[Ukraine] Missing in Action: Western Minds

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] Missing in Action: Western Minds

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Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

i thought western 'experts' say the Russians are out of ammo and modern tanks

they're doing pretty well if they're worse off than what the west is saying lol

# ? Jul 14, 2023 18:56

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# ? May 20, 2024 16:48

tristeham: Jul 31, 2022

Officer Sandvich posted:

I feel a sense of dread after the NATO meeting ... It's not exactly unexpected that Ukraine didn't get the invite, but disappointing nonetheless. I think it was the passive aggressive statement by the UK defense minister, that Ukraine must show gratitude to keep support that bothers me the most. You try being polite when the god-damned Russian army is firing missiles at you while the enemy's propagandists are threatening to blow up your largest nuclear plant to 'force you to negotiate '. There's a little bit of urgency here, you'd think.

The message stings. Ukraine is stuck fighting the fight that NATO was built for. All Ukraine has to do: defeat the entire Russian army, navy and air force. Then, maybe, maybe they'll get an invite (what again is the point of NATO once Ukraine defeats what's left of the Soviet Union?).

Maybe Macron was right: maybe NATO is brain dead. Unfortunately, he is a member.

In the meantime, when there's a bit of free time, Ukraine: give thanks to the allies.

lol

# ? Jul 14, 2023 18:57

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

like the west has said the Russian army is a bunch of dumb barbarians that steal their own supplies and none of the logistics work and they have to steal toilet. How can they be worse than that?

# ? Jul 14, 2023 18:58

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

the quotes are coming from inside the forum.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:02

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Regarde Aduck posted:

like the west has said the Russian army is a bunch of dumb barbarians that steal their own supplies and none of the logistics work and they have to steal toilet. How can they be worse than that?

�We have only to kick in the door, and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down.�

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:02

CongoJack: Nov 5, 2009; Ask Why, Asshole

Regarde Aduck posted:

how do they square this with Ukraine failing to reach the first defense line? Do they know where the defense lines are? Do they know that there are defense lines?

as far as I can tell they briefly acknowledge that progress is slow and then move onto something that doesn�t matter at all but makes them feel better.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:04

Officer Sandvich: Feb 14, 2010

Regarde Aduck posted:

like the west has said the Russian army is a bunch of dumb barbarians that steal their own supplies and none of the logistics work and they have to steal toilet. How can they be worse than that?

What we have been learning these last weeks is that we simply don't have the stuff. This war is an old school trench war, with very little movement on either side, and some terror bombing from the Russians. We are not equipped for that, because it hasn't been relevant for 100 years.
Also, many European countries were reluctant to hand over their sparse stock because they were worried that they could be next. A year ago, most people feared the "formidable" Russian military force. Now that paper tiger has been taken down, it is OK to admit that we don't have enough relevant weapons, and also to hand over the last scraps to Ukraine while the military-industrial complex gears up to provide more of everything.
I can understand how that looks from a Ukrainian POV, but I hope and also trust things will change now. Though: changing the entire system does take time.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:06

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

CongoJack posted:

as far as I can tell they briefly acknowledge that progress is slow and then move onto something that doesn�t matter at all but makes them feel better.

Russia is running out of shells (smashing the Ukrainian Army to pieces)

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:06

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

Regarde Aduck posted:

how do they square this with Ukraine failing to reach the first defense line? Do they know where the defense lines are? Do they know that there are defense lines?

drat, putin must be paying you lots of money to post like this.

Ukrainian army is advancing and gaining meters of territory every single day.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:06

yellowcar: Feb 14, 2010

re: F-16 chat

it's probably easier to train a pilot from nothing than to re-train a Mig-29 pilot to fly a different plane and even then it'll take more than a year that nato war planners are proposing

which leads back to thinking that this is just for show to a home audience

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:07

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Officer Sandvich posted:

What we have been learning these last weeks is that we simply don't have the stuff. This war is an old school trench war, with very little movement on either side, and some terror bombing from the Russians. We are not equipped for that, because it hasn't been relevant for 100 years.
Also, many European countries were reluctant to hand over their sparse stock because they were worried that they could be next. A year ago, most people feared the "formidable" Russian military force. Now that paper tiger has been taken down, it is OK to admit that we don't have enough relevant weapons, and also to hand over the last scraps to Ukraine while the military-industrial complex gears up to provide more of everything.
I can understand how that looks from a Ukrainian POV, but I hope and also trust things will change now. Though: changing the entire system does take time.

i see

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:08

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

Officer Sandvich posted:

What we have been learning these last weeks is that we simply don't have the stuff. This war is an old school trench war, with very little movement on either side, and some terror bombing from the Russians. We are not equipped for that, because it hasn't been relevant for 100 years.
Also, many European countries were reluctant to hand over their sparse stock because they were worried that they could be next. A year ago, most people feared the "formidable" Russian military force. Now that paper tiger has been taken down, it is OK to admit that we don't have enough relevant weapons, and also to hand over the last scraps to Ukraine while the military-industrial complex gears up to provide more of everything.
I can understand how that looks from a Ukrainian POV, but I hope and also trust things will change now. Though: changing the entire system does take time.

