever then you might as well do an Evangelion primordial public pool deal.
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Apr 25, 2023 00:51
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Tunicate posted:Lol old folks staying in power happens in every system, gorby got supreme leadership of the ussr because the last 3 guys had died of old age in a 4 year span "Get and sustain power" requires a lot of OJT, so you're going to get the old people no matter what.
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Apr 25, 2023 01:45
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Khanstant posted:
So you are basically saying that even if we have the tech for use on younger people, you don't get to have medicine anymore after a certain age?
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Apr 25, 2023 02:32
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I'm not saying to enact any plan or suggesting any kind of Soylent Old. I'm saying the increase in longevity of life can mean decrease in quality or longevity of life for others. Not everyone is a good person and there is a very strong correlation between people who have too much on purpose, who would also be those most able to take advantage of any immortality tech, and who would use that extended lifespan to actively make life worse for others, to their own benefit or just impulsive whim. Another horrible thing about immortality will be even more egregious copyright law as the lifetime of the author approaches infinity.
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Apr 25, 2023 02:56
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"Things that happen already will continue to happen" isn't really all that compelling of an argument. I'm not really sure how we got on an immortality tangent anyways. The original argument was the statement that bringing someone back to life was somehow some huge taboo. That doesn't automatically track to immortality. Like, if we find a way to preserve someone's brain during an otherwise fatal procedure and then bring them back, that would be awesome and doesn't mean they aren't going to die of old age 30 years later. ACTUAL immortality likely isn't possible. What could be possible is people living to around 140 in good health until the end.
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Apr 25, 2023 03:12
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Put my brain in a robot body, just not one that's networked to all of the other brains in robot bodies because 1) I don't want to hear all your voices and 2) sometimes I have private thoughts that are private
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Apr 25, 2023 03:19
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Put me in a robot body that automatically tweets all my private thoughts it'll be funny
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Apr 25, 2023 03:22
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Immortality is impossible. Something will eventually get you. I imagine when people say immortality they mean more along the lines of an indefinite lifespan at a reasonably hearty body state, such as that you are not just sitting and watching birds shuffling off to have the birds killed for your stock portfolio, or whatnot. I think in a setting like Trek most of the economic problems seem like they would be muted, though it wouldn't shock me if Earth had a ton of old semi-immortal fucks because young people moved out, if only to not have to live under Grandpa's shadow so god drat much. bull3964 posted:I'm not really sure how we got on an immortality tangent anyways. The original argument was the statement that bringing someone back to life was somehow some huge taboo. That doesn't automatically track to immortality. Like, if we find a way to preserve someone's brain during an otherwise fatal procedure and then bring them back, that would be awesome and doesn't mean they aren't going to die of old age 30 years later.
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Apr 25, 2023 03:31
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Resurrection --> Immortality isn't that much of a tangent. In a soft sense resurrection is a form of immortality. The universe is so unfathomably young and large that nobody considers immortality to like, include the most of future history when matter is so cold and far apart it might as well be nothing. Whether or not you think resurrection is bad or awesome, I don't think it's at all unusual to consider it taboo, or at the very least something people have feared across history as much as they've lusted for it. I don't believe in souls or ghosts or an afterlife or any kind of existence outside of the brainjunk generated by our bodies to do earth stuff, but if that's a belief or factor at play then likewise seems like a thing as many people revile as they glorify. We get way more undead fiction than we do reverse raptures, but we do get a lot of Jesus riffs and modern copyright law can really encourage established IP to never permanently die. Taboo is often an emotional reaction, not a logical one. I can work backwards from my disgust at the concept to find rational or ethical arguments to support that gut reaction but at the end of the day I find it "unnatural" or wrong, something tempting but fortunately forbidden. Guess I'm just a hardliner for "overall the life cycle is pretty much fine as is." There's maybe one species that just seems to make things worse for everything that isn't anyone, but for personal reasons I probably have to stand by us. That said, the second they come out with phylacteries I'm liching it up, I wouldn't even be able to care that I never wanted to be resurrected or the horrible things I did to shave off enough soul to fit in the budget version. Plus I'd be too busy making traps for my tower of bones and hissing at the mailman.
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Apr 25, 2023 05:20
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It was morally wrong to undo Barclay's Protomorphosis Syndrome; lobster worf, spider barkley, and frog troi were independent beings that were killed for the sake of resurrecting the dead rest of the cast.
