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20m a year doesn't sound that bad? That's like 1.5 steps above an MLE and we are just talking about FVV for 40m/yr.
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Jun 28, 2023 20:48
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Bulls should extend lonzo another three years
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Jun 28, 2023 20:50
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locking up the 2nd best nikola in the league long term is important also vuc was significantly better from the field last year than fred van vleet lol
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Jun 28, 2023 20:50
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R.D. Mangles posted:Who else in the NBA is giving Vooch anything close to that? The most I ever saw about his free agent market was, like, "The Spurs have money so maaaaaybe they'd play Vucevic next to Wemby? Or uh, maybe the Rockets if they strike out on Lopez...probably not though..." I get the idea that letting Vucevic walk is not going to open up any cap space for the Bulls so they might as well keep him, but I really don't think he's going to be a guy you can trade in three months if you want to on that contract. I absolutely would have let him get to free agency actually opening and invited him to find someone willing to pay him more than the MLE (or give up assets in a S&T). The most depressing thing to me is that we've locked in the worst part of the core of this team, so either we're stuck with another year of uninspiring mediocrity or we trade one of the guys I actually like
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Jun 28, 2023 20:50
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yeah I think in a vaccum Vooch at 20 million is fine. It largely just depends on whether this loving team is willing to act like a big boy team and go into the tax. If not, then nothing they do other than trade everyone and complete rebuild makes any sense. if they are willing to go into the tax, then they have a number of good opportunities.
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Jun 28, 2023 20:51
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Hey look another contract that isn’t a vet min, MLE, or max
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Jun 28, 2023 20:53
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The other thing about Vucevic is that he's a big man who's about to turn 33 and already not great defensively. The contract is prrrobably fine if he can constantly shoot like he did last season, but there's no reason to actually believe he can constantly shoot like he did last season because his year-to-year numbers are all over the place. If he has a bad shooting year while his defense falls off due to age, things could get really ugly fast
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Jun 28, 2023 20:53
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Vooch is mediocre, every team he’s on is mediocre, and for that reasons he and the Bulls and maybe all of Chicago are a match made in heaven
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Jun 28, 2023 20:55
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R.D. Mangles posted:Who else in the NBA is giving Vooch anything close to that? 1/7th of the cap for a solid starter seems rather cheap to me, tbh.
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Jun 28, 2023 20:55
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Kibner posted:1/7th of the cap for a starter seems rather cheap to me, tbh. It's a fair price for him in a vacuum but there's no market for him outside of Chicago.
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Jun 28, 2023 20:57
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I don't think 20M is all that bad, and who knows, maybe it declines. No, he's not a defensive player, but he's a healthy and available one that could fill a regular-season / injury replacement need on a contender at mid-season.
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Jun 28, 2023 20:59
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nm
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Jun 28, 2023 20:59
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I do like Vooch, and he is a good player, but his problems are that he is a tough fit with Zach and DeMar and he will get absolutely owned by every big man the Bulls have to go through to make the promised land (round 2 of the playoffs). Also I know his percentage isn't bad but I can't psychologically watch him brick wide open threes anymore.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:03
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OzFactor posted:I don't think 20M is all that bad, and who knows, maybe it declines. No, he's not a defensive player, but he's a healthy and available one that could fill a regular-season / injury replacement need on a contender at mid-season. So the upside of this deal is what, eventually trading him to the Lakers at the deadline for a package centered around Mo Bamba? Great.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:03
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xbilkis posted:The other thing about Vucevic is that he's a big man who's about to turn 33 and already not great defensively. The contract is prrrobably fine if he can constantly shoot like he did last season, but there's no reason to actually believe he can constantly shoot like he did last season because his year-to-year numbers are all over the place. Vooch is fine defensively much in the same way that like Jokic is fine defensively. Vuc is never going to be a player who can wipe out mistakes from other players, but when it comes to playing in a defensive system, and being in the right position. He's almost always in the right place. He was the Center in a defense that was a top 10 defense in the league last year. xbilkis posted:The most I ever saw about his free agent market was, like, "The Spurs have money so maaaaaybe they'd play Vucevic next to Wemby? Or uh, maybe the Rockets if they strike out on Lopez...probably not though..." Vooch is a very very good player still. Vooch is not the worst part of the core of this team. 20 million a year for 18 and 12 or whatever a year, for someone who is a plus passer, and solid generally. I generally think the core is *fine* I would probably trade Demar to free up on ball touches for Pat to see if he's anything. But the problem with the Bulls has just simply been the PG position and the Role players. If the Bulls had anyone who could take advantage of the open shots that Zach/Demar/Vooch, are capable of generating the Bulls offense might not be so loving dire. But they are playing Javonte, DJJ, Drummond, Ayo, Caruso heavy minutes all dudes who can't reliably shoot. Lonzo was someone who could put up volume 3's at a high clip and be an elite connector and passer without needing to have the ball in his hands. Even when the loving Bulls brought in Pat Bev, his level of play was able to propel them to a nice run at the end of the year. And he's loving Pat Bev. This offseason the Bulls should have access to, the full MLE, the Bi-annual, and the Disabled Player Exception of around ~10 million. Using all of those will put them in the tax, but it would allow them to sign 3 solid rotation players, preferably shooters. I would kick the tires on Tyus Jones, or Monte Morris, and see what the Wizards want for either of them as far as a PG goes.