TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

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Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

I've seen people have somewhat overinflated expectations of what a TTRPG is going to be based on critical role, but it's pretty rare and most people understand that their games aren't going to be smoothly edited and have everyone highly engaged and ready to go.

Complaining about APs is just weird to me.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 02:07

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# ? May 26, 2024 05:56

Impermanent: Apr 1, 2010

Ok thank you all for clarifying. I have reclassified critical role as "completely benign but provokes deep-seated rage in a particular kind of maladjusted twitter user" alongside the McElroy Brothers and hank and John Green.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 02:10

Randalor: Sep 4, 2011

Ominous Jazz posted:

why are multiple people comparing actual plays to porn oh my god

Buddy, what do you think the og porn was?

# ? Jun 1, 2023 02:19

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Randalor posted:

Buddy, what do you think the og porn was?

"This Ain't L'Arriv�e d'un train en gare de La Ciotat XXX"

# ? Jun 1, 2023 02:23

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; коммунизм хранится в яичках

Thanlis posted:

Shadowrun 1e had color plates in 1989; I think it was softcover.

Both, IIRC. I have hardcover 1st and 2nd edition and a couple softcover 2nds that the color pages fell out of years ago.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 03:09

MuscaDomestica: Apr 27, 2017

Nuns with Guns posted:

Critical Role did a one-shot Tears of the Kingdom game session sponsored directly by Nintendo:

https://twitter.com/CriticalRole/status/1663621298843684864

I'm not bringing this up to argue about whether or not CritRole should be taking that money, but I do wonder what it means when Nintendo starts leveraging TTRPG content creators to promote their IPs. Possibly doing an interest check ahead of exploring more tabletop gaming licensing?

(But oh god I dread the idea of an Official Nintendo TTRPG game rolling out given how they protect their IPs the way an enraged swan protects its pond.)

It could be because Mercer voiced Ganondorf in the game. They have done one shots of a couple different video games they voice acted in.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 03:47

Paracaidas: Sep 24, 2016; Consistently Tedious!

MuscaDomestica posted:

It could be because Mercer voiced Ganondorf in the game. They have done one shots of a couple different video games they voice acted in.

Pardon me as I start a rumor that Mercer and the other CR folks use free oneshots as a way to force other, more deserving voice actors out of roles.

:yeshaha:

# ? Jun 1, 2023 04:37

Epi Lepi: Oct 29, 2009; You can hear the voice
Telling you to Love
It's the voice of MK Ultra
And you're doing what it wants

Kai Tave posted:

They made a weird RPG module thing which was basically a longform Wendy's ad and Critical Role decided to run it at some convention, unprompted. It wasn't a sponsored thing as far as I can recall, but "Critical Role decides to do a big ad spot for a fast food corporation" was a weird look, and then people pointed out that Wendy's is notable for refusing to join a program to help ensure that their produce was harvested under fair working conditions and CR did a notesapp apology.

It was sponsored and it was a pretaped game that they aired once and then never again because people got mad. Wasn't a convention thing. You were also only halfway right about the British explorer thing, Campaign 3 is set in a vaguely ME/NA inspired land but they didn't cosplay for the game, the opening credit video for Campaign three has an Indiana Jones theme. Idk if that's better or worse for people inclined to be offended by that kind of thing.

Edit: Also 10 million dollars is a lot for a TTRPG company, not a production/media company with like 30 employees, especially since it was over I think a 2 or 3 year timespan, definitely more than 1 year. Gross revenue is a meaningless number until you understand their costs and margins.

Epi Lepi fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Jun 1, 2023

# ? Jun 1, 2023 04:38

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

admanb posted:

It was using a PBtA hack designed by Nintendo Treehouse.

That's interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if people at Nintendo have been playing around with RPG stuff even if it's not something the company has greenlit overall yet. In general, video game companies probably already have most of the skillsets required to play around with TRPGs without having to rely on a third party to do it for them unless they really don't care.

Also lol if the OGL kerfuffle has seriously crippled WotC's business relationships by showing they can't be trusted to play nice, and companies are better off making their own poo poo anyway.

