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Gaius Marius posted:Cultural osmosis has it's limits especially with that generation about to start pushing up daisies. From a business perspective it behooves Sunrise to make sure that the Post Zoomer generation is firmly rooted in the firmament of Gundam; this to ensure that all the other UC ecosystem remains profitable and ripe for exploitation. Consider that if Char and Amuro stop being bywords in the animeical lexicon the reduction of cultural cachet will deprive any projects using the reflections or interpretations of those characters of meaning. People love finding connections between disparate events and characters, the nexus it creates entrenches the ideas of the show in the viewers mind and the act of treasure hunting for them can be the cause of as much pleasure in the audience as the music or story. Part of the ascendancy of gundam to the paramount position of mecha media is the deep well of references and connections the viewer can identify and discuss. Since all these connections ultimately derive from the MSG well there is a will to weld these tropes and concepts into the will of audience that is coming and is to come. Char Aznable was selling McDonalds burgers just last year. And it wasn't a small campaign, either. The original Gundam is still widely available in Japan, and reading the depths of Japanese geek arguments (something I do not recommend) it's generally agreed that, to most people, Char and Amuro are Gundam. The idea that Bandai needs to do a remake to gain cultural cachet is absurd, doubly so when Hathaway gets similar ratings to new shows when broadcast over a year after its home release. The idea that Bandai is in a crisis where people stop thinking of Char and Amuro as Major Characters, but also think a new TV show likely to get lower ratings than Butt Detective is the solution is deeply weird to me.
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May 3, 2023 05:06
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ninjewtsu posted:i would watch a steven spielberg directed gundam movie He doesn't really have the right sensibility for the project, although perhaps the right amount of experience with CGI that will certainly be used. Despite the mainstream appeal, Gundam is tonally a very off kilter series. Unorthodxically I'd say Yorgos Lanthimos or Ari Aster would be surprisingly good fits for the film's character and tone. More mainstreamally GDT is actually a perfect fit. He's already done a big budget Giant Robot movie, and he hates fascism. chiasaur11 posted:Char Aznable was selling McDonalds burgers just last year. And it wasn't a small campaign, either. Disney is already dealing with this, they've got the same problem but time shifted forward. They need the unborn to associate Lions with Simba and Mermaids with Ariel or their hold on the consciousness is gone. Serious some of you cat's are acting like record execs before CD's or before Tape, or before Streaming. If you aren't actively promoting your brand for the future you are hosed. Companies with strong IP need extreme long term vision otherwise they will be subsumed. Gaius Marius fucked around with this message at 05:14 on May 3, 2023 |
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May 3, 2023 05:08
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star wars continues to be a fun reference point
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May 3, 2023 05:51
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Gaius Marius posted:I hate musicals Those are good films but otherwise bad taste nonetheless Gaius Marius posted:The Streak from Fritz to Wizards is an animation hot streak matched only by Satoshi Kon. His Lord of the Rings is easily a match for that one australian guy who did the other movies, I forgot his name. Anyways Cool World in retrospect is easy to see as one of the most prescient films of the nineties. This admittedly is a pretty good take, though now I just realized that Wizards and F-91 have very similar structures in having really good(and indeed arguably iconic) starts and finishes but kind of meandering and forgettable middle sections, and I say that as someone who loves dearly both films
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May 3, 2023 06:06
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The brand is strong if they give me more THUNDERBOLT anime
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May 3, 2023 08:44
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Gaius Marius posted:Serious some of you cat's are acting like record execs before CD's or before Tape, or before Streaming. If you aren't actively promoting your brand for the future you are hosed. Companies with strong IP need extreme long term vision otherwise they will be subsumed. And they are promoting their brand. They built a life sized walking Gundam, for gently caress's sake. The idea that this is a binary between "Remake the original Gundam" and "Do nothing" is completely false. Bandai can make movies, comics, games, and more promoting the original Gundam without attempting a one-for-one replacement, and so far, that's been the approach they've embraced. They want new viewers to say "Wow, Char is cool, I want to see more about him." and then go back to the original, because that lets them get more from the investment. (They pay for one new movie, audiences pay for that movie and the old show they didn't have to spend any more money on.) If you look at Disney, they used to get generational mileage from their older archives, not by remaking them (which is arguably devaluing their pop culture footprint) but by continually promoting them. Disneyland, Saturday morning cartoons, merch, advertising media showing collections of characters together (most famously the princesses), it all was a way to get more cultural mindshare from the same base product. You make a film, make it good, and then you can make all the promotional crap you want to funnel people towards it without hurting the core film, or costing the same resources. Bandai might or might not go for a remake of the original Gundam. But right now, I'd say there's no obvious reason to try for it, and a lot of clear costs. Then again, I know this isn't exactly a reasonable argument to get sucked into. It's not always clear how much someone online means their takes versus trying for a reaction. But Atlantis as one of the only two good Disney movies? Bakshi as the greatest visionary other than Kon? It was a nice piece of work, Gaius. You shouldn't have signed it.
