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DontMockMySmock posted:My point is that he didn't think very hard and very seriously, and by "vibes" you mean "he saw the future (where Ben murders hojillions of people) with his magic powers". if you went back in time and met teenage hitler, you'd think about it for a lot longer than luke did those sound like vibes to me
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Jun 8, 2023 08:00
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Baron von Eevl posted:I wonder if Buscemi's role was added late and entirely because they got Buscemi and he has a serious "this guy is really loving weird and creepy but I also like him" vibe. Make him the weird creep you can't help but love! Reading up on it, Buscemi and the director apparently researched a bunch of famous serial killers to workshop the character's mannerisms and they'd originally approached Tim Roth for the role. The character had been in the script for a while but they did change it up somewhat to suit Buscemi
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Jun 8, 2023 08:05
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Nah, the chuds loved 9 because it retconned loads of 8 and was a "return to form" (i.e. wallowing in notalgia) The chuds did not like 9. No one did.
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Jun 8, 2023 08:26
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DontMockMySmock posted:
I feel the same way as you do on this and still think his death is the highlight of the new trilogy. But I do understand that it might sting some people that no, Luke didn't go on to have a thousand adventures after the films ended. Then again, I was depressed as hell when I first saw it and it was kinda nice to relate to a heroic character from your childhood in that way. And Luke becoming one with the Force after saving all his friends, especially combined with that shot of the Force awakening in some poor kid somewhere, gave a really poetic end to the saga. Just a shame that they still had one more film to go.
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Jun 8, 2023 08:43
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Sobatchja Morda posted:But I do understand that it might sting some people that no, Luke didn't go on to have a thousand adventures after the films ended. I had a similar reaction to Ghostbusters 2 where we discovered that pretty much everyone thinks they're fakers and scam artists now and instead of rewarding them for saving the city from Gozer they sued them for damages and banned them from ghostbusting. It was particularly rough because in between the two movies we got the Real Ghostbusters cartoon series where they went on to have fun exciting adventures all the time and were local celebrities who everyone loved and they got invited to take part in parades and stuff. 
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Jun 8, 2023 08:58
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The chuds did not like 9. No one did. 9 is, by far, the worst movie I have ever watched all the way through, and the only reason I finished it was so I could tell friends exactly how terrible it was.
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Jun 8, 2023 09:57
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Sobatchja Morda posted:I feel the same way as you do on this and still think his death is the highlight of the new trilogy. But I do understand that it might sting some people that no, Luke didn't go on to have a thousand adventures after the films ended. He's already an old man in that scene! According to Wookiepedia, there are about twenty-four years in between the end of Return of the Jedi and Ben and Luke's confrontation. He can have plenty of adventures in that time, and I'm sure the nu-EU will eventually have tons of novels and comics and junk featuring them.
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Jun 8, 2023 10:33
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Sobatchja Morda posted:I feel the same way as you do on this and still think his death is the highlight of the new trilogy. But I do understand that it might sting some people that no, Luke didn't go on to have a thousand adventures after the films ended. Honestly I think despite the understandable criticism of Mandalorian, I really liked Luke's first appearance in it, as someone indeed having his own adventures and having clearly learned from his experiences, and especially that Imperial remnants are flat loving terrified of the man who walked into the throne room of Palpatine with Darth Vader and was the only one to walk out.
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Jun 8, 2023 10:35
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Someone said that the Star Wars problem boils down to the first movie trying to be an entertaining mix of Flash Gordon, cowboys and samurais, and every subsequent iteration trying to be Star Wars, and it's very true.
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Jun 8, 2023 13:57
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Ep8 had Kylo smash up his mask and Reys parents be nobodies, because our new generation of heroes are not defined by their parents and grandparents. Also, they shot a spaceship through another with hyperspace, because it was cool. Then in ep9 Abrams makes Kylo weldsup the mask and makes Rey a Palpatine, because this is Star Wars and we're doing fetch quests and Felicity and nostalgia and cute robots because we haven't got anything else! Also, we're just gonna stop right here and have a conversation about how hyperspacecrashing another ship was stupid as gently caress and won't work again. I'm not saying that you're a misogynist or a racist if you dislike ep8, I'm just saying that you just happen to agree with a bunch of racists and misogynists. And if you ever hear a self-proclaimed Star Wars fan utter the words "Kathleen Kennedy", punch them in the mouth.
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Jun 8, 2023 14:31
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I still can't get over ep9 killing chewbacca and then immediately saying nevermind he's fine, and then doing it again with c3po minutes later. The nerve, the sheer unbridled nerve of it!
