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The units sent to Ukraine might not have that capability installed, for various reasons.
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May 22, 2023 00:34
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FrozenVent posted:The units sent to Ukraine might not have that capability installed, for various reasons. I guess, though I suspect it's more a case of "we have not given them access to that stream of data" - if they want to link together the gear they have received using Link-16 (or whatever is modern), that seems comparatively uncontroversial?
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May 22, 2023 00:38
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Link 16 is NATO not just the US so it should be exportable in this kind of situation.
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May 22, 2023 00:41
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Computer viking posted:This is from Kongsberg's sales brochure for NASAMS; cropped down because I'm trying to screenshot a two page pdf spread on a cellphone. I have some bad news for you about marketing materials.
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May 22, 2023 00:41
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Computer viking posted:This is from Kongsberg's sales brochure for NASAMS; cropped down because I'm trying to screenshot a two page pdf spread on a cellphone. I feel like NASAMS wouldn't have the range to make it that useful for Ukraine, but an F16 or a Patriot could deny a sizeable chunk of the Black Sea or possibly Crimea if they get targeting data from elsewhere. Maybe we need a goon project to crowdfund a fleet of AWACS planes for Ukraine.
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May 22, 2023 00:55
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It’s hilarious how quiet the goons working with those systems have gotten in the last page. Ukraine’s not getting that stuff. Because 
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May 22, 2023 01:12
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Serjeant Buzfuz posted:Link 16 is NATO not just the US so it should be exportable in this kind of situation. Patriot can’t just guide missiles using E-3 j messages.
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May 22, 2023 01:30
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Computer viking posted:This is from Kongsberg's sales brochure for NASAMS; cropped down because I'm trying to screenshot a two page pdf spread on a cellphone. It was my understanding that NASAMS was more of a replacement for Hawk than Patriot.
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May 22, 2023 01:42
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FrozenVent posted:It’s hilarious how quiet the goons working with those systems have gotten in the last page. Hey man we're not the war thunder forums!
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May 22, 2023 02:03
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Wasabi the J posted:Hey man we're not the war thunder forums! I'm sure NSA Wizard is relieved with how well we've been behaving lately.
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May 22, 2023 02:19
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Computer viking posted:This is from Kongsberg's sales brochure for NASAMS; cropped down because I'm trying to screenshot a two page pdf spread on a cellphone. That graphic is not showing an E3 providing a target lock for a NASAMS battery. It is just transmitting a datalink track so the NASAMS can cue their own targeting radar onto the contact and engage it themselves. Same way that an datalink can show a fighter where an aircraft is, but if they want to shoot an AMRAAM at it they will either need to light it up with its own radar or shoot it from such a close range that it can go pitbull right off the rail.
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May 22, 2023 03:05
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Storkrasch posted:Can Ukraine's patriot batteries and future F16s get targeting data from the various NATO AWACS planes flying around Ukraine? I.e. shoot down targets entirely without engaging their own radars? The best I've got is "you can't do it in DCS or Falcon BMS". I don't know if the AIM-120C even has the capability to use a radar other then that of the firing aircraft. You could "maddog" a missile at where AWACS says it is - firing without a missile lock hoping that the missile's own radar picks up the target - but that's mostly going to miss, or hit the wrong target since the missile has no IFF.
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May 22, 2023 03:10
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kill me now posted:That graphic is not showing an E3 providing a target lock for a NASAMS battery. It is just transmitting a datalink track so the NASAMS can cue their own targeting radar onto the contact and engage it themselves. Except maybe a flight of F35s.
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May 22, 2023 03:37
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Going pitbull sounds really cool. How do I go pitbull?
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May 22, 2023 03:55
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Borscht posted:Going pitbull sounds really cool. How do I go pitbull? Like this i think 
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May 22, 2023 04:20
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Borscht posted:Going pitbull sounds really cool. How do I go pitbull? First you have to know where you isn't.
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May 22, 2023 04:21
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Hyperlynx posted:You could "maddog" a missile at where AWACS says it is - firing without a missile lock hoping that the missile's own radar picks up the target - but that's mostly going to miss, or hit the wrong target since the missile has no IFF. Well that 747 shouldn't have been transiting through the circular track the Backfire's are taking over the Caspian, then, should it?
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May 22, 2023 04:23
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Borscht posted:Going pitbull sounds really cool. How do I go pitbull? Turn on your
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May 22, 2023 04:36
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Borscht posted:Going pitbull sounds really cool. How do I go pitbull? Get a bunch of goons to send him to Alaska. https://www.buzzfeed.com/katienotopoulos/pitbull-pays-for-his-tormentor-to-meet-him-in-an-a
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May 22, 2023 04:52
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Storkrasch posted:Can Ukraine's patriot batteries and future F16s get targeting data from the various NATO AWACS planes flying around Ukraine? I.e. shoot down targets entirely without engaging their own radars? Why would NATO be tracking Nessus's anus??