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May 3, 2023 08:53
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chiasaur11 posted:But right now, I'd say there's no obvious reason to try for it, and a lot of clear costs. They've already done psuedo remakes, sequels, prequels, interquels, alternate versions, alternate sequels, spinoffs of every flavor. They've been circling the edges for decades. They're going to remake it in our lifetime, and it's going to be absolute garbage. chiasaur11 posted:Bakshi as the greatest visionary other than Kon? chiasaur11 posted:Then again, I know this isn't exactly a reasonable argument to get sucked into. It's not always clear how much someone online means their takes versus trying for a reaction. Secondly you need to put some respect on Bakshi's name. Fritz the Cat is one of the most successful Independents of all time in box office draw. The man managed to single handedly create an independent animation genre, an adult animation genre, and a non Disney affiliated theatrical animation genre with one film. Hell he also created the first truly socially conscious American animation. Dude is an absolute legend and time will canonize his works. He's actually pretty similar to De Palma, extremely novel and successful. But just too far on wrong side of the "civility" line to not be sidenoted unlike your Scorsese's or Coppola's Gaius Marius fucked around with this message at 09:53 on May 3, 2023 |
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May 3, 2023 09:48
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Gaius Marius posted:Secondly you need to put some respect on Bakshi's name. Fritz the Cat is one of the most successful Independents of all time in box office draw. The man managed to single handedly create an independent animation genre, an adult animation genre, and a non Disney affiliated theatrical animation genre with one film. Hell he also created the first truly socially conscious American animation. Dude is an absolute legend and time will canonize his works. You're right, you've been saying the same things all along because you believe them. I was just being an rear end. My apologies. I also will admit that Fritz the Cat is far more impressive a success than I gave it credit for. I think we both can agree that judging art by financial success feels really scuzzy, but 90 million for an X rated independent cartoon at the time is insane and suggests, if nothing else, a real talent for finding an audience. That said, although there's no knowing what might happen down the line, it does feel like 50 years is long enough for initial sentiment to have settled down and evaluations to have shifted to something longer term... and what I've seen of discussion of Bakshi's stuff seemed more positive in the 70s than today, rather than the reverse. It was revolutionary, yes, but there are works that have a massive impact and hold up (like the original Gundam) and works that have a massive impact but don't really hold up so well on their own. I'll need to give things more study on my own to really judge fairly, but a lot of Bakshi's stuff from what I've seen falls more into category 2. Then again, it seems interesting and distinct and (I'm sorry if I'm out of line) it seems you put a lot of value on strong, distinct visions over more conventional metrics. Edit: But I'm getting off topic. So, Gundam! Here's hoping the next Hathaway's coming along nicely. Curious how they're going to handle the later acts of the story, and how the location scouting in Australia will pay off. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 10:22 on May 3, 2023 |
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May 3, 2023 10:14
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i don't think they're even working on hathaway my thinking is we'll see unicorn 2 first, and then they'll buckle down and figure out how to do hathaway because covid isn't magically going away
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May 3, 2023 13:22
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Gripweed posted:I agree with the spirit of your post but am firmly against this phrase. It sounds like a rejected line from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back The spirit of the dead speak through me. Gaius Marius posted:More mainstreamally GDT is actually a perfect fit. He's already done a big budget Giant Robot movie, and he hates fascism. Except GDT’s Giant Robot movie sucked poo poo, even while riffing on a pretty easy concept (Evangelion episode 10). This kind of discussion is irrelevant though, because we have our live-action Gundam director, Jordan Vogt-Roberts. It’ll probably be a fun enough time without much character depth or that particular Gundam flavor, made by a guy who’s been outed as a creep.
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May 3, 2023 14:17
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It will probably be as good as a Gundam movie made in the 2020s Hollywood system is allowed to be
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May 3, 2023 14:19
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Waffleman_ posted:It will probably be as good as a Gundam movie made in the 2020s Hollywood system is allowed to be That's honestly a reasonably high ceiling for a fun night at the movies. Avatar 2, Battle Angel Alita, and D&D: Honour Among Thieves all seemed to match the sort of quality you'd want from a decent Gundam movie.
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May 3, 2023 14:33
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if this results in a big budget cgi spectacle colony drop sequence being uploaded to youtube it will be worth it
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May 3, 2023 14:36
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X-Ray Pecs posted:The spirit of the dead speak through me. I have to disagree with you here. Pacific Rim itself was that good poo poo- It's sequels were bad, but that was due to a number of factors (including hollywood's grudge against John Boyega).
