Cannon_Fodder posted:

I didn't do it, goddamnit, but I'm going to make some rules so I don't do it again.

cr0y posted:

Why are they even bothering with laws anymore?

Handsome Ralph posted:

Didn't see this posted but apparently a European intelligence agency discovered a plot by Ukraine to blow up the Nordstream prior to it actually blowing up last fall and passed it on to the CIA.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/

Kesper North posted:

Weird how this story, based on Discord leaks which were believed to have been edited, came out the day after Russia does something extremely mediapathic in Ukraine

A.o.D. posted:

The article states that the report is very detailed but the details are "trust us bro" and that we are supposed to believe that only six people conducted this underwater demolition activity. I suppose it's possible but I'll need more than the allegations. As a point of comparison, see what was known about the 911 hijackers after this much time.

Hell, they can't even name which European Intel service in the article. This is all one huge trust me bro.

Herstory Begins Now posted:

Wasabi the J posted:

Source: texeira discord chats and trust us bro.

Also lol

Herstory Begins Now posted:

for all the 'lol russia is a failed state' stuff they really aren't and they do have a relatively robust legal system (albeit certain things and people very, very much find a way to end up sheltered from its reach) and a wide range of both de facto and de jure civil and human rights enshrined in law and constitution that the government is obligated to protect and respect.

Herstory Begins Now posted:

^ russia sucks an unbelievable amount of rear end on virtually every conceivable level and yes they have tiers of people that are untouchable to their legal system and extremely touchable to their legal system (and other non-legal coercive systems), but they very much still have a legal system and legal framework that they ostensibly draw legitimacy from and are required to at least pretend to be upholding

Bum the Sad posted:

until you criticize it, then you get locked away and tortured

mlmp08 posted:

Sorry people, Russia said it blew up 250 enemy armored vehicles today and achieved a KDR of over 52:1.

At this rate those 9 brigades stop existing in 3 days or something in exchange for one or two companies.

Herstory Begins Now posted:

yes? i invite you to go through my post history and try to find a single post of me uncritically supporting russia. I guarantee you that you will not find a single one. You will find me arguing poo poo like 'russia actually has been tactically adapting this entire time' and other critiques of the weird messaging wrt russia that is pretty much ubiquitous in english language spaces, but you will find literally nothing ambiguous about which side I consider unequivocally in the wrong.

Bum the Sad posted:

lol, until you criticize Putin, or maybe act a little gay, or wear blue and yellow and get 30 years in prison for treason/a face full of polonium

shame on an IGA posted:

I think the point being made was that while Russian domestic law is largely kayfabe, kayfabe itself has rules and forms that must be respected

shame on an IGA posted:

I think the point being made was that while Russian domestic law is largely kayfabe, kayfabe itself has rules and forms that must be respected

shame on an IGA posted:

I think the point being made was that while Russian domestic law is largely kayfabe, kayfabe itself has rules and forms that must be respected

Tuna-Fish posted:

This is it. Law is surprisingly important inside Russia, and you can usually defend yourself by very strictly adhering to the letter of the law. See the bunch of cops who refused to take part in the invasion because the paperwork was wrong (they had orders that required them to enter Ukraine, but by Russian law you are always supposed to have a passport with you when you cross the border of the federation, and they didn't have any passports, and therefore argued that they could not legally follow the order). You'd expect that people who refuse order to go to the front would be made examples of, but instead the court ruled in favor of them.

If you attract the attention of the all-highest, all of that is moot, of course. But other than that, Russia has poo poo laws, but laws still matter.

CainFortea posted:

My dude you're the one posting fan fiction about russia having a wide range of both de facto and de jure civil and human rights enshrined in law and constitution that the government is obligated to protect and respect which falls apart because

Herstory Begins Now posted:

Yeah it's this more or less, though it isn't entirely kayfabe either. Russia has been changing their laws throughout the course of the war because russian courts had a pesky habit of actually siding with people refusing unlawful orders or refusing to deploy. Frankly the tightening of laws since the start of this round of the war has been almost certainly the single biggest constriction of freedoms in post soviet Russia.

Wasabi the J posted:

Tuna-Fish posted:

The trial would of course be a show trial, but the fact that there was a trial mattered deeply to the people holding the trials, even if the difference might seem academic to us.

