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Charles Bukowski posted:If a post was blanked to avoid a derail or drama, it wasn't abuse. Why the hyperbole? None of this is a big loving deal. Blanking posts outside specific extreme cases has never really been a thing here outside the FYAD style forums. It's always been common sense that you don't do that, and if you do then you will lose your buttons. By popular acclamation, and edict from above it is abuse, and the common punishment for it reflects that yes, it is a fairly large deal within the usual scope of moderation. My suggestion is that if you want to try and change that policy then your best bet would be making a thread in SAD to talk about it because it's a forum-wide issue as opposed to just GBS.
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Jul 21, 2023 17:17
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Jul 21, 2023 17:19
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Jul 21, 2023 17:21
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yup.
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Jul 21, 2023 17:21
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Babe Magnet posted:... lol
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Jul 21, 2023 17:26
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Blanking posts outside specific extreme cases has never really been a thing here outside the FYAD style forums. It's always been common sense that you don't do that, and if you do then you will lose your buttons. By popular acclamation, and edict from above it is abuse, and the common punishment for it reflects that yes, it is a fairly large deal within the usual scope of moderation. My anecdote is that I haven't heard anyone complaining about loving around with posts until relatively recently, and from people I tend to lump together as "agitators." If I'm in the minority than I apologize for my sweeping remarks, but it smacks of much ado about nothing to me. Just post and have fun 
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Jul 21, 2023 17:28
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Charles Bukowski posted:If a post was blanked to avoid a derail or drama, it wasn't abuse. Why the hyperbole? None of this is a big loving deal. of all the things someone with the measly little authority of an ik, mod or admin of a 2.5 decades old internet forum could do wrong, blanking someone's posts without good reason has to be like top 5, only behind stuff like reading/posting someone's pms / sensitive info without permission or using the forums sell drugs or some poo poo. no it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things but in the context of that position of authority yes it absolutely is a big deal
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Jul 21, 2023 17:28
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Charles Bukowski posted:If a post was blanked to avoid a derail or drama, it wasn't abuse. Why the hyperbole? None of this is a big loving deal. It's a big deal because we cannot go back and see what it says unless quoted. We are trusted with extra functions on this site and using them outside of expectations is a breach of trust. It might not be a big deal to you but to the admin staff it is a huge deal.
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Jul 21, 2023 17:29
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Charles Bukowski posted:from people I tend to lump together as "agitators." found the problem
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Jul 21, 2023 17:31
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noticing the agitator crew has been fairyl active recently. anyone else noticing this>?
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Jul 21, 2023 17:34
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Posts aren't important pieces of public report and editing an inconsequential post is such a pretty thing to get pissy about or to call "abuse" lol that it's hard not to see it as performative. That was the case with the supposed grand conspiracy between cinci and Franz as well.
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Jul 21, 2023 17:35
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I stopped posting on an industry forum a few years ago because they started editing posts for 'better SEO'. It's weird to see your identity associated with words someone else has written.Charles Bukowski posted:My anecdote is that I haven't heard anyone complaining about loving around with posts until relatively recently, and from people I tend to lump together as "agitators." Can I see the list?
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Jul 21, 2023 17:37
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steinrokkan posted:Posts aren't important pieces of public report and editing an inconsequential post is such a pretty thing to get pissy about or to call "abuse" lol that it's hard not to see it as performative. That was the case with the supposed grand conspiracy between cinci and Franz as well. I could edit your posts declaring that you love children without leaving a trace that I did it. How is that okay?
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Jul 21, 2023 17:37
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:noticing the agitator crew has been fairyl active recently. anyone else noticing this>? now that you mention it..... hmmmmm............
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Jul 21, 2023 17:40
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welp time to round up the agitators. I'll start the spreadsheet
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Jul 21, 2023 17:41
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Charles Bukowski posted:My anecdote is that I haven't heard anyone complaining about loving around with posts until relatively recently, and from people I tend to lump together as "agitators." If I'm in the minority than I apologize for my sweeping remarks, but it smacks of much ado about nothing to me. Just post and have fun Show us the spreadsheet EDIT: it hasn't been done a lot until recently which is why Agitator Crew started doing more noticing Tokyo Sexwale fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Jul 21, 2023 |
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Jul 21, 2023 17:41
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steinrokkan posted:Posts aren't important pieces of public report and editing an inconsequential post is such a pretty thing to get pissy about or to call "abuse" lol that it's hard not to see it as performative.
