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Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?
I feel like the competition is weaker when I get up early (5-7AM Eastern).

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CatstropheWaitress
Nov 26, 2017

Glad to see using wildcards to get the banned cards an hour before it took place still worked to get free ones. Yay wildcards.

Rap Game Goku
Apr 2, 2008

Word to your moms, I came to drop spirit bombs


Rinkles posted:

I feel like the competition is weaker when I get up early (5-7AM Eastern).

Yeah, my record is better in not-prime time hours. Also in the middle of the month, when people aren't rushing rank

resistentialism
Aug 13, 2007

I was down to one and five at some point in the two games I won.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo
Why did the game randomly give me 4x Kumano?

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!


Clever Betty
They removed haste for the alchemy version

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo
I think I would have preferred 4x uncommon wildcards instead.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



i always lol when i open an old pack and the alchemy rebalanced card is peeking out from behind the real one

babypolis
Nov 4, 2009

sooooo how long till the next set?

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo
Wilds of Eldraine in September.

babypolis
Nov 4, 2009

well gently caress

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



The summer LOTR set will be draftable on arena and it doesn't have word salad alchemy mechanics so maybe it will have more legs than Baldur's Gate, which even Jim Davis couldn't take to mythic for content

Bugsy
Jul 15, 2004

I'm thumpin'. That's
why they call me
'Thumper'.


Slippery Tilde

babypolis posted:

sooooo how long till the next set?

lord of the rings in 3 weeks, but it isn't standard legal.

thespaceinvader
Mar 30, 2011

The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!
I actually managed to draft a set to rare-completion for the first time (after spending the wildcards from the bans lol) so I'm feeling pretty good about at least a couple more MOM premier drafts before set change.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



lmao yes, after dozens of games with this deck the flipside of Invasion of Ikoria is finally relevant

Grifter
Jul 24, 2003

I do this technique called a suplex. You probably haven't heard of it, it's pretty obscure.
Gold, Gems and Drafting

I am a F2P player and I almost exclusively premier draft on arena. I spend a lot of time thinking about currency because I like drafting and want to keep doing it. I also want to encourage others to draft, even people who are new to it. Here's a little analysis that may help you:

Ratios
Premier drafting costs one of the following two options:
  • 1500 Gems
  • 10,000 gold
Naturally there isn't a super easy ratio between those two. It's in Wizard's favor to create confusing ratios between the pay currency and the "free" currency. In this case the ratio between the two is that each gem is worth 6.6̅ gold. This can inform the rest of our thinking.

Most of the time you can make around 1K gold per day on arena. The easiest way is your daily quest (either 500 or 750 gold) and you can get 550 gold from your first four wins. Using the ratio, you can also think of it as getting 150 gems. You can even take this one step further and say that it is around 10% of a draft, or a draft once every ten days.

Draft Rewards
But how can you turn gold into gems? There's no way to straight up purchase it. The answer is drafting. When you premier draft, you spend gold and the rewards always come in the form of gems. Here is the reward table:

code:
Games Won	7	6	5	4	3	2	1	0
Gems Won	2200	1800	1600	1400	1000	250	100	50
Prize Packs	6	5	4	3	2	2	1	1
Packs Drafted	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	3
From a pure currency perspective the only thing you care about here is gems, because gems buy more drafts. However you should keep in mind the other things you gain as well. The better you do, the more packs you get. You also have a sort of "hidden" prize in that while drafting you open three packs and you keep those. This is not quite the same thing as an actual prize pack because your selections of cards picked will most likely lean towards winning rather than getting rarer cards - I've taken a lot of commons on P1P1. But it's not nothing! Packs in the store cost 200 gems. Using that, let's look at the effective prices "paid" when you draft and think of it as purchasing packs.
code:
Games Won		7	6	5	4	3	2	1	0
Gems Won		2200	1800	1600	1400	1000	250	100	50
Prize Packs		6	5	4	3	2	2	1	1
Packs Drafted		3	3	3	3	3	3	3	3
Total Packs Gained	9	8	7	6	5	5	4	4
Price Paid Per Pack	N/A	N/A	N/A	16.67	100.00	250.00	350.00	362.50
Cost to Buy Pack(s)	1800	1600	1400	1200	1000	1000	800	800
Pack Savings		1800	1600	1400	1100	500	-250	-600	-650
I think people underrate this because of a focus purely on currency. The way to look at this is that you get packs and those packs would cost resources if you got them in the store. If you do well at drafting, you get packs either cheap or free. An example in this table is 4 wins. If you get 4 wins, you get a total of 6 packs, 3 from prizes and 3 during the draft. You effectively "spent" 100 gems to get those packs. That means for each pack you spent 16.67 gems, which adds up to a total savings of 1100 gems if you had purchased them from the store. You don't even fall into the negatives until you get down to a record of 2 wins. Even then, you shouldn't think of things purely in terms of currency. You got packs and got gems and had fun drafting!