A year ago, people were talking about naked russian soldiers stealing toilets.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:10

In Training: Jun 28, 2008

Is this guy fr

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:13

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Ardennes posted:

Yeah, the big issue at the moment is what is going on in Belarus and if Wagner forces are simply there to "advise" Belarussian forces or are actually preparing for a joint offensive with some Russian support. It is intentionally vague, but yeah some small scale pushes on the part of the Russians elsewhere.

Форпост posted:

_{(Click thumbnail to open video)}
🔥🇧🇾🇷🇺 Fighters from the Wagner PMCs have started conducting classes with units of the territorial troops of the Republic of Belarus.

Conscripts master the skills of moving on the battlefield and tactical shooting, gain knowledge of engineering training and tactical medicine.

@vorposte

_{(from t.me/vorposte/43750, via tgsa)}

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:13

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Officer Sandvich posted:

We are not equipped for that, because it hasn't been relevant for 100 years.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_u3ZOwlbMes&pp=ygUZYmF0dGxlIG9mIHRoZSBpbWppbiByaXZlcg%3D%3D

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bt7oAbDjVUU&pp=ygUZYmF0dGxlIG9mIHRoZSBpbWppbiByaXZlcg%3D%3D

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oO0WafV50i0&pp=ygUbYmF0dGxlIG9mIGltcGhhbCBhbmQga29oaW1h

Member of military defined by defensive battles and last stands: You want me to dig a what?

Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 19:15 on Jul 14, 2023

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:13

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

Officer Sandvich posted:

It's worth it to take a breath and look at the last year. Putin went into Ukraine confident that he could take over the country and make it into a vassal similar to Belarus. And to continue to split up the Western powers through media manipulation on the same route he had been working on for a decade or more, with le Pen in France, Brexit, the corrupt Germans (not all Germans are corrupt, but some were at the time), and of course, the whole Trump thing.

And now what he has achieved with the invasion of Ukraine has been the opposite: an extension of NATO all the way up to the polar circle, including new commitment to the alliance from the rather flaky Turkish government. Internal weakness in Russia at an unprecedented level, and they are running out of arms. My personal opinion about the Russian army is that they are far worse off than Western "experts" imagine. This is both a systemic issue in the West and in Russia: Russians at all levels naturally need to project strength and resilience, but in the West, we have a similar bias, because people at all levels want to present Russia as a dire threat, so we can train more soldiers and buy more weapons. I'm not saying Russia is not a threat, and I do support NATO, but I think we have more fear of their army than is rationally meaningful.

And BTW Brexit has strengthened, not weakened the EU. And remember the troll farms were Wagner operations. Not that the Russian government can't take over, but plausible deniability is gone with that. And we still don't know if the coup is still ongoing. On the other hand, the very real threat of a totalitarian coup in the USA is being slowly, but safely uncovered, and right now, I believe the perpetrators will be taken to justice.

Obviously, some things could be better. Yes, it will be a great day when Ukraine enters Nato, and also the EU. It would be even better if Russia could finally develop into a peaceful democracy. But one step at the time.

You're overplaying the bit. Pull it back

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:15

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g4XbMNXo34w&pp=ygUZYmF0dGxlIG9mIHRoZSBpbWppbiByaXZlcg%3D%3D

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:16

Hatebag: Jun 17, 2008

OctaMurk posted:

F16s can take off from much shorter runways than 2.44km, if they carry less weapons which is obvs a huge tradeoff. Theyd be able to like, lob one jdam and fly back? I dunno

To get the 550 km range they need external fuel tanks as well, so idk what their loading would be like for a short runway with the fuel tanks, but I'm not an army guy

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:22

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

lmao the inscrutable slavic savage ITYOOL 2023 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5z5HUS4tmM&t=657s

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:23

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

let the syq flow

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:26

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

🇷🇺 Donbass Media Group Z posted:

A mural dedicated to the children of Donbass, performed by the Italian artist Yorit Cerullo (creative pseudonym - Jorit), appeared in Mariupol. On the facade of a 9-storey building, the artist depicted a girl Nastya, behind whom NATO bombs are falling.

_{(from t.me/DonbassMediaGroup/32720, via tgsa)}

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:32

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

the anti fascists are finally fighting Ukraine ?

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:33

Not So Fast: Dec 27, 2007

Lostconfused posted:

_{(from t.me/DonbassMediaGroup/32720, via tgsa)}

The way both sides hype up being anti-fascist while being led by right-wing fascists is pathetic

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:36

OctaMurk: Jun 21, 2013

It should be remembered that Ukraine's counteroffensive is clearly currently in an attritional, probing phase where they are trying to degrade the Russian logistics and artillery, and identify weak points in the defences.

Once they've achieved that to a satisfactory degree, I think we will be surprised – or maybe shocked – at how rapidly the Ukrainians deal with the demoralised, underfed and underequipped men remaining in the Russian trenches. /end

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:41

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

OctaMurk posted:

It should be remembered that Ukraine's counteroffensive is clearly currently in an attritional, probing phase where they are trying to degrade the Russian logistics and artillery, and identify weak points in the defences.

