(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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Dwesa posted:Gerkin on Prigozhin's coup attempt I hope it's true and the end of the war. Who cares what gangster is actually in power if they withdraw from all of Ukraine.
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Jul 12, 2023 11:47
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| # ? May 30, 2024 07:29 |
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Funny how the sustained and intentional 4d chess campaign of sabotage from within will look identical to the Russian army collapsing due to incompetance and grift at all levels.
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Jul 12, 2023 11:55
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Had a very long and boozy video chat with a bunch of Russian friends of mine last night. A certain event that's happened has disrupted having a group meet up either in person (usually Prague, great city) or a group video call for the last year. Really nice to get everyone together but really sad how my friends appear a bit forlorn. All of them had a story of knowing friend(s) who have been arrested on spurious charges related to Ukraine. How the propaganda is an every day thing you can't turn off or just people they were friends with that have been enlisted and never heard from again. Overall a somewhat sad reunion. I did read some quotes from another forum that did lighten the mood. It did get a lot of laughter at how dumb they are. tl;dr 
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Jul 12, 2023 12:12
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quote:▪️ Their Brigade commander has been replaced due to emotional issues. soyboy woke gender army
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Jul 12, 2023 12:20
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redshirt posted:I hope it's true and the end of the war. Who cares what gangster is actually in power if they withdraw from all of Ukraine. yeah
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Jul 12, 2023 12:24
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Surovikin is on "vacation" Rust Martialis posted:No offense but Noelreports is really not a reliable source imho. Reuters: quote:July 12 (Reuters) - General Sergei Surovikin, a deputy commander of Russia's military operations in Ukraine, is "currently resting", a lawmaker from the ruling party said on Wednesday. OzyMandrill posted:Funny how the sustained and intentional 4d chess campaign of sabotage from within will look identical to the Russian army collapsing due to incompetance and grift at all levels. Yes, I suppose it's just copium and trying to find someone to blame for their military's many failures. Dwesa fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Jul 12, 2023 |
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Jul 12, 2023 12:42
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No offense but Noelreports is really not a reliable source imho.
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Jul 12, 2023 12:45
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NihilCredo posted:I think you're mixing up Hostomel airport (VDV gets slaughtered during the initial attack due to lack of air support) with Chornobayvka / Kherson airport (Ukraine keeps bombing Russian troops, Russian keeps putting more troops to get bombed, repeat x12), which was also the source of a lot of Ukrainian memes and even a few songs. You're right, Kherson was the forever repeating airborne attack location. But VDV at Hostomel had tons of air support in the form of a bunch of attack helicopters and fixed wing CAS. The air support just failed to contribute much after the initial attack hit known static militia locations, got some shot down, and failed to keep air defenses suppressed leading to progressively less effect. They got wiped out because the VDV had no heavy support on the ground when Ukraine rolled in a rapid reaction force.
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Jul 12, 2023 12:57
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To be quite honest I don't care what excuses Russia puts up if, at the end of the day, they all decided to pack up and leave Ukraine, including Crimea. Peace should be the ultimate goal and, as the aggressors, Russia has the power to end the war at any time.
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Jul 12, 2023 13:30
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I heard he caught a flight right out of his apartment
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Jul 12, 2023 14:57
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Runa posted:To be quite honest I don't care what excuses Russia puts up if, at the end of the day, they all decided to pack up and leave Ukraine, including Crimea. Let Russia declare victory and roll back to their own borders claiming they've secured the country from NAZIS. As long as they actually get the gently caress out.
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Jul 12, 2023 15:04
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redshirt posted:Let Russia declare victory and roll back to their own borders claiming they've secured the country from NAZIS. I don't see much of a chance of Russia unilaterally going back to the pre-2014 borders since they can probably keep a low-intensity conflict chugging away there in perpetuity.
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Jul 12, 2023 15:08
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Ukraine has successfully penetrated into Kurdumivka. Tightening the encirclement around bakhmut. Soon Ukraine will have fire control over the river behind bakhmut aswell as the roads leaving. The VDV is trapped and desperately low on food morale and ammo with no reserves at all. Great for Ukraine, very desperate for Russia. Again, 100% of the troops just maintain their positions 100% of the time. It's bad.
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Jul 12, 2023 15:09
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There is a knock at Surovikin's door: "I am vacation man, here to take you on free vacation!" Is no vacation man, is For Surovikin, suffering is over. Such is life.
