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Clarste posted:And yet, it is being marketed to and written for people who know nothing of Honkai Impact. Can HI fans enjoy it on a deeper level? Possibly! That doesn't mean it matters. All of the games are marketed that way, but also incorporate elements of past games that usually end up being relevant to the plot in some sort of way. Hell, Honkai Impact 3 is based off of a prior game whose overall nature of it's plot has literally has changed over time due to sequel games from a grimdark story that was unrelentingly bleak to a "what if this was the grimdark timeline where everything sucked and everyone suffered?". Eimi posted:Tbh that's just what liking lore in Mihoyo games does. Honkai doesn't even the most insane conspiracy boards compared to Genshin which is all about gnosticism and a shitload of references to ancient philosophy and stuff like color theory. This is also true. You have not even seen past the tip of the iceberg if you think this is bad compared to Genshin. 
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Apr 30, 2023 15:52
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And all that stuff in Genshin doesn't matter either, what do you know.
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Apr 30, 2023 15:54
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Archonex posted:My dude, the selling point of the plot of the game literally references the overall myth arc of the franchise since early on in Honkai Impact 3's development if it helps ive played none of the other games, have been having a good time in star rail and its story, and do not care enough about possible lore connections im missing out on to read those posts and i got no hint from the couple trailers i watched of, "wow we're making this for the multiverse heads"
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Apr 30, 2023 15:56
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For the record, when I say it "doesn't matter" what I mean is that the plot and characters don't rely on these connections to make sense. I can understand who Seele and Bronya are in this game, and why they do what they do, without knowing a single thing about them from other games. In fact, knowing about alternate reality(?) versions of these characters that don't show up here could arguably hinder my understanding of these two in particular.
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Apr 30, 2023 15:58
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Erg posted:if it helps ive played none of the other games, have been having a good time in star rail and its story, and do not care enough about possible lore connections im missing out on to read those posts Yeah, like we've said, they're marketed so anyone can get into it. But at the same time Star Rail itself has some huge implications for returning characters from Honkai 3rd. Heck, at least several are directly from it, and it's reasonable to assume that most of the other AU characters are gonna return for it at some point since that was supposedly where they all went to. There's something for everyone there. Which makes it all the more obnoxious when someone complains about lengthy text in a fairly lore heavy series when someone tries to point out the references. Like yeah, we get it, you just want to enjoy this one game. There are other people who are interested in whatever crazy lore they've come up with. Other people with other interests exist, and it's not too hard to just scroll past it if it's such a problem Clarste posted:For the record, when I say it "doesn't matter" what I mean is that the plot and characters don't rely on these connections to make sense. I can understand who Seele and Bronya are in this game, and why they do what they do, without knowing a single thing about them from other games. In fact, knowing about alternate reality(?) versions of these characters that don't show up here could arguably hinder my understanding of these two in particular. Clarste, you literally referred to people lore posting as broke brained paranoid screeds on conspiracy forums. If that doesn't come off as passively aggressively trying to get people to shut up about it then what did you mean exactly? Archonex fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Apr 30, 2023 |
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Apr 30, 2023 15:58
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Good lord if you aren't interested just don't read it? I'm kind of interested but not enough to play through a game I'm constantly told has insane powercreep problems to the point where the guides I can find just straight up tell you which characters to try and get.
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Apr 30, 2023 16:01
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The extra enjoyment comes from Honkai players catching the connections. You are having fun because you are one of those people. The connections do not add fun for other people who have no idea what you're rambling about and find your insistence that these matter quite annoying. I hope this helps.
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Apr 30, 2023 16:01
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Infinity Gaia posted:Fun fact, you start needing two teams at the 10th stage. Gepard's full party shield probably makes up for the healing. But without him, you'd just have March's single-target shields, and you'll end up inevitably taking damage you can't heal from. Plus March's require skill points, which hurts your DPS. I feel like one advantage to this game being turn-based is that they can make more non-damage abilities useful. In Genshin, healing/shields are usually a luxury (especially since you can heal with food in everything other than Abyss). Though I guess Genshin has movement-based abilities that can't be reproduced here. My Phys Trailblazer is actually one of my highest damage-dealers currently, mainly because one of the quests (or area currency?) gave a full set of Phys damage relics (so he's the only one benefiting from that). Having 5 Eidolons (I think that's what they're called) for him also helps.
