|
Mantis42 posted:They balance it out by having the battles be shallower than usual. The games are still near the peak for the series but variety is overstated when you can lump most of the units into like 5 types and use them the same way on the same maps. idk, its like playing Warcraft 3 but with thousands of soldiers instead of 20.
|
#
?
May 28, 2023 21:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 19:47 |
|
|
Danann posted:https://store.steampowered.com/app/489630/Warhammer_40000_Gladius__Relics_of_War/ - Warham Gladius is available free until June 1. It's an AoW-type game but Warhams. played it for a few hours and its pretty neat, i really like how if you rename a units the name shows up above it though it has the same effect as hoi4 where i get so absorbed in it i forget to eat
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2023 00:04
|
|
|
Mantis42 posted:They balance it out by having the battles be shallower than usual. The games are still near the peak for the series but variety is overstated when you can lump most of the units into like 5 types and use them the same way on the same maps. I'm struggling to think of a nonfantasy tw game that has more than about 5 types of units? pretty much always skirmishers/archers, swordsmen, spearmen, cavalry, catapult/artillery sometimes horse archers or w/e, chariots
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2023 00:43
|
|
|
Yeah calling the battles shallow is kind of goofy. The peak of Total War complexity prior to warhammer was napoleon TW with all it's attendant horrors.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2023 00:46
|
|
|
im glad the total war guys have gotten into both sides of wargaming Historical and Fantasy
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2023 01:10
|
|
|
It's not that the historical games have more unit types, it's that the Warhammer's increased variety isn't as much as it seems when you first start playing.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2023 01:38
|
|
|
eh, there are optimal army compositions for each faction but where's the fun in that. Sometimes characters buff up meme units until they are incredible, sometimes you want to make a themed army. Sometimes your dinosaur carrying an orbital bombardment cannon nukes a heavy weapons regiment of rats with heavy gatlings.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2023 02:23
|
|
|
Tankbuster posted:eh, there are optimal army compositions for each faction but where's the fun in that. Sometimes characters buff up meme units until they are incredible, sometimes you want to make a themed army. Sometimes your dinosaur carrying an orbital bombardment cannon nukes a heavy weapons regiment of rats with heavy gatlings. there was a big mod i played that made the factions feel really diverse but it also like doubled the per unit size of orcs and tripled skaven so it ate performance up pretty hard if they were present made dwarves and empire feel really good with firepower, lizardppl rip through stuff, prevents stacks of more than so many of a unit so no hypermeta armies of 17 gunners & 2 arty as skaven or all dark elf archers or whatever & the Lore powerful heries felt sufficiently strong, can't remember the name of it tho added more campaign flavor than the game has initially too it had some bloaty additions but altogether made it better, idk if they made it for wh3 but probably
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2023 05:04
|
|
|
its important to RP your faction choice in total war warhammer imo
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2023 09:27
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/PdxInteractive/status/1663216892725678082?s=20
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2023 17:55
|
|
|
I thought that meme was supposed to be things that obviously arent true
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2023 19:05
|
|
|
KomradeX posted:I thought that meme was supposed to be things that obviously arent true well, real yeonmi park does that. the specific meme is describing things that are true but hyperbolized as if it were reported by radio free america. sometimes outright made up stuff is in there but the humor is that it is usually pointing out things that are true and not really considered weird but can be RFA'd to sound insane i think this is the original or at least a very early one and it is an extremely accurate stereotype of austin 
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2023 19:11
|
|
|
I'm about a dozen turns into a game of Mortal Empires in Total Warhammer 2, playing as Gelb Balthasar of the Empire the most interesting battle so far was this event where some far off province asks for help fighting off the Skaven, and you get a choice to send a relief force to help them, and if you say yes you get thrown into battle defending castle walls against a swarm of the ratmen they brought with them a Hell Pit Abomination, and I mouthed out loud "what the gently caress is that?! how do you stop it?!" and if you throw enough warm bodies at the loving thing you actually can hurt it but my god the fight came down to the wire. The only unit left standing at the end was the captain of the relief force and a dozen Handgunners on the home front I've been fighting the Greenskins and I think I'm getting the hang of it - they don't have much cavalry so I go with regular swordsmen instead of spears for the melee line, and then I use massed crossbow fire to crush a flank and roll it up from one side of the battlefield to the other. It helps that the AI is fairly aggressive and battles don't feel as awkward as I remember from other earlier Total Wars I think I'm starting to get why this game is so popular, beyond just the branding
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 02:12
|
|
|