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Jul 12, 2023 15:13
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Warbadger posted:You're right, Kherson was the forever repeating airborne attack location. Nothing demonstrates how utterly sure the Russians were of the Ukrainians folding immediately and putting up little to no resistance like the airborne assault on Hostomel. The assault itself was actually pretty competent - They did take the airport, they had tons of air support as you said. But it doesn't matter how good your airborne guys are, they are light infantry. Once they drop, resupplying them is basically impossible. They gotta make due with the gear on their back. It doesn't matter how good they are, after a day or so of heavy fighting they are out of ammo. Which is exactly what happened, they ran out of supplies and got rolled by a bunch of territorial defense units. So the Russian plan was obviously that they would be relieved by the ground forces approaching Kyiv from the north. But in order to do that, the ground forces would have to reach Hostomel, which is a northern suburb of Kyiv, at most a day or two after the assault. The only way the VDV guys who dropped at Hostomel would make it out of there was if Russia had taken Kyiv in a matter of days. And the only way that was going to happen was if the Ukrainians would fold immediately. All the Russian planning for this rested on the assumption that the Ukrainian military would fold in a matter of days. There was no plan B. This is why troops weren't told they were invading until after they crossed the border, this is why the VDV did their suicide drop at Hostomel. Nobody in the Russian chain of command took this thing seriously until it was abundantly clear that the Ukrainians weren't folding. Basically all of the giant Russian fuckups in the first few days can be laid squarely on that assumption. Once it was clear the Ukrainians were holding, the Russian army basically had to improvise on the fly, because they made no actual plans for this invasion, so you got poo poo like the Kyiv Highway of Death.
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Jul 12, 2023 15:18
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Geisladisk posted:Nothing demonstrates how utterly sure the Russians were of the Ukrainians folding immediately and putting up little to no resistance like the airborne assault on Hostomel. Sorry, the only way that the drop at Hostomel Airport would have succeeded is if the Russian forces didn't out of fuel on the way in to the greater Kyiv area. If that column hadn't been delayed and stopped, completely different war.
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Jul 12, 2023 15:23
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CoffeeQaddaffi posted:Sorry, the only way that the drop at Hostomel Airport would have succeeded is if the Russian forces didn't out of fuel on the way in to the greater Kyiv area. If that column hadn't been delayed and stopped, completely different war. That column ran out of fuel because it faced stiff resistance and constant harassment from Ukrainian forces, which slowed it down and increased fuel consumption. If there had been no resistance and the column could have just had a nice drive on a sunny day straight to Kyiv, then yeah, some vehicles would have ran out of fuel, but the column would have got there. For all their incompetence the Russian army isn't incapable of driving a couple of hundred kilometers when it isn't being shot by Yuri and his mates from the TDF from every treeline and getting shelled by two Ukrainian artillery battalions the whole way. Either way, regardless of why it stopped, the Russians clearly planned for the VDV at Hostomel to be relieved in a matter of hours.
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Jul 12, 2023 15:26
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Geisladisk posted:That column ran out of fuel because it faced stiff resistance and constant harassment from Ukrainian forces, That's really surprising. I would've expected the reason to be that the fuel had been stolen.
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Jul 12, 2023 15:28
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3D Megadoodoo posted:That's really surprising. I would've expected the reason to be that the fuel had been stolen. There was definitely some of that - Remember that video of a Russian APC stopped by the side of the road barely 50 kilometers from the Belarusian border on day 1, and a Ukrainian drives up and offers them a ride back to the border and everyone has a nice laugh? That APC has a road range of like 350 kilometers on a full tank of gas.
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Jul 12, 2023 15:30
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CoffeeQaddaffi posted:Sorry, the only way that the drop at Hostomel Airport would have succeeded is if the Russian forces didn't out of fuel on the way in to the greater Kyiv area. If that column hadn't been delayed and stopped, completely different war. If I remember correctly, at least part of the reason for this is that Ukrainians were able to talk on Russian radios and tell them that fuel was on its way. 
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Jul 12, 2023 15:30
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 Vacation...
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Jul 12, 2023 15:30
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:
There's only one big pussy in Russia.
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Jul 12, 2023 15:44
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https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-put-destroyed-nato-equipment-show-near-western-embassies-2023-07-12/quote:July 12 (Reuters) - Russia plans to display NATO equipment it has destroyed in Ukraine outside the embassies of Western countries that supplied it, parliamentary speaker Vyacheslav Volodin said on Wednesday. that will show those HATO westerners & they will immediately withdraw their support
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Jul 12, 2023 15:55
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Tiny Timbs posted:I don't see much of a chance of Russia unilaterally going back to the pre-2014 borders since they can probably keep a low-intensity conflict chugging away there in perpetuity. Hard to do a low intensity conflict if the other guy is fully capable of engaging your entire military strength and grinding it to dust in a high intensity conventional conflict. A frozen conflict requires both sides to cooperate. The stronger side doesn't escalate things because they currently have what they want. The weaker side doesn't escalate because they're pretty sure they can't deal with an escalation by the stronger side. The moment 80% of the Russian army crossed the border their ability to force Ukrainian cooperation via threat of escalation vanished. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Jul 12, 2023 |
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Jul 12, 2023 15:56
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Warbadger posted:Hard to do a low intensity conflict if the other guy is fully capable of engaging your entire military and grinding it to dust in a peer conventional conflict. But until 2022 the conflict in LDR and DPR wasn't a matter of engaging a military, it was a conflict with insurgent groups, foreign-backed local governments, and manipulated demographics.
