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Miguel is an antagonistic force to Miles, but probably not out of any secret evil motive like he's a vampire or being mind-controlled or anything. Dude's just an edgelord who suffered a brain-breaking tragedy and in classic Spider-man fashion tried to extract some meaning and inner resolve from it. He just put the cart too far before the horse and has come to the conclusion that suffering is not only inevitable, but necessary. Ironically, it takes the sting of responsibility out of his actions if it's just part of a cosmic order he has to support, like some OCD thing where if seemingly arbitrary things don't happen a certain way then something bad will happen. Or put another way, it's the classic "Suffering's good for you. I suffered, and it made me the man I am today. It must have, otherwise what was it all for?" Compare this to The Spot, who also experiences brain-breaking tragedy and by the end extracts the meaning that suffering is an end in itself, and his only goals with his godlike power is just to ruin Miles' life. He felt empty, and the thing he found to fill the hole was... more holes. Asterite34 fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Jun 12, 2023 |
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Jun 12, 2023 21:27
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Captain Jesus posted:Plus, correct me if I'm wrong (because I can't remember this part all that well), Miguel THINKS HE destroyed that universe because he wanted to replace another version of himself that died and because he wanted to have a family. He thought it was ok, but HE BELIEVES it had catastrophic results. This mirrors the story of Kingpin in the first movie, not Miles. Added an important correction that is imo the crux of the whole thing.
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Jun 12, 2023 21:34
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In Gwen's prologue, was it Ned Leeds tormenting Peter in the place of Flash?
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Jun 12, 2023 21:55
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BizarroAzrael posted:In Gwen's prologue, was it Ned Leeds tormenting Peter in the place of Flash? Yes.
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Jun 12, 2023 21:57
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Gwen's theme is so loving good.
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Jun 12, 2023 22:11
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I want to visit melty paint world
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Jun 12, 2023 22:12
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teagone posted:Gwen's theme is so loving good. Yeah the track with her theme and vultures is a fun mix
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Jun 12, 2023 22:14
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I didn't make the connection with Miguel and Kingpin until now and god dammit it's so obvious Personally I'm hoping Miles' parents get to meet Peter B and May, for hilarious parenting talk and a reason to anticipate/dread spider-grandkids.
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Jun 12, 2023 23:25
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Woke up from a dream where I finally got to see part 2 and it turned out it was only 30 minutes long. I was really pissed lol
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Jun 13, 2023 00:33
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Good on the dad for taking his wife's surname so he no longer has to be Jefferson Davis. It had to be hard growing up Black with that one.
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Jun 13, 2023 01:13
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I noticed last night watching the older movie that he's credited as Jefferson Davis, à stealth change I can't imagine anybody really against.
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Jun 13, 2023 01:39
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fatherboxx posted:Failing to tell a complete story in a 2.5 hour cartoon is remarkable. Cant recall a movie doing such a dramatic nosedive into the ground while barely anything happened except setting up another one. I'm getting too old. So many people here that have never seen Back to the Future 2 in a theater. Or Matrix Reloaded.
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Jun 13, 2023 01:39
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goblin week posted:Man I wish the fact that the movie is a part 1 of a two part thing had been mentioned at all inbetween all the praise for animation. Super disappointing. Huh, if anything “awesome animation” and 2 parter is often in the same paragraph
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Jun 13, 2023 01:48
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The Spot is an awesome villain in both concept and execution and it would suck if the next movie just shoved him aside for someone else. But, like, if Miles WAS able to find some common ground with the guy somehow it might solve a lot of problems for a lot of people because he could potentially close the holes caused by breaking cannon events thus allowing fate to be changed.
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Jun 13, 2023 02:07
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Darko posted:I'm getting too old. So many people here that have never seen Back to the Future 2 in a theater. Or Matrix Reloaded. BttF2 basically resolves it's arc and has a satisfying climax. You could write out the cliffhanger and more or less have a complete movie. Now the more important question: is BTTF2 a multiverse movie?
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Jun 13, 2023 02:18
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Nameless Pete posted:Good on the dad for taking his wife's surname so he no longer has to be Jefferson Davis. It had to be hard growing up Black with that one. Gaius Marius posted:I noticed last night watching the older movie that he's credited as Jefferson Davis, à stealth change I can't imagine anybody really against. I have no idea what possessed Bendis to name him that or why the editors let it through. Honestly, it will forever be a blemish on the character's legacy.
