(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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Tarkus posted:I don't think they're going to irradiate anything. They're going to take all the fuel and blow the gently caress out of the plant so they have nothing of value when they take it back over. Why would they do that, Russia is an uranium exporter and makes those fuel rods. Removing them from their storage vessels would be the stupidest possible move they could try to do here.
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Jul 4, 2023 21:38
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Der Kyhe posted:Removing them from their storage vessels would be the stupidest possible move they could try to do here. You convinced me they will do it.
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Jul 4, 2023 21:40
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Der Kyhe posted:Why would they do that, Russia is an uranium exporter and makes those fuel rods. Removing them from their storage vessels would be the stupidest possible move they could try to do here. they stole live radiation sources from chernobyl
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Jul 4, 2023 21:44
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spankmeister posted:Pray tell, how do you take fuel from a nuclear power plant that has recently been operating? 
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Jul 4, 2023 21:45
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If something can be ruined, Russia will ruin it. That's just how it is. They don't need an additional reason.
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Jul 4, 2023 21:45
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Der Kyhe posted:Why would they do that, Russia is an uranium exporter and makes those fuel rods. Removing them from their storage vessels would be the stupidest possible move they could try to do here. After a year and a half of Russia doing the most dumbshit things possible, you still ask "why would they do that"?? If Russia can't have it, nobody can. That's all there is to it. Brutality and entitlement
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Jul 4, 2023 21:52
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HonorableTB posted:
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Jul 4, 2023 21:53
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HonorableTB posted:After a year and a half of Russia doing the most dumbshit things possible, you still ask "why would they do that"?? Yes, but right now the wind is blowing to south towards their own positions and its expected to turn eastwards in few days so it would be going towards Russia for several days. ...They are going to do it, aren't they?
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Jul 4, 2023 21:54
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Der Kyhe posted:Yes, but right now the wind is blowing to south towards their own positions and its expected to turn eastwards in few days so it would be going towards Russia for several days.
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Jul 4, 2023 22:02
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Stupid question but at what point do China and India who have been largely using the situation for their benefit look at irradiating a large part of the world and scream bloody loving murder? Wouldn't this actively harm them?
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Jul 4, 2023 22:03
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Sashimi posted:It's actually a clever political move, because radioactive material blowing west into NATO countries could be a major escalation with potential military consequences. Ah yes, this will only make Putin's regime stronger.
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Jul 4, 2023 22:05
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Der Kyhe posted:Yes, but right now the wind is blowing to south towards their own positions and its expected to turn eastwards in few days so it would be going towards Russia for several days. The mistake you are making here is that you seem to be under the impression that Putin cares about Russians any more than he cares about ukrainians. He blew up an apartment building in Moscow to justify the second invasion into Chechnya. In the chechen hostage crisis where chechens took over a school and held them hostage putin cared so much about the lives of Russians that 146 schoolchildren were killed in the breaching operation.
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Jul 4, 2023 22:06
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Ches Neckbeard posted:Stupid question but at what point do China and India who have been largely using the situation for their benefit look at irradiating a large part of the world and scream bloody loving murder? Wouldn't this actively harm them? They don't care as long as they get fuel and the world remains largely stable.
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Jul 4, 2023 22:08
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spankmeister posted:Pray tell, how do you take fuel from a nuclear power plant that has recently been operating? Oh I know this one from officer training! You say "Sergeant, remove the fuel" 
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Jul 4, 2023 22:08
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Tarkus posted:They don't care as long as they get fuel and the world remains largely stable. What part of detonating a large nuclear facility leaves the situation stable?
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Jul 4, 2023 22:09
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Once the radiation turns Russian soldiers into Incredible Hulks youll see Putins genius
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Jul 4, 2023 22:10
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Jul 4, 2023 22:11
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Ches Neckbeard posted:What part of detonating a large nuclear facility leaves the situation stable? it's just a bit of radiation, no biggie as they say. It probably won't waft into India too much and certainly won't reach China. As long as it doesn't directly affect them they won't care.
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Jul 4, 2023 22:12
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July 5th is the target date for the ukrianian employees to evacuate. Those are Ukrainians who signed contracts with Russia's nuclear monopoly.
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Jul 4, 2023 22:12
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Tarkus posted:it's just a bit of radiation, no biggie as they say. It probably won't waft into India too much and certainly won't reach China. As long as it doesn't directly affect them they won't care. I can't tell if you're joking or not
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Jul 4, 2023 22:14
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The radiation is going to poison the new wagner base. So yes Putin blew up the ZNPP To assassinate a former hotdog vendor.