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Jun 8, 2023 14:37
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evobatman posted:I'm not saying that you're a misogynist or a racist if you dislike ep8, I'm just saying that you just happen to agree with a bunch of racists and misogynists. This still sounds like guilt by association. Maybe it's good to have your own values and measures so that you're not constantly worried whether you hate a cultural product that evil people also hate. (Full disclosure: as I said, found 7 boring, never bothered with the subsequent ones, don't really consider myself a SW fan other than watching the first one a billion times because we had it recorded from TV)
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Jun 8, 2023 14:43
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John Murdoch posted:Eh, I see their point. The previous movies usually didn't throw you straight into the action and just tell you new characters were a thing now. Boba Fett gets an actual introduction. Hell, the one other movie that does very much start in the thick of it is A New Hope and even then Darth Vader gets some degree of establishment. Like I guess you can argue that we don't see the Death Star plans being stolen and we don't actually see the initial confrontation between the Tantive IV and the Star Destroyer but there's still a bit more build-up than "oh poo poo they got Palpatine somehow off-camera and we're literally in our ships right now zipping off to save him in a big space battle!!". Empire sure as hell didn't start with the actual Battle of Hoth... Yes, exactly.
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Jun 8, 2023 14:44
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A big problem episode 9 had was that they had almost no time to actually develop it since they fired the original writer/director. Then the actual production was a mess with a bunch of stuff filmed and then cut in editing. Like Matt Smith was apparently originally in it.
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Jun 8, 2023 14:53
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Honestly, as I say this as someone who has willing watched the Book of Henry more than once, I would have preferred Trevorrow to direct because it would have been still dumb as poo poo, but it would be weirdly so and not boring at least.
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Jun 8, 2023 14:55
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muscles like this! posted:A big problem episode 9 had was that they had almost no time to actually develop it since they fired the original writer/director. Then the actual production was a mess with a bunch of stuff filmed and then cut in editing. Like Matt Smith was apparently originally in it. Hilarious that The Book of Henry indirectly ruined the Star Wars franchise
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Jun 8, 2023 14:55
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:I had a similar reaction to Ghostbusters 2 where we discovered that pretty much everyone thinks they're fakers and scam artists now and instead of rewarding them for saving the city from Gozer they sued them for damages and banned them from ghostbusting. And Ghostbusters: Afterlife kind of did the same thing again. Like...TWICE, The Ghostbusters proved that some form of life beyond death exists, AND that other dimensions/ancient Sumerian Gods exist, as well as some form of magic (whatever Viggo used to transfer his essence into a painting and then attempting to transfer that to a baby/Rey.) But in Afterlife, it once again resets the status quo so much that Paul Rudd's character has to tell the kids that "oh, you don't know the Ghostbusters? Most people think they were frauds, but plenty of us still believe it was all real." Frauds...despite thousands of people in person, millions on TV (probably BILLIONS, eventually, from re-broadcasts of the footage for YEARS to come), saw an inter-dimensional gateway open up over Central Park West, a towering man made of marshmallow appear, a giant hard candy shell cover the MOMA, and the loving STATUE OF LIBERTY WALKING FROM LIBERTY ISLAND ALL THE loving WAY TO...uhh...Midtown? Wherever that museum is.
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Jun 8, 2023 15:08
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8 is pretty much entirely built on the premise of setting up 9, which makes it hilarious that 9 not only actively invalidated everything it was going for but was an incoherent fuckup that appealed to absolutely nobody. JJ Abrams then literally came out and said "We probably should have had a plan."
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Jun 8, 2023 15:09
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IIRC Trevorrow's Episode 9 script at one point has Commander Hux commit ritual suicide by lightsaber and the script direction for his death includes the so-brazenly-stupid-it's-brilliant description, "He lost the star war." Not that it didn't have massive problems of its own, but we should have gotten that movie.
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Jun 8, 2023 15:11
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Ghost Leviathan posted:8 is pretty much entirely built on the premise of setting up 9, which makes it hilarious that 9 not only actively invalidated everything it was going for but was an incoherent fuckup that appealed to absolutely nobody. Even more annoying, if they'd just let JJ bullshit all three movies from the get go it would have worked out less bad.
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Jun 8, 2023 15:13
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Well Manicured Man posted:IIRC Trevorrow's Episode 9 script at one point has Commander Hux commit ritual suicide by lightsaber and the script direction for his death includes the so-brazenly-stupid-it's-brilliant description, "He lost the star war." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AGvXqviRys Jenny Nicholson's readthrough of the leaked Trevorrow script for episode 9.