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Apr 30, 2023 16:02
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In my experience every team in Genshin needs a healer/shielder it's just that most of them have other benefits too so it doesn't hurt.
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Apr 30, 2023 16:04
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What is "Break Effect" Is there a difference in loot between running a domain with 6 waves x 3 times (=180 stamina) vs being a crazy person and running 1 wave x 18 times (=180 stamina)?
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Apr 30, 2023 16:04
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genshin shields are good, healers are kinda eh
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Apr 30, 2023 16:04
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Yeah like it's hard to say Honkai Impact doesn't matter when Welt a main cast member, is the same Welt from Honkai Impact who traveled to this universe. Alongside a potential major villain, the Void Archives. Silver Wolf is very likely just Bronie/Haxxor Bunny from the Captainverse who last time we saw her had her own universe traveling powers. Imaginary and Quanta are powers here and their relation to the Imaginary Tree and Sea of Quanta is still important. I'm sure they will introduce those for new players, but they are too important of concepts to just not bring up. Doubly so when first planet spoilers Cocolia turns into a form that looks exactly like the Herrscher of Frost via a stellaron. Something is up with the Aeons and Stellarons and their connection to Honkai will be important.
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Apr 30, 2023 16:04
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Boris Galerkin posted:What is "Break Effect" break effect is the thing that happens when you break an enemy with a specific element. most elements just tack on a dot, though ice and imaginary slow the enemy/freeze them. there's no difference.
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Apr 30, 2023 16:05
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the main issue with the huge loreposts is that they are tedious and charmless. i might read them if they were good instead. peace
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Apr 30, 2023 16:05
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Nice to see Characters actually hang around in locations in the world, I remember a lot of people complaining about that aspect in Genshin 
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Apr 30, 2023 16:09
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Eimi posted:Yeah like it's hard to say Honkai Impact doesn't matter when Welt a main cast member, is the same Welt from Honkai Impact who traveled to this universe. Alongside a potential major villain, the Void Archives. Silver Wolf is very likely just Bronie/Haxxor Bunny from the Captainverse who last time we saw her had her own universe traveling powers. Imaginary and Quanta are powers here and their relation to the Imaginary Tree and Sea of Quanta is still important. I'm sure they will introduce those for new players, but they are too important of concepts to just not bring up. Doubly so when first planet spoilers Cocolia turns into a form that looks exactly like the Herrscher of Frost via a stellaron. Something is up with the Aeons and Stellarons and their connection to Honkai will be important. See this is exactly what I mean by all Honkai Impact players being brokebrained. It's like you don't understand how stories work, all you see is "lore." If Welt being a dimensional traveler is relevant it'll come up, and if it's not it won't.
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Apr 30, 2023 16:09
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Archonex posted:All of the games are marketed that way, but also incorporate elements of past games that usually end up being relevant to the plot in some sort of way. Hell, Honkai Impact 3 is based off of a prior game whose overall nature of it's plot has literally has changed over time due to sequel games from a grimdark story that was unrelentingly bleak to a "what if this was the grimdark timeline where everything sucked and everyone suffered?". Honkai 2nd kind of came out at a time when ultra grimdark twisted subversion stories were all the rage in the anime community in the early to mid 2010's, which IMO in part came as a pendulum swinging response to the sugary moe stuff that was all the rage of the mid to late 2000's. Since then it feels like what's trendy in the subculture has settled back down towards a middle ground again of just how life goes sometimes where you take the good and take the bad and Honkai 3rd/Genshin/Star Rail are reflecting this more. I remember a character in Genshin (might have been Yoimiya actually) making reference to grimdark subversive twisted stories (the hero slays the dragon only to become the new dragon themselves, perpetuating a cycle of hopelessness was an example they provided) being all the rage and how they just aren't into that sort of stuff very much. I tend to agree in part. Some of the popular otaku stuff of the early 2010's and the bad outcomes that would result, or just bizarre character motivations of some characters (where it seems like the writers were trying to be subversive for the sheer sake of it to provoke reactions among consumers) to the point of their whole character not really making much sense to me, just kind of didn't do it in the long run, and I thought some of those popular works of that era ended up kind of stupid in the long run for it. I'm not against dark material or dark twists or subversive stuff by any means, but it kind of has to make sense and serve a narrative purpose, otherwise it's frankly no better than things that feel the need to pull out a forced happy ending for the sake of the audiences expectations. There probably in some ways best to continue to try to bury the existence of Honkai 2nd and just focus on what they have going on currently with Honkai 3rd, Genshin and now Honkai: Star Rail continuing to march along. Clarste posted:See this is exactly what I mean by all Honkai Impact players being brokebrained. It's like you don't understand how stories work, all you see is "lore." If Welt being a dimensional traveler is relevant it'll come up, and if it's not it won't. Yeah I'm just going to assume you are weirdly chippy about a lot of things, looking to beef with people, and just not worry about reading your posts anymore. See the power of choice to read or not to read? Kale fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Apr 30, 2023 |
