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I’ll cop to not reading most of the post but “yeah some of torment’s side quests are trite but if you get bored of it you can beat up some mobs in combat that’s worse than baldur’s gate 1 to feel like you accomplished something” 
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Jun 27, 2023 00:41
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H13 posted:When he found out he had done something shite, he was either a mewling apologist, glib rear end in a top hat or unrepentant dick. Surely there's a middle-ground between those three somewhere?
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Jun 27, 2023 00:51
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I honestly never noticed it taking a long time to get on or off my horse in RDR2 so that whole post sounds clinically insane to me.
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Jun 27, 2023 00:55
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zhuge liang posted:sid meier and american mcgee feeling pretty vindicated right now Sid Meier designed exactly 1 Civ game and I still see people discuss any of them in terms of his supposed design decisions
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Jun 27, 2023 00:56
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PoontifexMacksimus posted:Sid Meier designed exactly 1 Civ game and I still see people discuss any of them in terms of his supposed design decisions ACHSHCHUALLY he also designed Civ Rev. (It's really good, I still love it.)
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Jun 27, 2023 01:00
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I genuinely don't understand how you can hold up Torment as great but find Disco Elysium to be tedious and overwrought unless you think a good story must include "genocide, betrayal, heartbreak, insanity, being legitimately loving hideously evil etc." But Disco includes all of that. The game isn't respecting one's time? What does that even mean?
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Jun 27, 2023 01:02
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christmas boots posted:I honestly never noticed it taking a long time to get on or off my horse in RDR2 so that whole post sounds clinically insane to me. I mean I have never played rdr2 but I have definitely heard people complain about the lovingly crafted yet unskippable animations for skinning a puma or taking a poo poo or whatever but the difference here is that those animations are (I presume) the same every time, whereas new passages of writing are always new writing. now maybe someone doesn't like the writing (and is therefore a philistine) but it's not repeated. unless the issue is that they let repeated dialogue play in full every time rather than skipping it, maybe
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Jun 27, 2023 01:05
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christmas boots posted:I honestly never noticed it taking a long time to get on or off my horse in RDR2 so that whole post sounds clinically insane to me. This example works perfectly for me. That stuff and RD2's general pacing and material constantly was at odds with what I expected and wanted, so I soured on it and fell off the game, while Disco was instantly captivating even when the beginning was alienating and slow. If it works for you, it works for you. I think you need to embrace Disco's writing style to get the right experience. If that guy has gotten through that much of the game without enjoying it, then that's a major problem that won't turn itself around.
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Jun 27, 2023 01:06
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Since this thread has been far more active than I expected, I'm not sure if everyone had already seen this video from a couple of days ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnlcSXqquFg
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Jun 27, 2023 01:18
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World War Mammories posted:I mean I have never played rdr2 but I have definitely heard people complain about the lovingly crafted yet unskippable animations for skinning a puma or taking a poo poo or whatever Ok yeah the skinning animations I do agree with for sure
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Jun 27, 2023 01:42
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Harry isnt all that brilliant, if you read how he cracked all the cases he did in his ledger, well if he is the worlds greatest cop then that's a really low bar.
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Jun 27, 2023 07:06
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TBF I don't think the ledger has all the cases you've ever done. They're probably more recent ones and probably look at a bit different than Harry's work before he started falling apart
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Jun 27, 2023 07:09
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Nah I get it, Day One of Disco Elysium feels really frustrating because mostly all you get done is see the game very slowly start to draw back the curtain on what the world is and what kind of game you are playing, meanwhile you have about enough time to run into a few roadblocks on your map exploration and if you do manage to get past them then you have a chat with a Union boss which doesn't seem to actually help you with the murder any. In hindsight it's fine and when you realise there's no time pressure then on subsequent playthroughs you can run off and enjoy the little rabbit hole interactions that don't seem to have anything to do with the murder at all, but on a first playthrough I can see how it's both overwhelming and underwhelming at the same time.