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:05
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Dexo posted:Using all of those will put them in the tax, but it would allow them to sign 3 solid rotation players, preferably shooters. I would kick the tires on Tyus Jones, or Monte Morris, and see what the Wizards want for either of them as far as a PG goes. I think your overestimating what the Bulls are going to be able to pull in Free Agency.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:10
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R.D. Mangles posted:I do like Vooch, and he is a good player, but his problems are that he is a tough fit with Zach and DeMar and he will get absolutely owned by every big man the Bulls have to go through to make the promised land (round 2 of the playoffs). Also I know his percentage isn't bad but I can't psychologically watch him brick wide open threes anymore. Vooch is a tougher fit with Demar, not a tough fit at all with Zach. But Demar unfortunately is the only ball handler between him, Zach, Coby, Ayo, Caruso, etc that you feel good about making the right decisions in late game situations. If the Bulls can somehow trade or acquire a point guard better than Pat Bev my outlook for them this year jumps back up to like the 7th/6th seed, vs 10th - 8th seed.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:10
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Ghost Dog posted:fvv is a barely over 20% usage guy with fine but not great shooting who also averages a fine not great amount of assists. if he is your lead ball handler he is not adding wins hes just treading water The Rockets have been looking for an answer to Steph for years. Are you really going to be the one to tell them "no" now that one's finally available?
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Jun 28, 2023 21:15
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Hand Knit posted:The Rockets have been looking for an answer to Steph for years. Are you really going to be the one to tell them "no" now that one's finally available? dennis schroder and matty delly are both available, probably
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Jun 28, 2023 21:16
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Lockback posted:I think your overestimating what the Bulls are going to be able to pull in Free Agency. Huh? I don't know what the Bulls are going to be able to pull off, I'm saying that's what I'd do. There are plenty of free agent role player shooters out there who won't get more than the MLE on the market. Like what's Yuta Watanabe's contract gonna look like? What is Seth Curry gonna make etc etc. All I'm saying is if the Bulls are willing to not be cheap asses and willing to go into the tax, there are certainly moves out there to be made to make this team better and at least fix the shooting and spacing problems they have.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:17
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Dexo posted:20 mil a year isn't the worst I guess Who was even paying him $15 million? The guy is 33 and this team is bad. And the Bulls aren't going into the tax.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:18
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https://twitter.com/chicagobulls/status/1674147352641142784?s=20
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Jun 28, 2023 21:19
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https://twitter.com/FlyByKnite/status/1674139046262767616?s=20 Everything I've read about the new CBA makes it sound like the NBPA just folded on everything the owners demanded in exchange for being able to smoke weed (which they could already do??? i don't recall any notable suspensions for marijuana use recently) and take sponsorships from gambling companies.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:21
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afatwhiteloaf posted:https://twitter.com/FlyByKnite/status/1674139046262767616?s=20 Wait, players can be actively remunerated by gambling companies now? That seems like the world's most obvious conflict of interest.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:23
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The Bulls somehow found a worse front office than GarPax. Reinsdorf keeps the hits coming.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:24
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afatwhiteloaf posted:https://twitter.com/FlyByKnite/status/1674139046262767616?s=20 replacing the old couple who made the schedule with an algorithm has been a disaster for the human race
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Jun 28, 2023 21:25
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New NBA season going to be like that New Years episode of Pete & Pete
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Jun 28, 2023 21:26
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If you bring back Vooch, you have to bring back Javonte as part of Montenegro National Team Solidarity
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Jun 28, 2023 21:27
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The bulls are going to put of a good fight in the play-in if everyone stays healthy.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:27
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Niwrad posted:Who was even paying him $15 million? The guy is 33 and this team is bad. Probably a number of teams would be willing to pay him 15 million. Teams are paying Nurkic 18 million. Dude has been consistently 18-20 and 12 for like 20 years lmao. His game doesn't rely on athleticism. I'm not particularly worried about him falling off.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:28