A.o.D. posted:

A perfect example of Russian jurisprudence calvinball: Conscripts cannot be deployed outside of Russia, so in order to get around that Russia annexes regions they don't fully control, and in one case they don't even control the capital of. The law still remains, but the practice has rendered the right meaningless, as conscripts can now be deployed to invade a sovereign nation.

shame on an IGA posted:

I think the point being made was that while Russian domestic law is largely kayfabe, kayfabe itself has rules and forms that must be respected

Herstory Begins Now posted:

this was one of the single largest reservoirs in ukraine that has both major strategic and geopolitical significance, it's not like some podunk dam built in 1910 failing that no one has inspected in several years. I don't think it's impossible that they pushed it to a failure point (albeit there's no evidence that is actually what caused the failure), but it failing completely with no warning would require an unprecedented level of neglect and incompetence. Yes they'd been raising the water level as high as possible since ~march, but there's another major reason why they might've wanted to maximize the amount of water in the reservoir.

here's the dam relative to ukraine as a whole, that entire body of water above it is what we are talking about, it's not some minor dam of little significance that you just neglect. nor has russia been neglecting it at any point, as it's been extremely militarily significant to them as a crossing at multiple points in the war. Hell, they already blew the roadway over it after the Kherson withdrawal.



in light of all that, mere incompetence is a pretty tough sell

quote:

Ukrainian troops witnessed Russian soldiers being swept up in flood waters and fleeing the east bank of the Dnipro River after the collapse of the Nova Khakovka dam, an officer in Ukraine's armed forces said. Many Russian troops were killed or wounded in the chaos, according to the officer.

Capt. Andrei Pidlisnyi said when the dam collapsed in the early hours of Tuesday morning “no one on the Russian side was able to get away. All the regiments the Russians had on that side were flooded.”

Pidlisnyi told CNN he believed the Russians had deliberately attacked the dam to disrupt Ukrainian forces’ plans for an upcoming offensive.

“Around 3 a.m., the enemy blew up the Kakhovka Hydro Power Plant in order to raise the water level to flood the approaches and the left bank of the Dnipro River, as well as the settlements located there. And to make it impossible for the Ukrainian armed forces to advance in the future," he claimed.

Pidlisnyi explained that the lie of the land around the river meant that Russia’s military — located on the east bank — suffered serious impacts in the dam’s breach. His unit was able to watch the events unfold through the use of drones and troops on the scene.

“The left [east] bank is lower than the right bank, so it is more flooded. The enemy’s positions right on the riverbank were also flooded. You need to understand that the enemy's positions are not only trenches but also ordinary civilian houses where they lived," Pidlisnyi said.

The Russian units in harm’s way may not have been warned, possibly to maintain the element of surprise, Pidlisnyi said.

Pointing blame: Ukraine’s government has echoed Pidlisnyi’s contention that Russia deliberately blew up the dam, while the Kremlin has said it was Kyiv’s forces that carried out an attack.

In fact, evidence to conclusively support either side’s claim is yet to emerge, while analysis of videos of the dam, and its subsequent breach, and in particular examination of satellite imagery, suggest the collapse could have been the result of structural failure since the Russians occupied the dam in March last year.

Dick Ripple posted:

While I do not doubt that there are or have been conscripts in the occupied/annexed regions, has there been any reliable reporting on numbers there? Anecdottaly, I have seen a lot of videos of Russians being captured and I do not recall seeing many of them being of conscript age. It is also possible the Russian command have not thrown the lot of them to the front line and instead they are more regulated for rear echelon duties.

GD_American posted:

Victis posted:

You haven't seen guys 18-27 (older for prior military mobilized)? Or do you think there is somehow a glut of contract soldiers still alive and doing all the fighting? I wasn't even aware that mobiks dying in Ukraine was up for debate

lmao where do you think the guys mobilized in September 2022 went??

OddObserver posted:

So there is a distinction between people drafted for their mandatory [1] service upon turning 18ish and people drafted for the war; the government trying to keep the first group uninvolved.

[1] for those who can't afford a bribe.

psydude posted:

The "mobiks" are almost entirely veterans who were recalled to active duty and tossed directly into the jaws of the HIMARS. The semi-annual conscription is a highly regulated affair, and using those recruits on the frontlines would effectively require Putin to admit there's a war on. This is one of the sources of a major controversy surrounding the sinking of the Moskva: there were conscripts onboard, and many did die. And the Russian MoD tried bribing and coercing relatives into staying quiet about it.

e: FWIW, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere yet that Russia is sending conscripts to the frontlines in any significant numbers. ISW occasionally reports on instances where this happens, but it appears to be relatively rare. Of course, a lot of them have reported being forced into signing up as contract soldiers when their term of service ends, so it's kind of the same effect in the end.

psydude posted:

The "mobiks" are almost entirely veterans who were recalled to active duty and tossed directly into the jaws of the HIMARS. The semi-annual conscription is a highly regulated affair, and using those recruits on the frontlines would effectively require Putin to admit there's a war on. This is one of the sources of a major controversy surrounding the sinking of the Moskva: there were conscripts onboard, and many did die. And the Russian MoD tried bribing and coercing relatives into staying quiet about it.

fatherboxx posted:

"Veteran" is pulling a lot of weight for a "guy who painted grass and spent fridays drinking antifreeze for a year in between slave labor on general's dacha" 10-15 years ago. Compared to a generic Ukrainian mobilized who very likely served in the ATO (Donbass conflict zone) where hundreds of thousands had a rotation during their mandatory draft conscription for 8 years.