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Jun 13, 2023 04:32
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 Can't put my finger on it...
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Jun 13, 2023 04:40
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Darko posted:I'm getting too old. So many people here that have never seen Back to the Future 2 in a theater. Or Matrix Reloaded. Hey I saw Reloaded in theater and it was not nearly as insulting - things happened in that one and basically the whole logic of the world got upended by the end. This one just feels like a hacky tv show going on a midseason break with its story. And just like with Revolutions and Hobbit part 3 as other money splits I fear the last one when its made in 3-4 years is just going to be an action pileup without much to say. fatherboxx fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Jun 13, 2023 |
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Jun 13, 2023 08:02
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Darko posted:I'm getting too old. So many people here that have never seen Back to the Future 2 in a theater. Or Matrix Reloaded. Matrix Reloaded managed to tell a cohesive story in itself
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Jun 13, 2023 09:27
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Nephthys posted:Honestly, Miles' first encounter with the Spot kind of illustrates that Miguel might have a point. Miles is very irresponsible in that scene; not taking Spot seriously at all, demeaning him and just making everything worse. Really, Spot is correct that stealing an ATM is a victimless crime. Spot also wasn't acting violently toward the shop owner at all. Miles didn't really need to intervene. He just exacerbated a situation way out of control. They definitely caused more property damage than was saved in the ATM and he unintentionally made a supervillain really, really loving motivated to do some damage. And he could have taken Spot out before revealing himself if he really thought he needed to, but he wanted to throw out some banter first. property damage is a victimless crime 
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Jun 13, 2023 09:28
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fatherboxx posted:I fear the last one when its made in 3-4 years It comes out next year you stupid bitch
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Jun 13, 2023 09:40
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Bleck posted:It comes out next year you stupid bitch
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Jun 13, 2023 09:46
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I feel that I knew going into Matrix Revolutions that it was a part two of three, but perhaps I was closer to it's production at the time being young and having nothing better to do... Across the Spiderverse blind sided me with the fact it was a two parter, but I had basically figured this out by the time we saw Miles parallel universe as there was no way they were going to resolve all those threads in a film that felt like it missed it's finish deadline several times over. I did hear a few audible groans in the theatre at the conclusion text, but I suspect the overall quality of the film made up for it in most people's minds. It could have been a bit shorter in my opinion - it's quite fatiguing to be assaulted with so much incredible art and motion non-stop for two and a half hours, and I noticed the younger audiences (including my own kids) started to fall off it a bit. It made me wish they'd bring back intermissions. But that will be rectified when available on home media, and I'm glad I saw this in theatres because there's nothing else like it.
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Jun 13, 2023 09:58
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I enjoyed Pavitr even though I thought he was kinda full of himself.
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Jun 13, 2023 11:58
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Arc Hammer posted:I enjoyed Pavitr even though I thought he was kinda full of himself. I mean that's hardly unusual among Spider-people.
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Jun 13, 2023 12:09
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I think that point of him was kind of to give miles a taste of his own medicine (thus the chai tea thing) but he was also awesome
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Jun 13, 2023 12:11
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I mean that's hardly unusual among Spider-people. Yeah I know and I still enjoyed his character. Plus him only being on the job for six months and boasting about how easy it is was a good setup for the reveal that Miles was intentionally being excluded from the club.
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Jun 13, 2023 12:20
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Nameless Pete posted:Good on the dad for taking his wife's surname so he no longer has to be Jefferson Davis. It had to be hard growing up Black with that one. In Miles' timeline it's a perfectly benign name, and the President of their version of the Confederacy was some white guy named Frederick Douglass
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Jun 13, 2023 15:37
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Some sheer suspension of disbelief that ,no one died in Mumbaittan. Did I miss what happened there? Did they manage to contain the city swallowing hole? They made it sound like this was a direct result of Miles breaking the canon event, and my initial thought was it was some sort of universe chain reaction ripping apart their universe, like what supposedly happened with Miguel. But then the they left and nothing more was said, so I gather the anomaly was just Spot making bigger holes as his strength grew.
