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no basements for when the wind gets bad 'cause you're parking there. so when a tornado comes by all the utility hookups and the foundation is fine you can just put more house on it
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Jun 7, 2023 04:13
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The Medium Place was only accessible by a train station within walking distance, so if they build a stop on that line in the backyard and destroy all the roads leading into the neighbourhood, it'll be pretty drat close.
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Jun 7, 2023 04:13
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Grognan posted:no basements fail Love me a good basement
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Jun 7, 2023 04:48
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Mauser posted:I'm saying driving a car is hell it is better to reign in hell than serve in heaven
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Jun 7, 2023 05:09
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eXXon posted:The Medium Place was only accessible by a train station within walking distance, so if they build a stop on that line in the backyard and destroy all the roads leading into the neighbourhood, it'll be pretty drat close. Oh you're right. Yeah, those homes are worse than the Medium Place.
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Jun 7, 2023 05:10
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this "missing middle" poo poo seems plausible when an exactly 11 minute youtube lays it out for you, but it seems to me it's got the same basic problem as all of YIMBYism, which is that the foundations are faith in the ability of markets to efficiently deliver equitable outcomes. IIUC the premise of missing middle is that if we built a bunch of this kind of housing, then cost of living in traditionally cheap neighborhoods would stabilize because the yuppies and petit bourg would buy the new stuff instead of becoming gentrifiers. even if this is true, this doesn't do much to improve conditions in those "traditionally cheap neighborhoods" (aka ghettos) but past that it seems like bullshit. for gently caress's sake, how many centuries of this poo poo do we have to live through before people figure out that markets are good at delivering profits to capitalists, not so hot at ensuring people have their basic needs met. I'm willing to believe that the missing middle theory is right about the particular size and density of housing units (ugh, loving yimbys, who wants to live in a "unit") that's needed, but I think it's a dead end unless we're talking about public housing. Otherwise it's just another scam by real estate developers to get tax dollars flowing into their pockets and various safety, environmental and unionized labour requirements relaxed (which is just an indirect means of putting more money into real estate developer pockets). i'm sure this point has been made ten times in the last page but I scrolled past all of it in my eagerness to 
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Jun 7, 2023 05:23
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so the phrase "missing middle" refers to some kind of "middle" between high-end homes and low-end homes? that doesn't loving fix anything!
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Jun 7, 2023 05:45
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I’m definitely not giving the idea a fair shake, you should probably hear it from an actual proponent before you make up your mind. but yes, that’s my read on it. I can believe that a big part of the housing problem is a lack of supply, but the YIMBY imagination is so crippled that they can’t imagine any solutions besides tweaking the supply/demand curve. in that worldview, solutions outside of capitalist economics just… don’t exist
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Jun 7, 2023 05:52
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gradenko_2000 posted:so the phrase "missing middle" refers to some kind of "middle" between high-end homes and low-end homes? it refers to a bunch of medium-density housing that used to be built a lot but stopped being built when Reagan completely hosed the HUD budget in the 80s to like 15% of what it used to be. it was generally stuff that was a public-private partnership and penciled out for developers because of the funding they were getting to build it from HUD 
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Jun 7, 2023 05:56
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yeah "missing middle" refers to stuff like nplexes, townhouses, rowhouses, etc. yeah, the gap between single family detached homes and 5-over-1s. But yeah the core problem with all YIMBYism is that the housing supply problem isn't really at the construction end of supply, it's at the to-end-user end of supply. Sure in some specific areas more building is needed, but even there, it won't actually do any loving good if it's all owned by blackrock or whatever and rented out at $2000+/mo or sold at $750,000+. And the YIMBY response to this is "well it means gentrifiers will buy those expensive new houses instead of gentrifying cheap areas and that will leave cheap areas open for poorer people to move into".. which.. like a) I'll believe it when I loving see it because every crapshack 1bd apartment in my loving county is now going for a monthly rent of "exactly what a single person working a 40 hour week at minimum wage might hope to earn. and you need to have an income of at least 3 times that to qualify". there is no magic benevolent landlord that will keep things cheap, because they can charge whatever the gently caress they want, because the choice is to either pay however you can even if it means six people in a 1bd apartment, or be a homeless subhuman subject to summary arrest or execution. and b) so, what, their expectation is that all the proles will just shuffle out to whatever abandoned cheap shithole is available as rich people continue to move into the town and take up the newly built stuff even if it's a 4 hour commute from their job? And that's where we circle back around to gently caress cars. rent control, public housing, public transit that doesn't suck poo poo, it's all interrelated
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Jun 7, 2023 06:12
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YIMBYs don't want to house the working class. YIMBYs want a subsidy to become landlords.
