Ukraine War: "20 months of war for a used car."

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Ukraine War: "20 months of war for a used car."

(Thread IKs: weg, Toxic Mental)

zone: Dec 6, 2016

Tai posted:

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1681164091316903937

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZtcwH3rRjw

Tankie - Russians don't do imperialism!

Too bad everyone sees what kind of a big joke Puccia and its army are now.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 13:25

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# ? May 31, 2024 09:42

Sedgr: Sep 16, 2007; Neat!

Putin is a real piece of poo poo.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 13:26

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

be the america russia wishes it were

# ? Jul 18, 2023 13:30

Nelson Mandingo: Mar 27, 2005

Alan Smithee posted:

be the america russia wishes it were

Countdown to impotent nuke threats.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 13:34

Bertha the Toaster: Jan 11, 2009

the popes toes posted:

https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1681111874157391872

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1681243581678333952

# ? Jul 18, 2023 13:51

Pot Smoke Phoenix: Aug 15, 2007; Smoke 'em if you gottem!; Dinosaur Gum

Nelson Mandingo posted:

Countdown to impotent nuke threats.

Nuke all of the nukes

With nukes

# ? Jul 18, 2023 13:51

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

I think this is a new one lol

# ? Jul 18, 2023 14:03

PookBear: Nov 1, 2008

in their defense the US does this all the time, congress members constantly tweet out russian jets on the birthday of the airforce

# ? Jul 18, 2023 14:04

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

billboard of Russian heroes Bonnie and Clyde with the Tommy Gun

that's still being used in Donbass

# ? Jul 18, 2023 14:05

Cartoon Man: Jan 31, 2004

https://i.imgur.com/F382zvN.mp4

Was able to get some leave right before the start of his girl�s prom night. Lol at the dodged hug to go see her dad instead.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 14:13

Cthulu Carl: Apr 16, 2006

Cartoon Man posted:

https://i.imgur.com/F382zvN.mp4

Was able to get some leave right before the start of his girl�s prom night. Lol at the dodged hug to go see her dad instead.

lmao that girl got fuckin' rejected hard

# ? Jul 18, 2023 14:38

Tai: Mar 8, 2006

Those evil nazis letting their troops go on leave for compassionate reasons. Real men don't do this! loving homos

# ? Jul 18, 2023 14:40

Nelson Mandingo: Mar 27, 2005

Guys I don't think The Russian Federation is going to be the country that leads the world into the 21st century at this point.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 14:40

Von Pluring: Sep 19, 2003; Zelensky's Zealots; Pork Pro

Cartoon Man posted:

https://i.imgur.com/F382zvN.mp4

Was able to get some leave right before the start of his girl�s prom night. Lol at the dodged hug to go see her dad instead.

Goddamn it. gently caress putin and russia forever

# ? Jul 18, 2023 14:49

Rugz: Apr 15, 2014; PLS SEE AVATAR. P.S. IM A BELL END LOL

Tai posted:

Those evil nazis letting their troops go on leave for compassionate reasons. Real men don't do this! loving homos

Real men are allowed to 'rest'. But only if they are a disgraced member of the upper echelon of military command.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 14:51

Disco Pope: Dec 6, 2004; Top Class!

Nelson Mandingo posted:

Guys I don't think The Russian Federation is going to be the country that leads the world into the 21st century at this point.

I'd be impressed if they got themselves into the 20th myself.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 14:52

The_Franz: Aug 8, 2003

Tai posted:

Those evil nazis letting their troops go on leave for compassionate reasons. Real men don't do this! loving homos

Real Russian fathers join the army to get money to buy their spoiled brat child a phone, because, apparently, not getting paid by your job is the norm in Russia.

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1604548265802096641#m

Not pictured: dear dad looting that iPhone from some random house after the family fled.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 14:53

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Neddy Seagoon posted:

What? How do you manage that?

