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Ulf posted:If a manufacturer were to create an RR version of a 50 though, which make would it be? I'm pretty sure KTM make a 50
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Apr 23, 2023 15:44
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What was that old 50cc Yamaha that had a street version? YZFR50? From the 90s. It was a two-stroke.
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Apr 23, 2023 16:12
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https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_TZR_50
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Apr 23, 2023 16:35
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Probably the YSR50, one of the coolest bikes ever made and I will hear no arguments against this https://iconicmotorbikeauctions.com/auction/1988-yamaha-ysr50/ Here’s an idea of scale, it’s tiny 
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Apr 23, 2023 16:56
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That's fantastic
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Apr 23, 2023 17:23
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Ulf posted:If a manufacturer were to create an RR version of a 50 though, which make would it be? There's a 50cc racing class so this does in fact exist. E.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_NSR50 
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Apr 23, 2023 17:45
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That exhaust! Be still my heart. Thanks for answering the question in the thread title for me, I didn’t even know I was ready for a new bike.
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Apr 23, 2023 19:25
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For those who have dedicated track bikes (ones which are fully converted over and no longer street legal), is it worth it? Or is having a bike that is only ridden maybe 12 times per year sort of a pain in the rear end? I'm excluding race bikes from the question since those are a known quantity and non optional for racing, whereas you can take a street bike to track day, and it's basically fine. Part of me wants to get a track bike (or build one) that isn't too expensive so I'm not sad if I bin it (and can repair it somewhat cheaply), but another part of me worries it will just be a headache because of the large intervals between running. A street bike doesn't sit nearly as much, even if you're a weekend warrior (me), and you can also take it on a shakedown a couple days before if you need to. I have a deposit on a ZX-4RR, but some people are in front of me, and they claimed they don't know how many they're getting (they have 5 dealerships, so maybe true). On one hand it seems perfect, but on the other it's also fairly expensive, and in terms of performance, you could probably build a better SV650 for half the price (3-4k for the bike, another 2-3k on suspension and brakes? Or maybe I can find someone else's track bike for even less!). I have a parking space for my current bike, and I imagine the landlord will let me park two bikes there (it's a space meant for a car). I can probably skip insurance, and registration is cheap. I guess another nice thing is you're not juggling opposing goals with one bike on street vs track performance. I currently only have 3 track days planned for the year; 2 are private days and a little pricey, so maybe only gonna do 3 or 4 this year. It just feels a little excessive to me to have a bike that gets ridden so little, so kind of wondering what others experiences are.
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Apr 23, 2023 19:52
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Toe Rag posted:For those who have dedicated track bikes (ones which are fully converted over and no longer street legal), is it worth it? Or is having a bike that is only ridden maybe 12 times per year sort of a pain in the rear end? I'm excluding race bikes from the question since those are a known quantity and non optional for racing, whereas you can take a street bike to track day, and it's basically fine. I'm fairly uninformed but offhand: something that you have to trailer around and perform maintenance and upkeep on to use for only four days per year doesn't seem like a good value proposition unless you go into your track days planning to push so hard you expect to crash it every time and don't want to risk your street bike. Also check the price of the per diem insurance you're looking at getting for your track days.