Nuns with Guns posted:

There's something about metaphors involving comparing Critical Role to porn or kinky sex videos that's weird and off-putting to me in a way that's hard to articulate...

That's true. I could see official Nintendo board games and card games before a full TTRPG. But I don't know... maybe they would be receptive to a D&D supplement or they saw how much money the Avatar: The Last Airbender kickstarter raked in and figured that could be easy cash for the work of a basic PbtA hack?

Heh, remember Nintendo started over a century ago making card games. It's not an unfamiliar space to them, at least.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 04:42

TheDiceMustRoll: Jul 23, 2018

Ghost Leviathan posted:

That's interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if people at Nintendo have been playing around with RPG stuff even if it's not something the company has greenlit overall yet. In general, video game companies probably already have most of the skillsets required to play around with TRPGs without having to rely on a third party to do it for them unless they really don't care.

Also lol if the OGL kerfuffle has seriously crippled WotC's business relationships by showing they can't be trusted to play nice, and companies are better off making their own poo poo anyway.

Heh, remember Nintendo started over a century ago making card games. It's not an unfamiliar space to them, at least.

They made cards, not games. Hanafuda cards.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 04:45

Narsham: Jun 5, 2008

Kai Tave posted:

They made a weird RPG module thing which was basically a longform Wendy's ad and Critical Role decided to run it at some convention, unprompted. It wasn't a sponsored thing as far as I can recall, but "Critical Role decides to do a big ad spot for a fast food corporation" was a weird look, and then people pointed out that Wendy's is notable for refusing to join a program to help ensure that their produce was harvested under fair working conditions and CR did a notesapp apology.

They ran it as a one-shot, not at a convention. It aired live and then got pulled a day after the live airing after fans complained because of all the issues with Wendy�s, meaning that it�s now available multiple places on the Internet but not the Critical Role channel.

The one shot was announced at a convention as �sponsored,� so they did get paid for it.

I don�t know why people seem to have such strong reactions (positive or negative) to Critical Role, beyond them being the dominant AP group at present. I do know why they might have strong reactions to Wendy�s practices.

Linda Codega did a short piece on the Link RPG one-shot that just aired, and communicated with Crit Role about releasing the rules, with the answer that that is up to Nintendo. I strongly doubt Nintendo will let them do that or that they have any interest in TTRPGs when they�re doing quite well with the games they do make. Codega heard nothing back (yet) from Nintendo.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 04:53

Bottom Liner: Feb 15, 2006; a specific vein of lasagna

Epi Lepi posted:

Edit: Also 10 million dollars is a lot for a TTRPG company, not a production/media company with like 30 employees, especially since it was over I think a 2 or 3 year timespan, definitely more than 1 year. Gross revenue is a meaningless number until you understand their costs and margins.

10m is what they made from the Kickstarter alone (after KS's take), they probably made at least that again from Amazon buying out the rights (the incident that led to them telling backers to start a trial Prime account to watch the show they had backed). To say nothing of their income from WotC, Twitch, Youtube, etc. They are certainly not stretched thin.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 05:13

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

I'm posting this review below, not just because Crit Role is currently the topic at hand, but also because the review isn't all about the game per se, but touches on a lot of points about how CR, and its place in The Industry colors the opinions about Candela Obscura. I thought it was interesting.

Emphasis mine.

Candela Obscura Quickstart Review

quote:

This review doesn�t really matter.

This review doesn�t matter because there are four types of people who will click on this review when they see it, and none of them are looking for more information in order to form an opinion. You will have critters who�ve already decided they love Candela Obscura and want to see if I do too, and then critters who�ve already decided they hate Candela Obscura, think switching rulesets was pointless�and want to see if I do too. On the indie/OSR side, you have those who can�t stand Critical Role, and want to see if I�m going to bag on it, ranting as long as I did when I reviewed Root. You also have those who are just thankful that the largest Actual Play in the game is using something other than D&D, and have already decided it�s better. Ultimately, I don�t think my conclusion is going to satisfy any of these camps.

It�s fine.