Mobiks don't get much training

# ? Jul 18, 2023 14:58

Shaman Tank Spec: Dec 26, 2003; *blep*

The_Franz posted:

Real Russian fathers join the army to get money to buy their spoiled brat child a phone, because, apparently, not getting paid by your job is the norm in Russia.

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1604548265802096641#m

Not pictured: dear dad looting that iPhone from some random house after the family fled.

This is just sad. People are people everywhere, and most people want to give their children and loved ones the best things they can. It's kinda heartbreaking that Putin and his rear end in a top hat cronies have managed to create a country where that means signing up as gristle for their meat grinder while they desperately cling to their power and they just ... loving advertise it as such. "Want to give your children the things they want? Be cannon fodder in my illegal war! It's not like you have other options!"

# ? Jul 18, 2023 15:04

Tai: Mar 8, 2006

The_Franz posted:

Real Russian fathers join the army to get money to buy their spoiled brat child a phone, because, apparently, not getting paid by your job is the norm in Russia.

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1604548265802096641#m

Not pictured: dear dad looting that iPhone from some random house after the family fled.

ahahhahahahahah omg. I don't know if I should howl with laughter at this video or be depressed that a video like this actually exists

# ? Jul 18, 2023 15:09

Rugz: Apr 15, 2014; PLS SEE AVATAR. P.S. IM A BELL END LOL

Shaman Tank Spec posted:

This is just sad. People are people everywhere, and most people want to give their children and loved ones the best things they can. It's kinda heartbreaking that Putin and his rear end in a top hat cronies have managed to create a country where that means signing up as gristle for their meat grinder while they desperately cling to their power and they just ... loving advertise it as such. "Want to give your children the things they want? Be cannon fodder in my illegal war! It's not like you have other options!"

That's not quite how they advertise it, they aren't telling them to go off and die for a phone. They are tapping into the hyper-individualism and apathy of Russian people. The part that makes people in Moscow say 'Well I haven't been dragged away so I don't care', the part that makes people on a beach TikTok a pilot crashing and drowning while sitting next to jet skis and boats. They are telling them to go off and kill people for a phone, and since those people aren't you why would you refuse such an offer?

Edit: Although they did also put out a different one which had the gist of 'Men join the army'. Not quite sure how that squares with their new laws since the implication is that if you don't join the army you aren't a man and that is just straight up illegal.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 15:13

InsertPotPun: Apr 16, 2018; Pissy Bitch stan

"relive your glory days in war!"
also it took him six months to buy that phone

# ? Jul 18, 2023 15:15

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Also, you don't get to keep the phone, she only gets to hold it for 5 minutes a month.

However, you can have tons of fish ice cubes!

# ? Jul 18, 2023 15:16

DiomedesGodshill: Feb 21, 2009

Are Russian soldiers actually being rotated back for leave? Well other than that one ~~rebellion~~ protest.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 15:18

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

DiomedesGodshill posted:

Are Russian soldiers actually being rotated back for leave? Well other than that one ~~rebellion~~ protest.

Nope. They are not. They do not have the units to rotate anyone. So those on the front are stuck at the front until they are dead or triple amputees.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 15:26

Tai: Mar 8, 2006

DiomedesGodshill posted:

Are Russian soldiers actually being rotated back for leave? Well other than that one ~~rebellion~~ protest.

I'm sure some are but by the scale of videos asking for time off, a lot aren't. I'm sure mobiks are getting the worst treatment.

It's really poo poo because you NEED to have a break after 2-3 months from this or your brain rewires itself. Domestic violence for example has exploded in Russia because of people spending a year at the front.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 15:26

beer_war: Mar 10, 2005

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1681240456754077697.html

Good thread, it's worth reading in full, but the tl;dr is that this will continue to be a bloody slog for weeks and months unfortunately.

quote:

New🧵: @konrad_muzyka , @RALee85 , @KofmanMichael,& I spent some time this month visiting the frontlines in Ukraine to gain new insights into the ongoing counteroffensive & the war overall. Here are some general observations.