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Apr 23, 2023 20:24
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I need a recommendation for reliable, single cylinder mc/Enduro/maybe dual sport bikes 250-450cc. I've been riding this 22 year old KTM for a few years now. Kids got newer bikes that never need anything beyond routine maintenance, but this stupid KTM sure makes up for it. Old rear end suspension components, fork seals that never stop leaking, power valves that work 2 months out of the year. I'm def getting rid of that bike. I don't want to put up too much money or finance a large amount, so I'm looking at used bikes. As I'm a short dude with a 28 inch inseam, most bigger bikes like that will gently caress me over. As long as there is an estart, that's cool - but I'd still prefer less than the Yamaha standard 39 inch seat height or whatever I'm even considering selling the Monkey to make it happen. I don't get too many trips riding with the kids and it really blows when the bike does KTM things during one of them
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Apr 23, 2023 21:35
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Toe Rag posted:For those who have dedicated track bikes (ones which are fully converted over and no longer street legal), is it worth it? Or is having a bike that is only ridden maybe 12 times per year sort of a pain in the rear end? Kind of in this the same boat, planning 3-4 track days this year. I am going to address it for myself next year and continue on the bike I am on, I only have done two track days so far. My options I feel are Lost title SV650\facebook has track motorcycle bikes with upgraded suspension CBR600RR Supermoto My friend converted his CBR1000RR into a track only bike - it was costing him a lot to run on the streets, new tires yearly, not great on gas, high insurance costs I want something kind of nimble in turns. I settled on something like a Husq 701 SMC\GasGas\KTM 690 SMC, that will primarily be used on the track, but I can take it out on the road still and keep it street legal. Some of the smaller sumos have aggressive maint intervals and wouldn't be that great to run on the road often day to day. They put out a lot of power for their size. I feel like the sumo will be more fun than a farkled track SV650, and the fairings are...robust...and plentiful..if I do drop it. SV650s people run all taped up, or fiberglass fairings locally. I don't know what you are looking at for performance. The Sumo bikes seem fun on track and don't need to be reliable as a daily driver, but are usable on the roads. I THINK I am settled on that for myself, plan on buying next year. It seems like a good mix of fun. So, no to dedicated track bike, but I absolutely want something fun on the track and primarily used there. And honestly...unless you are expert level...why do you need like slicks with tire warmers that are not street legal, the primary difference between a road legal bike or not? They sell light kits that like remove if you don't like taping up the bike. If you are really advanced maybe it makes sense. It doesn't make sense for me, I am sure you are a more advanced rider, are you expert? SSH IT ZOMBIE fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Apr 23, 2023 |
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Apr 23, 2023 22:14
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I would not want a dedicated track bike and no garage to keep it in, but also hell yeah get a zx4rr cause you'll save money on tires
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Apr 23, 2023 23:30
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Midjack posted:I'm fairly uninformed but offhand: something that you have to trailer around and perform maintenance and upkeep on to use for only four days per year doesn't seem like a good value proposition unless you go into your track days planning to push so hard you expect to crash it every time and don't want to risk your street bike. Also check the price of the per diem insurance you're looking at getting for your track days. Haha yeah crashing is definitely not part of the plan, but it is a possibility. And for me personally, I feel I am far more likely to crash at the track than on the street. I’ll have to look into track day insurance. Probably the better idea. SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:And honestly...unless you are expert level...why do you need like slicks with tire warmers that are not street legal, the primary difference between a road legal bike or not? It’s not the tires so much as everything else. Basically stripping out everything “unnecessary” to lose as much weight as possible. Carbureted race bikes will even go so far as to remove the whole charging system. There’s also the alluded problem where making a bike better for track often makes it worse for street and vice versa. I’m definitely not an expert rider who needs slicks. Tbh I think unless you’re racing slicks are kind of a waste of money. I’ve never ridden slicks, however, so maybe it’s worth it in terms of feel and confidence. I guess it’s up to you. My bike has even less power than yours, although it weighs quite a bit less. I think somewhere between 60 and 80 HP is a good target. Enough power to not get stuck behind slow people (my biggest problem), but not so much you can fool yourself. I’ve ridden a couple 100hp bikes on track I so know I’m not going to immediately put it in the wall. GriszledMelkaba posted:I would not want a dedicated track bike and no garage to keep it in, but also hell yeah get a zx4rr cause you'll save money on tires  I’ll have to see what pans out with my deposit and if I can even get one this year. I actually made it with a dealer in LA because all the ones in the Bay Area were either spoken for or the dealer didn’t want to discuss numbers until they had the VINs for some reason. LA is the bigger market so hopefully they have more allocations. My coworker just got his license and wants to buy my CB300R once he has the money, so I guess if/when that happens I’ll have to figure something out.
