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DaveKap posted:I would say if anything broke the rules here, it's that apparently across the franchise Vulcans have been portrayed as vegetarians (except that one group of them who aren't.) Memory Alpha says T'Pol and Spock are both vegetarians but I guess since he became human, he wasn't vegetarian anymore! That does explain the "Why do I feel nauseous?" If you've never eaten meat your entire life then your stomach is going to have a bad time when you finally do.
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Jul 14, 2023 11:32
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DaveKap posted:I would say if anything broke the rules here, it's that apparently across the franchise Vulcans have been portrayed as vegetarians (except that one group of them who aren't.) Memory Alpha says T'Pol and Spock are both vegetarians but I guess since he became human, he wasn't vegetarian anymore! That part did bother me. The episode just kinda swerved around that the Vulcan way of life (vegetarianism included) is a way of mental discipline more than biology, which, okay, fine. But it was an odd choice to then mention that at the end, as if it weren't treated entirely as a matter of genes the whole episode...
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Jul 14, 2023 11:36
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Star Trek's always treated it as being that their mental discipline and structure of their society is a way to deal with minds and biology and thought patterns that are very different to human, and they've created this overlay in order to bring it under control. The counterpoint being that when you throw that into a human brain and biology, it all stops working because it's designed to manage stuff that isn't there any more and they have no idea how to handle human-style thought patterns instead.
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Jul 14, 2023 11:52
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DaveKap posted:I talked to a Trek nerd who said this episode means the show is either an AU or will have some kind of a mind wipe in the future because in Amok Time, Chapel doesn't recognize T'Pring (saying as much on-camera) and didn't know Spock was engaged. I'm not a ToS-head so I thought I'd throw that out there and see what you folks think. Didn't Chapel and T'Pring interact already last season quite extensively? I'd be happy with SNW being an AU in the end, so that the series can carry on forever into Kirk's leadership and beyond, but realistically it's just a minor continuity change the writers will entirely ignore because it serves the story better.
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Jul 14, 2023 12:10
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Duckula posted:did they just drop the sybok stuff that they teased last year From what I've read, they haven't forgotten. Now whether it's another tease or full on episode remains to be seen.
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Jul 14, 2023 13:10
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Bitch MIL trope is the only thing I didn't like about the episode. Downtrodden Vulcan dad was delightful when he was keen and then awful again when BMIL slapped him down. It wouldn't have been the same ep but Vulcan dad being more robust in his dealings with his wife (not Klingon robust ) "it's not logical to disparage genuine effort" kind of thing. Amanda was right in her gentle critique of TPring. She can't go against her parents whereas Spock can and did.
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Jul 14, 2023 13:27
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MikeJF posted:Star Trek's always treated it as being that their mental discipline and structure of their society is a way to deal with minds and biology and thought patterns that are very different to human, and they've created this overlay in order to bring it under control. The counterpoint being that when you throw that into a human brain and biology, it all stops working because it's designed to manage stuff that isn't there any more and they have no idea how to handle human-style thought patterns instead. This is how I rationalise it too. It's like Spock knows how to flex his jibjab muscle which all Vulcans have but he now has a triceps instead and whoops that works differently. I really liked that right after Chapel gives him the shot at the end, Peck immediately reorients his performance back to normal Spock but without it being called out explicitly
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Jul 14, 2023 13:31
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Goldmine
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Jul 14, 2023 13:35
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I am really amused that Vulcans observe Festivus as part of their engagement traditions. Commence the airing of grievances!
Screaming_Gremlin fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Jul 14, 2023 |
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Jul 14, 2023 13:46
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Re: emotions I always got the impression not only are Vulcan emotions very strong, so are Vulcans. A raging Vulcan would be smashing walls down. In my opinion the reason why humans in ST are doing so well is because we deal with all our emotions. Vulcans suppress them as much as possible, Klingons exalt aggressive emotions only. Orion's were what, sex mad? And Romulans suspicious beyond all reason Later the races are portrayed better and have more layers added but that's it for the big 4
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Jul 14, 2023 13:52
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some miscellaneous thoughts
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Jul 14, 2023 14:20
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PriorMarcus posted:it's just a minor continuity change the writers will entirely ignore because it serves the story better. This, there are already many examples of all the other series ignoring or explicitly retconning stuff from TOS. Even Trials and Tribble-ations, which uses footage from TOS (which made it as close as possible continuity wise as one can be), swaps out randos for DS9 characters.