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Jun 8, 2023 15:15
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I tried to explain what happened in Star Wars 9 to someone who has seen all the previous Star Wars but didn't care about spoilers and they refused to believe me and thought I was making up some dumb poo poo fan fiction as a joke. The Palpatine Fortnite speech, the sad Lando cameo where Billy Dee looks like he can barely stand, oh no Chewie is dead but not really he was on the other ship, oh no C-3PO has his memory wiped but not really R2D2 has a back-up he didn't tell anyone about, a secret planet where a thousand star destroyers were built and crewed despite needing one of like two artifacts to get there, the star destroyers all have planet destroying dick and balls on the underside, the entire galaxy with every character you remember showing up at the end to save the day, how lazily they handled Carrie Fisher's death, "I'M THE SPY!  ",gently caress the list is endless.I'm not even a huge Star Wars fan but I was legit upset I paid $$$ for something that lazy and dumb.
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Jun 8, 2023 15:24
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The Emperor dropping the bass on a theater sound system was pretty sweet.
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Jun 8, 2023 15:32
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Oh gently caress me I just realized that Abrams probably got the idea of Hux being the spy from Rebels, except in Rebels Agent Kallus actually had a reason to become a spy for the rebellion and had a character arc. Hux had daddy issues.
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Jun 8, 2023 15:33
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:I tried to explain what happened in Star Wars 9 This is actually a fun excercise: try to explain what happens in 9. How we get from a to b? Me and my friends tried once and just couldn't.
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Jun 8, 2023 15:50
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Torquemada posted:Someone said that the Star Wars problem boils down to the first movie trying to be an entertaining mix of Flash Gordon, cowboys and samurais, and every subsequent iteration trying to be Star Wars, and it's very true. Empire is one of the movies ever though? Anyways the point of all this is that excecs are so scared of taking risks that they will just make the same movie over and over again beat by beat because they are afraid no one will like something new with their beloved franchises. Someone a few posts mentioned Ghostbusters and its a great example. Let the implications of your movie let you explore a new space, you don't have to make GB1 three loving times.
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Jun 8, 2023 16:08
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Mooseontheloose posted:Someone a few posts mentioned Ghostbusters and its a great example. Let the implications of your movie let you explore a new space, you don't have to make GB1 three loving times. The implications of the original Ghostbusters movie are that there aren't really any more Ghostbusters movies, the circumstances that made the ghostbusters relevant are presented as a unique moment in history. Making a sequel invalidates the premise of the original, hence the increasingly ridiculous contortions the sequels make to try to square their existence with the original continuity. I guess they could do a take on Akyroyd's original "Ghostbusters go to Hell" concept. The movie establishes that other spiritual dimensions exist but don't normally interact with our world, but there's no reason the Ghostbusters can't go interact with them. But really, they just need to stop trying to make a sequel in continuity with the original altogether and just start making movies based on the cartoon because that's the only thing anyone actually wants anyhow.
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Jun 8, 2023 17:08
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I always kinda liked Ghostbusters 2. More Ernie Hudson getting to do stuff, more Rick Moranis getting to do stuff, Yanush was a fun evil henchman, the hateful bitter cynicism of 70s-80s NYC congealing into a physical substance was a more fun supernatural premise, cooler setpieces (the electric chair ghosts in the courthouse, the ghost train bit, the Statue of Liberty bit), etc. Is it a blatant cash grab rushed out to capitalize on the success of the first one? Yes. Does it go a cool new direction that differentiates it from the first one? No. But I still say it iterates on the established formula well, and sometimes that's all a sequel needs to be. the subsequent sequels all fueled by gimmicks and nostalgia baiting I have no excuses for.
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Jun 8, 2023 17:19
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Ghostbusters basically implied that supernatural events are more like natural disasters like drought, earthquakes, or hurricanes, in that they are rare but high impact. The Ghostbusters business model was more one of pest control where they assumed an ongoing problem. Its not crazy they would go out of business between events. Afterlife was mostly a bad movie because all it wanted to do was have cameos and make callbacks to the first movie, rather than try anything new.