Now, given my own biases from both years of experience in RPGs as well as other media (not to mention writing to a specific audience for a living), I find it hard to believe that anyone was expecting a conclusion other than �it�s fine� for the first ground-up new game from Darrington Press. Just like nobody should have expected Tal�Dorei to be a Planescape or Spelljammer or other setting that really pushes on the conventions of the D&D genre, nobody should really have expected that a new game from Critical Role Productions would do anything other than nestle neatly into the range of genres already popularized in roleplaying, specifically nestling in next to another bestseller, Call of Cthulhu.

I�m starting the review in this way because, ultimately, the specifics of Candela Obscura aren�t nearly as interesting as the reactions they�ve elicited. On Twitter, the first reactions I saw were mostly from indie designers who seemed primed to hate it. Apparently everyone became an IP lawyer since the OGL kerfluffle, because there were people outright claiming that the game had plagiarized Blades in the Dark and was violating the terms of the Creative Commons license (in case it isn�t clear, this is untrue). On Reddit, I read a lot of confusion about the system, though it�s hard to tell from comments if this is just from newness and lack of context, or if it is actually confusing in play. And, of course, the first big review expressed disappointment at how much of a retread the whole thing is.

To get into it, yes, Candela Obscura is heavily derivative of things that have come before. There are acknowledgments to both Blades in the Dark and Vaesen at the end of the Quickstart Guide, and having played both I see it fairly immediately. From Vaesen we get the implied gameplay loop; more specific than just investigators, the characters of Candela Obscura are aware of and investigating supernatural phenomena that most people don�t even believe in, let alone perceive. From Blades in the Dark we get the mechanics, John Harper�s dice pool modification of the three-result roll from Powered by the Apocalypse. The combination feels incredibly safe here in 2023, when Blades in the Dark is six years old, PbtA 13, and the supernatural horror RPG genre 40. That all said, if the intent is to maintain fan interest while diversifying from the increasingly crowded field of �like D&D, but�, then I can�t help but think this was a smart choice. I am inclined to believe that even if designers delivered something new and fresh to Darrington Press on a silver platter, they would have turned it away in favor of a bit of portfolio optimization.

At its core, Candela Obscura is certainly Forged in the Dark, using the same basic dice mechanics as I noted above. There are nine core verbs in Candela Obscura, as compared to twelve in Blades. Similarly, the Stress and Trauma system from Blades is both cut down but also diversified, becoming three kinds of �marks� which indicate different types of harm (roughly speaking, physical, mental, and magical). Another thing which becomes clear if you read closely is that the watchwords of Position and Effect are boiled down into stakes, which seems to only really equate to Position. There are a lot of clever mechanics in here, but as you read you quickly realize they�re mostly clever mechanics from Blades in the Dark.

Moving onto the setting, I rather like the contrast of a very D&D fantasy origin with the setting�s low-magic society. Reading the entry about Oldfaire in the Quickstart Guide does imply that there is a lot of potential history that leads up to the sort of quasi-Victorian setting implied in the rest of the Guide, and I appreciate that someone gave some thought to it. 2000 years is still a long timeline for that sort of thing (we got from black plague to electricity in 600-ish), but it�s better than most fantasy timelines I read. Continuing into the description of the central city of Newfaire, and�well, I read Newfaire and Doskvol next to each other, and while they are not the same city by any means, they are structured similarly, down to being cities on the coast with a river running through them. I�d be willing to bet that when the full book comes out, each district will be detailed with traits like, oh I don�t know, wealth, security, criminal influence, and occult influence. Just a guess.

