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I bet there are people who refuse to work on the same ship as betazoids.
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Jul 19, 2023 13:07
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Eighties ZomCom posted:Kind of like when those handsome fish people wake up and Lwaxanna is like, lol they're terrorists and they're gonna blow up the conference. nonsense mick fleetwood would never do such a thing
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Jul 19, 2023 13:07
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MuddyFunster posted:It's interesting, I know people have a thing about Troi, but early on at least, I'm finding her pretty handy for upping the pace of stories. Just an aside like "He's hiding something..." amps the intrigue immediately. Of course, I don't know how any of these characters evolve, she might get way worse. Might get reduced back to how she was in the pilot, bleating "PAIN! PAIN! HORRIBLY ICKY PAAAAIN!" Yeah, I'm doing a rewatch of TNG right now and I mostly agree. Wesley's really only bad in the first season, but after that he gets better (like most of the cast). As for Troi, I like her, but she still remains fairly under-written as a character, even into Season 4. FlamingLiberal posted:You’ll notice that Troi conveniently disappears in episodes where the conflict could be avoided by her being around Yeah, it's pretty noticeable in the Pakled episode, where she comes onto the bridge right after they've already sent Geordi to the Pakleds' ship and goes "those guys are lying to you". Arivia posted:nonsense mick fleetwood would never do such a thing I saw his name in the opening credits for that episode during my rewatch, and I spent the whole episode trying to spot him lol
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Jul 19, 2023 15:32
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I love how Troi repeatedly warns Riker against the Pakleds and he just stares at her glassily.
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Jul 19, 2023 15:39
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davidspackage posted:I love how Troi repeatedly warns Riker against the Pakleds and he just stares at her glassily. Worf also warned against giving them Geordi. Worf gives a lot of good advice that gets ignored.
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Jul 19, 2023 15:41
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DaveWoo posted:Worf also warned against giving them Geordi. Worf is not only often ignored, but also denied, rejected, and humiliated https://youtu.be/edflm7Hh3hs
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Jul 19, 2023 15:47
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DaveWoo posted:Worf also warned against giving them Geordi. Nobody on the bridge even processes what Worf says, it's all just <grunt, snarl> to them and then someone says "I think that might be a bit excessive, Mr. Worf." Worf: assholes, I was asking if anyone wants to do prune juice shots & painsticks after work.
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Jul 19, 2023 15:47
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Worf's existence on TNG boils down to "Captain, I would like to solve the problem of this week's episode in thirty seconds." "Worf are you daft it's five minutes in, we have to stretch this out to 45 minutes, gently caress off."
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Jul 19, 2023 16:04
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Speaking of Troi, I'm watching the episode where Troi loses her empathic ability right now, and I feel like this episode was written by someone who doesn't like Troi very much.
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Jul 19, 2023 16:16
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I get a good laugh out of how 80s the idea of the captain of the ship having his XO in the seat to his right and his therapist to his left.
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Jul 19, 2023 16:22
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MuddyFunster posted:Might get reduced back to how she was in the pilot, bleating "PAIN! PAIN! HORRIBLY ICKY PAAAAIN!" Yeah, in the pilot, she was playing it more that she didn't just read emotions, she felt them right along with whoever she was sensing. Which could have been an interesting way to do it, but unfortunately the plot of Encounter at Farpoint really only gave opportunities for her to be wailing in pain over and over, and not much else. If there'd been a more mixed bag in the script, it could have been a chance for her to show off some variety in her acting chops, but as it was, the audience mostly rolled their eyes. So after the pilot, Troi's ability was made less dramatic and more matter-of-fact. Which was both a good thing and a bad thing. It mostly prevented Farpoint-style cringeworthy moments, but it also reduced one of the character's main points of interest.
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Jul 19, 2023 16:24
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This episode also reminds me of one of the reasons Troi feels underwritten - Guinan got all of the good "giving advice" scenes!
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Jul 19, 2023 16:26
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jeeves posted:I get a good laugh out of how 80s the idea of the captain of the ship having his XO in the seat to his right and his therapist to his left. The original plans had her duties on the bridge as being more of a xenosociologist than as a therapist, but they never really used her like that well and eventually mostly just fell back to 'she's the therapist and also remote emotion scanner' (We say it's a very 80s idea but I gotta say, Disco could really use a bridge therapist)
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Jul 19, 2023 16:28
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DaveWoo posted:Speaking of Troi, I'm watching the episode where Troi loses her empathic ability right now, and I feel like this episode was written by someone who doesn't like Troi very much. They make her into an enormous rear end in a top hat without her abilities
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Jul 19, 2023 16:29
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I don't know if it's intentional or not, but The Loss also kinda proves the point of fans who say that Troi wasn't that great of a counselor outside of using her empathic abilities.
