SniperWoreConverse posted:

Sounds like woo but some "lesser" animals, even bugs, seem to know they are alive to some extent.

I guess based on this crab studies are given the same ethics requirements as mouse in some countries. Things like certain jumping spiders and other stuff have supposedly been observed recognizing different objects & need their equivalent of REM sleep. There was also that one study where they gave I think bumblebees different little balls and they would check em out to see if they were food, and then periodically come back and play with them like a game.

Dunno how realistic some of this is but I'm willing to believe consciousness is more like a dial and less like an on-off switch. Prob all animals have this to some level and it's just hard to recognize it in the weirder ones like a lobster or w/e. Probably at least some bugs feel pain & not merely exhibit nociception but iirc some things are so extremely simplified maybe they don't?

Maed posted:

plants feel pain too, pain is simple a signal in response to some physical trauma. when a plant’s leaf is bitten by an animal the cells on the edge of the bite release signals to nearby cells to strengthen their cell walls as well as things like starting extra poison production if the plant can do that sort of thing. they can even signal to other nearby plants to do the same thing. nature sure is amazing too bad we’re working on killing all of it with us

quote:

Chittka’s attitude about what bees are capable of changed over time as he performed studies on how bees learn and process information. During a study 16 years ago, Chittka’s lab set out to determine if bees could learn to avoid predators purely as an adaptive response. The experiment employed a robotic crab spider that lurked in flowers, briefly grabbing a bee and then releasing it unharmed.

After that negative experience, the bees learned to scan the laboratory’s flowers to make sure they were spider-free before landing. But much to Chittka’s surprise, some bees also seemed to exhibit what he describes as a kind of post-traumatic stress disorder. “The bees not only showed predator avoidance but they also showed false alarm behavior,” says Chittka. “After scanning a perfectly safe flower, they rejected it and flew away, seeing a threat where there was none.”

More recently, Chittka and other scientists studied bee behavior in response to fluctuations in the feelgood neurotransmitters dopamine and serotonin. Mood-regulating chemicals increased when bees received a surprise reward of sucrose, similar to when humans enjoy a sweet treat. The improved mood led bees to have more enthusiasm for foraging compared with bees who received no reward. Alternatively, when bees were shaken in a tube or otherwise put in an anxiety-producing situation, dopamine and serotonin decreased. Buchmann reports in his book that studies have discovered bee brains “have their own internal opioid pleasure centers”.

A Bad King posted:

Your personal choices don't matter. Collective action isn't happening. Worrying about the inevitable encroachment of doomsday will only lead to you arriving at doomsday with a heart problem. If you feel better eating no meat, good for you and please continue feeling good and doing that thing. Judging the guy sitting beside you for not flapping their hands hard enough at the flames that have already burned down our house, or into the wind as we all careen down the cliff in the car, just makes you an rear end in a top hat.

Any alien life that might be able to reverse this, or some other miracle of the capital class, is probably just waiting out the period before this all becomes free real estate.

ELTON JOHN posted:

plants do not feel pain

Maed posted:

wtf is this poo poo I didn’t say they were conscious I said they have the same kind of chemical responses to physical trauma as us that lead to a response to stimuli. the owwie part we feel at the end isn’t the point at all and doesn’t matter when talking about suffering it’s just the particular way we happen to suffer

A Bad King posted:

Hyperspace bypass had got to be built

Koirhor posted:

posting on the gamer page in the thread about the end of all life on earth

celadon posted:

ELTON JOHN posted:

they do not suffer, and they do not feel pain, and every reason you can give for thinking that they do is thoroughly debunked in the linked paper

Wakko posted:

humans are historically very bad at evaluating whether or not other living things feel pain. at this point i would assume that rocks feel pain if i saw a detailed paper from a scientist arguing the opposite

silicone thrills posted:

humans can't even evaluate when other humans are in pain for poo poo.

See: all the garbage racist misogynist doctors for a century + who discounted the pain of women and non whites.

nomad2020 posted:

Honey bees can show symptoms that we might call PTSD in a person.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/apr/02/bees-intelligence-minds-pollination

The Voice of Labor posted:

rocks certainly experience sexual frustration. hence the phrase, and rolling stones song, get your rocks off

breathing aids posted:

Oh my god that’s a depressing concept. We’re killing the honeybees and giving the survivors PTSD??

A Bad King posted:

Your personal choices don't matter. Collective action isn't happening. Worrying about the inevitable encroachment of doomsday will only lead to you arriving at doomsday with a heart problem. If you feel better eating no meat, good for you and please continue feeling good and doing that thing. Judging the guy sitting beside you for not flapping their hands hard enough at the flames that have already burned down our house, or into the wind as we all careen down the cliff in the car, just makes you an rear end in a top hat.

Any alien life that might be able to reverse this, or some other miracle of the capital class, is probably just waiting out the period before this all becomes free real estate.

SplitSoul posted:

BeeTSD

A Bad King posted:

Anything done to mitigate climate change is going to help folks who are not alive yet, which is fantastic.

Ain't gonna stop the fact the next gen's kid gonna be late to work at the isolation cube factory because the frame of their bus cracked from -50° humid air coming down from the Arctic death cyclone.

A Bad King posted:

poo poo the Arctic death cyclone is happening next year poo poo sit sorry

celadon posted:

the 'nothing you do individually matters only collective action does' is the most nihilistic poo poo and anyone espousing it is trying to run a smokescreen up so they cant be criticized for any action, regardless its environmental impact

just vile