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Jun 27, 2023 07:58
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The fact that you feel 'just get on with it' re. DE and not Planescape is... Astounding to me, since THAT was the major reason I stopped playing the latter. Any chance there was of an interesting lore exploration was punctuated with some of the most tedious, unnecessary and unintuitive combat mechanics I had ever had the misfortune to encounter in a game. I'm sure the story/characters was/were compelling. But the gameplay prevented me from enjoying any of that. Just like with Spiritfarer.
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Jun 27, 2023 09:16
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I'd say at this point it's pretty clear that DE isn't for them, which is fine, no game is going to going to be universally loved by all, but I guess my response to the criticism would be that the slower pace is merely the expression of different genre conventions. Most RPGs (and games in general) tend to be grand sweeping fantasy epics where your actions are deciding the fate of the world, or at least thousands of lives. By extension this means all your actions are commensuratly grand; most RPGs will have an opening side quest in the first few hours where you decide the fate of a village with hundreds of people in it. In contrast DE is a (somewhat) grounded work of detective fiction, which by extension brings a completely different set of conventions and scales. It's rare for a work to have a body count that goes out of the low single digits, and often the single death will have occurred before the start of the work; the stakes will be bringing a single individual to justice. This means that what is considered a significant action in the story is going to be a lot more understated, investigating the body of the victim or interviewing a key suspect for example. If you approach that first day through the lens of detective fiction then you pretty clearly hit some major beats, whereas on the flipside if you measure what you did on the terms of a fantasy epic then they're going to seem fairly paltry. On a shorter point I'll add that if you're rushing through the writing to get to more content then you're definitely not going to enjoy the game; the writing is the content.
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Jun 27, 2023 09:50
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H13 posted:Torment felt like it was going somewhere and doing something The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled
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Jun 27, 2023 10:09
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His name is Chris Avellone and he's spent the past twenty something years trying to pull that same trick again to varying degrees of success
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Jun 27, 2023 10:14
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I will say that DE is a pretty small stakes game. Yeah the main character is not gonna change the fate of universes (or is he?), the game is a lot about the shifts in his relationship with Kim, for instance. If that isn't enough for you, too bad.
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Jun 27, 2023 10:19
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There is a lot of grappling with tough issues, though, especially in the second half of the game. The whole spectre of communism thing permeates a lot of the interactions and exploration. Like, the murder mystery is a framing device for exploring the themes presented in conversations and exploration, and I think that first day slog is supposed to be a bit of a rug pull cause once you talk to the Hardies and Klaasje it becomes apparent so much more is going on, even if you're focusing only on the mystery angle. Like, the game has depictions of genocide and horrors of war in it. That content is certainly there. It's just not immediate. And if you want a talking skull there is a certain tie...
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Jun 27, 2023 10:27
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I mean, we don't really need to poo poo on Torment to say DE is good. They're both good games. And you're allowed to not like either of them, but our dude perhaps needs to work on separating their emotional reaction from, like, what something actually does.
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Jun 27, 2023 10:45
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The current any% speedrun record is 26m 04s for Disco Elysium and 20m 38s for Planescape: Torment.
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Jun 27, 2023 15:58
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shame there's no fan% speedrun joke category
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Jun 27, 2023 16:15
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dervival posted:shame there's no fan% speedrun joke category https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLuOu8OWAEA
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Jun 27, 2023 16:50
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GlyphGryph posted:I've talked to people who spent hours playing, say, Outer Wilds, and had the same problem "I've been playing for hours and haven't ACCOMPLISHED anything!" and I've been equally perplexed there. Don’t know how anyone could play Outer Wilds for hours and feel they haven’t accomplished anything. Landing on another planet successfully is a pretty big accomplishment imo
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Jun 27, 2023 17:25
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GlyphGryph posted:I've talked to people who spent hours playing, say, Outer Wilds, and had the same problem "I've been playing for hours and haven't ACCOMPLISHED anything!" and I've been equally perplexed there. "Her Story is not a game! What do you actually accomplish in it?!"
