|
davidspackage posted:100% with you on this, might as well put on jogging pants and big white sneakers underneath. I really like things being comfier, this isn't a super-hard military.
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 07:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 09:55 |
|
|
Eimi posted:I always thought the Maquis made sense. They're exactly the sort of people who would leave post scarcity paradise to go be dirt farmers on some untamed planet. The weird part was why Starfleet officers defected in droves to them. Nothing about the maquis made sense. They were stupid from start to finish.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 07:17
|
|
|
CainFortea posted:Nothing about the maquis made sense. They were stupid from start to finish. Good news, thanks to Ro's appearance in Picard they are all literally dead now.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 07:29
|
|
|
Hey now, Chakotay (depending on Prodigy) and/or Torres ( ) could still be alive
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 07:30
|
|
|
Going camping is a nihilist subversive action?
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 07:33
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:I really like things being comfier, this isn't a super-hard military. Geordi walks onto the bridge wearing a bath robe and bear slippers, carrying a giant mug of coffee
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 07:39
|
|
|
davidspackage posted:Geordi walks onto the bridge wearing a bath robe and bear slippers, carrying a giant mug of coffee Probert wanted to put cup holders onto the TNG bridge and they never did but they added them in Picard to add an extra bit of detail for the 4k.  They're forcefield cup holders I guess.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 07:48
|
|
|
CainFortea posted:Nothing about the maquis made sense. They were stupid from start to finish. The Maquis were just ahead of their time with the stupid-first platform.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 09:13
|
|
|
The Maquis couldn't pick a lane, I think what was confusing was they had two separate grievances -- "we were displaced from our home by a treaty which ultimately benefited the most people but still sucks for us" and "technology bad" -- and they kept getting conflated in a way that didn't really make sense.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 12:24
|
|
|
Sir Lemming posted:The Maquis couldn't pick a lane, I think what was confusing was they had two separate grievances -- "we were displaced from our home by a treaty which ultimately benefited the most people but still sucks for us" and "technology bad" -- and they kept getting conflated in a way that didn't really make sense. While it made them poo poo in the show, honestly that sounds pretty true to life of many different political groups. But yeah they just never came off particular sympathetic, as like they chose to live in a really dangerous part of the galaxy than complained about it when it came back to bite them on the arse. Like sure you got a bit of a raw deal but you wanted a wild frontier life, that sort of comes with it.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 12:40
|
|
|
The line about the colonists being warned in advance the area was in dispute basically neutered the whole Maquis complaint from the start.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 12:44
|
|
|
90s Star Trek was very rarely willing to engage with the idea of the Federation just being objectively in the wrong and both sides-ing the Maquis totally undermined the whole thing. The only way to make them sympathetic was if they were just unequivocally misled or abandoned by the Federation, but they both knew what was going on and were offered an all-expenses-paid way out of their predicament. Repeatedly. Like their political argument was literally "the Federation should go to war with their fascist neighbor so we can live on this specific planet that wasn't ours in the first place."
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 12:48
|
|
|
it gets lost in the later episodes about it and especially in Voyager, but the Maquis' main complaint stems from the Federation's complete disengagement from the situation in the region besides doing the minimum required to prolong a ceasefire the colonists weren't represented at the treaty negotiations, the Federation took the least favorable offer and ceded all Cardassian-occuped planets to Cardassia but didn't even try to ask for the reverse, and Starfleet is more interested in punishing colonists for defending themselves than requiring Cardassia to uphold their treaty obligations to respect the colonists' autonomy or standing up for them in any way besides just saying "you can move if you want" the answer of "you can move if you want" still hangs over the plot in a way that's not answered more satisfactorily than "we don't want to", but the early driving motivation behind the Maquis is more about how they're incensed that the Federation won't stand up for them the way Cardassia stands up for its own colonists, while simultaneously refusing to grant them the independence to manage their own affairs The Chairman fucked around with this message at 13:13 on May 11, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 13:09
|
|
|
The Chairman posted:the Federation took the least favorable offer and ceded all Cardassian-occuped planets to Cardassia but didn't even try to ask for the reverse They absolutely did not. Colony worlds from the two sides were initially intermingled and they both ceded colonies to the other in order to create a stable border. The ongoing activity of the Maquis and the fact that they had sympathisers in Starfleet discreetly providing aid also neutered the Federation's ability to deal with elements of the Cardassian central command doing the same with Cardassian colonists and smuggling them weapons.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 13:16
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:Probert wanted to put cup holders onto the TNG bridge and they never did but they added them in Picard to add an extra bit of detail for the 4k. Makes you wonder how much design is there for the end user's visual assistance vs. how much is a product of the mechanical principles at work. Like one could presumably stick a cup anywhere on that black rectangle and a forcefield could find it and hold it fast. Are those lines and cup shapes intended as some sort of field emitter, or are they solely for purpose-suggestive decoration?