This is all kind of a diversion because I want people to try to appreciate everything they get out of drafting. Let's look at currency directly.
code:
Games Won	7		6		5	4	3		2		1		0
Gems Won	2200		1800		1600	1400	1000		250		100		50
Gem Difference	700		300		100	-100	-500		-1250		-1400		-1450
Gold Difference	4,666.67	2,000.00	666.67	-666.67	-3,333.33	-8,333.33	-9,333.33	-9,666.67
Days Impact	4.67		2.00		0.67	-0.67	-3.33		-8.33		-9.33		-9.67
This cuts out all the pack stuff and looks at currency. Here are some definitions:
  • Gem Difference - This shows how many gems you gain or lose as a result of this outcome. For positive outcomes it does not include you recovering your original stake, it only shows how much you actually gained.
  • Gold Difference - This is just a translation (using the ratio) of the gems gained or lost to gold. There is no literal gold to gain as an outcome.
  • Days Impact is an extension of the idea that you can gain around 1K gold a day. The idea here is how many days it will take you to recover if you lose resources, or how many days you would "gain" with more positive outcomes.
The breakpoints look really stark here. There's a huge gap of five days between two wins and three wins. It's also interesting to look at how the best outcome is less than half of the worst - you can pull down two seven win runs and still be behind when you get one 0-3. The key is to try get at least three wins.

Can you get three wins?

Yes, definitely. I'm a bad drafter. I chose to kill Sheoldred instead of winning. Despite that, I have a 60% winrate in MOM premier draft. 60% is good enough to hover between 3-4 wins consistently. You can hang in there and as long as you can land in the middle you'll be able to keep drafting. Also you may want to try multiple accounts.

Olive Branch
May 26, 2010

There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.

Grifter posted:

Good freaking stuff that should be read by everyone.
To add to Grifter's excellent post, I'd like to tell new players who are joining Arena (either because it's now on Steam or you somehow stumbled upon it on social media) to join the official Goon Magic Discord server. If you want to start drafting but are scared you'll waste your hard-earned currency, then hit up the @Limited crew and ask for help! Most of the drafting crowd's around in the afternoon (EST) and weekends, and if you can stream your screen and draft, we can help you with the picks of cards, as well as backseat and watch over as you play your games.

There have been several times where I've seen lines the people streaming haven't, and even more times they've seen me about to make a mistake and stopped me from throwing away games. To add to that, there have been also plenty of occasions where debates on plays and card picks have affected my skill as a Magic player and drafter in a very positive way. It's thanks to the crew at the Discord server that I've been able to rare-complete (and sometimes mythic-complete!) every standard set since I started playing at the end of the Adventures in Forgotten Realms set. I'm by no means an infinite-capable drafter and my win rate hovers between 50%-60% in both Premier and Traditional Draft, but going F2P and getting a decent collection each set is more than doable if you're willing to give drafting a go.

Also, consider switching from Premier Draft to Traditional Draft by the time you hit Platinum rank: the competition in Platinum, Diamond, and of course Mythic is very stiff, and sometimes it's worth trying to go for an unranked Traditional Draft if you are confident in your sideboarding and BO3 skills. The lack of a hand smoother for lands in BO3 means variance plays an even bigger role, but at least you won't always get blindsided by a bomb rare in BO3 you couldn't play around, unlike in BO1!

CatstropheWaitress
Nov 26, 2017

Used the ban WC's to finally get playsets for a Jaxis/Ratadrabik deck. :dance:



Deck's a blast. In the high-removal environment, Skrelv + Surge really come through to protect the early board. If Ratadra isn't answered immediately removal doesn't do much, as killing any one creature just ends up multiplying them like rabbits. Granted, play queue hasn't been putting me against the more competitive builds.

Still playing around with Junji/Mirror Box/Graveyard Tress. Graveyard was added to give a three drop with a little lifegain, but not sure I need it. Feel like there's probably a better three drop I'm missing that could slot in there.