(Note: More detailed analysis will be coming out by all of us in the coming weeks.)

First off, we spoke to NCOs, officers, a number of brigade commanders (national guard & regular army) in the field plus senior intel & defense officials in Kyiv (alongside @DAlperovitch).
Counteroffensive:

1.) By and large this is an infantryman�s fight (squad, platoon & company level) supported by artillery along most of the frontline. This has several implications: 1st: Progress is measured by yards/meters and not km/miles given reduced mobility.
2nd: Mechanized formations are rarely deployed due to lack of enablers for maneuver. This includes insufficient quantities of de-mining equipment, air defenses, ATGMs etc.

2.) Ukrainian forces have still not mastered combined arms operations at scale. Operations are more sequential than synchronized. This creates various problems for the offense & IMO is the main cause for slow progress.

3.) 🇺🇦 forces by default have switched to a strategy of attrition relying on sequential fires rather than maneuver. This is the reason why cluster munitions are critical to extend current fire rates into the fall: weakening Russian defenses to a degree that enables maneuver.

4.) Minefields are a problem as most observers know. They confine maneuver space & slow advances. But much more impactful than the minefields per se on Ukraine�s ability to break through Russian defenses is 🇺🇦s inability to conduct complex combined arms operations at scale.

Lack of a comprehensive combined arms approach at scale makes Ukrainian forces more vulnerable to Russian ATGMs, artillery etc. while advancing. So it's not just about equipment. There�s simply no systematic pulling apart of the Russian defensive system that I could observe.

5.) The character of this offensive will only likely change if there is a more systematic approach to breaking through Russian defenses, perhaps paired with or causing a severe degradation of Russian morale, that will lead to a sudden or gradual collapse of Russian defenses.

Absent a sudden collapse of Russian defenses, I suspect this will remain a bloody attritional fight with reserve units being fed in incrementally in the coming weeks & months.

6.) There is limited evidence of a systematic deep battle that methodically degrades Russian C2/munitions. Despite rationing on the Russian side, ammunition is available and Russians appear to have fairly good battlefield ISR coverage.
Russians also had no need to deploy operational reserves yet to fend off Ukrainian attacks.There is also evidence of reduced impact of HIMARS strikes due to effective Russian countermeasures. (This is important to keep in mind re. any potential tac. impact of delivery of ATACMs.)

Russian forces, even if severely degraded & lacking ammo, are likely capable of delaying, containing or repulsing individual platoon- or company-sized Ukrainian advances unless these attacks are better coordinated & synchronized along the broader frontline.

7.) Quality of Russian forces varies. Attrition is hitting them hard but they are defending their positions well, according to Ukrainians we spoke to. They have been quite adaptable at the tactical level and are broadly defending according to Soviet/Russian doctrine.

8.) Russian artillery rationing is real & happening. Ukraine has established fire superiority in tube artillery while Russia retains superiority in MRLSs in the South. Localized fire superiority in some calibers alone does not suffice, however, to break through Russian defenses.

9.) An additional influx of weapons systems (e.g., ATACMs, air defense systems, MBTs, IFVs etc.) while important to sustain the war effort, will likely not have a decisive tactical impact without adaptation and more effective integration.
Ukraine will have to better synchronize & adapt current tactics, without which western equipment will not prove tac. decisive in the long run. This is happening but it is slow work in progress. (Most NATO-style militaries would struggle with this even more than the 🇺🇦s IMO).

10.) The above is also true for breaching operations. Additional mine clearing equipment is needed & will be helpful (especially man-portable mine-clearing systems) but not decisive without better integration of fire & maneuver at scale.
(Again, I cannot emphasize enough how difficult this is to pull off in wartime.)

Monocausal explanations for failure (like lack of de-mining equipment) do not reflect reality. E.g., some Ukrainian assaults were stopped by Russian ATGMs even before reaching the 1st 🇷🇺 minefield.

11.) There is a dearth of artillery barrels that is difficult to address given production rates and delivery timelines.