Turning to the sample adventure, things go wrong; I have to be honest, this rubs me the wrong way. Called �Dressed to Kill�, the sample adventure has the PCs investigating the death of a woman modeling a dress of a shade the world hasn�t seen before. As noted in the text, the adventure is rooted in the very real history of the Radium Girls and Scheele�s Green, two different historical cases of using very toxic compounds (radium and copper arsenite, respectively) in pigments, killing both workers and customers. The book notes that these are examples of worker exploitation and rampant capitalism, and then notes that �TTRPGs can be a safe place to explore [these] terrifying realities through fiction�. That�that seems incredibly tone deaf. I won�t go into spoiler territory, though I will say the adventure at least doesn�t do anything worse to diminish the inherent criticism of capitalism from the original histories. It still doesn�t sit well with me how they�ve been recast for an entertainment piece, for upper-middle class gamers to �explore�. Any mention of the implied politics of the Victorian era are always couched in escapism (there�s a sidebar on page 11 that does this), and it feels like skirting the issue in a big way. Contrast that to Doskvol, which earns its darkness and wears the exploitation, class struggle, and desperation firmly on its sleeve. I may be reading too much into it, but looking at what we have between the setting and the sample adventure Newfaire reads as neoliberal Doskvol, with all the baggage that entails. And honestly, with the drive towards simplistic morals and alignment charts and �good and evil�, this is probably the strongest link back to D&D in the material.

At the end of the day, we have a Forged in the Dark game, distilled for Actual Play use. Many of the setting principles of Blades in the Dark and Vaesen are there but dulled down, lightening up the darkness and removing any allusions to actual capitalist exploitation or actual commentary on Christian expansion and hegemony as existed in Vaesen. �We just want to have fun, guys, not worry about all that stuff. But you can explore that all at home, as long as you write characters with integrity!� As I mentioned in the intro, I firmly believe that mechanically, this game was exactly the right move for what is simply a business, trying to sell subscriptions and sourcebooks. Setting-wise, though, what started out as perhaps a bit derivative ended up being a clear indication of a mind virus, though whether it�s a D&D mind virus or a Los Angeles/Hollywood mind virus I�m not entirely sure. Darrington Press desperately wants to have it both ways, to be seen as progressive and �with it� but not actually engage with any politics or the implications of their setting. To be honest, I can�t think of a scenario where they wouldn�t have done this; way too much money is on the table. That said, they probably could have done it a lot better.

Considering everything, is it bad or good? It�s just like I said at the beginning; it�s fine. It is a corporate game being released by a corporation (Critical Role Productions is not as big as Hasbro but they still likely have an eight-figure revenue), and it reads like that. If it succeeds, the Illuminated Worlds line will make the company some more money and maybe a few more people will check out Forged in the Dark games. If it fails, it will serve as the banner for Critical Role to be ride-or-die for D&D forever. As a sign in the greater hobby, though, the fact that there is a non-D&D Critical Role game is a good thing. And even though I am squicked out by �neoliberal Doskvol�, it is nowhere near the worst thing out there.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 05:26

Colonel Cool: Dec 24, 2006

hyphz posted:

It�s that they have the same effect as porn. They give people unrealistic expectations. Then when those people try the real thing, they�re disappointed, blame the other people involved for not trying hard enough, then potentially fall into despair and double down on consumption of the fake.

Man, I don't know. I've watched a bit of CR when I had nothing better to do out of curiosity, and it just seems like a bog standard mid-tier D&D game with good voice acting. I've had much better games. Heck, I currently have much better games.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 05:27

Terrible Opinions: Oct 18, 2013

In the analogy porn's unrealistic expectations are not in quality. It's that what looks good on camera does not match up to quality in real life .

# ? Jun 1, 2023 05:49

Epi Lepi: Oct 29, 2009; You can hear the voice
Telling you to Love
It's the voice of MK Ultra
And you're doing what it wants

Bottom Liner posted:

10m is what they made from the Kickstarter alone (after KS's take), they probably made at least that again from Amazon buying out the rights (the incident that led to them telling backers to start a trial Prime account to watch the show they had backed). To say nothing of their income from WotC, Twitch, Youtube, etc. They are certainly not stretched thin.

I'm not even talking about the Kickstarter or the show, I think 10M or somewhere around there is what leaked from Twitch. But again, animation is expensive, costs matter. All the additional voice actors outside the main cast and the sound effects and music that had to be created all cost money and probably not a small amount.