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Apr 30, 2023 16:10
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Eimi posted:Yeah like it's hard to say Honkai Impact doesn't matter when Welt a main cast member, is the same Welt from Honkai Impact who traveled to this universe. Alongside a potential major villain, the Void Archives. Silver Wolf is very likely just Bronie/Haxxor Bunny from the Captainverse who last time we saw her had her own universe traveling powers. Imaginary and Quanta are powers here and their relation to the Imaginary Tree and Sea of Quanta is still important. I'm sure they will introduce those for new players, but they are too important of concepts to just not bring up. Doubly so when first planet spoilers Cocolia turns into a form that looks exactly like the Herrscher of Frost via a stellaron. Something is up with the Aeons and Stellarons and their connection to Honkai will be important. i kinda hope none of this is actually true because i like games that can stand on their own two feet and not require a lore dump from other games to make sense like maybe the two games are intimately connected in extremely important ways, or maybe it's an excuse for mihoyo to recycle stuff from their other games
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Apr 30, 2023 16:11
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there's obviously connections and some of those connections might be interesting or allow you to predict or speculate on some future things like upcoming characters or plot points but they clearly arent meant to be necessary to understand the game. welt being the exact same guy seems more like a 'hes from a different game that happened previously and has some baggage' thing where you can get the gist just from knowing hes the same guy from a previous game rather than needing to know the specifics.
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Apr 30, 2023 16:11
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YES bread posted:the main issue with the huge loreposts is that they are tedious and charmless. i might read them if they were good instead. peace this, so much this don't loving post a wikipedia entry block of text you boring pedants
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Apr 30, 2023 16:13
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Okay no more of the expy lore stuff. Sorry people who were kind of interested in it and wanted to chat about that sort of stuff a little, but if enough people are going to be this pissy about it it's simply not worth it either for my time investment or the end result. There you go. 
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Apr 30, 2023 16:15
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Kale posted:Honkai 2nd kind of came out at a time when ultra grimdark twisted subversion stories were all the rage in the anime community in the early to mid 2010's, which IMO in part came as a pendulum swinging response to the sugary moe stuff that was all the rage of the mid to late 2000's. Since then it feels like what's trendy in the subculture has settled back down towards a middle ground again of just how life goes sometimes where you take the good and take the bad and Honkai 3rd/Genshin/Star Rail are reflecting this more. Honkai 2nd/GGZ is still getting updates overseas apparently. I remember seeing a video of Mei losing her poo poo as someone got turned into a monster. UHD posted:i kinda hope none of this is actually true because i like games that can stand on their own two feet and not require a lore dump from other games to make sense If there's one thing Hoyo has consistently done with all of their games so far it's making them friendly to new players and making it generally unnecessary to play the prequels/prior games to get the plot and be invested. Going off of Genshin, myth arc stuff gets shoved aside until after they've firmly established the world of the game you're playing in so that you can be invested in the game itself with hints getting tossed in here and there to show that the wider scope stuff will be relevant once they can ease folks into it after there's an existing new world already there. The other thing they've consistently done is poor customer service that's so bad you can permanently lose your account data but 
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Apr 30, 2023 16:17
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the derail about being weirdly vengeful about lore posts from the previous, patented intertwined setting has taken twice as much room in this thread as the lore posts themselves dorks. hell in this case it's more relevant as it's still a honkai game, so it will come up eventually. in the meantime yea you can walk away with welt and silver wolf are dimensional travelers, himeko is a big what-if bad things weren't there part of her character, and bronya and seele are reoccurring soul mates from an orphanage or whatever
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Apr 30, 2023 16:36
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I don’t know anything about Honkai 3rd impact and never plan to play it, but am interested in the connections to it and back stories of previously existing characters so please keep posting details please and thank you. I have no idea why this would make anyone angry. Edit: what has happened in this thread today genuinely sucks and makes me sad
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Apr 30, 2023 16:38
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I ain't reading any of the poo poo from the last two pages but I will say that I will be rolling for Kafka because she's hot.