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Jul 19, 2023 16:31
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I don't know if it's intentional or not, but The Loss also kinda proves the point of fans who say that Troi wasn't that great of a counselor outside of using her empathic abilities. In fairness, she was freshly-traumatized by a sudden disability and having trouble adjusting. Like if a human counselor who was really good at reading facial expressions suddenly went blind, we'd give them a bit of slack if it took them more than a couple of days to adapt to working audio-only.
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Jul 19, 2023 16:36
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troi gets a couple of alright episodes later in the series but the early ones eeeesh
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Jul 19, 2023 16:38
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DaveWoo posted:Speaking of Troi, I'm watching the episode where Troi loses her empathic ability right now, and I feel like this episode was written by someone who doesn't like Troi very much. I think the biggest failure of that episode is you never get an idea of what losing her special power is like, other than her talk with Riker where she describes it as if people aren't really there anymore, which sounds scary. You just have everyone going "oh well, now you're like the rest of us" and her being a big bitch about it. I think they should've put in some POV shots for Troi where people sound like weirdly muted, or maybe have her mom come in and it being really upsetting that they can't telepathically talk anymore. The idea of the ep was that it was like sudden blindness or deafness, but that doesn't work if it's an empathic ability nobody in real life has, other than people on social media
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Jul 19, 2023 17:01
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davidspackage posted:I think the biggest failure of that episode is you never get an idea of what losing her special power is like, other than her talk with Riker where she describes it as if people aren't really there anymore, which sounds scary. You just have everyone going "oh well, now you're like the rest of us" and her being a big bitch about it. Yeah, I agree that this is one of the biggest problems with the episode. Also, now that I think about it, I'm surprised Geordi isn't featured more in the episode, given that Troi's condition is literally compared to blindness.
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Jul 19, 2023 17:17
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I did like all the stuff in Arsenal of Freedom last night where she's quietly observing Geordie in command, him dealing with rando-engineer-of-the-week who wants to take over. I thought that'd lead to some kind of "I sense that you truly don't feel you're up to this" talk and maybe he'd cede command or something. But no! She just goes "You're stressed, but you got this, maybe give the ensigns a pep talk, they're making GBS threads themselves."
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Jul 19, 2023 17:43
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In the first season or two she seems to really more more of a counsellor in that the counsels the captain, in the old definition of the word.
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Jul 19, 2023 17:59
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MikeJF posted:In the first season or two she seems to really more more of a counsellor in that the counsels the captain, in the old definition of the word. According to 50YM, originally she was supposed to be an intelligence officer, who would consult captain on the matters related to Starfleet intelligence and other sensitive matters; that's what originally bought her the third front seat. But then her role was retooled into what we got, and the "resident spy" side of her characters was written out of the drafts and already existing scripts.
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Jul 19, 2023 20:17
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Is she actually #3 in chain of command on the ship, or do they ever really get into that?
MrMojok fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jul 19, 2023 |
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Jul 19, 2023 20:18
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MrMojok posted:Is she actually #3 months n chain of command on the ship, or do they ever really get into that? No, she didn’t even become a commander until mid season 6 when she sends Holo-Geordi to his death even though the ship is full of much lower ranking expendable officers. I think chain of command is Captain, XO, then Crusher due to her being a commander the entire time? It never made much sense unlike in TOS where it is explicitly Kirk-Spock-Scotty
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Jul 19, 2023 20:21
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She's not in the chain of command at all and they shine a light on it in "Disaster" and "Thine Own Self". Edit: The chain is Picard-Riker-Data and Crusher can sub in when she feels like it
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Jul 19, 2023 20:21
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CPColin posted:She's not in the chain of command at all and they shine a light on it in "Disaster" and "Thine Own Self". Yup. Data is second officer despite being a Lt. Commander. Crusher outranks Data and is command-certified, but that doesn't put her in the chain of command. It just means if they're not around and she is, she can captain.
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Jul 19, 2023 20:25
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Chain of command and rank are different concepts, which like most military things Trek tends to be fuzzy about. Medical people would be staff officers who are not in the main command structure but instead have their own within their field.
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Jul 19, 2023 20:40
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Grand Fromage posted:Chain of command and rank are different concepts, which like most military things Trek tends to be fuzzy about. Medical people would be staff officers who are not in the main command structure but instead have their own within their field. Beverly makes this point when Troi asks her why she went for commander rank, that it was an opportunity to get out of Sickbay and actually enjoy the quiet night shift on the Bridge.