People who don't know poo poo about money or running a business see $10M and are like "WOW THEY MUST BE RICH" which is asinine. The CR cast probably have a comfortable living but after doing this for 10 years it feels deserved and I can't take people who are mad at that seriously.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 05:53

Covermeinsunshine: Sep 15, 2021

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

Stringstorm, a nerdy music youtuber, noted for his work making parody songs for Battletech and WH40k, has uploaded a video admitting to...... gently caress it. He groomed a minor.

Wait what the gently caress. I was listening to this suspecting he is some secret nazi or otherwise but did not expect this

# ? Jun 1, 2023 06:47

Lamuella: Jun 26, 2003; It's like goldy or bronzy, but made of iron.

gradenko_2000 posted:

I'm posting this review below, not just because Crit Role is currently the topic at hand, but also because the review isn't all about the game per se, but touches on a lot of points about how CR, and its place in The Industry colors the opinions about Candela Obscura. I thought it was interesting.

Emphasis mine.

Candela Obscura Quickstart Review

Critical Role turning out a product that is perfectly fune, not world changing, sort of like the indies but with the edges filed off, and which will ultimately be loved or hated by people sight unseen? Unheard of!

# ? Jun 1, 2023 07:13

Lumbermouth: Mar 6, 2008; GREG IS BIG NOW

My main frustration with the rise of APs is how it�s transformed RPGs into a much more intentional creative space that I feel comfortable with. The parts of RPGs that bring me the most joy are setting up situations for my players to make big swings and contribute to where the story goes. APs encourage their viewers to treat RPGs like novels instead of improv, with all the criticism about intent that entails. I want GMs and players to be able to make mistakes and a culture where your session is pored over like TVTropes discourages that.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 13:17

TheDiceMustRoll: Jul 23, 2018

Covermeinsunshine posted:

Wait what the gently caress. I was listening to this suspecting he is some secret nazi or otherwise but did not expect this

My youtube sub list grows ever esoteric and strange as I try to find youtubers that cater to my niche interests and aren't grooming minors. Very annoying how "not a pedophile" is such a high bar to jump these days.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 13:23

Thanlis: Mar 17, 2011

Ghost Leviathan posted:

In general, video game companies probably already have most of the skillsets required to play around with TRPGs without having to rely on a third party to do it for them unless they really don't care.

I can�t speak to Japanese video game companies but I have never worked at a US video game company without a thriving TTRPG culture. Usually D&D oriented with a couple of people trying to drum up interest in something a bit less mainstream.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 14:12

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Are there any gaslight fantasy RPGs where the aristocracy and new-money robber barons are portrayed as scum and the PCs are loving up their poo poo?

# ? Jun 1, 2023 14:26

TheDiceMustRoll: Jul 23, 2018

Splicer posted:

Are there any gaslight fantasy RPGs where the aristocracy and new-money robber barons are portrayed as scum and the PCs are loving up their poo poo?

protip: tax 90% of your pcs earnings from adventuring directly into the local lords coffers and the pcs will suddenly feel like local politics are worth paying attention to

# ? Jun 1, 2023 14:34

The Deleter: May 22, 2010

Splicer posted:

Are there any gaslight fantasy RPGs where the aristocracy and new-money robber barons are portrayed as scum and the PCs are loving up their poo poo?

No.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 14:37

EdsTeioh: Oct 23, 2004; PRAY FOR DEATH

Splicer posted:

Are there any gaslight fantasy RPGs where the aristocracy and new-money robber barons are portrayed as scum and the PCs are loving up their poo poo?

That's pretty close to an alternate setting that was mentioned in like 1 paragraph in GURPS Cyberpunk; basically taking the cyberpunk tropes and dropping them in a different time, replacing tech with magic but keeping the "fight against The Man�" that cyberpunk is supposed to be about.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 14:38

The Deleter: May 22, 2010

The inherent part of gaslight fantasy is getting to be the rich smart guy who can use the science-magic to do whatever. If it had any of the depictions Splicer wanted it wouldn't be gaslight fantasy.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 14:41

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

EdsTeioh posted:

That's pretty close to an alternate setting that was mentioned in like 1 paragraph in GURPS Cyberpunk; basically taking the cyberpunk tropes and dropping them in a different time, replacing tech with magic but keeping the "fight against The Man�" that cyberpunk is supposed to be about.