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Jul 12, 2023 16:00
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Tiny Timbs posted:But until 2022 the conflict in LDR and DPR wasn't a matter of engaging a military, it was a conflict with insurgent groups, foreign-backed local governments, and manipulated demographics. The regular Russian military fought very openly and directly inside Ukraine in 2014. The "local" governments erected by Russia were openly run by Russia. Everyone was pretty well aware Russia invaded.
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Jul 12, 2023 16:11
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:
Maradona really let himself go
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Jul 12, 2023 16:18
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Warbadger posted:The regular Russian military fought very openly and directly inside Ukraine in 2014. The "local" governments erected by Russia were openly run by Russia. Everyone was pretty well aware Russia invaded. Ok, but that's not addressing my point that you can't shoot your way past local governments supported by sympathetic populations.
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Jul 12, 2023 16:29
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if the actual Russian military totally withdrew today, what would remaining resistance look like? honest question
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Jul 12, 2023 16:39
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Zippy the Bummer posted:if the actual Russian military totally withdrew today, what would remaining resistance look like? honest question Dragons teeth
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Jul 12, 2023 16:42
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Tai posted:Dragons teeth And a bajillion mines.
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Jul 12, 2023 16:42
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Zippy the Bummer posted:if the actual Russian military totally withdrew today, what would remaining resistance look like? honest question as I understand it the LPR/DPR have been more or less bled white, and didn't have good equipment to start with, so shambolic and doomed for the organized portion. Not really sure about civilians though I do have a vague memory of polling in those regions finding that the majority basically didn't care who was in charge and would rather prosecute their lives, hopefully I'm not inventing that.
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Jul 12, 2023 16:44
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TulliusCicero posted:The VEE DEE VEE might be the most overhyped "Special" Forces in history at this point, holy loving poo poo As I gather, even at their best the VDV was just a particularly well-trained and equipped airborne force, right? Great for putting somewhere the enemy wasn't prepared to defend during the initial assault and hold just long enough to get heavier forces in place. Even if you had the Soviet VDV that led the offensive against the Nazis in 1943, putting them in a stand-up slog like Bakhmut would be totally the wrong tool for the job. It's the usual special forces myth where people get thinking they're just a better version of the army rather than a specialized tool. Harmless enough for regular people to mythologize, but when true believers get in strategic roles, hooboy.
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Jul 12, 2023 16:48
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Tiny Timbs posted:Ok, but that's not addressing my point that you can't shoot your way past local governments supported by sympathetic populations. They weren't local governments and they weren't supported by sympathetic populations.
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Jul 12, 2023 16:54
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They are and they are, because Russia stood them up and staffed them locally and moved people into the region to be sympathetic to them
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Jul 12, 2023 16:55
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Tiny Timbs posted:Ok, but that's not addressing my point that you can't shoot your way past local governments supported by sympathetic populations. You certainly can do that.
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Jul 12, 2023 16:58
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frumpykvetchbot posted:https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-put-destroyed-nato-equipment-show-near-western-embassies-2023-07-12/ countdown to them dumping a bunch of old t-34s and tractors outside some embassies by accident
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Jul 12, 2023 17:02
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Tiny Timbs posted:They are and they are, because Russia stood them up and staffed them locally and moved people into the region to be sympathetic to them A government Russia "stands up" and runs in part of another country isn't a "local" government. That they moved people and troops in to support these governments does not mean they had local support under any reasonable definition. It's worth noting that the 2014 Ukrainian military very nearly re-established control of DPR/LPR, until a substantial number of regular Russian troops crossed the border. poo poo did not go well for the people larping separatists, largely because the locals didn't support them. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Jul 12, 2023 |
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Jul 12, 2023 17:03
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Geisladisk posted:Nothing demonstrates how utterly sure the Russians were of the Ukrainians folding immediately and putting up little to no resistance like the airborne assault on Hostomel. A lot of the Russian plan ended up like Operation Market Garden but with even worse planning and leadership. frumpykvetchbot posted:https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-put-destroyed-nato-equipment-show-near-western-embassies-2023-07-12/ I mean, we already do this. So by all means.
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Jul 12, 2023 17:04
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| # ? May 30, 2024 07:29 |
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e;dp
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Jul 12, 2023 17:05
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