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Apr 30, 2023 16:38
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Ibblebibble posted:I ain't reading any of the poo poo from the last two pages but I will say that I will be rolling for Kafka because she's hot. 
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Apr 30, 2023 16:39
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mostly i just wish the posts were written better than a google translated wiki
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Apr 30, 2023 16:39
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Ibblebibble posted:I ain't reading any of the poo poo from the last two pages but I will say that I will be rolling for Kafka because she's hot.
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Apr 30, 2023 16:40
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i'm grateful for the generous amount of warp points the game is giving us. and the menu navigation so far seems serviceable. Mihoyo really knows how to polish. As they better given the fistful of cash they been generating.
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Apr 30, 2023 16:40
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Gamerofthegame posted:the derail about being weirdly vengeful about lore posts from the previous, patented intertwined setting has taken twice as much room in this thread as the lore posts themselves interesting. this seems to indicate that people dont like the posts
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Apr 30, 2023 16:41
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The music in the space station reminds me of something. Phantasy Star? I haven't played that game since the early aughts, but I want to say that music is similar.Hellioning posted:In my experience every team in Genshin needs a healer/shielder it's just that most of them have other benefits too so it doesn't hurt. My teams need a healer or shielder (because I'm not very good), but with skill and enough DPS you can get by without them (and even I could probably get by without them in non-Abyss content if I'm willing to use food).
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Apr 30, 2023 16:42
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When one of the arguments connecting these things was that a generic NPC in mondstat with a generic first name was secretly this big bad guy from Honkai, who looked nothing like him, I knew that people trying to force lore connections were reaching hard.
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Apr 30, 2023 16:42
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Sam Sanskrit posted:I don’t know anything about Honkai 3rd impact and never plan to play it, but am interested in the connections to it and back stories of previously existing characters so please keep posting details please and thank you. I have no idea why this would make anyone angry. All of this. Seriously, some major goony energy coming off the anger at people trying to connect fun dots between the games in the franchise. I can’t imagine why having additional context for things is worth complaining about. Is it because it’s not in a cool shiteating YouTube format? Maybe we can post some air horn videos to play while reading the explanations to bridge that gap.
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Apr 30, 2023 16:43
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forget it, whatever
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Apr 30, 2023 16:51
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Harvey Baldman posted:All of this. Seriously, some major goony energy coming off the anger at people trying to connect fun dots between the games in the franchise. I can’t imagine why having additional context for things is worth complaining about. Is it because it’s not in a cool shiteating YouTube format? Maybe we can post some air horn videos to play while reading the explanations to bridge that gap.