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Jun 27, 2023 17:48
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theCalamity posted:Don’t know how anyone could play Outer Wilds for hours and feel they haven’t accomplished anything. Landing on another planet successfully is a pretty big accomplishment imo I think that game just breaks people's brains. The responsibility of learning stuff and trying new stuff is not what a good amount of people look for in games, or at least it's unfamiliar and unexpected. But that's exactly when games get really good, to me.
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Jun 27, 2023 17:53
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theCalamity posted:Don’t know how anyone could play Outer Wilds for hours and feel they haven’t accomplished anything. Landing on another planet successfully is a pretty big accomplishment imo Yeah the whole early game seems like a relentless stream of accomplishing stuff, so like I said I don't get it. But it is far and away the leading criticism I've seen of the game from people who bounced off it.
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Jun 27, 2023 18:02
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Feeling accomplished from your actions in a video game is going to be a matter of perspective, I suppose. Within the first few hours of Disco Elysium I got a lady to bring her kid indoors out of the cold and was given a hat, it felt like a big deal for my character who had been such an unmitigated disaster up to that point. If my expectations for what HBD could or should be accomplishing were much higher, that would have felt different.
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Jun 27, 2023 19:15
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I think my biggest emotional triumph was not loving up the conversation with the working class woman.
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Jun 27, 2023 20:21
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MassTran posted:What sold me on Disco Elysium was when I got owned by Cuno so hard I lost the game I want to have gently caress with you is when the game had me. Trying and failing to give Garte the double bird is when I knew the game had me.
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Jun 27, 2023 21:08
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H13 posted:
How many points did you have in Encyclopedia? Edit: to not make this pithy I deffo understand not getting along with the game, not everything is for everyone. Encyclopedia in particular is sort of a trap skill in that it will happily blather forever about boxers and bands but never actually impart anything useful. NmareBfly fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Jun 27, 2023 |
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Jun 27, 2023 21:25
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Orange Devil posted:I want to have gently caress with you is when the game had me. Succeeding in giving Garte the double bird and realising that was actually worse and much less fun than failing was when it had me.
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Jun 27, 2023 21:52
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NmareBfly posted:How many points did you have in Encyclopedia? Encyclopedia is the money and exp skill (with the right Thought), it makes you better at everything else. Wouldn't necessarily call it a trap.
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Jun 27, 2023 21:57
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It was probably bad design to have it be the signature skill of what's basically the default class (first on the left of premade characters)
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Jun 27, 2023 22:21
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What kind of sick gently caress doesn't worship Measurehead?
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Jun 27, 2023 22:24
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Yeah skill breakdowns are also going to impact how the game plays out a lot. Like, you want some fantastical poo poo? Put points into Inland Empire and Shivers.
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Jun 27, 2023 22:33
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:Encyclopedia is the money and exp skill (with the right Thought), it makes you better at everything else. Wouldn't necessarily call it a trap. A trap in terms of getting loads of huge mostly irrelevant lore dumps on your first play through, not in terms of mechanical power. Disco isn’t really about the latter anyway, and the former can be off putting for a new player who’s not yet invested in the setting
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Jun 27, 2023 23:10
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Wafflecopper posted:A trap in terms of getting loads of huge mostly irrelevant lore dumps on your first play through, not in terms of mechanical power. Disco isn’t really about the latter anyway, and the former can be off putting for a new player who’s not yet invested in the setting How much encyclopedia due you need for the Litany of Contact Mike? You should have at least that much.
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Jun 27, 2023 23:14
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christmas boots posted:I think my biggest emotional triumph was not loving up the conversation with the working class woman. I was the ultimate empathetic cop and this was the one check I rolled snake eyes on
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Jun 27, 2023 23:31
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Party Boat posted:I was the ultimate empathetic cop and this was the one check I rolled snake eyes on You should be more like Contact Mike
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Jun 28, 2023 00:38
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