I mean poo poo, look at these last turns:
https://www.17lands.com/user/game_replay/20230530/667e2533d59045658edbb15c45045efb/0
https://www.17lands.com/user/game_replay/20230530/b6f1c712f04d45f0bfb8f5a60650d0bc/0

CatstropheWaitress fucked around with this message at 01:19 on May 31, 2023

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
Pulled a card I didn't remember from Brothers War, Over the Top. I found some combo decks for 2022 standard, but they all use Fable but we've had a few sets since then, might try swapping them for some battles. I don't know if there's a good way to make Over the Top work in standard but is there a better path for a slower monored deck in general? Red gets some cool higher mana stuff I don't usually get to mess with.

Also got Etali'd a few times today in draft and I gotta try and build around that dino, fun way to make a scary dino.

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE
Lipstick Apathy
I haven't played standard in quite a while so I made a deck to see what things would look like post-ban. Very first opponent was running a deck with a playset of Fable, Bankbuster, and Despair. Guess they wanna get that out of their system eh?

flatluigi
Apr 23, 2008

here come the planes
so i know the LTR set's coming to arena apparently in full, but do we know if that includes the reprints that are coming with the commander decks? i doubt we're gonna get trailblazer boots and ensnaring bridge and rings of brighthearth and loving wasteland in historic but it'd be cool if gladiator could gently caress with those

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

flatluigi posted:

so i know the LTR set's coming to arena apparently in full, but do we know if that includes the reprints that are coming with the commander decks? i doubt we're gonna get trailblazer boots and ensnaring bridge and rings of brighthearth and loving wasteland in historic but it'd be cool if gladiator could gently caress with those

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/collecting-the-lord-of-the-rings-tales-of-middle-earth

MTG Arena Legality:

The Lord of the Rings: Tales of Middle-earth (LTR): Alchemy and Historic
The Lord of the Rings: Tales of Middle-earth Commander (LTC): Only Trailblazer's Boots will be available on MTG Arena

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?
The free midnight hunt sealed was a new experience for me. First time I’ve played limited without knowing anything about the format ahead of time (minus the cards I knew from standard).

Retcon
Jun 23, 2010

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

The summer LOTR set will be draftable on arena and it doesn't have word salad alchemy mechanics so maybe it will have more legs than Baldur's Gate, which even Jim Davis couldn't take to mythic for content
Alchemy Baldur's Gate was a good draft format imo, especially after the rebalancing. Specialize was indeed too wordy but otherwise it felt fine.

kalel
Jun 19, 2012

MrL_JaKiri posted:

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/collecting-the-lord-of-the-rings-tales-of-middle-earth

MTG Arena Legality:

The Lord of the Rings: Tales of Middle-earth (LTR): Alchemy and Historic
The Lord of the Rings: Tales of Middle-earth Commander (LTC): Only Trailblazer's Boots will be available on MTG Arena

fuuuck youuu

at least put them in the game. ban them immediately in every format, sure, but at least let me play wasteland in the "everything's legal lol" midweek events

Boxman
Sep 27, 2004

Big fan of :frog:


I just opened Complete the Circuit P1P1 two drafts in a row, and two drafts prior saw it pick 3. I think about how this is as likely as me seeing Sunfall P1P1 twice and sob quietly.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



0-5 with my sealed for mwm lol, giving up on this one i guess

edit: complaining works, 1-5 and cleared an opponent's teferi lol

CharlieFoxtrot fucked around with this message at 21:10 on May 31, 2023

flatluigi
Apr 23, 2008

here come the planes

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

0-5 with my sealed for mwm lol, giving up on this one i guess

post your pool

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



flatluigi posted:

post your pool


https://sealeddeck.tech/b1vLuy2bxT
Tried to make UG slogurk work for 3 games but there's not enough for it and I have no 2-drops lol, settled into WB Fleshtaker/Slaughter

Squiggly
Jan 25, 2006

I'm Your Huckleberry
I remember drafting bladebrand during this set and posting here and someone was like "that's a garbage card" and they were very right

flatluigi
Apr 23, 2008

here come the planes

CharlieFoxtrot posted:


https://sealeddeck.tech/b1vLuy2bxT
Tried to make UG slogurk work for 3 games but there's not enough for it and I have no 2-drops lol, settled into WB Fleshtaker/Slaughter

i would've tried izzet since you have a thermo alchemist and two skreelixes. at the very least though get those rotten reunions out of there lol