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Apr 30, 2023 16:52
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Harvey Baldman posted:All of this. Seriously, some major goony energy coming off the anger at people trying to connect fun dots between the games in the franchise. I can’t imagine why having additional context for things is worth complaining about. Is it because it’s not in a cool shiteating YouTube format? Maybe we can post some air horn videos to play while reading the explanations to bridge that gap. I'm sorry, to make up for it here is the entire Lore section for Bronya in Honkai 3rd Bronya Zaychik Bronya Zaychik was a Russian orphan who was raised as an assassin since she was young due to the aftermath of the 2nd Houkai War. Eventually she was sent to assassinate Cocolia, a member of Anti-Entropy, but failed in her mission. Instead of killing her, Cocolia took pity on Bronya and took her to be raised in her orphanage. There Bronya was experimented on, gaining the power to use Houkai energy, levitate, manipulate Remodelled Bunny 19C, and more but lost her emotions and the ability to use her legs due to the X-10 Experiment. By Cocolia's commands, she was sent to St. Freya High School in order to spy on Schicksal. Bronya is later known as the Herrscher of Reason. She appears in Chapter 1 alongside Kiana Kaslana and Raiden Mei while fending off Houkai Beasts. In Chapter 10, 11 and 12, Bronya plays an important role. Origin Bronya was an orphan who lost her home and family in the 2nd Honkai War and was captured by the Siberian army who trained her as a soldier, which led her on becoming the infamous and feared sniper, the Silver Wolf of the Urals, until she got knocked out by Cocolia, who took her in to her Orphanage, where Bronya met Seele Vollerei. However, the orphanage hid a dark secret; its true purpose was for an experiment known as the 'X-10', and the are had hidden experimentation facilities and supplies of the X-10 project. After losing Seele when she disappeared into quantum state due to failure of the X-10, Bronya entered St. Freya High School as a mole of Anti-Entropy with hopes of saving her long-lost friend. Name Reading Bronya has two readings: one is Bro/nya, pronounced "Bronia"; the other is bron/ya, pronounced "Bǎnyā" (Which means "Salted Duck" in Chinese). In addition to the English name, Houkai Gakuen 2 and Houkai 3rd related works were written in the form of "Bronia". However, in the voice of the game, both TetraCalyx and Hanazawa Kana tend to read the name as "Bǎnyā". It can be said that the pronunciation of "Bangya" is also officially recognized after that. Bronya means "Armor" and Zaychick means "Bunny". So, in a way, her full name means Armor(ed) Bunny, referencing Remodelled Bunny 19C. Character Introduction After the 2nd Houkai War, Bronya became an orphan and was trained by the government as an child soldier. In 2014, the year of the ‘Third Honkai Disaster’, Bronya was known as the Silver Wolf, a cold-blooded sniper who was renowned for her combat capabilities and deadly aim. During one of these missions, she attempted to snipe Cocolia, but she was found out and knocked unconscious by her. Cocoila adopted her, as she did not want to kill children. Bronya would later start an relationship with Seele Vollerei. When Seele was abducted by mercenaries, Bronya immediately went out to save her, killing all of them with her socks she had on her at the time. Due to the blood stains on her, Seele unintentionally called her a demon- though the stigmata in her stated that she was excited- which prompted Bronya to promise her that she would never kill again. Sin Mal despised and envied Bronya for an unknown reason and saw her as a rival. She would later push Bronya down a staircase, which would break one of her legs. Honkai Impact 3 Mainline Becoming a Valkyria Cocolia had secretly adopted orphans and took them to her orphanage. She chooses specific orphans that are capable of withstanding Honkai energy in order to advance the X-10 Experiment. Bronya was one of the initial test subjects, but Seele took her place after showing Cocolia her Stigmata's power. The experiment ended in failure, as while the desired results were obtained, Seele dissolved into a quantum state and could only be communicated with on that plane. Shortly after, Bronya learnt everything from Cocolia, and demanded access to the X-10 Experiment by threatening to commit suicide if she was denied. Cocolia informed her because of her wounded leg, she could not stay longer than 5 minutes inside the quantum state. In reality, Bronya had no intentions of returning, as she was determined to be with Seele at all costs. Seele was surprised to see Bronya and knew that she had taken part in the experiment and begged her to leave, though Bronya refused to do so. The allotted time had passed, and Anti-Entropy's researchers attempted to extract her from the quantum plane, but she resisted all of their attempts. The Honkai energy began to damage her brain and legs. Seele confessed her feelings to Bronya, and the two made a promise that Bronya would find a way to bring Seele back to the real world. Seele also gave Bronya what she discovered inside a box, the power of "Rebuild", which was Remodelled Bunny 19C. She then surprised her with a kiss, before letting her know that she would have to return the favor the next time they met. As a result of staying in the quantum plane longer than intended, Bronya lost the ability to feel a wide range of emotions, required advanced legs prosthesis in order to move and had a biochip inserted in her brain to maintain survival. Her last hope was to have Seele manifest via a Herrscher. The girl was revealed to be Raiden Mei, whose