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Jun 13, 2023 15:59
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Isometric Bacon posted:Some sheer suspension of disbelief that ,no one died in Mumbaittan. They cut back to it at one point to show the spider men on the scene still working to contain the hole in reality, and Miguel says they hopefully were able to contain it. Of course as The Spot grows stronger this might be only a temporary fix until they find a way to defeat him and stop more spacetime anomalies
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Jun 13, 2023 17:28
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They explicitly show it afterwards and say 'with luck that's all it'll do. We aren't always lucky.' So there's still a giant gaping hole in the middle of the city of Mumbattan. That said multiple people have pointed out it looks more like Spots holes, while the Miguel flashback of people and buildings blinking out of existence looks more like the typical anomaly glitching effect we have had since the first movie.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:21
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Have some fanart by Yusuke Murata (the artist of One-Punch Man)
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Jun 13, 2023 18:33
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The most tenuous thing to me about Miguel's understanding is that the universe he saw get wiped out was stressed in a seemingly different way than what his theory says is bad. It doesn't seem like he disrupted a canon event. He just lived in a different dimension for a while and then it fell apart. I know this is a story and the way the multiverse works is as a commentary on stories, but interpreting events with a non-narrative lens makes Miguel's working theory seem insane. Alchemax did a big scary physics experiment and it damaged reality. Spider-Mans seem to have a demonstrable special connection. There is a jump between these observations and "dimensional integrity is predicated solely upon Spider-Man life events." The first movie was about how anyone can be Spider-Man. The second is about being Spider-Man doesn't mean being a specific thing. Maybe the third will be about how there is more to the world than just Spider-Man.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:55
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Wittgen posted:The most tenuous thing to me about Miguel's understanding is that the universe he saw get wiped out was stressed in a seemingly different way than what his theory says is bad. It doesn't seem like he disrupted a canon event. He just lived in a different dimension for a while and then it fell apart. I know this is a story and the way the multiverse works is as a commentary on stories, but interpreting events with a non-narrative lens makes Miguel's working theory seem insane. mystes fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jun 13, 2023 |
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Jun 13, 2023 19:02
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mystes posted:From his perspective he lost his family, he tried to get them back in a way by going to another universe, and then this caused the universe to be destroyed. The way he feels like he disrupted a canon event is by trying to prevent his own suffering which he then decided must have been necessary. Yes, the idea that him losing his family but then living with them in another universe is disrupting a canon event is really pretty contrived. Yes, it's a huge conclusion to jump to that has lots of obvious holes if you're looking on as a neutral observer. But I don't think it's that implausible that he would come up with that theory because it simultaneously explains the two tragedies he went through I don’t think he actually did lose his family to begin with? I think he was just alone and deeply unhappy (because he’s spider-man) and saw an opportunity to make things nicer and then yeah blames himself for wanting to be happy. Depending on his backstory and powers, I wonder if Miguel isn’t also a foil for Spot. Dimension-hopping former Alchemax scientist with no family or friends forced to experiment on himself and turning himself into a monster due to sabotage/negligence by those around him.
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Jun 13, 2023 19:19
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Yeah, I am not criticizing the story for what Miguel believes. Makes a lot of sense. I just think it's interesting to consider how it breaks down, and how the next movie might spin together those inconsistencies into whatever it is going to say about Spider-Man stories.
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Jun 13, 2023 19:38
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I do like that even though most of the Spidermans teamed up to stop Miles they clearly aren't on the same page to totally agree with Miguel and seeing his actions in person throws a lot of doubt onto them. The Spidermans are clearly in the wrong for what they're doing but they're still understandable motivations and not just blind fanaticism.
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Jun 13, 2023 19:49
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Don't know if anyone else would be interested in this but apparently Into the Spider-Verse will be making the rounds through some theaters accompanied by an orchestra. https://twitter.com/spiderverse/status/1668694728102256640?s=46&t=rg4yO9Htx2FBoZvnyslcOg
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Jun 13, 2023 22:51
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 Fingers crossed for a fully fleshed out orchestral rendition of What's Up Danger
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Jun 13, 2023 23:02
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They’re bringing in an actual elephant for the Prowler sound!
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