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Apr 25, 2023 05:26
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Lobster worf? I know weeb worf and pai mei word but what's lobwo?
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Apr 25, 2023 05:54
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Worf got really into Jordan Peterson after the Enterprise crashed and-
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Apr 25, 2023 05:57
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BonHair posted:Are there any serious (as in not explicitly comedy or for kids) sci-fi/fantasy that is not terribly written with world ending stakes? The real issue is that everyone is too focused on plot twists and effects and no one cares about characters and stories. The setting is less important, it's about what you do with it. Farscape definitely. Right up until the finale movie, it's less "galactic-threatening stakes" and more about how the crew's fighting for their lives because of what's going on around them. Also, Dark Matter I'd say.
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Apr 25, 2023 09:05
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John F Bennett posted:They should make Starfleet Academy in the style of an 80's summer camp/highschool movie but without the sexual harassment stuff. The season 1 finale should just be a remake of the movie Toy Soldiers only with phasers
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Apr 25, 2023 09:24
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V-Men posted:Farscape definitely. Right up until the finale movie, it's less "galactic-threatening stakes" and more about how the crew's fighting for their lives because of what's going on around them. Also, Dark Matter I'd say. Yeah, I meant to add current era shows, most of TNG also fits, along with X Files and a bunch of other "classic" shows.
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Apr 25, 2023 12:30
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Nessus posted:Immortality is impossible. Something will eventually get you. I imagine when people say immortality they mean more along the lines of an indefinite lifespan at a reasonably hearty body state, such as that you are not just sitting and watching birds shuffling off to have the birds killed for your stock portfolio, or whatnot. Eh. If we're talking pie in the sky future technology there is no reason why you can't also include transhumanism. People can download their thoughts and keep them up to date so if some accident befalls you they can just grow a clone and then put your brain scan into the clone. That is also a method of immortality. You grow up, grow old, die, reboot.
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Apr 25, 2023 14:58
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But that would just be a copy of you. Take for example the simple act of transporting...
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Apr 25, 2023 15:15
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Consciousness is an undefinable illusion, we all die every night and are reborn every morning. There is no continuity of self within our own bodies today. Any other view is just silly human emotional fragility 
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Apr 25, 2023 15:21
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zoux posted:But that would just be a copy of you. Take for example the simple act of transporting... Murdering Tuvix via transporter to get Tuvok and Kneelix back is not a moral problem as everyone who uses the transporter dies and is replaced by a duplicate anyways 
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Apr 25, 2023 15:24
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Tighclops posted:Worf got really into Jordan Peterson after the Enterprise crashed and- Worf would definitely find a man who can't clean his own room, but tells other to do so, very dishonorable.
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Apr 25, 2023 15:28
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In time I feel something would get you. If you became somehow profuse enough to avoid explosions, meteors, bit rot and renegade synthoids you would eventually change so much ch that you had been reborn. And in the end there is entropy. Unless you want to merge with Multivac. You could greatly extend life of course.
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Apr 25, 2023 15:32
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Nessus posted:In time I feel something would get you. If you became somehow profuse enough to avoid explosions, meteors, bit rot and renegade synthoids you would eventually change so much ch that you had been reborn. And in the end there is entropy. Unless you want to merge with Multivac. Cyborg of Theseus?
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Apr 25, 2023 15:33
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Nessus posted:In time I feel something would get you. If you became somehow profuse enough to avoid explosions, meteors, bit rot and renegade synthoids you would eventually change so much ch that you had been reborn. And in the end there is entropy. Unless you want to merge with Multivac. In House of Suns by Alastair Reynolds (who writes some of the best transhumanism stuff around), there's an entity that transferred himself into a robot body, but that wasn't safe enough, so he distributed his consciousness across several robots, and kept increasing the number of robots, making them smaller and smaller and distributed farther and farther apart until they had completely colonized the oort cloud, and then a volume of space several LY across. It thought extremely slowly, but it was basically undestroyable. I would say that the entity was radically transformed zoux fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Apr 25, 2023 |
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Apr 25, 2023 15:36
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CainFortea posted:Eh. If we're talking pie in the sky future technology there is no reason why you can't also include transhumanism. People can download their thoughts and keep them up to date so if some accident befalls you they can just grow a clone and then put your brain scan into the clone. Its such a shame that the Altered Carbon ended up being such a mess.