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May 22, 2023 07:31
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crusty posted:Why would NATO be tracking Nessus's anus?? track em if u got them, gotta track something
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May 22, 2023 07:45
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kill me now posted:That graphic is not showing an E3 providing a target lock for a NASAMS battery. It is just transmitting a datalink track so the NASAMS can cue their own targeting radar onto the contact and engage it themselves. mlmp08 posted:Patriot can’t just guide missiles using E-3 j messages. Fair enough. I guess we're getting into "the people who know aren't allowed to answer" territory, but it would make sense if Patriot needs the higher precision and timing of its own local radar and/or the seeker in the missile to actually hit the most slippery targets, anyway. And yes NASAMS is a Hawk replacement, it started life as NOAH, "NOrwegian Advanced Hawk", though there has been a lot of development since then. It's not massively long range. Computer viking fucked around with this message at 08:34 on May 22, 2023 |
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May 22, 2023 08:22
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The X-man cometh posted:Get a bunch of goons to send him to Alaska.    Russia: "We must not allow a Pitbull gap"
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May 22, 2023 08:26
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the video of that owns, like 2/3 of the town turned out for his show and he got probably the warmest welcome there that he's ever gotten anywhere
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May 22, 2023 08:34
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you know goons are old not by their regdate but by their ability to get 3-4 character twitter handles
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May 22, 2023 08:44
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Computer viking posted:Fair enough. I guess we're getting into "the people who know aren't allowed to answer" territory, but it would make sense if Patriot needs the higher precision and timing of its own local radar and/or the seeker in the missile to actually hit the most slippery targets, anyway. Going by the AIM-120 I think it's just more likely that the missiles wouldn't be designed to be controlled by more than one radar. That would be expensive. I wouldn't think it's necessarily the case of the F-16 or Patriot needing a better radar signal from their own radar (though that's probably part of it), it's more that they can't launch a missile and hand control of it over to someone else because that would be complicated and expensive to do. I think.
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May 22, 2023 09:39
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drat they banned beer? https://twitter.com/marcbennetts1/status/1660584407432921089 putin don't you know what happened the last time russia did this
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May 22, 2023 11:16
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Hyperlynx posted:Going by the AIM-120 I think it's just more likely that the missiles wouldn't be designed to be controlled by more than one radar. That would be expensive. How does this work for the missiles with their own tracking systems (like the AIM-120), anyway? The launcher has to be sending a stream of target data to the missile, and at some point the missile takes over tracking on its own - presumably when it's much closer, given the differences in radar capability. If the launcher is something like an F-35, the targeting data could perhaps be from another F-35, but as long as the plane does the work of integrating the sources the missile should be blissfully unaware. Theoretically that same approach could work for other combinations than F-35 + F-35 (like Patriot+something) , but by now I'm stacking so many presumptions on top of each other it's getting a bit ridiculous. 
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May 22, 2023 11:25
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It's pretty telling that some people stopped commenting on just that.
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May 22, 2023 11:35
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The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where AWACS isn't. By subtracting where it is from where AWACS isn't, or where it isn't from where AWACS is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation.
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May 22, 2023 12:19
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So you're saying it's in a well actually?
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May 22, 2023 13:05
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Belgorod happening to some extent it seems. Russians fighting for Ukraine seem to be causing a ton of mayhem. https://twitter.com/ThomasVLinge/status/1660620002196684800?t=KBEIO-N2Y0ggxSyubWiNbA&s=19 E: added tweet InAndOutBrennan fucked around with this message at 13:40 on May 22, 2023 |
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May 22, 2023 13:32
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https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/1660623779943284737 https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/1660624817756729348 I can't imagine this being a large force but that brings up the question where the hell the Russian defenses are.
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May 22, 2023 13:36
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Lavrov, a long time ago, to the idiot British Minister of Foreign Affairs: "are you suggesting that Russian troops cannot move freely throughout the Belgorod and <some other> regions?" Ukraine, long after: "actually, quite the opposite"
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May 22, 2023 13:45
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Hyperlynx posted:Going by the AIM-120 I think it's just more likely that the missiles wouldn't be designed to be controlled by more than one radar. That would be expensive. Public sources say the AIM-120D has internal GPS guidance and the D as well as previous versions have had datalink capabilities so that it can be guided from surrogate platforms to a point where the missile goes active and targets independently. Not all AMRAAMs have this option and I have no idea if NASAMS integrates this capability, but it exists in the AIM-120 platform.
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May 22, 2023 13:52
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Hyperlynx posted:The best I've got is "you can't do it in DCS or Falcon BMS". I don't know if the AIM-120C even has the capability to use a radar other then that of the firing aircraft. It's unlikely. Using third party radar for targeting is the kind of new capability that is being considered for next-gen systems, and the few missiles that can do it (for example, SM-6) get heavily marketed for it, as are planes with radars that have the capability of guiding in weapons from different platforms. (F-35) I don't think most of the current stuff can do it, because if they could, their vendors would be marketing that capability. The idea clearly isn't too because Raytheon is screaming from the rooftops that the SM-6 can do it.Laughing Zealot posted:I can't imagine this being a large force but that brings up the question where the hell the Russian defenses are. They are in Ukraine. Russia has almost entirely denuded everything else and moved their professional soldiers into Ukraine. The long land border between northern Ukraine and Russia is defended basically by cops and the idea that surely Ukraine wouldn't attack actual Russian soil. I'm about 100% certain that the purpose of this attack is to try to force Russia to move troops to man the border, and thus thinning out the actual line where Ukraine wants to attack later.
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May 22, 2023 14:54
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crusty posted:Why would NATO be tracking Nessus's anus??
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May 22, 2023 14:58
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Herstory Begins Now posted:the video of that owns, like 2/3 of the town turned out for his show and he got probably the warmest welcome there that he's ever gotten anywhere Oh yeah it was fun to read about how Pitbull paid for Thorpe to also go and was nice to him, and that Pitbull made an effort to be cool about the whole thing. https://www.somethingawful.com/twitter-tuesday/thorpe-meets-pitbull/1/
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May 22, 2023 15:26
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lol, and I cannot stress enough, lmao if this is how they're saying that https://twitter.com/hardcastIe/status/1660656736867426315
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May 22, 2023 15:44
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Rude Dude With Tude posted:lol, and I cannot stress enough, lmao if this is how they're saying that They really are lucky that Russia is so dumb.
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May 22, 2023 15:52
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