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Rappaport posted:Okay, this thread made me re-watch the show because it's fun and wonderful and it's a Friday, and uh So I took the plot of She-Hulk as Jen being able to control her emotions successfully, unlike Bruce, so being a hulk was almost like wish fulfillment - she got her dream job (sort of), easily physically dealt with issues, and so on - until she realized being She-Hulk also made her vulnerable in different ways. The ending with handwaving everything away just seems to either admit they painted themselves into a corner, or, that the story didn't really matter, because the final villain wasn't really a big deal anyway. I'm not upset by the ending - it just feels out of place given how tight the rest of the season was. The previous points where Jen/Shulk reaches out to the audience were as an aside, not as any sort of conclusion. Of course, season 2 could come back with the real villain having been Titania, Leader, or whoever, and that's fine, too.
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Jul 2, 2023 18:08
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She-Hulk's ending did read more of indulgence and a certain degree of cowardice to completely reset it all, which is a shame because as a whole the show is one of the best of the D+ bunch. I did really like the call-out for "why tf is everything smashing together in the final episode? this is too much and narratively inconsistent." Looking at you Hawkeye.
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Jul 2, 2023 18:14
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How was it her dream job? She had to navigate around all sorts of conflict issues, like Blonsky being a guy who tried to kill Bruce, and she was aghast at having to portray as She-Hulk for the job. Of course it's difficult to separate what's meant to be funny and what's actual plot, like Titania being a joke but a lovely one, and K.E.V.I.N. obviously obfuscates that completely. I think the story matters, because Jen has to deal with similar stuff as Bruce did, but it's also different because she can also "be" She-Hulk, and the show kind of under-lines this with the romance plot-lines. The broseph plot-line specifically ends with Jen telling K.E.V.I.N. off, but she also had the encounter with the hot guy who liked She-Hulk and not Jen and he wasn't a douche, just a guy who liked tall ladies (presumably). And this influenced Jen, and her struggle with being She-Hulk. The original contention was that the bros plot-line was dumb, and the show terminates that, but it was dumb, and not all that meaningful. There's a whole episode of Jen doing group therapy about her stuff with Blonsky's, uh, friends, and that informs us more of her character than anything any of the blood-stealing bros do. The fact that she stands up, as Jen, against K.E.V.I.N. at the end means she's far more powerful and has more agency than she did at the start of the show, where they keep emphasizing she's just starting her legal career for realsies, and the show is about Jen and She-Hulk, right? Of course the K.E.V.I.N. stuff is silly, but She-Hulk has to be silly for Marvel reasons.
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Jul 2, 2023 18:25
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https://twitter.com/StreamrEnt/status/1675196440904101889 Speaking of Marvel having too much stuff
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Jul 2, 2023 18:35
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Calling it now, Echo will be a show that gets middling to low reviews and I will somehow adore it and will be starting forums drama with people who think is sucks.
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Jul 2, 2023 18:55
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live with fruit posted:https://twitter.com/StreamrEnt/status/1675196440904101889 and yes if there wasn't a writers' strike it would probably just get vaulted
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Jul 2, 2023 19:06
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I'm torn on all the Echo doomsaying because, while the build up in Hawkeye wasn't the most compelling and I'm not sure the world really needs an Echo show, it also feels just like with Batgirl where I'm going to heavily question any accusations that this thing is so poo poo they don't want to put it out considering the absolute shite they've put out at points. With both of them it was supposedly test audiences and execs who saw them, gave the bad scores/opinions and that's where these stories are coming from mainly right? Well both of those groups are usually comprised of complete loving idiots. Then a bunch of twitter accounts and youtubers are parroting that either just because that is the story or it plays into their "new woke marvel stuff is poo poo" narrative depending on what their brand is. Just seems like it'll probably be middling at worst and if it does do poo poo then it'll just be used as an excuse to continue rarely casting women of colour/disabled folks as leads in shows which I'd prefer not happen. I hope it turns out to be great and surprises everyone I guess.
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Jul 2, 2023 19:08
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It sucks that the "get woke, get broke" chuds will jump all over it but for as bad as stuff like Quantumania is, Marvel's never put out anything even Morbius/Black Adam bad so there's room for Echo to be particularly awful.