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May 3, 2023 15:01
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Darth Walrus posted:That's honestly a reasonably high ceiling for a fun night at the movies. Avatar 2, Battle Angel Alita, and D&D: Honour Among Thieves all seemed to match the sort of quality you'd want from a decent Gundam movie. Two of those are by actually established auteurs. And game night showed the DND people could make a fun and funny movie riffing off game concepts. Can we really say Kong Skull Island inspires as much confidence as From Dusk til Dawn or Titanic? Not that Titanic is good, but it was successful.
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May 3, 2023 21:08
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Gaius Marius posted:Serious some of you cat's are acting like record execs before CD's or before Tape, or before Streaming. If you aren't actively promoting your brand for the future you are hosed. Companies with strong IP need extreme long term vision otherwise they will be subsumed. This is such a weird analogue. The listed examples lost relevance because they're technologies and not brands, so superior technology could supersede their place in the market. Nothing short of outright brainwashing was going to stop people from moving on and leaving that technology behind. Which is discounting that now, after decades of irrelevance and no active brand promotion of any kind on the part of the original owners, some section of the market is shifting back towards records as a luxury because streaming music has become so cheap and simple that people don't mind the cost and disadvantages of records for the few advantages they do offer. If anything, those companies attempting to hold a long term vision using the original technology is what hosed them and drove many companies attempting it into destitution as smaller companies promoted new technology. Some of whom are now the big dinosaurs of the current age, and struggling to maintain relevance as new technologies and platforms come through the market; often by chasing trends or trying to give slight tweaks to the product that made their name without really understanding why people have moved away from them in the first place. Or at least, without being willing to forego their original business model to embrace the things making other companies successful. No story is evergreen. I'm not sure what the oldest franchise that still has relevance today is, but Star Trek is probably a good bet, having debuted in 1966 and thus being 57 years old at the moment. It's probably not at it's height anymore as a cultural icon, but it's making several new shows and they're all at least somewhat popular and a lot of fans still love the original show. Including people who very definitely were not alive when it originally aired. Or whose parents weren't even alive when it aired. The movies that were meant to "remake" the original show probably drew in some fans, but the various TV shows creating new fans who eventually got funneled through the archive into older shows is probably a far more successful path, and in general, IPs seem to hold long term success that way i.e. creating successful new shows built on the original, but not enslaved to it or endlessly remaking it.
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May 3, 2023 21:12
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https://twitter.com/mechagaikotsu/status/1653723284381335554?s=46&t=K6CRMiA33aFQep_ZPx64DQ
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May 3, 2023 21:49
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Sherlock Holmes is way older than Star Trek.
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May 3, 2023 21:52
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Gripweed posted:https://twitter.com/mechagaikotsu/status/1653723284381335554?s=46&t=K6CRMiA33aFQep_ZPx64DQ Mecha Gaikotsu's review of the HG Tristan is funny. It's an Alex that got shoved in a blender with a Mk-II. It should be a no brainer to look fantastic and that's the gunpla it got.
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May 3, 2023 21:55
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Gripweed posted:Sherlock Holmes is way older than Star Trek. Sure, but it's not nearly as relevant. It has the occasional show or movie, but (a) they're not anywhere as popular or often as something like Star Trek and (b) they're almost all trying to remake the original with some modern updates and not doing their own thing. And those two things may be related.
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May 3, 2023 21:56
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tsob posted:Sure, but it's not nearly as relevant. It has the occasional show or movie, but (a) they're not anywhere as popular of often as something like Star Trek and (b) they're almost all trying to remake the original with some modern updates and not doing their own thing. And those two things may be related. I guarantee you more people saw the Robert Downey Jr Sherlock’s than saw Star Trek Discovery season 4.
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May 3, 2023 21:57
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Gripweed posted:I guarantee you more people saw the Robert Downey Jr Sherlock’s than saw Star Trek Discovery season 4. I guarantee you that more people will remain fans of Star Trek due to starting with Discovery than will remain fans of Sherlock Holmes due to starting with the Downey movies.
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May 3, 2023 21:59
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Also, what do you mean Sherlock stuff is remakes of the original? The original what? The RDJ movies, Sherlock, and Elementary all bear very little resemblance to the original stories. And they’re nothing like the Rathbone movies. Compare that to the latest Star Trek, where the literal entire selling point was that they got the original guys to stand on a replica of the original set exactly where they stood in the original show.
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May 3, 2023 22:02
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The vast majority of Sherlock stuff, including the BBC Sherlock show and Elementary base the cast on the characters in the original stories and a lot of the plots are modern updates of stories that Arthur Conan Doyle wrote like "A Study in Scarlet". They don't expand the concept much, if at all in many cases, and instead just update it for modern audiences in various ways. By contrast, while Strange New Worlds kicks off from the original show, it immediately establishes it's own identity.
