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It's kinda bullshit that we don't consider someone who owns their own private jet a flight risk.
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Jun 14, 2023 13:49
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Theoretically, but the criteria is flight risk. People have evaded their security details before. I know what you're saying, but I would love to see video of a bumble-gently caress like Trump trying to evade his detail.
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Jun 14, 2023 13:49
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Maybe the pro escape and anti escape factions of security are arguing even know, pulling Trump's sleeves this way and that
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Jun 14, 2023 13:51
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:His arraignment hasn't happened yet because he can't find a lawyer yet. Really? The news was saying that he and his lawyer sat next to the other guy and his two lawyers during the arraignment.
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Jun 14, 2023 13:54
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cr0y posted:It's kinda bullshit that we don't consider someone who owns their own private jet a flight risk. if they could fly they wouldn't need a jet 
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Jun 14, 2023 13:55
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Boris Galerkin posted:Really? The news was saying that he and his lawyer sat next to the other guy and his two lawyers during the arraignment. https://www.ksby.com/trump-co-defendant-walt-nauta-s-arraignment-delayed
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Jun 14, 2023 13:55
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Skippy McPants posted:I know what you're saying, but I would love to see video of a bumble-gently caress like Trump trying to evade his detail. I'm actually not 100% clear from what I've read that he even has a bar on international travel in place. He may have gotten *no* conditions other than not talking to Nauta about his case.
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Jun 14, 2023 13:57
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I'm actually not 100% clear from what I've read that he even has a bar on international travel in place. He may have gotten *no* conditions other than not talking to Nauta about his case. I believe he had to give up his passport too.
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Jun 14, 2023 14:00
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projecthalaxy posted:It's cool that he gets to just walk out no problem and immediately hold events and talk about how it's all a witch hunt and whatever and we all just have to say "yep, its good. justice is manifest" Yes, they took away all the secrets they know for sure he had, and if they get even a whiff of a hint that he's got more boxes of papers somewhere, they'll probably have a search warrant written up by the end of the day to go hunt for them. cr0y posted:It's kinda bullshit that we don't consider someone who owns their own private jet a flight risk. Being a flight risk isn't about ability to flee, it's about willingness to flee. He's running for president of the US, and he can't take Trump Tower or Mar-a-Lago with him overseas. Generally, those sorts of non-portable ties, connections, and ambitions are considered to reduce the chance that someone is a flight risk. Also, it's been very clear for months that he was being investigated for all sorts of poo poo and was likely to be charged. Despite that, he hasn't shown even the slightest sign of wanting to flee the country. That kind of thing also weighs in his favor in a flight risk determination - generally, a flight risk doesn't wait till the last possible second to buy their one-way ticket.
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Jun 14, 2023 14:06
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Boris Galerkin posted:Really? The news was saying that he and his lawyer sat next to the other guy and his two lawyers during the arraignment. I believe he has a lawyer but not one who is allowed to represent him in Florida, or his current attorney has not been cleared to represent him in Florida?
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Jun 14, 2023 14:12
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People almost look forward to Trump loving off to Russia or something, as if he would become a permanent "dissident." But I agree with the idea that he couldn't stay put, he would inevitably attempt to come back rather than fade into obscurity, admit defeat, or risk being cut off from whatever money he has left.
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Jun 14, 2023 14:12
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Main Paineframe posted:Being a flight risk isn't about ability to flee, it's about willingness to flee. He's running for president of the US, and he can't take Trump Tower or Mar-a-Lago with him overseas. Generally, those sorts of non-portable ties, connections, and ambitions are considered to reduce the chance that someone is a flight risk. He absolutely *could* continue to run from overseas, wait the case out, and hope for re-election and pardon. quote:
Another way to say this is "he's an obvious flight risk, but he hasn't fled yet, so he must not be a risk." I mean, I've made similar arguments, but I never expect them to actually work if the client is poor or black or both. I've seen clients get bond denied (on state charges) just because they had family out of state or had a green card instead of citizenship. Meanwhile Jack Teixiera was arrested just sitting on his mother's porch after his story had been in the news for like a week and he'd had ample opportunity to flee, and he didn't, and he was denied bond. Reality Winner was denied bond for leaking one single document because she had made a joking online comment about "finding a place to live in Nepal, ha ha" and because she had other classified information in her head that she might potentially also leak. Meanwhile Trump's still out there farting around, his very existence and access to the internet a giant ongoing security risk because who knows what the gently caress his idiot ham hands might tweet out at any moment. It's an absurd, offensive travesty of justice against anyone who has ever had their bond denied.