i watch my friends play it sometimes and everything looks good except the god loving awful siege maps
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 02:25
|
|
|
yeah this is just reality lol
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 02:45
|
|
|
I think the joke is just that the reality is just as ridiculous as a Yeonmi Park story, don't think about it too hard.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 02:48
|
|
|
imo you should think about it the correct amount, which is a bit more than that
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 02:50
|
|
|
Cuttlefush posted:i watch my friends play it sometimes and everything looks good except the god loving awful siege maps lol yeah I used autoresolve on the first siege map I was going to be the attacker on because having been the defender twice it just looked like a mess
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 02:58
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:lol yeah I used autoresolve on the first siege map I was going to be the attacker on because having been the defender twice it just looked like a mess yeah... it's bizarre how bad they look and play considering TW siege maps have been pretty good in almost every iteration (with pathing and ai issues). most of the siege maps in warhammer total war just look insane. although are some normal fortications.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 03:05
|
|
|
Total War had good sieges as recently as Three Kingdoms, and great ones as recently as Attila and (from what I've heard) Thrones of Britannia. Not sure why they can't get it right with Warhammer. Maybe the flying units or something.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 03:46
|
|
|
I wonder if part of it is that they don't want to make detailed towns for how different all the factions are
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 03:48
|
|
|
This is bullshit. Everyone knows that swedes play Dota. Even had a song about it!gradenko_2000 posted:I'm about a dozen turns into a game of Mortal Empires in Total Warhammer 2, playing as Gelb Balthasar of the Empire greenskin cavalry is a joke until they start sending orcs riding piggus after your rear end. The trick with total war is to make sieges that are simultaneously not cheesy, fun, shouldn't be too much of a meatgrinder etc. Essentially trying to make a square with two points.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 03:59
|
|
|
I feel like the only real problem with shogun 2 sieges is that the AI was garbage at them and the maps were a little too small and repetitive
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 04:01
|
|
|
The ai has pathfinding issues and struggles attacking walls appropriately, so they bypassed that with free ladders for (most) units, but that has it's own problems: Honestly the warhammer ones wouldn't be terrible but sometimes a routing enemy will retreat further into your base and then recover and start capturing poo poo which just on its own pushes them into Bad territory. The new wall-less sieges they cooked up for 3 were solid but people didn't like having to attack multiple points at once (and to be fair, pathfinding meant a lot of babysitting) and not being able to just sit back and shoot the defenders to death, so now they're pretty rare
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 04:16
|
|
|
Shogun 2 sieges let every unit scale the walls of the basic first storey of the fort, which gave the computer AI at least somewhat of a chance. If they had a ton of units attacking and you had 3 defenders they didn't get bottlenecked at a gate and they could sometimes actually win.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 04:18
|
|
|
Yeah the problems were just that on offense you could shoot the defenders to death on small castles and on defense the AI would send its troops piece meal, including waiting until their entire army had been wiped out before sending in their general by himself
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 04:30
|
|
|
The AI was dumb but it was fun as hell.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 04:34
|
|
|
thats total war sieges in a nutshell. Of course you can take the contrarian take that sieges are supposed to be gruelling messes and a massive time investment so them being a pain in the rear end is IMMERSIVE.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 04:35
|
|
|
someone needs to do a game that's entirely focused on sieges and is basically a city builder
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 04:38
|
|
|
That's the Stronghold series, although from what I've heard the newer entries are all bad.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 04:40
|
|
|
The ideal siege for players is if an AI wanders up to a maxed out fort with a bazillion guys and throws them at the walls for 40 minutes and you feel epic. This doesn't really happen, because the campaign AI is pretty risk averse with sieges. Instead, most player siege defences involve the AI pouncing on tiny garrisons, forcing you to play in desperation mode. This means pulling all the stupid TW tricks, like ungarrisoning the walls or kiting 40 catapult shots with your hero. It's fun maybe once or twice. What you end up missing is a change to actually play with your toys, because top tier defences scare the AI so bad that it never wants to face them. I distinctly remember that in Fall of the Samurai, I tried to get the AI to attack a gatling gun fort, and to do so I had to strip the garrison to two militia before they would charge in with a full stack. The problem is twofold. One is that the campaign AI is using the (somehow always) flawed autocalc math to determine when it should attack. Two is more fundamental, it's that CA hasn't really decided what its campaign AI is for. Is it supposed to try and play the game by the same rules as a human, or is it supposed to be a punching bag with varying resistance? Right now it just flip flops between modes, which is just annoying. A common manifestation of this is when the AI declares war on you and then retreats its armies whenever you actually attack them. They do some tweaking for different factions, but they need some kind of directed effort when it comes to this, but the thing with a bloated company like CA is that they definitely don't do that.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 04:44
