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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:For me, where it becomes ~disrespectful~ is where pretty much everything having to do with the actual source material is absolutely farcical and seems purposefully made to undermine the themes and narrative of the original work while schizophrenically adhering to the original's story beats. I don't think the writers are talented enough to be deliberately undermining the themes of the original work. I think they just don't understand what those themes are in the first place.
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Jan 9, 2023 06:12
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Rappaport posted:The trailer had a very angry space doggo in it. I'm... Conflicted. In the books the Foundation is set up as this enduring institution. After some initial anxiety and the dramatic first appearance of Seldon's first crisis recording they became confident and assured in the path forward. When things seem bad Seldon has historically appeared and told them exactly what is happening and exactly what to do. The entire story revolves around Seldon being right and The Foundation working. Then, an unpredictable aberration, a psychic antagonist appears proving that Seldon can be wrong. That was more important than the mule himself and is what made him so compelling. The entire foundation of their beliefs were completely destroyed when the recordings were wrong. The show just has psychics now. Seldon even needed one for the first crisis and predicted that in advance. Gaal being absent just led to her psychic daughter being there. So however compelling or integral to the written story the antagonist was I'm pretty sure we could guess now and be mostly correct. Martial artist capable of beating the protagonists. Leather outfit. Vague, probably religious lofty rambling. Either weirdly violent or weirdly benevolent with no in-between. Kickboxing in a Return of the Jedi throne room.
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Jan 9, 2023 06:17
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The Mule is going to be Thanos. They will take that description of the fake mule from the books who is some super strong muscle man and just play it straight.
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Jan 9, 2023 06:20
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Hope they find ever more farfetched reasons to keep Lee Pace shirtless.
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Jan 9, 2023 06:29
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the mule will be another cleon clone played by lee pace and we'll have a shirtless cleon v cleon wrestling match because god dammit they know what we want from this show at this point.
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Jan 9, 2023 06:39
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IN A WORLD WHERE ONE MAN IS AN EMPIRE THIS SUMMER
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Jan 9, 2023 06:55
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:the mule will be another cleon clone played by lee pace and we'll have a shirtless cleon v cleon wrestling match because god dammit they know what we want from this show at this point.  Rectal Death Adept posted:I can't even speculate what the antagonist would be like since this is so different from the Foundation story itself. I'm certain they will use the name for an antagonist, and I'm equally sure it will be something ridiculous. Open Source Idiom posted:Look, I'm happy to watch more of the show tbh. Some of last season was crap, but I'm really not keen to see the thread turn into something super hostile to moderate or positive opinions, which is my concern going forward. I will watch this show too, and I certainly don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone who finds the show compelling on its own merits (somehow?), but there's a difference between being hostile to fellow goons and making fun of a show called Foundation, smacking name-tags from the novels on characters with very loose, at best, connections to the original work, and then making an action hero series out of them, as filler for their admittedly not-half-bad-show about the Clone Emperor dynasty. That's the show we got, and we all gotta live with it!
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Jan 9, 2023 07:07
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:the mule will be another cleon clone played by lee pace and we'll have a shirtless cleon v cleon wrestling match because god dammit they know what we want from this show at this point. 
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Jan 9, 2023 07:15
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It all just bums me out because they came so close to an awesome show! The visual style is excellent, from the way they depicted hyperspace jumps to Empire’s mural, it’s gorgeous! Lee Pace and his story owns as everyone says. But to gently caress up the writing so badly that it becomes the opposite of what it was in the books, what a waste. I would be curious to hear some behind the scenes on the show’s conception and how they got to this point. Do they really not have anyone in charge who’s read the books? Did some suit sabotage the process? This show is like if Game of Thrones had Ned Stark reveal himself to be the Prince that was Promised and they all live happily ever after.
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Jan 9, 2023 07:54
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bawfuls posted:It all just bums me out because they came so close to an awesome show! The visual style is excellent, from the way they depicted hyperspace jumps to Empire’s mural, it’s gorgeous! Lee Pace and his story owns as everyone says. But to gently caress up the writing so badly that it becomes the opposite of what it was in the books, what a waste. I would be curious to hear some behind the scenes on the show’s conception and how they got to this point. Do they really not have anyone in charge who’s read the books? Did some suit sabotage the process? It doubly sucks because the Lee Pace part of the story is such a great addition to the series, that it would actually vastly improve parts of the original story like (book spoiler) in The Mule story, when they visit "new trantor" and talk to the aged senile old emperor that still thinks he rules the galaxy, and his scheming son who dies and ends the bloodline in an unceremonious and pathetic way, imagine those scenes but now it has the weight of a senile old cleon and lee pace cleon who's the last one left. It would put so much more feeling into it! Or the extra intrigue you could show will Riose and his war on the foundation and Lee Pace having to turn on him as he gets too successful. Real missed opportunity to have an even more interesting version of Foundation.