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Jun 14, 2023 14:32
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smackfu posted:Do they not track these super secret documents? Based upon my experience in working with the government and classified information: an individual office may track documents it owns within that office. Most don't bother to do extensive record keeping on documents and locations because A) they're in a Secure Facility and as long as no one is leaving with papers then you know the stuff is still in the office; and B) Christ that's a lot of papers to track; I have three incoming intel reports and two summary statements we've written of the three intel reports and then a separate presidential brief with the summary statements incorporated etc. etc. etc. am I individually tracking each of these documents? Should I track the couple of draft versions of those write-ups? Should I track the copy that got passed around for review and edits? So most offices wouldn't bother to track individual documents except in the rare cares that those documents are generated specifically to leave the Secure Facility. But if it sends that information over to another office, well, then it's that other office's responsibility now. All of these documents were originally DoD or DoE and then copies were sent over to the White House as briefings or to support briefings; once they were sent over, my expectation is that the DoE/DoD persons said, "Now it's the White House staff's responsibility to ensure the safekeeping of those copies and track that they aren't lost." So the White House staff should have been tracking these documents but lol lmao lmfao at the idea of the Trump White House even giving a poo poo.
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Jun 14, 2023 14:35
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:He absolutely *could* continue to run from overseas, wait the case out, and hope for re-election and pardon. I'm well aware of the devotion Trump's most fanatical followers have, but I think running for Prez as an expat fugitive might just be a bridge too far for a critical mass of would-be voters.
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Jun 14, 2023 14:37
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Personally, I'm pulling for Trump marrying into the House of Saud for the money, prestige, and also to see if that "no foreign Prince may hold the Presidency" thing pierces the Trump Reality Field
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Jun 14, 2023 14:44
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projecthalaxy posted:Personally, I'm pulling for Trump marrying into the House of Saud for the money, prestige, and also to see if that "no foreign Prince may hold the Presidency" thing pierces the Trump Reality Field . . . . . goddammit. This is what happens next season isn't it why did you call this forth Judgy Fucker posted:I'm well aware of the devotion Trump's most fanatical followers have, but I think running for Prez as an expat fugitive might just be a bridge too far for a critical mass of would-be voters. I mean, we used to say there was no way he'd get elected at all, y'know? I'm not saying it would work or make sense but it's definitely possible from a "risk" perspective. It's no more ludicrous than the reasons given to deny Reality Winner's bond were. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Jun 14, 2023 |
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Jun 14, 2023 14:54
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Anna Bower of Lawfare inadvertently started a 27-hour line to get into the courthouse ahead of the arraignment, and has a thorough writeup. The prosecution suggested hardly any conditions on Trump's bond -- not financial, no surrendering of passport, no restrictions on speech, nothing. The magistrate had to step in and say "whoa there, we can't have no restrictions whatsoever!" and gave some minor conditions. Lawfare posted:But Goodman isn’t willing to be as lenient as the government is with respect to the special conditions of that release. “Despite the parties recommendations,” he says, “I’m going to impose special conditions.” Specifically, Goodman wants Trump to avoid contact with witnesses and victims in the case except through counsel. He asks the government to submit a list of witnesses and victims so that Trump would know whom to avoid by way of abiding by the restriction.
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Jun 14, 2023 15:02
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Tayter Swift posted:Anna Bower of Lawfare inadvertently started a 27-hour line to get into the courthouse ahead of the arraignment, and has a thorough writeup. Ok I can understand why the judge would do this but requiring the prosecution to give Trump a list of specific people he definitely should NOT attempt to contact or manipulate in any way seems potentially counterproductive.
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Jun 14, 2023 15:06
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raminasi posted:Ok I can understand why the judge would do this but requiring the prosecution to give Trump a list of specific people he definitely should NOT attempt to contact or manipulate in any way seems potentially counterproductive. I mean, they're going to have to give them a list of people they possibly intend to call as witnesses either way. They can't just hide who all they intend to call and surprise the defendant.
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Jun 14, 2023 15:13
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Nitrousoxide posted:I mean, they're going to have to give them a list of people they possibly intend to call as witnesses either way. They can't just hide who all they intend to call and surprise the defendant. According to the documentary "Night Court," you are actually allowed and encouraged to constantly call surprise witnesses. Especially during sweeps week.
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Jun 14, 2023 15:16
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Tayter Swift posted:Anna Bower of Lawfare inadvertently started a 27-hour line to get into the courthouse ahead of the arraignment, and has a thorough writeup. I wonder if they didn't want to set conditions because Trump will inevitably say and do dumb poo poo that helps their case.
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Jun 14, 2023 15:17
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greatBigJerk posted:I wonder if they didn't want to set conditions because Trump will inevitably say and do dumb poo poo that helps their case. That was exactly what I was wondering
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Jun 14, 2023 15:19
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:According to the documentary "Night Court," you are actually allowed and encouraged to constantly call surprise witnesses. Especially during sweeps week. Imagining this whole thing as a season of Night Court really improves it.