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Jun 7, 2023 06:14
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fermun posted:it refers to a bunch of medium-density housing that used to be built a lot but stopped being built when Reagan completely hosed the HUD budget in the 80s to like 15% of what it used to be. it was generally stuff that was a public-private partnership and penciled out for developers because of the funding they were getting to build it from HUD Most missing middle housing was built without subsidies. The main factor that prevents it from get built these days is that it's illegal to build due to zoning. If you live in a city with pre-WWII suburbs, they're filled with duplexes, small apartment buildings, cottage courts, etc. People built that stuff all the time when it was allowed. Weembles has issued a correction as of 07:04 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 06:15
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the point that current zoning regulations are bad is a good one. I also don’t find it hard to believe that pre WWII America built a healthier mix of housing than we do today. however America in the period immediately before the war famously had problems with poverty and homelessness (c.f. The Grapes of Wrath, and other non fictional sources I don’t have citations for) so I think all that supports the argument that deregulation and laissez faire is not sufficient to ensure a just housing situation.
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Jun 7, 2023 07:02
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zero knowledge posted:the point that current zoning regulations are bad is a good one. I also don’t find it hard to believe that pre WWII America built a healthier mix of housing than we do today. however America in the period immediately before the war famously had problems with poverty and homelessness (c.f. The Grapes of Wrath, and other non fictional sources I don’t have citations for) so I think all that supports the argument that deregulation and laissez faire is not sufficient to ensure a just housing situation. The problem is that there are two big questions that housing and urban development fans are trying to answer. One is the question of how we build a city that doesn't turn into a car dependent sprawl. When people talk about missing middle housing and density and transit oriented development - that is what they are addressing. The other is how we build a city that people can afford to live in. When people talk about the housing deficit and rent control and public housing - that is what they are addressing, People love to smack down people trying to talk about one becuase they're more interested in the other, but that's pure wrecker poo poo and doesn't contribute to anything useful.
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Jun 7, 2023 07:14
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I think you’re making a very valuable distinction there. To be clear, I’m not arguing against building missing middle stuff. I also honestly have a lot of love for YIMBYs as individuals: they’ve correctly identified a real problem and are articulating and advocating for solutions. But my personal belief is that public housing schemes — whether that’s top-down central planning or bottom-up community driven — are our only hope of addressing either of the problems you identified, let alone both. The free market can only make things worse, because it turns out that selling every American a brand new self driving EV and a garage to store it in is more profitable than building dense, transit adjacent housing.
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Jun 7, 2023 07:34
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Yeah, none of that will be sufficient to fix the housing market without attacking housing as an investment vehicle.
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Jun 7, 2023 07:43
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Epic High Five posted:looks like a happy meal transformer toy somebody couldn't figure out how to finish the transformation Woah. I know exactly what you're talking about Weembles posted:Most missing middle housing was built without subsidies. The main factor that prevents it from get built these days is that it's illegal to build due to zoning. Honestly I might hate zoning laws even more than the suburbs. It is possible to have (relatively) dense SFH that're readily serviceable by at least some sort of public transportation and have some sort of corner grocer or something. LA's got some, New york's got some. Chicago in places. It seems like any city that blew up post war is really lacking and anything in the past 40ish years in particular really sucks. Milo and POTUS has issued a correction as of 08:02 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 07:46
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The problem is "missing middle" type of housing just really isn't profitable if you also have to include potentially parking. A single family house is pretty straight forward to throw up, but once you add more complexity, it becomes more of an issue. Obviously, 5 over 1 housing now exists in a lot of cities at this point, but it is usually build on whatever left over land was available, and in all honesty most American cities just sort of suck to not have a card in unless you can talking about a very small number of coastal cities and usually in their historical heart. American cities were permanently disfigured, and I don't think zoning is going to change that in all honesty, beyond some infill housing here and there and that will only be at market rate. -------- LA's public transportation system really does suck even after decades of investment, you can watch plenty of youtube videos about how it still takes an hour and a half to reach nearly anywhere. They designed it so it will always be inferior to taking a car. Chicago really isn't much better, it just seems better compared to the rest of the Midwest. New York at least has a actual subway, but it is clearly underfunded. It is just hard to have a good life in any city that was rebuild around the idea of preventing "race mixing," and post-war American cities generally were.
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Jun 7, 2023 09:41
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interesting findings The effect of safety attire on perceptions of cyclist dehumanisation Limb & Collyer, 2023 posted:Increasing the uptake of active, carbon neutral forms of transport is indicated for both population health and environmental conservation. Efforts to increase cycling uptake are hindered by negative attitudes towards cyclists. Recent research from Australia has found that many people consider cyclists to be less than fully human. There is currently a lack of empirical evidence that explains these dehumanising perceptions. Most people who ride bicycles in Australia wear safety helmets as required by mandatory helmet laws. We hypothesised that people wearing bicycle helmets are perceived as less human compared to people without helmets due to reduced visibility of eyes and hair. We tested this hypothesis through a survey (n = 563) comprised of two-paired alternate forced choice questions to identify which image of a cyclist respondents consider to be less human. We then analysed the results using a Bradley-Terry probability model. We found images of cyclists wearing helmets or safety vests to have a higher probability of being selected as less human compared to images of cyclists wearing no safety equipment. The results have implications for research on cyclist dehumanisation and its mitigation.  