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Jul 14, 2023 14:38
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TOS is Schrödinger’s canon
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Jul 14, 2023 14:42
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The Chairman posted:some miscellaneous thoughts "You know you used to be a lot more fun when you were corporeal. Tell Purple I still want my hoodie back, he's got no body to keep warm."
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Jul 14, 2023 14:42
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Carol Kane isn't main cast, unfortunately, so we're probably unlikely to just have her serve as a one-scene comedy beat in an episode where she otherwise isn't involved.
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Jul 14, 2023 14:47
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PriorMarcus posted:I'd be happy with SNW being an AU in the end, so that the series can carry on forever into Kirk's leadership and beyond, but realistically it's just a minor continuity change the writers will entirely ignore because it serves the story better. Re: their overall attitude to it quote:The timeframe of this series means that, largely, they’re bound by canon. “Is it complicated? It is. I think it’s fun, if you like it, right? I think if you don’t like it, it’s probably horrific. Part of what’s interesting is we’re interpolating history. There’s pieces that are dark that we’re filling in.”
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Jul 14, 2023 14:52
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Good attitude to have I think, sticking to the broad strokes of canon definitely gives the characters some pathos knowing what will happen to them and where they'll end up, but also I don't really care if they play a bit loose in the space inbetween
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Jul 14, 2023 14:58
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Jul 14, 2023 15:15
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For those of you who are a certain age and didn't notice, T'Pring's dad was played by the voice of Bob from ReBoot. (Re: things not quite matching canon, we had a pretty explicit explanation that the Time Wars managed to mess up a bunch of minor things while still keeping the main events (if not when they had originally happened))
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Jul 14, 2023 15:22
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Dude you can't just post Nurse Chapel's tumblr like that
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Jul 14, 2023 15:27
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That would also be a good "We would like to have your baby." image. ookiimarukochan posted:For those of you who are a certain age and didn't notice, T'Pring's dad was played by the voice of Bob from ReBoot. Oh my god, that's so cool. I'll have to rewatch the episode now and see if I can pick up on it.
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Jul 14, 2023 15:36
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Wee Bairns posted:"Don't test me, Kirk, I will break you!" i laughed so hard at this
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Jul 14, 2023 15:45
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Beeftweeter posted:i laughed so hard at this For me it was the bacon bit.
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Jul 14, 2023 15:55
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Penitent posted:This got me thinking... have we seen the Vulcan salute lately? Has Spock used it in SNW? i'm not sure he's used it before but we will see him use it in the lower decks crossover because boimler screws it up (of course) (preview spoiler)
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Jul 14, 2023 15:58
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nine-gear crow posted:For me it was the bacon bit. that was good too and i admit i was also thinking "huh, they're vegetarians and their culture is based on some parts of jewish culture" but a. it doesn't matter (as i've said while defending the ferengi in DS9, i was raised jewish), i eat bacon too; and b. it just highlights that human spock is not a vulcan it was also very funny. i mean, yeah, it was briefly interesting to think about, but ultimately who cares
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Jul 14, 2023 16:01
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T’Prom.
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Jul 14, 2023 16:36
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Surprised they didn't mention about losing his vulcan strength.
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Jul 14, 2023 16:44
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I appreciated the follow-up. Of course he was with La'an. Presumably Sam called Security and she decided on the big sister talking to instead of throwing him in the brig.