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Jul 4, 2023 22:15
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HonorableTB posted:I can't tell if you're joking or not I'm kinda joking. They'll make noises and stuff but they won't do anything of any value.
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Jul 4, 2023 22:16
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Tarkus posted:I'm kinda joking. They'll make noises and stuff but they won't do anything of any value. China and India aren't going to just shrug if NATO gets involved due to a nuclear provocation. That's something with legitimate global repercussions.
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Jul 4, 2023 22:20
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Yeah China and India will furiously speak out against this horrific violation of the international order, namely of Moscow's Sovereignty which gives it (and China, and India) the absolute right to brutalise their own people and occasionally their weaker neighbors without interference.
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Jul 4, 2023 22:23
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bad boys for life posted:Once the radiation turns Russian soldiers into Incredible Hulks youll see Putins genius 
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Jul 4, 2023 22:25
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HonorableTB posted:China and India aren't going to just shrug if NATO gets involved due to a nuclear provocation. That's something with legitimate global repercussions. I dunno. While many of the actions of *some* governments have been pretty proactive in this conflict, I've been quite surprised at how feckless most of the world has been in the face of blatant Russian aggression and active de-stabilization. It wouldn't shock me if India and China publicly accept the Russian narrative that the Ukronazis bombed the plant themselves.
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Jul 4, 2023 22:26
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Strategic Tea posted:Yeah China and India will furiously speak out against this horrific violation of the international order, namely of Moscow's Sovereignty which gives it (and China, and India) the absolute right to brutalise their own people and occasionally their weaker neighbors without interference. Tarkus posted:I dunno. While many of the actions of *some* governments have been pretty proactive in this conflict, I've been quite surprised at how feckless most of the world has been in the face of blatant Russian aggression and active de-stabilization. It wouldn't shock me if India and China publicly accept the Russian narrative that the Ukronazis bombed the plant themselves. yeah makes total sense that the greatest geopolitical rival the United States has would just sit quietly in approval at the destruction of a nuclear power plant that drags NATO into kinetic involvement to completely obliterate the Russian military with conventional arms https://www.reuters.com/world/russian-nuclear-strike-would-almost-certainly-draw-physical-response-nato-2022-10-12/ An attack involving radiological material, whether it be a tac-nuke, a strategic warhead, a nuclear torpedo, nuke-carrying Kinzhal, or a deliberate destruction and sabotage of radiation containment facilities at ZNPP will all carry the same conventional kinetic response. US and NATO doctrine w/r/t radiological attacks is uniform. This would be of extreme interest and importance to China and India, both of which are regional nuclear armed powers. China is the closest thing to an opposing superpower the US has, if you think they would just ignore that then I don't know what to tell you, because they'd be watching to see NATO response with their eyes towards Taiwan. HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Jul 4, 2023 |
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Jul 4, 2023 22:40
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Tarkus posted:I don't think they're going to irradiate anything. They're going to
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Jul 4, 2023 22:44
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HonorableTB posted:yeah makes total sense that the greatest geopolitical rival the United States has would just sit quietly in approval at the destruction of a nuclear power plant that drags NATO into kinetic involvement to completely obliterate the Russian military with conventional arms The actual reactors are surrounded by a couple of feet of reinforced concrete. It will take substantial effort and many tons of explosives to rupture them. The odds of a radiation leak are quite small. Hence, the odds of NATO involvement are close to zero. They can certainly destroy the rest of the plant, though, and probably will. It will just be another lovely thing Russia has done and won't result in any escalation.
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Jul 4, 2023 22:45
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HonorableTB posted:yeah makes total sense that the greatest geopolitical rival the United States has would just sit quietly in approval at the destruction of a nuclear power plant that drags NATO into kinetic involvement to completely obliterate the Russian military with conventional arms Like I said, I dunno. That's just the way I feel about it. Nothing surprises me anymore. Internally it could panic India and China but I would be surprised to see much more than a wet fart from their side. That's all. I'm not dictating the future.