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Jul 2, 2023 19:14
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The Echo stuff in Hawkeye just wasn't very interesting The only thing that I enjoyed related to that was them getting Kingpin back
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Jul 2, 2023 19:16
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mind the walrus posted:After Endgame you really think the leadership would have stepped back and gone "Ok so our heavy hitters are out, time to focus on selling everyone on new characters" instead of presuming interest/fealty. It is absolutely not working out for them and you can find posts of mine going back 20 years throwing support behind this engine.
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Jul 2, 2023 19:38
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They're also leaving characters on the shelf a lot longer. It used to be that everyone pops up every two or three years but it's been two years already for Shang-Chi and the Eternals and they've got nothing announced coming up.
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Jul 2, 2023 19:54
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There's a Shang-Chi 2 in development but who knows when that comes out I would be surprised if we get more Eternals
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Jul 2, 2023 19:58
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At some point, they're going to have to acknowledge the giant stone alien sticking out of the ocean.
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Jul 2, 2023 20:02
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live with fruit posted:At some point, they're going to have to acknowledge the giant stone alien sticking out of the ocean. I hope they have some Elon Musk stand in try to convert it into a hotel and casino. Actually, Elon is canon to the MCU, just make it him doing it.
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Jul 2, 2023 20:06
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They should have made Jimmy Woo the new Coulson. Randall Park is so fun in the role and could have been the connective tissue phase 4 has lacked and used to introduce/re-introduce more obscure heroes.
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Jul 2, 2023 20:08
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Firebert posted:They should have made Jimmy Woo the new Coulson. Randall Park is so fun in the role and could have been the connective tissue phase 4 has lacked and used to introduce/re-introduce more obscure heroes. I hope they do that. I think we are at a place where everyone is so scattered, and since Ant-Man is the one most aware of the coming threat, he will lean on his BFF.
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Jul 2, 2023 20:10
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live with fruit posted:They're also leaving characters on the shelf a lot longer. It used to be that everyone pops up every two or three years but it's been two years already for Shang-Chi and the Eternals and they've got nothing announced coming up.
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Jul 2, 2023 20:29
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Soonmot posted:I didn't mean they should take a break from movies, just that those movies should be smaller stakes. I'm a quantumania liker, but that should not have been an antman movie. Our first was about reconnecting with Scott's family, our second was about rescuing Janet. Third was a revolution on another plane of existence? Again, I liked it, but it lacked that personal hook I wanted MODOK to be the main/obvious villain. I think the movie could have worked on a basis of "How does a family deal with growth/changes in its members?" Cassie's not the cute l'il 10 year who slides down fake tunnels in Scott's house. She's a college age young woman with a strong sense of justice and compassion. Let her get enthralled by Jentorra and the revolution with Scott being more cautious and skeptical because he knows and has paid the costs of idealism. Janet spent 30 years of her down there, a lot of it with Kang. Let her not have seen through him and feel guilty that she grabbed Hank's ticket out. Let Cross be the big goofy giant head tyrant with some vague hints that he's not the real boss. Let Kang's face/heel turn be a gut-punch like the ashes at the end of Ant-Man and the Wasp.
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Jul 2, 2023 22:10
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Killing/"killing" Kang twice in his first two appearances does not make him seem like an intimidating villain.
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Jul 2, 2023 22:39
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live with fruit posted:It sucks that the "get woke, get broke" chuds will jump all over it but for as bad as stuff like Quantumania is, Marvel's never put out anything even Morbius/Black Adam bad so there's room for Echo to be particularly awful. I dunno, Eternals was pretty goddamn bad.
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Jul 2, 2023 22:40
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Rappaport posted:How was it her dream job? She had to navigate around all sorts of conflict issues, like Blonsky being a guy who tried to kill Bruce, and she was aghast at having to portray as She-Hulk for the job. IIRC, she was unemployed at the end of the first episode, and got a job offer from a huge prominent firm, and gets the corner office, gets to hire her best friend as her assistant, etc. - the exception is that they want She-Hulk, not Jen. Then the cases seem like terrible lost causes until she successfully resolves them, realizing her potential (which, while occasionally supported by the She-Hulk's superpowers, largely comes from Jen herself).