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 14:10
|
|
|
The Maquis are logical as the emergence of a district kind of problem, but it would have made more sense to me if it was coming from Trans-Coalsack Sector settlements being sympathetic and supportive of the Maquis (because 30% of the people who settled Maquis planets were from there, and most of the rest would go to New Chicago or whatever as the nearest Developed Federation Planet rather than truck rear end all the way to Earth). But a. that was never developed and b. it starts to get fucky given that the Trek timeline is about 250 years, not about 500 years, which (for hewmons) is probably when you'd start seeing this kind of expansion. Which I think is also why "earth" and "the Homo sapiens species" and "Starfleet" kind of start to smear together, because you could easily have more distinction among them but this would require deliberate development that Trek has not done, and which might be contrary to telling many other kinds of stories.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 14:20
|
|
|
Brawnfire posted:Makes you wonder how much design is there for the end user's visual assistance vs. how much is a product of the mechanical principles at work. Like one could presumably stick a cup anywhere on that black rectangle and a forcefield could find it and hold it fast. Are those lines and cup shapes intended as some sort of field emitter, or are they solely for purpose-suggestive decoration? I think you'll find that that's actually two cross sections of the saucer section, and whenever Picard leaves his tea there, every replicator in that section spits out Tea, Earl Grey, Hot, whether you like it or not.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 14:50
|
|
|
It wasn't until Voyager, after the entire Maquis had been killed, that there were ever any actual Maquis colonist characters, and even then it seldom came up. The base concept kind of makes sense, but the shows were never really interested in telling the story of the colonists, just using it as a catalyst for more drama. There's plenty space colonies throughout Star Trek, but the franchise doesn't really want to focus on them anymore than it does on Earth, but colonies are easier to ignore. It's as much of a given in the setting that humans will spread colonies throughout the galaxy as it is that the earth won't blow up.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 15:53
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:It wasn't until Voyager, after the entire Maquis had been killed, that there were ever any actual Maquis colonist characters, and even then it seldom came up. Eddington?
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 16:05
|
|
|
dr_rat posted:While it made them poo poo in the show, honestly that sounds pretty true to life of many different political groups. It's like those moon people from Lower Decks. That one guy is screaming about how they're all murderers if they blow up the moon(that is going to kill like a million people) that is keeping some other moon's debris from landing on their moon. Then at the end of it all after trying the entire show to come up with a diplomatic, he slips up and says it's just him and his wife living alone and they're really rich. The Chairman posted:it gets lost in the later episodes about it and especially in Voyager, but the Maquis' main complaint stems from the Federation's complete disengagement from the situation in the region besides doing the minimum required to prolong a ceasefire Yes! They were! They were in the Federation. The treaty included the Federation. And many planets were swapped, it wasn't just "give cardassians everything". And finally, they were absolutely allowed to leave. Thats what happened. That's...that's what the maquis is. Hell one planet even went directly to Cardassian control willingly. And yes, the Federation should have been more interested in catching colonists for doing a terrorism because if they didn't catch the terrorists then it could restart a war which would kill a lot more people. The maquis were boomers who moved to a house 500 feet from the end of a runway, viewed the house while planes were taking off, bought it, and decided to buy stingers and shoot down the airplanes because they were mad at the sound.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 16:31
|
|
|
CainFortea posted:The maquis were boomers who moved to a house 500 feet from the end of a runway, viewed the house while planes were taking off, bought it, and decided to buy stingers and shoot down the airplanes because they were mad at the sound. The [ahem, edit] latter: fighting literal fascist invaders who took over their country and installed a government of brutal collaborators. The [d'oh] former: colonisers who set up home in a disputed region and could have left at any time to go to a countless number of other habitable worlds when the borders were shifted by diplomatic treaty to prevent an open war, but instead decided to pour fuel on the fire by starting a guerrilla conflict. Small Strange Bird fucked around with this message at 19:02 on May 11, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 17:14
|
|
|
rear end in a top hat French not leaving France to get away from the Nazis and endangering the peace of the rest of the world for the sake of their "homes".
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 17:19
|
|
|
Captain, the universal translator appears to have mixed up "former" and "latter" again. I'll get Barclay on it.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 17:39
|
|
|
Do you think Barclay has a special mode on the translator where it transliterates cues and implications so he won't miss them? I'd totally use it.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 17:41
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:rear end in a top hat French not leaving France to get away from the Nazis and endangering the peace of the rest of the world for the sake of their "homes". Well that sure is a stupid take.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 17:44
|
|
|
CainFortea posted:Well that sure is a stupid take. It was a joke on Payndz mixing up former and latter.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 17:48
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:It was a joke on Payndz mixing up former and latter. Ah, my bad then.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 17:49
|
|
|
That reminds me, how does the universal translator know when you are intending to speak in a different language when a character goes "My people have a saying" and not translate that. Does the universal translator have a dramatic license detector?