|
|
|
Tankbuster posted:thats total war sieges in a nutshell. Of course you can take the contrarian take that sieges are supposed to be gruelling messes and a massive time investment so them being a pain in the rear end is IMMERSIVE. That's how they work in AEGOD Wars of Succession, which is appropriate, but lol forts in Empire and Napoleon were the low point of the series imo
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 05:08
|
|
|
Mantis42 posted:That's the Stronghold series, although from what I've heard the newer entries are all bad. Side note, every RTS needs a Crusader Trail mode. The big majority of players don't touch multiplayer anyways, you want all those fancy MP maps being wasted? Throw a whole bunch of scenarios together. You vs super rich guy. Team match but your team is boomers and the enemy all rush. You spawn surrounded in the middle but it's an FFA. Go nuts
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 05:26
|
|
|
The AI is smart enough to know that attacking a fort is a losing proposition but cannot be expected to be smart enough to be actually super hypercompetent at actually sieging. It's a game design problem, something CA found out how to solve in Thrones of Britannia and later 3k.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 06:14
|
|
|
Tankbuster posted:thats total war sieges in a nutshell. Of course you can take the contrarian take that sieges are supposed to be gruelling messes and a massive time investment so them being a pain in the rear end is IMMERSIVE. In the Warhams universe not really, they just need to be cool and epic imo. In the historical TWs yeah they should be gruelling slogs, but primarily over the multi-turn affairs that are now completely not a gameplay mechanic. The actual siege part is automated with no interactions beyond waiting a lot of turns, or storming a castle/fort. They should really add some siege mechanics beyond constructing siege engines to the strategic layer imo. StashAugustine posted:someone needs to do a game that's entirely focused on sieges and is basically a city builder The original Stronghold was cool. Everything that came after wasn't imo. Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 08:40 on May 30, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 08:37
|
|
|
Orange Devil posted:
Imagine my disappointment going from Medieval, in which sieges starved defenders and also attrited attackers every turn, to Medieval 2, where not only did that not happen, but also the AI would always force a battle on the last turn. Thus, the whole "siege for several turns" thing was an utterly pointless waste of time instead of a legitimate strategy.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 10:49
|
|
|
Tankbuster posted:The AI is smart enough to know that attacking a fort is a losing proposition but cannot be expected to be smart enough to be actually super hypercompetent at actually sieging. It's a game design problem, something CA found out how to solve in Thrones of Britannia and later 3k. I would like to give CA credit and say that they looked at history and saw that assaulting fortifications was a last resort, but I don't think that's it.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 15:15
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:I'm about a dozen turns into a game of Mortal Empires in Total Warhammer 2, playing as Gelb Balthasar of the Empire it is hands down the best Total War has been since Shogun 2. the game rules
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 15:17
|
|
|
Frosted Flake posted:I would like to give CA credit and say that they looked at history and saw that assaulting fortifications was a last resort, but I don't think that's it. the mechanics they sprinkled in the game reinforce the former idea. You had limited supplies of foodstuffs that would eventually run out and cause massive attrition. Its just the AI will never attack unless it's sure of winning, which is also another reason why you have the infamous attila bug where "AI marched their army just out my movement range." End of the day people want a fun game with a little sprinkling of history rather than groggy awesomeness ala Field of Glory. John Charity Spring posted:it is hands down the best Total War has been since Shogun 2. the game rules It has the added benefit of actually competent AI.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 16:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 19:47 |
|
|
Zeppelin Insanity posted:Imagine my disappointment going from Medieval, in which sieges starved defenders and also attrited attackers every turn, to Medieval 2, where not only did that not happen, but also the AI would always force a battle on the last turn. Thus, the whole "siege for several turns" thing was an utterly pointless waste of time instead of a legitimate strategy. ive been playing a lot of medieval 2 recently and found the opposite especially in the early-game scramble for rebel settlements being able to send just enough units to defeat the garrison when they sally instead of having to send more (and take heavier losses) to assault allows you to be a lot more efficient with your limited amount of units
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2023 16:30
|
|