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Jul 2, 2023 22:49
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Firebert posted:They should have made Jimmy Woo the new Coulson. Randall Park is so fun in the role and could have been the connective tissue phase 4 has lacked and used to introduce/re-introduce more obscure heroes. I would have loved that. Rewatching Phase 1, that's really all it took to keep everything on track while slowly piggy-backing several other characters into the story.
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Jul 2, 2023 23:30
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Red posted:IIRC, she was unemployed at the end of the first episode, and got a job offer from a huge prominent firm, and gets the corner office, gets to hire her best friend as her assistant, etc. - the exception is that they want She-Hulk, not Jen. Then the cases seem like terrible lost causes until she successfully resolves them, realizing her potential (which, while occasionally supported by the She-Hulk's superpowers, largely comes from Jen herself). Yeah, she gets fired at the start, and gets a job offer from a big firm for being She-Hulk. But that is my point. The show makes it prominently clear through Jen's dialogue that she wanted to work her way up a law firm's hierarchy, or the DA's hierarchy, but whichever, I'm not a lawyer, and she is very much horrified that she has to present as She-Hulk. Her boss isn't exactly portrayed as a bad guy at any part of the show, I'll give you that, but he always delivers something unfortunate that Jen has to deal with, starting with Emil and moving up to the creepy dude who dated an Asgardian by being stupid, and so forth. It's a good gig, I suppose, and it makes for a good framing for the show, but a part of the entire plot is that it isn't Jen's dream job, she clings to it because in the first episode they make it clear that she can't get anything else. There's a whole montage of failed job interviews and everything. As Jen and She-Hulk grow together, if you will, it becomes more her, but dream job just isn't the framing I'd use from the on-set.
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Jul 2, 2023 23:31
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Red posted:I dunno, Eternals was pretty goddamn bad. It wasn't even only a bad movie. It was a nothing movie. It had no soul. It had nothing say. Nothing to sink your teeth into. I actively disliked every character in it save Kit Harrington's and the documentary filmmaker. It was the cinematic equivalent of the flavor of water. There wasn't any there there.
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Jul 2, 2023 23:37
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LividLiquid posted:If they just never mentioned The Eternals again like they did with the Inhumans show I'd be perfectly fine with it. they didn't quite never mention the inhumans again, but if they bring back one of the eternals just to explode their head I'd be ok with that 
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Jul 2, 2023 23:39
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LividLiquid posted:It wasn't even just a bad Marvel movie. I thought the only interesting character was kingo (kumail nanjiani), he wasn't amazing, but he was something at least so of course halfway through the movie he says "gently caress this" and leaves never to return 
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Jul 2, 2023 23:41
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LividLiquid posted:It wasn't even just a bad Marvel movie. I think it's because the core concept of the characters is literally not to evolve or change. There's no growth in thousands of years, they're basically robots.
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Jul 2, 2023 23:42
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Can someone tell me what happened in episode 2? I’ve fallen asleep twice trying to watch it.
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Jul 2, 2023 23:43
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Red posted:I dunno, Eternals was pretty goddamn bad. Unlike all these D+ shows that should have been movies, Eternals is one movie that would really have benefited from being a show. Would be interesting to see how it would have gone had they actually had time to introduce a dozen new characters and villains so that we maybe give a poo poo about any of them before they start dying off. e: Pillowpants posted:Can someone tell me what happened in episode 2? I’ve fallen asleep twice trying to watch it. Fury is still sad about Hill. Gravik takes over the Secret New World Order council of Skrull imposters and is now basically Head Skrull. War Machine fires Fury, whatever that means.
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Jul 2, 2023 23:44
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Rappaport posted:Yeah, she gets fired at the start, and gets a job offer from a big firm for being She-Hulk. But that is my point. The show makes it prominently clear through Jen's dialogue that she wanted to work her way up a law firm's hierarchy, or the DA's hierarchy, but whichever, I'm not a lawyer, and she is very much horrified that she has to present as She-Hulk. Her boss isn't exactly portrayed as a bad guy at any part of the show, I'll give you that, but he always delivers something unfortunate that Jen has to deal with, starting with Emil and moving up to the creepy dude who dated an Asgardian by being stupid, and so forth. I guess my point is that it was a dream job, or in this case, the illusion of the wish fulfillment along with becoming She-Hulk, until she realizes being a visible superhero is really complicated.