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Jan 9, 2023 08:15
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Yes! In a well-written Foundation adaptation the Lee Pace Empire stuff would fill things out very well
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Jan 9, 2023 08:35
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bawfuls posted:It all just bums me out because they came so close to an awesome show! The visual style is excellent, from the way they depicted hyperspace jumps to Empire’s mural, it’s gorgeous! Lee Pace and his story owns as everyone says. But to gently caress up the writing so badly that it becomes the opposite of what it was in the books, what a waste. I would be curious to hear some behind the scenes on the show’s conception and how they got to this point. Do they really not have anyone in charge who’s read the books? Did some suit sabotage the process? I think this is getting the Star Trek show treatment. There may be fans or writers on the staff but complete control is given to one person who was minted in a Hack Writing 101 factory that wants to make the same terrible poo poo over and over and they keep getting given the ability to do it somehow. People involved probably really care but can't do anything about it. I can't imagine literally everyone on the writing staff is this ignorant of Asimov's actual story. I'm convinced that Strange New Worlds was only good because Alex Kurtzman was given three shows to produce simultaneously and since Picard was the new hotness everyone was interested in all of the dumb, moronic and boring nonsensical bullshit went primarily there. The Hollywood Singular Vision can't multitask. David Goyer is completely terrible from his work like Man of Steel and Batman V Superman so I assume since this was a headline show for Apple+ he was just all over it 24/7 which is why it's more like a CW superhero show than an adaptation of a story he probably never read. Rectal Death Adept fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 9, 2023 13:54
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I hope the show continues to be hilariously awful and this thread just devolves into MST3k
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Jan 9, 2023 15:58
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Falling Skies, Under The Dome and Walking Dead all had great hatewatching threads but Foundation feels different. I'll cheer when the historian that won't stop quoting George Washington ramps a sweet motorcycle over exploding aliens or something. The ending of Terra Nova's first season when someone runs from a dinosaur that is running from an explosion? Sign me up. Maybe it's my baggage with the original story getting in the way and by the third season when Hari Seldon is on a salmon ladder it won't feel so bad.
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Jan 9, 2023 16:47
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The whole thing to me that illustrates how utterly baffling and awful lack of sense a lot of the scripts make from purely a logic standpoint, as well as the mentality of the show as a whole.. is the Itchy and Scratchy fireworks factory that was Sheldon's home planet. I'm not sure if there is a sci-fi planet concept that sounds more visually interesting than what they were flying towards. And then the 'smartest man in the universe/to ever live' what.. triple or quadruples down, smugly, directly ignoring the words coming out of a young woman's mouth on what she's about to do if he doesn't present a minimal amount of information she's about to find out anyway. Which he has no physical way to stop that threatened action. All so we can run away from to me what sounded like the most intriguing sci-fi premise I have seen in quite some time (I never read any of the books). Production design is great, numerous great actors alongside confusingly stilted and bad performances, a lot of legit good scenes but overall it felt like a dud. The huge superweapon ship was a cool concept I guess but I don't think the execution of it was amazing and just generally felt inconsistent in quality through the season. And another huge doomsday ship, eh. Very common sci-fi trope. Justin Credible fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 9, 2023 18:51
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Honestly, I think there was only one unforgivable issue in season one: the whole Huntress plot was too drat long and convoluted and barely made sense in retrospect. The issue is the repercussions of that one terrible issue were felt through most of the show as that was supposed to be the core of the story and it was rotten. Gail and Seldon's plot was an interesting enough side plot, and it's kind of fine that it went nowhere for me. Gail rejecting all that is more interesting than her just going along with Seldon's plans. This obviously depends on where Gail's story goes, but as part of a story not yet told it was fine. The young emperor's color blind anxieties was also worryingly convoluted, but I thought the various crazy scenes we had along the way were compelling on their own and explained something about the character of the world and the Emperors. In contrast to the Terminus plot which was hanging its appeal on action adventure badassery which is boring as gently caress when it boils down to being captured and escaping over and over again, without learning anything about the world or characters in the process. And of course I think most people think the adult Emperor plot was actually pretty good. To me we have one good plot, two that are flawed but fine, and then the main plot lets everything down. It's not just that the themes of the main plot run directly counter to Asmov's, with a special individual being crucial to everything. That's kind of a nitpick in my view. This is a very different story than Asimov's novels, and that's potentially okay. The issue is the fact that there was so much screen time for so much wheel spinning and obscured motivations. If the Terminus story were simply more compelling season one would have been fine. The question is whether obscuring motivations and interminable action scenes are the only way these writers know how to tell a main story. If they can dial that back then there's hope. Otherwise, at least there might be interesting side stories to keep this watchable.
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Jan 9, 2023 19:33
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Tom Guycot posted:Not that I don't like action, I love a good action scene or film, and even agree theres places you could add some pizzaz in the original story when adapting it (the whole end of the second story in the books could have been actiony just fine), but I'll never understand the mindset of "people just talking would be boring". My Dinner with Andre is an absolutely captivating film thats just 2 people talking over dinner, The Man From Earth is an absolutely captivating film thats just a group of people sitting around talking in a room, heck 90% of something like even The Wire is people sitting around talking. I should have said this show being nothing but talking would be boring. We'd get philosophy 101 level long diatribes about power and math and so on. It would be Atlas Shurgged in space.