Yeah grabbing a cyberpunk setting and scribbling "STEAM" over everything is an obvious option but I was hoping for something a bit more bespoke (e: and with a few more large-scale victories)

The Deleter posted:

The inherent part of gaslight fantasy is getting to be the rich smart guy who can use the science-magic to do whatever. If it had any of the depictions Splicer wanted it wouldn't be gaslight fantasy.

Ok fancy pants, are there any RPGs set in an alternate Victorian England or Victorian England-esque setting with weird science and steampunk bullshit where the aristocracy and new-money robber barons are portrayed as scum and the PCs are loving up their poo poo?

Splicer fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Jun 1, 2023

# ? Jun 1, 2023 14:46

YggdrasilTM: Nov 7, 2011

Not that I know, at least nothing where it's the major focus or theme. I played some anarchist or communists in steampunk settings, but they were only due to my personal choice, not to an intrinsic design of the setting.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 14:53

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

Splicer posted:

Ok fancy pants, are there any RPGs set in an alternate Victorian England or Victorian England-esque setting with weird science and steampunk bullshit where the aristocracy and new-money robber barons are portrayed as scum and the PCs are loving up their poo poo?

I haven't played it but isn't that kind of describing Blades in the Dark?

# ? Jun 1, 2023 14:59

Lumbermouth: Mar 6, 2008; GREG IS BIG NOW

Splicer posted:

Ok fancy pants, are there any RPGs set in an alternate Victorian England or Victorian England-esque setting with weird science and steampunk bullshit where the aristocracy and new-money robber barons are portrayed as scum and the PCs are loving up their poo poo?

Probably just Blades. It's one of the reasons that I don't care for steampunk poo poo and would rather run something like Vaesen or Cthulhu By Gaslight.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 15:00

Saxophone: Sep 19, 2006

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

protip: tax 90% of your pcs earnings from adventuring directly into the local lords coffers and the pcs will suddenly feel like local politics are worth paying attention to

It�s real easy to get here in just about any setting� see above.

You can also have them gently caress with things like the PC�s favorite NPC or item shop. Have them berate and be awful to the party�s adopted goblin. Largely just make the PCs feel some sort of consequence for the ruling class�s actions.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 15:00

MrL_JaKiri: Sep 23, 2003; A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Arivia posted:

I haven't played it but isn't that kind of describing Blades in the Dark?

That's how our Blades campaign is going for sure

# ? Jun 1, 2023 15:01

TheDiceMustRoll: Jul 23, 2018

Splicer posted:

Yeah grabbing a cyberpunk setting and scribbling "STEAM" over everything is an obvious option but I was hoping for something a bit more bespoke (e: and with a few more large-scale victories)

Ok fancy pants, are there any RPGs set in an alternate Victorian England or Victorian England-esque setting with weird science and steampunk bullshit where the aristocracy and new-money robber barons are portrayed as scum and the PCs are loving up their poo poo?

uh
try magical industrial revolution by skerples: A wizard decides to dunk on a loom by magically looming better and a venture capitalist shows up at his house the next day begging him to please make more magic looms. There are like six different ways magic is being industrialized and all of them will end up destroying the world if allowed to continue, from scrying being used to catch jack the ripper and then any criminal and then "traitors"
to pocket dimensions being used as cheap housing. and then housing. also did you know these pocket dimensions exist in the "outside" and there are things wanting to come in?

and more! its fun

# ? Jun 1, 2023 15:15

Cessna: Feb 20, 2013; KHABAHBLOOOM

Splicer posted:

Yeah grabbing a cyberpunk setting and scribbling "STEAM" over everything is an obvious option but I was hoping for something a bit more bespoke (e: and with a few more large-scale victories)

Ok fancy pants, are there any RPGs set in an alternate Victorian England or Victorian England-esque setting with weird science and steampunk bullshit where the aristocracy and new-money robber barons are portrayed as scum and the PCs are loving up their poo poo?

You could do that with Castle Falkenstein.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 15:22

Tuxedo Catfish: Mar 17, 2007; You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Splicer posted:

Are there any gaslight fantasy RPGs where the aristocracy and new-money robber barons are portrayed as scum and the PCs are loving up their poo poo?