Once they've achieved that to a satisfactory degree, I think we will be surprised – or maybe shocked – at how rapidly the Ukrainians deal with the demoralised, underfed and underequipped men remaining in the Russian trenches. /end

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:41

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

aren�t you supposed to capitalize on weaknesses as soon as they are identified

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:42

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

Ukraine is days from culmination

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:42

tristeham: Jul 31, 2022

OctaMurk posted:

It should be remembered that Ukraine's counteroffensive is clearly currently in an attritional, probing phase where they are trying to degrade the Russian logistics and artillery, and identify weak points in the defences.

Once they've achieved that to a satisfactory degree, I think we will be surprised – or maybe shocked – at how rapidly the Ukrainians deal with the demoralised, underfed and underequipped men remaining in the Russian trenches. /end

for sure buddy

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:45

supersnowman: Oct 3, 2012

Officer Sandvich posted:

I feel a sense of dread after the NATO meeting ... It's not exactly unexpected that Ukraine didn't get the invite, but disappointing nonetheless. I think it was the passive aggressive statement by the UK defense minister, that Ukraine must show gratitude to keep support that bothers me the most. You try being polite when the god-damned Russian army is firing missiles at you while the enemy's propagandists are threatening to blow up your largest nuclear plant to 'force you to negotiate '. There's a little bit of urgency here, you'd think.

The message stings. Ukraine is stuck fighting the fight that NATO was built for. All Ukraine has to do: defeat the entire Russian army, navy and air force. Then, maybe, maybe they'll get an invite (what again is the point of NATO once Ukraine defeats what's left of the Soviet Union?).

Maybe Macron was right: maybe NATO is brain dead. Unfortunately, he is a member.

In the meantime, when there's a bit of free time, Ukraine: give thanks to the allies.

SYQ

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:45

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

DO NOT CULMINATE.

DO NOT CULMINATE.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:48

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

premature culmination

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:49

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

Officer Sandvich posted:

What we have been learning these last weeks is that we simply don't have the stuff. This war is an old school trench war, with very little movement on either side, and some terror bombing from the Russians. We are not equipped for that, because it hasn't been relevant for 100 years.
Also, many European countries were reluctant to hand over their sparse stock because they were worried that they could be next. A year ago, most people feared the "formidable" Russian military force. Now that paper tiger has been taken down, it is OK to admit that we don't have enough relevant weapons, and also to hand over the last scraps to Ukraine while the military-industrial complex gears up to provide more of everything.
I can understand how that looks from a Ukrainian POV, but I hope and also trust things will change now. Though: changing the entire system does take time.

i'm p certain this is a bit, but then again i'm sure that there are people who actually believe that the west doesn't have the industrial capacity to fight a real war and this is a good thing actually

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:50

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

bits upon bits

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:51

A big flaming stink: Apr 26, 2010

bedpan posted:

Ukraine is days from culmination

I'm gonna culm! :chaostrump:

# ? Jul 14, 2023 20:02

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

Officer Sandvich posted:

I feel a sense of dread after the NATO meeting ... It's not exactly unexpected that Ukraine didn't get the invite, but disappointing nonetheless. I think it was the passive aggressive statement by the UK defense minister, that Ukraine must show gratitude to keep support that bothers me the most. You try being polite when the god-damned Russian army is firing missiles at you while the enemy's propagandists are threatening to blow up your largest nuclear plant to 'force you to negotiate '. There's a little bit of urgency here, you'd think.

The message stings. Ukraine is stuck fighting the fight that NATO was built for. All Ukraine has to do: defeat the entire Russian army, navy and air force. Then, maybe, maybe they'll get an invite (what again is the point of NATO once Ukraine defeats what's left of the Soviet Union?).

Maybe Macron was right: maybe NATO is brain dead. Unfortunately, he is a member.

In the meantime, when there's a bit of free time, Ukraine: give thanks to the allies.

I mean if NATO wanted to use Ukraine to prove what a massive moron Putin is and highlight the many ingrained dysfunctionalities of the Russian state and military I'd say they did a fantastic job, whether that will win them the war is still to be decided.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 20:06

Deadly Ham Sandwich: Aug 19, 2009; Smellrose

I am reminded why this forum is such a great place for discourse when you can read insightful posts and different opinions followed by cum jokes.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 20:10

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

VoicesCanBe posted:

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1679741285643452418?s=20

They're trying to get out of handing F16s over to Ukraine, it looks like

I guess a buch of F-16s getting evaporated by AA fire might cause a crack in the invincible narrative they've built over the last 3 decades

# ? Jul 14, 2023 20:13

Tankbuster: Oct 1, 2021

Regarde Aduck posted:

how do they square this with Ukraine failing to reach the first defense line? Do they know where the defense lines are? Do they know that there are defense lines?

priggy's tantrum proves roosia is a hollow state and will collapse any day now.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 20:16

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

F-16 is the starting plane in HAWX and the newest Ace Combat.

Why is anyone pretending it's cool?

# ? Jul 14, 2023 20:17

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# ? May 20, 2024 16:48

Hatebag: Jun 17, 2008

Lol they plan on using f16s til the 2040s

# ? Jul 14, 2023 20:17

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