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

CharlieFoxtrot posted:


https://sealeddeck.tech/b1vLuy2bxT
Tried to make UG slogurk work for 3 games but there's not enough for it and I have no 2-drops lol, settled into WB Fleshtaker/Slaughter
Why are you not playing hobbling zombie, the two Arrogant Outlaws, and maybe a Crawl? Bladebrand is awful, you definitely don't need two Reunions, Hedgewitch's Mask is unplayable, Cutpurse is terrible, Behemoth is mopey.

flatluigi posted:

i would've tried izzet since you have a thermo alchemist and two skreelixes. at the very least though get those rotten reunions out of there lol
Doable, tho a little light on the burn spells. Blue has some excellent cards (Organ Hoarder ofc, Flips are great, Skaab Wrangler is phenomenal) but also some stinkers (Secrets of the Key). Still worth a try, it's free after all. Definitely more synergistic than the WB pile.

Ftr Green has a playable set there (Pestilent Wolf, Bird Admirer, Sighting, Rise) but it's not exceptional, I wouldn't consider it.

babypolis
Nov 4, 2009

flatluigi posted:

i would've tried izzet since you have a thermo alchemist and two skreelixes. at the very least though get those rotten reunions out of there lol

The red is super shallow, blue is pretty lacking as well and the skreelixes were pretty bad iirc.

I think WB is right, but you are playing some very bad cards and leaving some good ones in the SB

https://sealeddeck.tech/5wAwqAD1H0

I think this should be a lot better? more explosive potential AND value as well. i wouldnt say its a good deck, this seems like a pretty weak pool but I have no memory of what MID sealed was like, if I played any at all

flatluigi
Apr 23, 2008

here come the planes
i misremembered skreelixes as being 2UR instead of 3UR

Grifter
Jul 24, 2003

I do this technique called a suplex. You probably haven't heard of it, it's pretty obscure.
This phantom event reminds me why draft is so much better than sealed.

Lone Goat
Apr 16, 2003

When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.




Grifter posted:

This phantom event reminds me why draft is so much better than sealed.

no complaints here




Probably could have splashed something but TOO LAZY
https://www.17lands.com/deck/8108203e13f14184b226b303d56861d9

I'd keep playing and seeing how many wins I can rack up, but wrestling is about to start

Hammer Bro.
Jul 7, 2007

THUNDERDOME LOSER

I rather like that phantom sealed lets me dick around with sealed and not worry if the cards go bad, and because it's a limited time even there's enough competition for when things go well.

They struck a decent balance with the events being just infrequent enough to keep an engaged user base.

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?
Between Soldiers, Control, Esper Legends, and “Dragons”, there’s suddenly so much blue white in standard.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
First attempt at janky homebrew not-aggro Red deck... I won a few and they were pretty fun games, won different ways each time. Deck kind of reminds me of the meme monored Atraxa, about as unreliable too haha. Exile and jail cards can really slow down the draw and ramp and not enough removal. I ran into someone doing an R/G Etali deck with some treasure ramp and it seemed clearly better at getting out Etali. Topiary dino is really good for that sort of thing.

quote:

Deck
4 Goldhound (SNC) 108
24 Mountain (DMU) 272
4 Sticky Fingers (SNC) 124
2 Phoenix Chick (DMU) 140
2 Riveteers Requisitioner (SNC) 121
4 Professional Face-Breaker (SNC) 116
2 Atsushi, the Blazing Sky (NEO) 134
1 Big Score (SNC) 102
4 Etali, Primal Conqueror (MOM) 137
2 Play with Fire (MID) 154
3 Lightning Strike (DMU) 137
1 Chandra, Dressed to Kill (VOW) 149
1 Mechanized Warfare (BRO) 139
1 Rebel Salvo (ONE) 144
1 Reckless Stormseeker (MID) 157
1 Seismic Wave (NEO) 161
3 Urabrask's Forge (ONE) 153

Edit:
Urborg Scavengers seems good. Trespasser has better protection, but she can't turn into 9/9 death touch flyer while chewing your graveyard.

Khanstant fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Jun 1, 2023

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Algid
Oct 10, 2007


CharlieFoxtrot posted:


https://sealeddeck.tech/b1vLuy2bxT
Tried to make UG slogurk work for 3 games but there's not enough for it and I have no 2-drops lol, settled into WB Fleshtaker/Slaughter

Your deck would immediately improve just by no thought cramming in the top 23 cards by rating in BW instead, maybe adjusting for your curve a bit. Basically exactly what Simon said except I would try cramming in the 3rd silversmith as well.

You do look at the data according to your previous posts so I'm just confused why you're playing a bunch of bad cards instead of good cards.

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