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Jul 14, 2023 16:48
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Just distractingly attractive people. (I like to think that part of the Vulcan cultural realignment depicted on ENT is part of why Vulcans start doing interesting things with their hair by TOS)
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Jul 14, 2023 17:05
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They are in the risky position where T'pring is almost too likeable. Like... she's 100% in the right at the end of this episode
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Jul 14, 2023 17:08
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happyhippy posted:Surprised they didn't mention about losing his vulcan strength. i'm not sure he did. with the disclaimer that this might have been exaggerated for comedic purposes, when spock is laughing in the hallway with chapel he hits her (in a friendly way, obviously), and it seemed like she reacted like it was too hard. i'm not sure if it was intentional, but i took it as spock not realizing that he still has vulcan strength in a human body (and yeah, this is kind of ridiculous to say because ethan peck is ethan peck, but his musculature didn't change).
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Jul 14, 2023 17:10
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Gaz-L posted:They are in the risky position where T'pring is almost too likeable. Like... she's 100% in the right at the end of this episode Why is that risky?
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Jul 14, 2023 17:13
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Pinterest Mom posted:Why is that risky? Might have been the wrong word to use, it's more that at some point they have to get to a point where 'Spock's death' is a logical thing for her to decide to plan on and it's gonna be pretty hard to have that feel like it's organic if they keep making her come off better than him.
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Jul 14, 2023 17:15
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Gaz-L posted:They are in the risky position where T'pring is almost too likeable. Like... she's 100% in the right at the end of this episode I would agree, except that we've got to build up to Spock purging his emotions by TOS. He's got to have a pretty darn good reason. If it's his relationship with T'pring, imagine how much more weight Amok Time would have.
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Jul 14, 2023 17:19
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My betrothed and I saw you across the room…
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Jul 14, 2023 17:21
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Gaz-L posted:They are in the risky position where T'pring is almost too likeable. Like... she's 100% in the right at the end of this episode T'Pring is too good for Spock 
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Jul 14, 2023 17:21
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I also remember T'Pol making a big deal in Enterprise about how Vulcans don't touch their food with their hands.
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Jul 14, 2023 17:29
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feedmyleg posted:I would agree, except that we've got to build up to Spock purging his emotions by TOS. He's got to have a pretty darn good reason. If it's his relationship with T'pring, imagine how much more weight Amok Time would have. I think there's an interesting story there that's like.... "liberal Vulcan finds out that her half-human boyfriend has been having an emotional affair all along, and turns reactionary", yeah.
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Jul 14, 2023 17:30
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I like it when they get into the different ways to be a Vulcan. The way we are *told* Vulcans are sounds miserable but the way we see Vulcans are shows that they aren't nearly as emotionless and logical as they pretend to be. I mean even "I am pleased to see you" is an emotion, so is finding things interesting, or amusing or whatever. This is also something they get into in Enterprise and it's some of the better stuff from that series. I've seen some people online saying that the meeting-the-in-laws stuff is a Bollywood homage, a lot of the Vulcan rituals are similar to Hindu wedding rituals and I guess that's a pretty common trope in Indian cinema. Both Gia Sanhdu and Ellora Patnaik are Canadians of Indian decent as well. It would be a hell of a coincidence. I'd be interested if anyone here has a perspective on that TOS Spock thoughts: With how often he had to wear a beanie to hide being a Vulcan... Nimoy never got to cut loose like this, probably the closest is Return to Tomorrow where Spock, Kirk, and Pulaski agree to get taken over by those aliens who want to build mechanical bodies, but the one that takes over Spock doesn't want to give up the body. Nimoy plays it really well, kind of like a mischievous trickster god. It's a very good performance. Gangringo posted:I also remember T'Pol making a big deal in Enterprise about how Vulcans don't touch their food with their hands. Did Enterprise establish that vulcans think we smell bad or did that come earlier zoux fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Jul 14, 2023 |
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Jul 14, 2023 17:33
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I think that it was mentioned. I'm not 100% sure, it's been a while since I've seen it. I just remember the no touching food thing because Archer and Trip were being complete assholes about it and shoving bread sticks at her and refusing to make any accomodations. Gangringo fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Jul 14, 2023 |
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Jul 14, 2023 17:39
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