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Apr 24, 2023 00:49
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Toe Rag posted:It’s not the tires so much as everything else. Basically stripping out everything “unnecessary” to lose as much weight as possible. Carbureted race bikes will even go so far as to remove the whole charging system. There’s also the alluded problem where making a bike better for track often makes it worse for street and vice versa. I’m definitely not an expert rider who needs slicks. Tbh I think unless you’re racing slicks are kind of a waste of money. I’ve never ridden slicks, however, so maybe it’s worth it in terms of feel and confidence. I guess it’s up to you. I think this is a trap weekend warriors fall into. Pulling grams off a bike isn't how to go faster at novice or intermediate levels I don't think. Once lap times are consistent...and you want to get into racing...AMA has different classes of racing, twins, literbikes, stock etc. THEN start worrying about it. Disabling a bike for the street to feel like a pro...a lot of people get stuck there I think. Yeah, sticky tires lose street longevity or might not have as much wet traction. But street riding is also so much easier than track. Nothing matters unless you are logging thousands of miles. Stiffer suspension would suck for road trips but it's fine for starbucks runs. I agree it is worth having a second bike and _optimizing_ it for track - stiffer suspension, specific tires. Pulling off the road entitely... doesn't sound fun unless you are well off financially or have other reasons to do so! A ZX4RR would be fun. It might not be a bike you'd wanna use as a commuter but why rip all the lights off and never ride it? I'd feel weird also not regularly feeling the bike I use at the track - like riding it would feel foreign on track days. I am saying what I feel, if any of it applies to you, like not being on a bike regularly and maybe track performance suffering over unfamiliarity. SSH IT ZOMBIE fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Apr 24, 2023 |
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Apr 24, 2023 01:10
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SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:I think this is a trap weekend warriors fall into. Pulling grams off a bike isn't how to go faster at novice or intermediate levels I don't think. You can take a lot of weight out of a bike from what I’ve seen. Like 40-50lbs without going completely crazy, not 5lbs from a slip on exhaust and grams from expensive bolts. The Ninja 400 race class minimum weight is 301lbs, compared with stock weight of 362lbs, FYR. SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:A ZX4RR would be fun. It might not be a bike you'd wanna use as a commuter but why rip all the lights off and never ride it? If I get a ZX-4RR I wouldn’t mess with it too much. SVs are cheap though. But yeah not being able to ride the bike besides at track is another concern. I think whatever I get I’ll just let it progress naturally rather than pursuing a predetermined plan.
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Apr 24, 2023 01:24
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TotalLossBrain posted:I need a recommendation for reliable, single cylinder mc/Enduro/maybe dual sport bikes 250-450cc. If standard dual-sport seat heights are just too high, and you're OK with the extra weight and an ancient 5-speed 250, try to find a Yamaha XT250. (They're unchanged since getting reintroduced in 2008)
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Apr 24, 2023 02:28
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TotalLossBrain posted:I need a recommendation for reliable, single cylinder mc/Enduro/maybe dual sport bikes 250-450cc. I have the XT250 mentioned above and love it. Kawasaki and Honda both sell low seat versions of their dual sports, I haven't tried either so I can't recommend them, but I'm sure they are fine. You aren't gonna find one used or cheap because they are both reasonably new offerings. The almighty Dr650 has a stock seat height of like 33.5 in. So that might be something to consider as well.
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Apr 24, 2023 08:39
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Hmmm now I'm looking at leftover 2022 KX250 bikes. 226 lbs dry and 42 HP? at 14k rpm lol While I keep looking at dual sports, I'm not sure it's the right fit tbh. I ride off road with my kids so I'll have to trailer the bikes in any event. 6 months out of every year it will need to have paddle tires. I don't think I want to be encumbered by dual sport compromises in the off road environment, either. Are there any of the current crop of 250-350cc 4T dirt bikes any better than the next? I've looked at Kawi KX250 and a 2019 Husky FC350. But there's that KTM again
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Apr 24, 2023 16:11
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TotalLossBrain posted:Hmmm now I'm looking at leftover 2022 KX250 bikes. Honda CRF300 seems very well regarded other than the rear suspension being soft.
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Apr 24, 2023 16:26
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TotalLossBrain posted:Hmmm now I'm looking at leftover 2022 KX250 bikes. I wouldn't want to run paddles on a dual sport unless it's like one of the Beta ones that's more of a plated dirt bike than a dual sport. Speaking of, Beta sells a pretty nice lowering kit for their bikes...
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Apr 24, 2023 16:27
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TotalLossBrain posted:I need a recommendation for reliable, single cylinder mc/Enduro/maybe dual sport bikes 250-450cc. BabelFish posted:If standard dual-sport seat heights are just too high, and you're OK with the extra weight and an ancient 5-speed 250, try to find a Yamaha XT250. (They're unchanged since getting reintroduced in 2008) Beta is the lowest (and has a factory lowering option) fwiw of the trail bikes. TotalLossBrain posted:Hmmm now I'm looking at leftover 2022 KX250 bikes. What kind of riding are you doing with your kids? Trails? Dunes? ATV park? Sounds like dunes with the paddle tires for 6 months? Do you need your dirt bike to be street legal? Do you actually care about 4t vs 2t? Budget? WR250F KTM/Husky 350 (not the first two years but otherwise any of the years with later being better) God's own chariot, the TW200 beta 390 - I loved the motor on mine so much. I wouldn't buy an MX bike if you're not riding MX because it's a pain in the rear end to make it work for not MX and used those are bikes that I think are more likely to be absolutely wrung out.