12.) So far Ukraine�s approach in this counteroffensive has been first and foremost direct assaults on Russian positions supported by a rudimentary deep battle approach. And no, these direct assaults are not mere probing attacks.

13.) There is evidence of tactical cyber operations supporting closing of kinetic kill-chains. That is cyber ISR contributing to identifying & tracking targets on the battlefield. Starlink remains absolutely key for Ukrainian C2.

14.) Quality of Ukrainian officers and NCOs we met appears excellent & morale remains high. However, there are some force quality issues emerging with less able bodied & older men called up for service now.

15.) The narrative that Ukrainian progress thus far is slow just because of a lack of weapons deliveries and support is monocausal & is not shared by those we spoke to actually fighting & exercising command on the frontline.

16.) It goes without saying that in a war of attrition, more artillery ammunition & hardware is always needed and needs to be steadily supplied. (Western support of Ukraine certainly should continue as there is still the prospect that the counteroffensive will make gains.)

But soldiers fighting on the frontline we spoke to are all too aware that lack of progress is often more due to force employment, poor tactics, lack of coordination btw. units, bureaucratic red tape/infighting, Soviet style thinking etc. & ...Russians putting up stiff resistance.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 15:27

Disco Pope: Dec 6, 2004; Top Class!

Rugz posted:

That's not quite how they advertise it, they aren't telling them to go off and die for a phone. They are tapping into the hyper-individualism and apathy of Russian people. The part that makes people in Moscow say 'Well I haven't been dragged away so I don't care', the part that makes people on a beach TikTok a pilot crashing and drowning while sitting next to jet skis and boats. They are telling them to go off and kill people for a phone, and since those people aren't you why would you refuse such an offer?

Edit: Although they did also put out a different one which had the gist of 'Men join the army'. Not quite sure how that squares with their new laws since the implication is that if you don't join the army you aren't a man and that is just straight up illegal.

Does the advertising differ by area? I know that St Petersburg and Moscow are fairly insulated and that most recruitment came from poorer and more ethnic areas. I've wondered if the invocation of Satan so frequently is propaganda for particular religious or social groups.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 15:29

zone: Dec 6, 2016

Tai posted:

I'm sure some are but by the scale of videos asking for time off, a lot aren't. I'm sure mobiks are getting the worst treatment.

It's really poo poo because you NEED to have a break after 2-3 months from this or your brain rewires itself. Domestic violence for example has exploded in Russia because of people spending a year at the front.

Some are as long as they bribe their CO with a minimum of 100,000 rubbles. Very few commanders actually let anyone go on leave either for compassionate reasons (a rarity) or with a fat bribe paid for the purpose.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 15:29

PC LOAD LETTER: May 23, 2005; WTF?!

Ripperljohn posted:

weren't they supposed to be out of AA missiles already?

Not exactly.

Ukraine was running low on S-300 missiles (still are) but they still have some.

Around late 2022/early 2023 they started getting replaced or augmented with Patriots, NASAMS, Iris-T, Hawks, and heaps of various older stuff that NATO had laying around and was getting near ready to be tossed out but still works apparently.

The older stuff's effectiveness I think has been rather iffy for shooting down missiles or jets but actually decent for anti helicopter and anti drone work so you'll still see pics of teams of guys in the fields using it from time to time.

The newer stuff (Patriot, NASAMS, Iris-T) is apparently pretty drat good at shooting down missiles and absolutely deadly for fighters or helicopters. Its just that they still don't have as many as they probably really need yet. They are getting more of all that as time goes on but its going really slowly. Especially for systems like Iris-T. I guess the manufacturers didn't expect to have to produce more than a handful of them per year for years so that is all they built their factories for.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 15:37

zone: Dec 6, 2016

PC LOAD LETTER posted:

Not exactly.

Ukraine was running low on S-300 missiles (still are) but they still have some.