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May 3, 2023 22:07
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tsob posted:The vast majority of Sherlock stuff, including the BBC Sherlock show and Elementary base the cast on the characters in the original stories and a lot of the plots are modern updates of stories that Arthur Conan Doyle wrote like "A Study in Scarlet". They don't expand the concept much, if at all in many cases, and instead just update it for modern audiences in various ways. By contrast, while Strange New Worlds kicks off from the original show, it immediately establishes it's own identity. I think we’re jst disagreeing on definitions, you said franchise when I would have said cinematic/televisual universe. Like, I will agree that Sherlock stuff doesn’t really expand the Sherlock universe.
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May 3, 2023 22:13
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Strange New Worlds is a pretty bad example to use for Star Trek innovating beyond its origins considering it's literally a direct continuation off The Cage, ie: the first ST pilot from 1965.
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May 3, 2023 22:26
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I don't think it is, because it's its own show for better or worse. It mostly uses new characters, new situations etc. You can watch it with no familiarity with the original show, still enjoy it and not lose much in the experience beyond some nods or references.
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May 3, 2023 22:31
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tsob posted:I don't think it is, because it's its own show for better or worse. It mostly uses new characters, new situations etc. You can watch it with no familiarity with the original show, still enjoy it and not lose much in the experience beyond some nods or references. No, it literally is. The producers have even called it the longest pilot-to-series pick up in television history.
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May 3, 2023 22:34
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3 posted:No, it literally is. The producers have even called it the longest pilot-to-series pick up in television history. Yup, and the people who like Star Trek's original show generally didn't like it because of the pilot with Captain Pike, but because of the show that pilot resulted in with Captain Kirk.
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May 3, 2023 22:39
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tsob posted:Yup, and the people who like Star Trek's original show generally didn't like it because of the pilot with Captain Pike, but because of the show that pilot resulted in with Captain Kirk.  What the gently caress are you talking about? SNW has been a massive hit with TOS fans specifically because of the nostalgia factor and return to a more loose, episodic story structure. The season 1 finale was even a "what if" retelling of a beloved classic TOS episode.
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May 3, 2023 22:48
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3 posted:
Read the words again. I said that people who like The Original Series, as in the 1966 show, did not like it because of the pilot with Captain Pike, but because of the show that pilot resulted in with Captain Kirk. Many of the people who were fans didn't even see the pilot for years. Strange New Worlds builds off the pilot, not the original show for the most part, introducing a lot of it's own lore rather than retreading the first show.
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May 3, 2023 22:50
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Ok cool, so you don't know anything about Star Trek or fans of Star trek. Maybe next time choose a better example I guess? e: like if you really wanted an in-franchise example of a Star Trek disregarding the canon and going off to do its own thing, Discovery from season 3 onward is right there, they just took the crew and threw them into the 32nd century where they get to go off and do their own thing. SNW is built on a foundation of TOS nostalgia, like the throughline of Pike's conflict of knowing his own future is predicated on the episode The Menagerie, or Spock's girlfriend ending up as his ex-girlfriend in Amok Time etc. 3 fucked around with this message at 22:57 on May 3, 2023 |
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May 3, 2023 22:52
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I feel like I'm in the RedLetterMedia thread with all this star trek chat.
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May 3, 2023 22:54
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I've heard people call Gundam the Japanese Star Trek, but this is a bit ridiculous.
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May 3, 2023 23:19
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Omnicrom posted:I've heard people call Gundam the Japanese Star Trek, but this is a bit ridiculous. That would be ridiculous because Japanese Star Trek is obviously Yamato.
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May 3, 2023 23:23
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Arc Hammer posted:Mecha Gaikotsu's review of the HG Tristan is funny. It's an Alex that got shoved in a blender with a Mk-II. It should be a no brainer to look fantastic and that's the gunpla it got. the alex is already the mk ii but with thicker armor
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May 3, 2023 23:37
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Stairmaster posted:the alex is already the mk ii but with thicker armor Yeah but the calf vents are cool
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May 3, 2023 23:40
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Fivemarks posted:I have to disagree with you here. Pacific Rim itself was that good poo poo- It's sequels were bad, but that was due to a number of factors (including hollywood's grudge against John Boyega). Wait, what'd they do to boyega
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May 3, 2023 23:43
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Arc Hammer posted:Yeah but the calf vents are cool the mk ii also has those
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May 3, 2023 23:44
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Stairmaster posted:the mk ii also has those The Mk2 has piddly little ones. The Alex as big strong ones.
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