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Apr 24, 2023 17:50
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We ride dunes and desert trails for half the year and forest trails the other half. It doesn't need to be street legal and would likely be better if it weren't. I have a KLX300R that one of my kids rides. I'd like my new bike to be lighter (sub 250lbs) and have a bit more power than the 300R. The long maintenance intervals on that bike are nice but I'm willing to do more frequent intervals for the higher string, high CR engines. Powerful enough for effortless dune climbing and power wheelies, yet nimble enough for easy single track. Re: TW200. I'm actually looking for one to replace my other kids KLX140. There's a dealer near me selling new TW bikes for $6999. MSRP is $4850 or so
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Apr 24, 2023 18:11
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TotalLossBrain posted:We ride dunes and desert trails for half the year and forest trails the other half. It doesn't need to be street legal and would likely be better if it weren't. orange/white/red 350/390 is my two cents. WR250F certainly hits the requirements too, though it's got less power which I'd want for dunes and wheelies. Or else a 250/300 2t. e: this guy has a 350 he loves. He had another and took it apart at I forget how many hours - 100+, as I recall, and the cylinder looked new so I wouldn't be too worried about the longevity there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w63woz0etKI builds character fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Apr 24, 2023 |
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Apr 24, 2023 20:04
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I would worry about the fuel pump, they seem to always drop dead on the 350
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Apr 24, 2023 20:26
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Slavvy posted:I would worry about the fuel pump, they seem to always drop dead on the 350 I've heard that but never seen it but not like I'm seeing a statistically significant number. When I had a 450 I thought about buying one of these (450 version) but never did it and then sold the bike. https://www.amazon.com/HFP-389-UPR-Replacement-78107088100-78107088300-78107088000/dp/B06XS8KTX6?th=1
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Apr 25, 2023 02:21
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I found a place with a bunch of leftover 2022 KX250 bikes and got one of them for $2400 off MSRP. I'll be taking it to the Florence Dunes this weekend
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Apr 25, 2023 04:49
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Because I'm a colossal dumbass and didn't read the owners manual like I should have, I didn't realize that this fuel injected bike still has a choke knob. This seems weird? The super light lithium battery that comes stock on this bike does not support a lot of cranking. I fouled the plug with all this and before I realized that, I had went through another full battery charge. So I had to pull some plastics and the tank to remove the plug and clean it up a bit. Bike fired right up after that without problems. I'm already missing my kick start oh God Edit: also I decided to just throw the old KTM on Facebook marketplace as is for a low price. Getting plenty of interest, may be gone soon. The dealership pretty much just laughed at the bike lol. Rant: I hate dealerships and the stupid poo poo they try to pull. The outrageous destination and assembly fees are bad enough. But then the finance guy plops down the balance sheet in front of me and the "sale" price is $1k over what they advertised. I point this out, and so does the sales guy helping me. Finance guy insists we're probably wrong. I shoved their own website in his face and he disappeared into the back office mumbling. Could have been an honest mistake, sure. It was a good discount but gently caress dealership hassles. I'm down to picking the least terrible one around me. TotalLossBrain fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Apr 25, 2023 |
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Apr 25, 2023 18:25
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Wait does the kx250 somehow not have a kick start? Lol if so The manual 'choke' is because it's difficult (costly) to put an idle control system on a bike with no way of having an ignition on/off state, because the bike is effectively 'on' all the time and it would draw power continually without some tricks. So they give you a manual one. They may also just be cheapskates, the hornet 900 for example has the same system even though it doesn't strictly need to.
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Apr 25, 2023 18:53
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correct, no kick start on this. Kawasaki have replaced that with a super-lightweight estart system entirely. The manual also warns that because of peculiarities with the lithium system, you can't push-start the bike. Which uh huge if true. I guess I'll carry a mini boost pack around with me or a spare Lithium battery? I shouldn't complain too much, I've bought a race course machine for casual riding around.
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Apr 25, 2023 19:19
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TotalLossBrain posted:Because I'm a colossal dumbass and didn't read the owners manual like I should have, I didn't realize that this fuel injected bike still has a choke knob. This seems weird? fwiw, I would probably get a better battery. You can crank a *lot* on an appropriately sized earthx. They're expensive but have a full warranty for the entire warranty period which is great and IMO well worth it. But it's not my money. Slavvy posted:Wait does the kx250 somehow not have a kick start? Lol if so All the dirt bikes are going away from kickstarters. Presumably because they are an easy way to lose 2-3lbs. And yeah, on the KTMs at least, the choke just ups the idle by a few hundred rpm and then automatically turns off the first time you throttle on and then off. You don't need to use the choke if it's hot out but below like 60 it can be helpful (also on KTM not kawi so idk about the kx250).