father, Ryoma, had sealed it. Cocolia tasked Bronya with bringing an awakened Mei to her, but this was unexpectedly stopped by Kiana Kaslana, a fellow Valkyrja and student. The Mysterious Battleship Sometime during the 3rd Honkai Eruption, a mysterious battleship appeared. When Kiana fell into a coma, Bronya immediately linked her mind to a simulation to explore what was causing Kiana to lapse. After dispelling the entity and securing the ship, the entity told Kiana that the ship was hers. Bronya was tasked with controlling the ship, but she suddenly turned into her Black Nucleus form when Cocolia decided to control her and attacked Kiana and Mei. She was put down by the two and did not recall what had just happened. Bronya would later be tasked alongside Kiana and Mei to find the four gems to power the ship. The first gem was the Gem of Desire, which resided in the abandoned New Zealand branch. The Fourth Herrscher Upon arriving at the remains of the New Zealand branch, they immediately found a single girl, who introduced herself as Wendy and revealed that she has the gem they were looking for in her legs, causing them to get damaged. Bronya had sympathy for Wendy because she was disabled like her and offered her a ride to show her what it meant to fly. While the gem occasionally caused her to become a pseudo-Herrscher. Bronya tried to persuade her to stand down, which she eventually did. However, she suddenly turned into her Black Nucleus form again and started attacking Wendy, who now believed Bronya had lied to her and attacked the group. Wendy was eventually weakened, and Anti-Entropy mechas suddenly appeared. Her adoptive mother, Cocolia, was behind the scheme and departed with her, Wendy and Mei to their headquarters, prompting Kiana to rescue all of them. The Anti-Entropy Incident Bronya would eventually help Kiana, Theresa enter the Anti-Entropy headquarters despite the obvious trap Theresa suspected. When they approached Mei, Cocolia tried to have Bronya battle Kiana, but she refused, revealing to her that because of the kindness Mei had showed her, she removed her biochip even though it has the great risk of dying. After defeating the mecha MSR-7 "Godfather", both Bronya and Wendy were immediately rushed into intensive care. Wendy did not survive but the efforts of Schicksal's medical team ensured that Bronya survived, albeit in a comatose state. Recovering her Memory While in her comatose state, Fu Hua used her powers to enter Bronya's mind. Since she had forgotten everything about herself, Fu Hua told Idol that she was the Sage and helped her break out of prison. She was referred to as the Idol. During the escape, she also encountered a HOMU and freed it from the prison and attended a competition to see which HOMU could control the Golem (Remodelled Bunny 19C). When the Idol approached the Golem, it woke and expended its powers before testing her, which she passed. The Idol would later assist the HOMUs in fighting the witches. Upon encountering the Ice Witch (Snowy Sniper) was defeated and threatened to kill a HOMEI, though HOMU distracted her enough for the Idol to kill the Ice Witch. The Ice Witch represented Bronya's loneliness, which the Idol absorbed. They then moved on to the Aegis Witch (Yamabuki Armor), a paranoid witch who relied on a shield. Upon defeating her, the Idol stated that the shield was full of discontent before killing her, taking those traits in. The last witch, the Dark Witch (Black Nucleus) attacked the HOMU kingdom but was defeated by the Idol. The Sage revealed that the Idol had the power of playback, but she did not give up and continued on her mission. Upon battling and defeating the final witch, the Dark Witch cursed Bronya to be used as a weapon, which Bronya had finally accepted and took in the last remaining remnants of her personality. She also recognized the Sage as the Monitor and chastised her for invading her mind, even though the Monitor stated that she would forget all of the recent events when she woke up.
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Apr 30, 2023 16:52
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Sam Sanskrit posted:Edit: what has happened in this thread today genuinely sucks and makes me sad dog one person got told that their posts were kind of boring this isnt 9/11
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Apr 30, 2023 16:53
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^^^ Sure, it might not be 9/11. But why did 9/11 happen? I'll tell you why. It happened because of posts like this. Is it ever explained why some of the characters in this have super powers? Like some of the main cast it makes sense, because they have random weird things going on, but why can Seele move at super speed with a glowing scythe (or the other characters who aren't part of the protagonist's elite organization)? Normally I'd just ignore it, but in Genshin it's explained as "powers from Visions or being a god" and (from what I understand) in Honkai they're part of some group that has special powers used to fight the bad guys.
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Apr 30, 2023 16:54
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Did I miss what a "follow up attack" is? I'm getting a lot of the synergy cards in world 1 and have no idea how to trigger it.
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Apr 30, 2023 16:55
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seems like its just a thing people can do when their power level is maximum, even the generic guards are doing flips and stuff in their attack animations
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Apr 30, 2023 16:55
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