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Jul 19, 2023 20:47
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It's very helpful that all those aliens only attack during the day shift.
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Jul 19, 2023 21:14
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Payndz posted:It's very helpful that all those aliens only attack during the day shift. we've seen what happens when they don't https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4ApQrbhQp8
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Jul 19, 2023 21:21
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Grand Fromage posted:Chain of command and rank are different concepts, which like most military things Trek tends to be fuzzy about. Medical people would be staff officers who are not in the main command structure but instead have their own within their field. Plus, there's a lot of stuff that would make more sense in the naval tradition and with the scale of the crew and operation. Picard should probably been a Rear Admiral. Riker (CO) and Data (XO) would have been captains. Geordi and Crusher captains too. Worf would be a Colonel. Then there'd probably be an overall commander of the science operations (akin to the CAG on a carrier), who is also a captain. And probably another 15 or 20 staff officers of at least commander rank. Although they probably wouldn't need some roles like public relations on the staff, but would need additional diplomatic roles. Hell, they'd probably have a CAG too.
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Jul 20, 2023 00:07
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Polished off the last of TNG S1 and boy howdy, that Conspiracy, eh? That sure was a sweaty load of weird, dark paranoia. Pretty gross too what with all the maggot eating and of course, the famous head explosion, which is nice to have some context for finally. Did not know about the gross bug sitting in the exploded corpse though, that was downright ghoulish. Unsettling ending too. But then the actual season finale The Neutral Zone feels like a weird mash up of TOS and TNG sensibilities as I recognise them. The TOS-ness comes with the oddball trio of frozen folk struggling to acclimatize to the 24th century, fun, funny and I always find that particular story idea a poignant one. Then the TNG vibe of diplomacy with WEIRD FOREHEAD ROMULANS being smug dicks in their stupid shoulder pads. That's another outsider-looking-in thing. Maybe they make for great stories down the line, but the visual of them is pretty daft. Beats the poo poo out of the Ferengi though. And it's always nice to see Anthony James pop up in something, no matter how brief the part. Overall, I've had a good time with the series so far! A pretty crap early clutch of episodes got me taking it very slowly, just an episode every now and then until I hit a sweet spot and have been taking them two at a time for the last week or so. Should I keep posting my thoughts on the rest of the show as I go? I thought you guys would appreciate a first timer's experiences, but if you want me to cool off, I'll do so.
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Jul 20, 2023 00:15
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MuddyFunster posted:Should I keep posting my thoughts on the rest of the show as I go? I thought you guys would appreciate a first timer's experiences, but if you want me to cool off, I'll do so. Oh please keep going. It's always interesting to see somebody's first reactions to something I literally grew up watching.
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Jul 20, 2023 00:22
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Sash! posted:Plus, there's a lot of stuff that would make more sense in the naval tradition and with the scale of the crew and operation. TOS is filthy with commodores
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Jul 20, 2023 00:36
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TOS: filthy commod(or)es.
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Jul 20, 2023 00:37
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MuddyFunster posted:Should I keep posting my thoughts on the rest of the show as I go? I thought you guys would appreciate a first timer's experiences, but if you want me to cool off, I'll do so.  (Given the episodic nature of TNG, there's probably no reason to create a spoiler-free blind watch thread in Sci-Fi Wifi, like a number of other shows have. Posting your reactions here works fine, I think.)
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Jul 20, 2023 00:47
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Sash! posted:Plus, there's a lot of stuff that would make more sense in the naval tradition and with the scale of the crew and operation. That kind of arrangement would definitely be more realistic, but wouldn't be as easy to follow for casual viewers. They do mention department heads and lower staff now and then on TNG but yeah, it's kinda crazy that seemingly all of the ship's operations are managed by the day shift senior staff.
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Jul 20, 2023 01:02
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Watching TOS now and it's kinda funny how often there's some crisis and Kirk wants reports from all department heads. Like, yeah, Ron Howard's brother is threatening to blow up the ship, let's get a report from the head of the history department.
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Jul 20, 2023 01:20
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MuddyFunster posted:Should I keep posting my thoughts on the rest of the show as I go? I thought you guys would appreciate a first timer's experiences, but if you want me to cool off, I'll do so.  If you're discouraged because people aren't quoting you, don't be! Fresh looks are like delicious organs for our phage-raddled bodies! (in time, you will understand this)
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Jul 20, 2023 01:29
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phage riddled or phage addled. HOW PRETTY ARE WE SAYING DANARA PEL IS
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Jul 20, 2023 01:40
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