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Jul 4, 2023 22:45
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Deteriorata posted:The actual reactors are surrounded by a couple of feet of reinforced concrete. It will take substantial effort and many tons of explosives to rupture them. The odds of a radiation leak are quite small. Hence, the odds of NATO involvement are close to zero. You don't have to destroy the reactors to cause a meltdown which does it for you: 
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Jul 4, 2023 22:47
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Ches Neckbeard posted:Stupid question but at what point do China and India who have been largely using the situation for their benefit look at irradiating a large part of the world and scream bloody loving murder? Wouldn't this actively harm them? Calm down Willo, there are no scenarios in which the ZPP irradiates a large part of the world.
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Jul 4, 2023 23:00
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Tarkus posted:Like I said, I dunno. That's just the way I feel about it. Nothing surprises me anymore. Internally it could panic India and China but I would be surprised to see much more than a wet fart from their side. That's all. I'm not dictating the future. Unless there's a huge mushroom cloud they can see from space, I'm very certain China & India would be "very concerned about the situation" and will "urge a peaceful resolution of the conflict" and then do absolutely nothing.
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Jul 4, 2023 23:04
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HonorableTB posted:yeah makes total sense that the greatest geopolitical rival the United States has would just sit quietly in approval at the destruction of a nuclear power plant that drags NATO into kinetic involvement to completely obliterate the Russian military with conventional arms I doubt that anything the Russians would do at ZNPP would be considered the same as launching a nuke. There's no "doctrine" about what to do about a radiological attack on a third-party that spills over into a NATO country.
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Jul 4, 2023 23:10
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EasilyConfused posted:I doubt that anything the Russians would do at ZNPP would be considered the same as launching a nuke. There's no "doctrine" about what to do about a radiological attack on a third-party that spills over into a NATO country. NATO disagrees. quote:4. NATO’s CBRN Defence Policy sets the overall level of ambition for NATO’s CBRN defence, including our complementary commitments to providing necessary military capabilities and enabling national resilience, thereby enhancing NATO’s resilience against CBRN threats. This policy is guided by our shared and lasting commitment to prevent the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, protect the Alliance against CBRN incidents or attack, and support recovery from the consequences of any such use. For the purposes of this policy, “weapon of mass destruction” refers to any weapon or weapons system employing CBRN materials that is able to cause widespread devastation and loss of life. “CBRN materials” refers to any chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear substance that may pose a hazard to NATO populations, territories and forces, regardless of origin or whether the material was originally conceived as a weapon. CBRN in this means Chemical, Biological, Radiological, and Nuclear threats. quote:Fully-resourced CBRN defence capabilities contribute to Allied security across the full spectrum from peacetime to crisis to conflict. NATO’s CBRN defence capabilities contribute to prevent the conceptualization, development, possession, proliferation and use of WMD and related expertise, materials, technologies and means of delivery. NATO forces will be ready to deny access to CBRN materials and their means of delivery, disable and dispose of WMD and CBRN materials in operational contexts, respond against the source of any WMD attack, mitigate the effects of CBRN use, and eliminate an aggressor’s WMD capabilities. The ability to conduct countering WMD and interdiction operations, including by sea, plays a central role in preventing the proliferation of WMD and CBRN materials, their means of delivery, and related materials and technologies. Combine those with the above statement that clarifies CBRN does not have to actually be a nuclear weapon to be considered a radiological WMD under NATO policy, which would demand a response. HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Jul 4, 2023 |
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Jul 4, 2023 23:13
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HonorableTB posted:NATO disagrees. Maybe you should let NATO speak for itself on the issue and back off on the nuclear fear-mongering.
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Jul 4, 2023 23:15
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Jul 4, 2023 23:15
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HonorableTB posted:NATO disagrees. Has NATO or any of main members said anything yet on the current situation with the plant?
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Jul 4, 2023 23:16
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HonorableTB posted:NATO disagrees. I don't know what document that comes from. Is there a part where it says what the response would be? Edit: Apparently not, judging from your edit. EasilyConfused fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Jul 4, 2023 |
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Jul 4, 2023 23:16
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EasilyConfused posted:I don't know what document that comes from. Is there a part where it says what the response would be? The response would be an invocation of Article 4 to discuss whether Article 5 should be invoked and if so, what the appropriate response would be. It does not have to automatically mean nuclear war; a proportional response could be something as easy as supplying the affected areas with decontamination and anti-radiological equipment and meds. Deteriorata posted:Maybe you should let NATO speak for itself on the issue and back off on the nuclear fear-mongering. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_197768.htm I am letting NATO speak for itself lol. This is literally from their CBRN Defence Policy document
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Jul 4, 2023 23:21
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