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 17:59
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:Do you think Barclay has a special mode on the translator where it transliterates cues and implications so he won't miss them? Barclay's probably softmodded his universal translator so he basically comes across like an Elcor to every non-English speaking person he encounters. Just an endless stream of "Extremely awkwardly, ...hello."
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 18:04
|
|
|
CainFortea posted:They weren't human. The post I was replying to was questioning if code of honour people were human, because they just looked like humans. And I am saying "Yes, this planet also just had people who looked like humans"
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 18:12
|
|
|
CainFortea posted:Yes! They were! They were in the Federation. The treaty included the Federation. That's the problem though. The people were members of the Federation, but that doesn't mean they were included or even consulted. Building a bike lane requires more local consultation. Imagine if the US decided to turn over Puerto Rico to the Dominican Republic, but never actually consulted anyone that lives in Puerto Rico. Would you accept it and say that the Puerto Ricans didn't need consultation because we're all Americans anyhow?
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 18:13
|
|
|
Sash! posted:That's the problem though. The people were members of the Federation, but that doesn't mean they were included or even consulted. Building a bike lane requires more local consultation. Like it’s hard to make a 1:1 earth analogy on this one, but I cannot imagine the Maquis were unaware of the presence of Cardassia when they showed up. At a certain point they wanted the war to restart for their benefit. Why should Tellar and Betazed bleed for them? What’s their pitch to them? If there was more of a clear cultural continuum in the Federation it might have worked way better. But “we weren’t consulted” while legit as a possible explanation seems belied by the literal offer of relocation to another good planet (implied to not be that rare) at Federation expense.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 18:28
|
|
|
zoux posted:That reminds me, how does the universal translator know when you are intending to speak in a different language when a character goes "My people have a saying" and not translate that. Does the universal translator have a dramatic license detector? Maybe it translates the user’s native tongue so if they speak something else it lets the words through under the assumption there’s an intent to have those words heard as is?
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 18:34
|
|
|
The whole thing makes no sense of course but it's much better than spending 90% of every episode on translation issues. If you had to say how these things worked "irl", how do you envision it? You got Picard speaking French and Riker speaking English and Troi speaking Betazoid and somehow the UTs in their commbadges are both cancelling out the sound from their mouths while replaying it through a speaker on the badge, is how it seems like it must work. But then, what about lip flap? Is living in 24c. Federation like living in a badly dubbed 1970s kung fu movie?
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 18:38
|
|
|
zoux posted:That reminds me, how does the universal translator know when you are intending to speak in a different language when a character goes "My people have a saying" and not translate that. Does the universal translator have a dramatic license detector? Same way the doors know not to open when you walk up to them but still intend to pause and turn around and say something before you actually leave the room.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 18:44
|
|
|
Sash! posted:That's the problem though. The people were members of the Federation, but that doesn't mean they were included or even consulted. Building a bike lane requires more local consultation. Your hypothetical isn't applicable. It would be more fair to say "Imagine if the US told some Puerto Ricans to not build homes on these islands that have no one living on them, and are not currently part of Puerto Rico, as they are under dispute by China, and the islands are right next to China. And then the Puerto Ricans did anyway. And then a year later China and the US came to an agreement on the islands, swapping them around, and then offered the people who built homes there against advice millions of relocation dollars in support to help move them to totally new islands that are also uninhabited. Or they can still live on some of these islands, but they just can't have guns."
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 18:53
|
|
|
I think the Maquis was trying to aim for bitter veterans who felt betrayed by the Federation's peace treaty and their mistrust of Cardasian and as far as the colonists or Federation knew, there wasn't a hostile government out there. But we've talked about this before, I don't have much sympathy for their cause (with the exception of the native American colony) because they were willing to risk millions of lives for ~reasons~ and GOING BACK TO NATURE. They wanted the Federation to protect their rancher lifestyle and got mad when they said we'd rather not cost lives for something we can easily fix. Eddington's who INSIDIOUS FEDERATION thing is bullshit in the sense that they want to use Starfleet to inflict their worldview on others. Also, Schism's is on BBC America and it may not make people's top 10 list but its a good episode and watching it now, I realize filmed like a horror movie for the time.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 18:53
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:It was a joke on Payndz mixing up former and latter.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 19:03
|
|
|
Powered Descent posted:Same way the doors know not to open when you walk up to them but still intend to pause and turn around and say something before you actually leave the room. Those doors are so smart
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 19:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 09:55 |
|
|
zoux posted:Those doors are so smart 
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2023 19:15
|
|