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Jun 7, 2023 12:23
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lycra bike suits are indicative of goblinhood
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Jun 7, 2023 12:42
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hailthefish posted:yeah "missing middle" refers to stuff like nplexes, townhouses, rowhouses, etc. yeah, the gap between single family detached homes and 5-over-1s. Any attempt to actually build this stuff in the us on a small scale right now will end up being super expensive just because of how uncommon it is, and it might be inherently more expensive than apartments, but that's not a reason people shouldn't try to change zoning rules to allow it because it's important for apartments and mcmansions to not be the only two options for housing because that screws up how people think about density. mystes has issued a correction as of 12:57 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 12:52
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Weembles posted:Most missing middle housing was built without subsidies. The main factor that prevents it from get built these days is that it's illegal to build due to zoning.  This is a nice pleasant street in a first ring suburb that's very popular, apartments over retail. There are grocery stores, medical offices, a church, a theater, a grocery store, etc and just about all of it has living space over it. There's a light rail stop at one end. It would be illegal to build it today where it currently sits.
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Jun 7, 2023 13:59
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lol
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Jun 7, 2023 14:09
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:
I would kill to live somewhere like that.
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Jun 7, 2023 14:26
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Milo and POTUS posted:Woah. I know exactly what you're talking about the area I live in has a 2 groceries, a bar a coffeshop and bookstore etc within half a mile. there's even a bus stop. the bus doesn't run on sunday and only runs until 6pm on saturday lmao there's a huge shopping district with nice restaurants a couple miles from my house but you can't get there by bus on the weekends and biking is insanely dangerous if i had a time machine i'd kill henry ford
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Jun 7, 2023 14:30
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I'm moving away from the light rail line here but the place I'm moving to has a dedicated busway a block away with a bus coming by every twelve minutes during rush hour, and runs from 4:30 AM to 1 AM It'll do I guess. It's also a first ring suburb that should have been annexed by the city a century ago, but the state made it illegal for the city to do that.
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Jun 7, 2023 14:32
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Lots of stuff that would improve our quality of life is illegal now, makes u think
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Jun 7, 2023 14:37
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:Lots of stuff that would improve our quality of life is illegal now, makes u think sorry but your neighborhood not sucking a dog's dick would adversely impact the people who matter, landlords and real estate developers
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Jun 7, 2023 14:43
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I don't really think it improves profit for those groups. I was initially done for racism reasons, then continued purely out of inertia and car brain.
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Jun 7, 2023 14:57
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ikanreed posted:I don't really think it improves profit for those groups. I was initially done for racism reasons, then continued purely out of inertia and car brain. Even if it WERE more profitable in the long term, to switch to doing this other thing that needs to be done is not profitable in the short term, and that is all that matters
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Jun 7, 2023 14:58
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Yeah, it is easier to go with the flow and whatever, it is why so many cheap 5 over 1 are being thrown up, there is it really isn’t feasible to keep on pushing out in a lot of cities so it is easier to throw up some fill in housing without thinking about the rest of it. It isn’t that many American cities aren’t getting more dense, they are but usually in a haphazard manner. Obviously, the decline of a lot of CBDs in many coastal cities has complicated it further. I was looking out of curiosity of some condos built in the late 2000s…you can just tell how poorly they aged already.
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Jun 7, 2023 15:17
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There's a five over one here that is already literally falling apart, was built in 2007 https://www.reddit.com/r/pittsburgh/comments/7346rh/morrow_park_city_apartments/ They've changed the name twice now, which is always a great sign
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Jun 7, 2023 15:30
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Hey PFC or other bikers: my father-in-law needs some new bottles for his bike. he rides like a maniac. he currently has some with a modicum of insulation, 24 oz. what are some really good water bottles?
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Jun 7, 2023 15:43
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CamelBak podium imo
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Jun 7, 2023 15:44
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camelbak podium I don't worry too much about insulation because I'd rather drink lukewarm water than cold
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Jun 7, 2023 15:47
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lol that's exactly what he's got that needs replacing okay then, thanks
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Jun 7, 2023 15:48
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They're the gold standard!
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Jun 7, 2023 15:49
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these are pretty old and he's used some lovely tape to patch a leak in one. I'll find him more of the same.
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Jun 7, 2023 15:49
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spacemang_spliff posted:I would kill to live somewhere like that. It's like living in bobs burgers
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Jun 7, 2023 16:26
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:these are pretty old and he's used some lovely tape to patch a leak in one. I'll find him more of the same. The new ones are way easier to clean than the old models. There's also bivo bottles, if stainless bottles sound interesting. They have an air bypass tube so they can dump water quickly.
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Jun 7, 2023 16:45
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