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Jul 2, 2023 23:49
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Red posted:I dunno, Eternals was pretty goddamn bad. It really wasn't. The problem Eternals had was that it was simultaneously too short and too long. You had a 2.5+ hour movie about these new but really old super-duper powered beings (who couldn't be arsed to do a single loving thing when Thanos rolled up to wreck the planet/galaxy/universe). But then you also had a little over 2.5 hours to do 10-12 origin stories spanning thousands of years of human history and tell a story of poo poo that's relevant to "right now" in the MCU involving these people. The thing probably should have been a 12 hour series with each hour introducing a different Eternal and then hours 11-12 cover the main conflict among them.
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Jul 3, 2023 00:02
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TIP posted:I thought the only interesting character was kingo (kumail nanjiani), he wasn't amazing, but he was something at least
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Jul 3, 2023 00:05
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Red posted:I guess my point is that it was a dream job, or in this case, the illusion of the wish fulfillment along with becoming She-Hulk, until she realizes being a visible superhero is really complicated. Ohh, I see. I'm sorry, I misread you, my bad  Yeah, it is a dream job, just not what Jen originally wanted. The show's thematic just revolves around Jen having different dreams, or having to accept new ones, like being a super-hero (Bruce's big speech in the first episode) and all the silliness that comes with it.
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Jul 3, 2023 00:06
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Everyone posted:It really wasn't. The problem Eternals had was that it was simultaneously too short and too long. You had a 2.5+ hour movie about these new but really old super-duper powered beings (who couldn't be arsed to do a single loving thing when Thanos rolled up to wreck the planet/galaxy/universe). But then you also had a little over 2.5 hours to do 10-12 origin stories spanning thousands of years of human history and tell a story of poo poo that's relevant to "right now" in the MCU involving these people. The thing probably should have been a 12 hour series with each hour introducing a different Eternal and then hours 11-12 cover the main conflict among them.
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Jul 3, 2023 00:33
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live with fruit posted:Killing/"killing" Kang twice in his first two appearances does not make him seem like an intimidating villain. Kang isn't intimidating because of power or prowess or invulnerability. He's intimidating because no matter how many times you thwart him or even kill him, you haven't stopped him. Unlike Thanos, Kang truly is inevitable; the first version of him that we see, He Who Remains, is a version that has already won.
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Jul 3, 2023 01:05
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Jedit posted:Kang isn't intimidating because of power or prowess or invulnerability. He's intimidating because no matter how many times you thwart him or even kill him, you haven't stopped him. Unlike Thanos, Kang truly is inevitable; the first version of him that we see, He Who Remains, is a version that has already won. Also, Kang has a way higher body count. Thanos killed half of everyone in one universe. Kang killed everyone in infinity minus one universes.
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Jul 3, 2023 01:13
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live with fruit posted:At some point, they're going to have to acknowledge the giant stone alien sticking out of the ocean. Why are people so hung up on this? Who gives a poo poo? Its like the 10th weirdest thing on earth on that day probably.
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Jul 3, 2023 01:15
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For real. I don't really care if it ever gets addressed at all, frankly. It's not like it's right off the coast of Liberty Island or some poo poo. It's in the middle of Bumblefuck, Ocean.
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Jul 3, 2023 01:25
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Wong is supposed to be the new Coulson connectivity tissue as shown in shang chi, she hulk, spiderman no way home and Dr strange 2 but his role doesn't quite fit the more sci fi and shield stuff so he has been missing since E: I think it's also because the "connectivity" is spread out among several characters like Julia Louis dreyfuss 's character
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Jul 3, 2023 01:31
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Jedit posted:Kang isn't intimidating because of power or prowess or invulnerability. He's intimidating because no matter how many times you thwart him or even kill him, you haven't stopped him. Unlike Thanos, Kang truly is inevitable; the first version of him that we see, He Who Remains, is a version that has already won. But they haven't conveyed that. It's also a lot bigger than "Purple guy wants rocks and sends people after them" like how they introduced Thanos so it's harder to care.
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Jul 3, 2023 01:38
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