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Apr 25, 2023 19:21
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Slavvy posted:They may also just be cheapskates, the hornet 900 for example has the same system even though it doesn't strictly need to. FWIW I've never had to use mine, even on pretty cold mornings. Maybe in sub zero temps it'd be needed I guess.
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Apr 25, 2023 19:38
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I never understood how push starting an efi bike even works. Like there's enough power for the fuel pump and injectors and computer but not the starter? Seems sus. Carbs fuel is sucked with vacuum, spark off the cdi\stator...makes sense that it doesn't need bat. Lithium shuts off when under voltage specs, won't allow power draw. There's a also like 5v smart coils with built in igniters which I imagine need stable enough power to function. If bump starting still works today I'm surprised if it will forever as the ECUs do more. SSH IT ZOMBIE fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Apr 25, 2023 |
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Apr 25, 2023 19:43
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A starter motor draws tens to hundreds of ampere. A fuel pump and ECU a handful of amps. If the battery is weak, the internal resistance creates a drop in voltage. This drop is bigger when using the starter motor, than when using only the fuel pump and ECU. So you might have just enough power to run the ECU and pump, but the second you turn on the starter motor, the voltage drops to practically zero. When you push start, the voltage will remain high enough. Many vehicles (including carbureted ones) cannot be started when the battery is fully drained. The alternator in cars needs a voltage on the field winding in order for it to start generating power for the spark and such.
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Apr 25, 2023 19:51
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LimaBiker posted:A starter motor draws tens to hundreds of ampere. Very, very few bikes have an energized alternator system, most just have permanent magnet stators so the motor turning is enough to get everything moving even with no battery at all. Most dirt bikes don't have a battery at all and just run an AC ignition and lighting system, even efi dirt bikes having a battery is a relatively recent development. TotalLossBrain posted:correct, no kick start on this. Kawasaki have replaced that with a super-lightweight estart system entirely. That's....questionable? I can't really figure out why that would be the case builds character posted:All the dirt bikes are going away from kickstarters. Presumably because they are an easy way to lose 2-3lbs. I don't believe this is the case because a kickstart is just a lever made of alloy and a gear, a battery and starter weigh more and take up more space. I would wager it's because they've been made light enough that the convenience of being able to button restart in the middle of a race after you've crashed is greater than the disadvantage of the extra weight. I remember that Chad Reed a couple of years ago was one of the first to run an electric start for this reason despite the weight penalty.
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Apr 25, 2023 20:05
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A lot of early EFI bikes had manual chokes because a whole lot of early motorcycle EFI was literally just carbs without the jets and with injectors in their place, so something had to be done about cold start scenarios
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Apr 25, 2023 20:08
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Slavvy posted:Very, very few bikes have an energized alternator system, most just have permanent magnet stators so the motor turning is enough to get everything moving even with no battery at all. Most dirt bikes don't have a battery at all and just run an AC ignition and lighting system, even efi dirt bikes having a battery is a relatively recent development. Oh, right. Everyone (not everyone but mostly everyone) has moved to electric starters. Once that's the case, taking away the kickstarter loses you weight. But yeah, kickstarter is lighter vs. electric.
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Apr 25, 2023 20:21
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Put a deposit down on a Triumph Scrambler 1200 XC, another week until I can get over to the dealership to check it out. Keeping the 2015 Striple as it has been my absolute favorite bike out of the other three I've owned, hoping Triumph doesn't let me down.
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Apr 26, 2023 01:28
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Welp, the dealer in LA says the ZX-4RR is mine if I want it.  However, they have a 3K USD markup, making the out-the-door price just slightly over $16k  That's ridiculous. I can stomach paying MSRP but can't do markups, especially on a bike that's a little on the pricey side already, imo anyway. Plus it's in LA so that's another ~$500 either flying down there and riding bike or having it shipped. The coastal road is closed at the moment, too, so I'd invariably end up on the freeway for a nearly 200 mile stretch ... probably not the best idea for a new bike. That said, this SV650 is on craigslist. Not sure how I feel about the bars, but otherwise looks pretty good. I just got $3800 back for my tax return, so I believe that means this is a free bike? I sent the perennial "is this still available" message.
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Apr 29, 2023 04:40
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16k is way too much for that bike. SV and go nuts with gixxer front end and stuff.
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Apr 29, 2023 08:26
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As much as I love the idea of the ZX-4RR, that is a hard pass at that price. Get the SV.
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Apr 29, 2023 15:17
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