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Dexo posted:Vooch is a very very good player still. Vooch is not the worst part of the core of this team. When I say "core" I mean the DeRozan/LaVine/Vucevic nucleus of a roster that's gone 86-78 over the past two seasons, and I'm pretty comfortable saying Vucevic is the worst part of that group. Also, Vucevic was good last season (when he shot 52% from the field and 35% on threes), but he was not really good the season before (when he shot 47% from the field and 31% on mostly wide-loving-open threes), so I'm pretty hesitant to call him a "very very good player" going forward. His scoring efficiency is highly variable from year to year over his entire career because his outside shot is inconsistent and he doesn't draw fouls. These flaws are probably not going to get better with age And I just have a hard time getting past the fundamental fact that I think Vucevic is a bad fit on this team, because his primary skill is volume scoring, but there are two other guys on this team whose primary skill is volume scoring and they generally do it at a much more efficient rate. He's not the primary problem with this roster — the $20 million hole at PG and the dogshit back end of the rotation are bigger problems — but from a resource allocation perspective, I'd rather turn Vucevic into a defensive/rimrunning center or some additional perimeter shooting even if it means taking a hit on the overall talent level of the roster, because I think you'd benefit from the improved balance.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:28
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Dexo posted:
Me neither - dude can only jump about two inches so it’s hard for him to get very high
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Jun 28, 2023 21:30
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https://twitter.com/fredkatz/status/1674153520969162756?s=46
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Jun 28, 2023 21:34
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R.D. Mangles posted:Them signing Rose would be the nadir. Well UChicago probably hasn't produced more than 10 or 12 NBA ready players in recent years
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Jun 28, 2023 21:37
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afatwhiteloaf posted:https://twitter.com/FlyByKnite/status/1674139046262767616?s=20 The players are in a bad spot because if they're locked out, there's nothing else for them to do. The broadcast networks would never back a players owned alternate NBA. So they just keep backpedalling.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:46
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Bulls listed as potential top landing spot for Derrick Rose https://sports.yahoo.com/bulls-listed-potential-top-landing-130043096.html Bulls financial decisions called into question: ‘Make it make sense’ https://sports.yahoo.com/bulls-financial-decisions-called-sense-170045180.html Strawberry Panda posted:I can't imagine you'd go from having Kyrie, Harden and Durant, not being able to win anything with them, trading them all, then thinking Dame will get you closer to winning a championship. They were close with that trio despite Kyrie's vaccine aversion and a lot of injuries. Nic Claxton has been in the league for four years now and has steadily improved each year. Prime Claxton with sage Lillard could be a contender.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:50
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xbilkis posted:When I say "core" I mean the DeRozan/LaVine/Vucevic nucleus of a roster that's gone 86-78 over the past two seasons, and I'm pretty comfortable saying Vucevic is the worst part of that group. Also, Vucevic was good last season (when he shot 52% from the field and 35% on threes), but he was not really good the season before (when he shot 47% from the field and 31% on mostly wide-loving-open threes), so I'm pretty hesitant to call him a "very very good player" going forward. His scoring efficiency is highly variable from year to year over his entire career because his outside shot is inconsistent and he doesn't draw fouls. These flaws are probably not going to get better with age This loving team does not need a rim running or defensive center more than it needs Vooch's shooting. Vooch had a bad shooting year 2 years ago. That happens. Last year he wasn't even spectacular, it was largely him just shooting his career averages. Like I guess if the Bulls could have gotten Lopez sure, but like the Bulls need someone at the Center offensively who is far more capable of shooting, passing and creation for others than any rim running big can give them. Since they don't have volume range shooting at any other position besides Zach, and Coby. Not signing Vooch wouldn't have given them any more freedom to do anything, other than losing talent and avoiding the Luxury Tax more overtly.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:52
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jackofarcades posted:Steph Klay Wiggins Dray Looney Maybe CP3 will finally come off the bench. IIRC He might have the official record for most games played while never coming off the bench. Spacebump posted:Wemby announced he is skipping the FIBA WC this summer. And so it begins... i am a moron posted:Really not sure how or why anyone would follow or care about Brooklyn. Would legit be better for everyone if they became the swamp donkeys or whatever and went back to NJ and embraced their stank as a franchise 
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Jun 28, 2023 21:53
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afatwhiteloaf posted:https://twitter.com/FlyByKnite/status/1674139046262767616?s=20 Hmm …I’m seeing more load management and/or an increase in soft tissue injuries
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Jun 28, 2023 21:55
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Like the Bulls defense was fine last year. by some ratings they were a top 5 defense. by points allowed they were a top 7 defense. Vucivic is not a liability defensively. except against dudes that like make every center but the most elite defensive centers a liability defensively.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:58
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