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Jun 14, 2023 15:19
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Reasons that come to my mind: * Fear that jailing him now could literally spark civil war * Fear that ordering harsh conditions would put the prosecutor or magistrate in personal danger * ~Optics~ of jailing the leading GOP presidential candidate * Trusting that it'd be hard for the most visible person in the world to hide effectively * Belief that his team couldn't put together a scheme to secretly fly his private jet out of the country without being found out first * The longer he's out, the more he'll incriminate himself, loudly Not saying they're good reasons, just spitballing.
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Jun 14, 2023 15:21
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greatBigJerk posted:I wonder if they didn't want to set conditions because Trump will inevitably say and do dumb poo poo that helps their case. My guess was to make it seem as "fair" to Trump as possible.
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Jun 14, 2023 15:23
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All of this talk of Trump fleeing is reminding me of the time when Carlos Ghosn fled Japan in an audio equipment crate. I'd forgotten just how weird that whole situation was.
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Jun 14, 2023 15:27
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Nitrousoxide posted:I mean, they're going to have to give them a list of people they possibly intend to call as witnesses either way. They can't just hide who all they intend to call and surprise the defendant. I wonder how many people only know this because of My Cousin Vinny. Its the only reason I know it.
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Jun 14, 2023 16:21
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What's the next step and when is it?
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Jun 14, 2023 16:21
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Heran Bago posted:What's the next step and when is it? That's a good question. Nauta's arraignment is on the 27th (with a different magistrate), but the Lawfare post didn't mention any next steps for Trump. Given that this magistrate isn't running the trial I suppose it's not his call.
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Jun 14, 2023 16:47
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Heran Bago posted:What's the next step and when is it? There would usually be a scheduling conference where the judge, the prosecution, and the defendant would agree to (or be assigned) due dates for discovery and witness lists and other pretrial work. There will be numerous pre-trial motions by both the defendant and the prosecution to try to dismiss charges, bring in or exclude evidence, and so on. These will go on for several months at a minimum I'm sure.
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Jun 14, 2023 16:51
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Boris Galerkin posted:Really? The news was saying that he and his lawyer sat next to the other guy and his two lawyers during the arraignment. Reporting at the time said Nauta was present as part of his job duties. He was working as Trumps emotional security animal. Which was also doubly hosed because the magistrate judge, unbidden and unasked, wanted to order that trump not be able to talk to any witness. The judge was apparently talked down to “not talk to witnesses about the facts of this case” because otherwise Nauta would be out of a job. Which really makes it seem like he is the perfect fall guy once Trump leaves him out hanging to dry. He seems in no position to turn states witness.
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Jun 14, 2023 17:00
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greatBigJerk posted:I wonder if they didn't want to set conditions because Trump will inevitably say and do dumb poo poo that helps their case. That’s my read. They’re just handing him rope.
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Jun 14, 2023 17:10
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I read that at least for Nauta, the next date is 6/27 where he is expected to have retained local counsel and enter a plea.
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Jun 14, 2023 17:24
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I would understand if they couldn’t have a trial until after, but why not go as far as indictments and then postpone?
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Jun 14, 2023 17:36
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Tayter Swift posted:Reasons that come to my mind: This, plus not requesting restrictions eliminates any argument from Trump's lawyers about how the prosecution's restriction are too disruptive, poor Trump can't even live his normal life, jury members please take pity.
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Jun 14, 2023 17:39
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Charliegrs posted:I wonder how many people only know this because of My Cousin Vinny. Its the only reason I know it.  Did you say "Yuge?"
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Jun 14, 2023 19:05
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Charliegrs posted:I wonder how many people only know this because of My Cousin Vinny. Its the only reason I know it. They were showing My Cousin Vinnie clips in T14 law schools 20 years ago. I bet they are still doing it today.
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Jun 14, 2023 19:14
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Pillowpants posted:I would understand if they couldn’t have a trial until after, but why not go as far as indictments and then postpone? No reason unless you're looking for one. It's typical to drop state charges once federal charges are pending but that's because typically federal defendants are hosed, not looking at a 50 50 shot of being able to pardon themselves federally.
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Jun 14, 2023 19:18
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:No reason unless you're looking for one. It's typical to drop state charges once federal charges are pending but that's because typically federal defendants are hosed, not looking at a 50 50 shot of being able to pardon themselves federally. Also because the federal and state charges usually overlap. Not here of course
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Jun 14, 2023 19:55
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Fulton DA: Trump’s federal indictment will not impact our casequote:New York Attorney General Letitia James recently caused a stir when she said state-led cases against former President Donald Trump would have to be put on hold until the U.S. Department of Justice’s classified documents case plays out.
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Jun 14, 2023 20:55
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