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Apr 25, 2023 15:39
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zoux posted:In House of Suns by Alastair Reynolds (who writes some of the best transhumanism stuff around), there's an entity that transferred himself into a robot body, but that wasn't safe enough, so he distributed his consciousness across several robots, and kept increasing the number of robots, making them smaller and smaller and distributed farther and farther apart until they had completely colonized the oort cloud, and then a volume of space several LY across. It thought extremely slowly, but it was basically undestroyable.
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Apr 25, 2023 16:38
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I'd actually recommend House of Suns as one of the best books involving concepts of deep time - and the difference between clinically immortal beings constantly undergoing hibernation and time dilation and "normal" beings who live out a single limited lifespan.
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Apr 25, 2023 17:12
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feedmyleg posted:Consciousness is an undefinable illusion, we all die every night and are reborn every morning. There is no continuity of self within our own bodies today. Any other view is just silly human emotional fragility Some of you guys have some really silly ideas. I'm not dying when I have a cozy sleep and have a weird dream about going for a cinematic treasure hunt across siberia and then wake up rested and entertained by the experience, what an odd way of looking at a fundamental part of the human experience
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Apr 25, 2023 18:03
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You die every time you fall asleep I die a little every time I wake up We are not the same
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Apr 25, 2023 18:08
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Eighties ZomCom posted:Murdering Tuvix via transporter to get Tuvok and Kneelix back is not a moral problem as everyone who uses the transporter dies and is replaced by a duplicate anyways zoux posted:But that would just be a copy of you. Take for example the simple act of transporting... No, because you are never destroyed. Just your subatomic particles are pulled apart! But they definitely keep existing. Nessus posted:you would eventually change so much ch that you had been reborn. And in the end there is entropy. Unless you want to merge with Multivac. By this metric you die every single moment of your existence since you have now changed from the you a moment ago. Also merging with multivac is entirely legit and still continuity. Let there be light!
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Apr 25, 2023 18:24
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Well yeah if you want to get technical you ARE reborn every instant. That’s just not pragmatically useful. Self and permanence are ultimately illusory. But the illusions serve many needs.
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Apr 25, 2023 18:55
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Nessus posted:Well yeah if you want to get technical you ARE reborn every instant. That’s just not pragmatically useful. yea, that's kinda what i'm saying. The argument that "you will die anyway because you stop being who you are" is silly because that's literally what existing in time means. I'm already a wildly different person than what I was 10 years ago. I remember making decisions that seem entirely insane to me 15 years ago. Like, I know they happened and I know I decided on them but I can not understand why I did them.
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Apr 25, 2023 18:58
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CainFortea posted:yea, that's kinda what i'm saying. The argument that "you will die anyway because you stop being who you are" is silly because that's literally what existing in time means. I'm already a wildly different person than what I was 10 years ago. I remember making decisions that seem entirely insane to me 15 years ago. Like, I know they happened and I know I decided on them but I can not understand why I did them. I have sympathy for the hierarchy turnover argument. It’s just such a second order complication it’s hard to think about. I distinguish it from the property stuff because the hierarchy issue would remain even if you resolved the property issues, which are still an issue without extensive life extension.
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Apr 25, 2023 19:03
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https://twitter.com/swolecialism/status/1650958174168444933 Hmmm are there bad Star Trek jackets? the SNW jackets kick rear end and even the nuTrek ones are great. Why are we so behind on jacket technology in the 21st century  I mean, c'mon. zoux fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Apr 25, 2023 |
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Apr 25, 2023 21:26
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90 percent of looking good in a jacket is being overall good looking.
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Apr 25, 2023 21:50
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Kelley and Doohan look great
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Apr 25, 2023 21:51
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St_Ides posted:90 percent of looking good in a jacket is being overall good looking. Plus dedicated tailors, makeup, someone to dab away your sweat, lighting to make sure you look good, and be surrounded by people matching you. Most sci-fi jackets in real life would just look like weird motorcycle jackets, plus we need to start doing global cooling if we want to usher in a jacket era.
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Apr 25, 2023 22:33
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I agree but I still don’t like Picard’s jacket.
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Apr 25, 2023 22:41
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zoux posted:Hmmm are there bad Star Trek jackets? the SNW jackets kick rear end and even the nuTrek ones are great. Why are we so behind on jacket technology in the 21st century 
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Apr 25, 2023 23:00
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zoux was asking if there were bad jackets.
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Apr 25, 2023 23:00
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