Blades in the Dark?

efb big time

# ? Jun 1, 2023 15:25

Cannibal Smiley: Feb 20, 2013

You could always try Comrades, which is about revolutionaries trying to overthrow a tyrannical government. You'd have to reskin it a little, but that wouldn't be too difficult.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/260813/Comrades-A-Revolutionary-RPG

# ? Jun 1, 2023 15:25

Narsham: Jun 5, 2008

Splicer posted:

Are there any gaslight fantasy RPGs where the aristocracy and new-money robber barons are portrayed as scum and the PCs are loving up their poo poo?

RPGs, or settings? Our group never got far enough into the Zeitgeist campaign to establish how far it was going to push against these things, but the potential seemed to be there.

Lumbermouth posted:

My main frustration with the rise of APs is how it�s transformed RPGs into a much more intentional creative space that I feel comfortable with. The parts of RPGs that bring me the most joy are setting up situations for my players to make big swings and contribute to where the story goes. APs encourage their viewers to treat RPGs like novels instead of improv, with all the criticism about intent that entails. I want GMs and players to be able to make mistakes and a culture where your session is pored over like TVTropes discourages that.

Play in AP is distinct from the kinds of toxic criticism that �fans� love to offer them. Both Crit Role and the Dimension 20 campaigns are heavily improv-influenced; just because Matt as GM embeds information in Campaign 1 that never gets much attention in play but turns out to be important by Campaign 3 doesn�t mean that he�s ruined the spontaneity of play by building a �novel�-style game.

For that matter, Crit Role can have an employee who handles �continuity� for Matt, and he can search transcripts and fan wikis to pull out things like NPCs who appeared once four years ago. That doesn�t kill improv, it changes the tools involved in adventure design, in ways regular campaigns aren�t likely to duplicate. You can get miniatures and buy Dwarven Forge terrain with money, but most home campaigns aren�t going to keep transcripts of every play session.

There�s already been discussion of the �Mercer effect,� but unlike pornography, which is watched by a significant fraction of people and lots of views a day (a quick search suggests 100 million Pornhub views a day), Critical Role might top out around 1 million plus? If you include the cartoon, that number might be higher. Even if you take a low number for RPG players, you�re looking at perhaps 10% of RPG participants also watching at least some Crit Role. Whereas as many as 75% of teens have watched pornography. I just don�t see evidence that Critical Role has the same level of influence. At best, it might influence RPG designers, if they watch it in disproportionate numbers or think it worth marketing to that demographic.

But is Mercer�s NPC performance distorting new player expectations as much as, say, depictions of RPG play on something like The Big Bang Theory? He certainly didn�t invent depicting NPCs through voice and personality. And I�m not sure that entertaining or pleasing players is a bad goal for a GM. In terms of �mistakes,� I�d be more concerned about rules mistakes and about his players becoming more risk averse because of the online criticism they may he subject to, but those were both issues in games well before the rise of AP and even before RPGs started appearing on local access channels.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 15:25

Truther Vandross: Jun 17, 2008

Critical Role is perfectly fine entertainment, meant mostly for people who don't have a group to run their own campaigns with and/or the free time to be a part of one. The target audience is "That seems fun but I don't know how to do it or who to do it with"

If you have the knowledge/desire to deeply analyze the TTRPG landscape and how CR fits into it, the show is not meant for you to begin with.

Also, the porn chat is extremely weird

Truther Vandross fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Jun 1, 2023

# ? Jun 1, 2023 15:26

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Splicer posted:

Are there any gaslight fantasy RPGs where the aristocracy and new-money robber barons are portrayed as scum and the PCs are loving up their poo poo?

Non-serious response: Reskinned SIGMATA

# ? Jun 1, 2023 15:29

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# ? May 26, 2024 05:56

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

It�s more Regency than Victorian but GURPS Goblins mostly has wretched and impoverished lower-class characters trying to make a go of it (and usually failing horribly) in a grim Hobbesian environment.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 15:32

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

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