Around late 2022/early 2023 they started getting replaced or augmented with Patriots, NASAMS, Iris-T, Hawks, and heaps of various older stuff that NATO had laying around and was getting near ready to be tossed out but still works apparently.

The older stuff's effectiveness I think has been rather iffy for shooting down missiles or jets but actually decent for anti helicopter and anti drone work so you'll still see pics of teams of guys in the fields using it from time to time.

The newer stuff (Patriot, NASAMS, Iris-T) is apparently pretty drat good at shooting down missiles and absolutely deadly for fighters or helicopters. Its just that they still don't have as many as they probably really need yet. They are getting more of all that as time goes on but its going really slowly. Especially for systems like Iris-T. I guess the manufacturers didn't expect to have to produce more than a handful of them per year for years so that is all they built their factories for.

100 HAWK phase 3 systems are going to be delivered to Ukraine soon, along with other SHORAD type systems, in the upcoming aid packages. Right now they're most in need for SHORAD to cover their attacks against defense lines and more systems on the back line to improve the AA net.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 15:40

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

Bertha the Toaster posted:

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1681243581678333952

That bridge is incredibly hosed. That asphalt is going to give way and someone is going to die and I hope it�s not a civilian.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 15:47

Rugz: Apr 15, 2014; PLS SEE AVATAR. P.S. IM A BELL END LOL

Disco Pope posted:

Does the advertising differ by area? I know that St Petersburg and Moscow are fairly insulated and that most recruitment came from poorer and more ethnic areas. I've wondered if the invocation of Satan so frequently is propaganda for particular religious or social groups.

As far as I can tell that is something that either gets people going or they ignore it entirely. If fighting the antichrist gets you up in the morning you will latch onto it, but the flipside isn't dismissal it is just convenient ignorance of that particular statement.

For example if they were to say 'Zelensky is the spawn of Satan and needs to be stopped' there are two messages in that tailored for two groups.
Group 1: Zelensky is the spawn of Satan
Group 2: Zelensky needs to be stopped

You don't need to remove the religious posturing to filter the message for cityfolk because they filter it themselves.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 15:47

beer_war: Mar 10, 2005

Russia: Ukraine is killing our citizens and suppressing our language. Oh, and they shot down MH17. We are very serious about this and demand the perpetrators be brought to justice!

Also Russia: We can't be arsed to reply to the court's emails.

ECHR: Get the gently caress out of here.

https://twitter.com/MollyQuell/status/1681218655458058242?s=20

beer_war fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Jul 18, 2023

# ? Jul 18, 2023 16:01

zone: Dec 6, 2016

beer_war posted:

Russia: Ukraine is killing our citizens and suppressing our language. Oh, and they shot down MH17. We are very serious about this and demand the perpetrators be brought to justice!

Also Russia: We can't be arsed to reply to the court's emails.

ECHR: Get the gently caress out of here.

https://twitter.com/MollyQuell/status/1681218655458058242?s=20

lmao

and stay out, vatnik shitheads

# ? Jul 18, 2023 16:07

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

beer_war posted:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1681240456754077697.html

Good thread, it's worth reading in full, but the tl;dr is that this will continue to be a bloody slog for weeks and months unfortunately.

Thanks. That's obviously not looking great. I dunno if it was realistic to expect combined arms maneuver tactics to be widely implemented and practiced in the middle of the war but I certainly hoped so.

Not sure about the gear though. A dozen more tanks obviously wouldn't change things much but more artillery barrels and shells sure as hell could flatten the defensive lines pretty well. Not to mention the air power. Also really cool that we waited so long for ATACMS that they now possibly have countermeasures for MLRS, good job.

# ? Jul 18, 2023 16:19

Roman Reigns: Aug 23, 2007

beer_war posted:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1681240456754077697.html

Good thread, it's worth reading in full, but the tl;dr is that this will continue to be a bloody slog for weeks and months unfortunately.

Wonder where all those reserve brigades Ukraine has fit in all this

# ? Jul 18, 2023 16:47