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Jan 9, 2023 21:07
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mods rename me to Hari Seldon's Salmon Ladder
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Jan 9, 2023 23:50
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twistedmentat posted:I should have said this show being nothing but talking would be boring. We'd get philosophy 101 level long diatribes about power and math and so on. Harry: All this time you have been asking, "Where is Harry Seldon?" Foundation Member: No we haven't, we thought you were dead. Harry: I am. But anyway, here I am, I am Harry Seldon! Other Harry: Me too!
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Jan 10, 2023 01:15
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Jerusalem posted:Harry: All this time you have been asking, "Where is Harry Seldon?" and then the next 4 episodes would be Harry saying how if the Empire doesn't just let everyone die, it deserves to collapse.
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Jan 10, 2023 03:20
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Rectal Death Adept posted:IN A WORLD God, imagine an adaptation of Brendan Graham's Prophet.
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Jan 11, 2023 03:49
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new trailer dropped. This looks so spectacularly stupid I can't wait to hate watch the poo poo out of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogReJyWgkBU
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May 11, 2023 17:14
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Robert Evans thought the first season was great, and he's apparently read the books, too. I don't know what to think anymore. Maybe we're just jaded and stubborn?
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May 11, 2023 17:41
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Just-In-Timeberlake posted:new trailer dropped. This looks so spectacularly stupid I can't wait to hate watch the poo poo out of this Hopefully they include more of the only entertaining part of first season, the adventures of Cleon(s). I want more Lee Pace on my screen.
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May 11, 2023 17:44
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DrThief posted:Hopefully they include more of the only entertaining part of first season, the adventures of Cleon(s). I want more Lee Pace on my screen. Apparently you're going to have Lee Pace fighting monsters if this trailer is anything to go by
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May 11, 2023 17:46
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Just-In-Timeberlake posted:Apparently you're going to have Lee Pace fighting monsters if this trailer is anything to go by Those are just Devolved Cleons, for more Cleon on Cleon action.
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May 11, 2023 18:07
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Phenotype posted:Robert Evans thought the first season was great, and he's apparently read the books, too. I don't know what to think anymore. Maybe we're just jaded and stubborn? I don't know who that is, and also this show went from amazing to poo poo in record time so maybe he only watched the first 4 episodes?
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May 11, 2023 18:18
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Phenotype posted:Robert Evans thought the first season was great, and he's apparently read the books, too. I don't know what to think anymore. Maybe we're just jaded and stubborn? Wait, the guy who thinks throwing axes at bagels is the height of comedy has lovely taste?
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May 11, 2023 18:34
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Just-In-Timeberlake posted:Apparently you're going to have Lee Pace fighting monsters if this trailer is anything to go by That is still going to be a thousand times better than anything that comes out of the Terminus plotlines. Also, was there a flying lady in the trailer? What is that about? Maybe I should read the novels again.
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May 11, 2023 20:39
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Phenotype posted:Robert Evans thought the first season was great, and he's apparently read the books, too. I don't know what to think anymore. Maybe we're just jaded and stubborn?
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May 11, 2023 20:41
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Phenotype posted:Robert Evans thought the first season was great, and he's apparently read the books, too. I don't know what to think anymore. Maybe we're just jaded and stubborn? I thought this was a bit when he mentioned it.
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May 12, 2023 06:04
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They put a dragon into Foundation. Sure, why not.
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May 12, 2023 06:12
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After rewatching the Season 2 trailer I'm convinced they absorbed the writer's room from Raised by Wolves and this is it's far future. I mean, there's even a sun god and sky serpents, devolved Cleons.
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May 12, 2023 06:16
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I have no interest in a second season after how awful the first was, nothing could convince me to change my min-Ninurta posted:After rewatching the Season 2 trailer I'm convinced they absorbed the writer's room from Raised by Wolves 
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May 12, 2023 06:36
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:They put a dragon into Foundation. Sure, why not. A Game of Cleons The Desolation of Cleon
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May 12, 2023 07:45
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Phenotype posted:Robert Evans thought the first season was great, and he's apparently read the books, too. I don't know what to think anymore. Maybe we're just jaded and stubborn? Plenty of people have this weird need to be contrarian when there is an overwhelming majority opinion about something. It's Cinema Discussos entire existence to try and look smart with a new perspective no one else has. Picking the worst trash from an rear end to write an eloquent defense of doesn't change that, at best, the series would be a forgettable C Tier science fiction property if they weren't also pretending it was a Foundation story.
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May 12, 2023 12:57
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Posters, I look forward to giving season 2 the MST3k treatment with you all, it's the only thing that made the first season bearable.
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May 12, 2023 13:29
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:They put a dragon into Foundation. Sure, why not. The only monsters I can think of from the books are the Nyak birds, which the Anacreonian kings would traditionally hunt for sport in aerial dogfights. They're never described in detail, though, and might be anything from huge alien flying beasts all the way down to a local name for perfectly ordinary geese. More likely the latter, given the backstory Asimov established in the later books.
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May 12, 2023 13:34
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calling it now, the Mule is going to wear leather and kickbox everyone
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May 12, 2023 13:47
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Rectal Death Adept posted:calling it now, the Mule is going to wear leather and kickbox everyone And it’s going to be an actual Mule.
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