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Jun 8, 2023 17:20
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Asterite34 posted:I always kinda liked Ghostbusters 2. More Ernie Hudson getting to do stuff, more Rick Moranis getting to do stuff, Yanush was a fun evil henchman, the hateful bitter cynicism of 70s-80s NYC congealing into a physical substance was a more fun supernatural premise, cooler setpieces (the electric chair ghosts in the courthouse, the ghost train bit, the Statue of Liberty bit), etc. Is it a blatant cash grab rushed out to capitalize on the success of the first one? Yes. Does it go a cool new direction that differentiates it from the first one? No. But I still say it iterates on the established formula well, and sometimes that's all a sequel needs to be. I have a fondness for this movie also cause it was on comedy central all the time when I was a latch key child. I've probably seen it way more times than the first one. Some of the slime river and underground stuff was genuinely creepy and unsettling to me and I always wondered why everyone hated this movie so much Edit the funniest thing is how Dana has a totally new but also extremely highly skilled career from the first one
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Jun 8, 2023 17:27
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hallo spacedog posted:
I mean...you can just hand-wave it away by saying she studied art history, or something like that, but in GB1 she hadn't managed to find a job in her field, but was ALSO an exceptional cello(?) player, who was simply "making ends meet" in the loving NY Philharmonic before getting that FABULOUS job cleaning up art that definitely pays more than one of the most prestigious music gigs in the world...right? Actually, now that I think about it, the NY Philharmonic probably DOES pay poo poo.
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Jun 8, 2023 17:35
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Pays in exposure
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Jun 8, 2023 17:37
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Baron von Eevl posted:I still can't get over ep9 killing chewbacca and then immediately saying nevermind he's fine, and then doing it again with c3po minutes later. The nerve, the sheer unbridled nerve of it! God it was loving dumb
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Jun 8, 2023 17:46
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Baron von Eevl posted:I still can't get over ep9 killing chewbacca and then immediately saying nevermind he's fine, and then doing it again with c3po minutes later. The nerve, the sheer unbridled nerve of it! Killing Chewbacca and then bringing him back a moment later was maybe the most insulting thing I've ever seen in a theatre.
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Jun 8, 2023 17:58
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Baron von Eevl posted:I still can't get over ep9 killing chewbacca and then immediately saying nevermind he's fine, and then doing it again with c3po minutes later. The nerve, the sheer unbridled nerve of it! I think they did this same thing again in Kenobi.
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Jun 8, 2023 18:07
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Arivia posted:Also, it meant that 25+ years of carefully designed shared setting material to be played in was no longer "canon," so gently caress you if you had your own games using that stuff WotC was just gonna do whatever they wanted. Perestroika posted:I'm feeling nostalgic and rewatching Boston Legal. the holy poopacy posted:The implications of the original Ghostbusters movie are that there aren't really any more Ghostbusters movies, the circumstances that made the ghostbusters relevant are presented as a unique moment in history.
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Jun 8, 2023 18:12
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Tiggum posted:I don't get the issue with this? Who give s a poo poo what's "canon" when you're running your own game? Include whatever you want and leave out whatever you don't like. No one can stop you. Why the gently caress does any of this matter to anyone running or playing a D&D game? With TTRPGs at least it lets all the players come to the table with a baseline knowledge of the world without the DM having to infodump their ideas in session 0. Everyone can know what their characters should reasonably know. Only works if there's a consensus on what that is.
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Jun 8, 2023 18:25
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DrBouvenstein posted:I mean...you can just hand-wave it away by saying she studied art history, or something like that, but in GB1 she hadn't managed to find a job in her field, but was ALSO an exceptional cello(?) player, who was simply "making ends meet" in the loving NY Philharmonic before getting that FABULOUS job cleaning up art that definitely pays more than one of the most prestigious music gigs in the world...right? Looking it up, the musician base pay is over $140k yearly. They just got off a covid contract where everyone got about $3k a week.
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Jun 8, 2023 18:32
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Tiggum posted:Wasn't there a bunch of stuff implying that ghosts have been around for ages and a lot of people know about them? Like the hotel manager basically saying "yeah, all the staff know about the ghost (Slimer) but he's not usually this disruptive". No more so than in the real world. There's nothing that suggests the stories the hotel manager talks about are anything more than your run of the mill "haunted hotel" rumor. And in that world, there actually is an underlying supernatural phenomenon behind all those ghost stories, but it's not something that is observable out in the open. Ghosts are real only in a theoretical sense; they are essentially a form of "dark matter", something that Egon and Ray can get readings from but haven't been able to observe directly. As of the end of Ghostbusters the movie, here is the complete list of supernatural events observed by the most successful ghost hunting team in history: 1) A 6000-year-old cult built a building-sized beacon to use as a battery to power a ritual to open a dimensional gate for their god to access Earth through, which took an entire century to charge up to the point that ghosts started manifesting nearby. 2) Some sponges moved a few inches once.
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Jun 8, 2023 18:34
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I hate to agree with Tiggum, but the movie does establish that there were ghosts before the tower made them more active (isn't the grey lady from the library also supposed to be an older haunting?) Or are you just putting them into the "the tower did it" category?
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Jun 8, 2023 18:40
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