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Jul 21, 2023 17:41
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steinrokkan posted:Posts aren't important pieces of public report exactly, which is why there is very little reason for someone to think "i should edit or blank this" unless it is dangerous material. iks are not there to clean up posts and when they do they should have a good explanation as to why they did it. i even think leeway can be given for misidentifying pii or misclicking while posting in a fast moving thread, but that's entirely different circumstances
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Jul 21, 2023 17:45
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steinrokkan posted:Posts aren't important pieces of public report and editing an inconsequential post is such a pretty thing to get pissy about or to call "abuse" lol that it's hard not to see it as performative. That was the case with the supposed grand conspiracy between cinci and Franz as well. I wouldn't post on a website where I thought it was even remotely acceptable for admins or mods or iks to ever do this, except in the most extreme cases. I think most people probably feel the same way.
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Jul 21, 2023 17:46
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I wish I was an agitator :(
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Jul 21, 2023 17:48
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steinrokkan posted:Posts aren't important pieces of public report and editing an inconsequential post is such a pretty thing to get pissy about or to call "abuse" lol that it's hard not to see it as performative. That was the case with the supposed grand conspiracy between cinci and Franz as well. If it's true that they (IK's and mods) were specifically told by admins not to do that on several occasions outside of editing out content which is truly harmful and then did it anyway why should the admins keep that IK around?
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Jul 21, 2023 17:49
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I think it's bizarre that people think having buttons removed is a harsh punishment that needs to be justified in any way
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Jul 21, 2023 17:57
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Fluffdaddy posted:I could edit your posts declaring that you love children without leaving a trace that I did it. How is that okay? So, your example didn't happen and isn't close to what happened. The slippery slope fallacy doesn't go too far with me.
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Jul 21, 2023 18:02
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Starsfan posted:If it's true that they (IK's and mods) were specifically told by admins not to do that on several occasions outside of editing out content which is truly harmful and then did it anyway why should the admins keep that IK around? Smugworth did it and was never told not to do it. I don't think IK powers are well explained to new staff possibly?
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Jul 21, 2023 18:02
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steinrokkan posted:Posts aren't important pieces of public report and editing an inconsequential post is such a pretty thing to get pissy about or to call "abuse" lol that it's hard not to see it as performative. That was the case with the supposed grand conspiracy between cinci and Franz as well. If an IK blanks your post and gives you a probation, there is literally no way for anyone to check what the post said. If an IK blanked your post and gave you a sixer that said "Placeholder. What is wrong with you, don't post racist genocidal rants about African people" we cannot check if that is actually what you posted and you should be permabanned or if they were abusing their power because they don't like you and they are maliciously scheming to get you permabanned or if they misread something and overreacted. That's an extreme hypothetical but it is a power that could be abused so we take it seriously, and removing someone from being an IK is not a very big deal.
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Jul 21, 2023 18:03
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Charles Bukowski posted:So, your example didn't happen and isn't close to what happened. The slippery slope fallacy doesn't go too far with me. It's not a slippery slope fallacy, its just the reason that editing posts is not tolerated is because it can be used for bad purposes and it's not traceable. It would be slippery slope if because we allow something then something else happens. Not we don't allow something because there are bad case scenarios we can't avoid. Edit: To be clear my feedback is IK/Mods/Admins shouldn't edit posts without very good reason like doxxing. I don't want somebody else changing what I wrote. gurragadon fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Jul 21, 2023 |
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Jul 21, 2023 18:05
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The only reason anybody is pushing back against this is because of who it was done to. Nix posted badly, as usual for all the war threads on this site, but there was *nothing* truly objectionable about the post that was blanked and the fact that it was done so makes it look like a lovely gotcha (which is in character for GIR ime elsewhere on the forums) That's a garbage way to moderate even at the IK level and there is no doubt in my mind that if the same had been done to the people in here complaining by some DnD mod or whatever they'd be all about a de-IKing in SAD Quit with the forums wars and just look at poo poo objectively here, this thread was doin good
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Jul 21, 2023 18:16
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steinrokkan posted:Posts aren't important pieces of public report and editing an inconsequential post is such a pretty thing to get pissy about or to call "abuse" lol that it's hard not to see it as performative. That was the case with the supposed grand conspiracy between cinci and Franz as well. someone give me a grey star so I can edit this guy's posts to praise Stalin
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Jul 21, 2023 18:24
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Charles Bukowski posted:Smugworth did it and was never told not to do it. I don't think IK powers are well explained to new staff possibly? when I got my IK star pragmatica PMed me like a week later being like "poo poo did jeff not give you the IK guide, okay, hold on" I think not editing someone else's posts is like, p. obvious though
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Jul 21, 2023 18:26
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Charles Bukowski posted:So, your example didn't happen and isn't close to what happened. The slippery slope fallacy doesn't go too far with me. that's not a slippery slope fallacy at all. just because someone faced consequences for doing something wrong, but what they did wrong could have been worse, doesn't make it a slippery slope fallacy. the reason it's not ok to do that is because there is no way to differentiate between a benign post that was blanked, and a horrible post that was blanked. that's what fluffdaddy is trying to tell you. it cannot be allowed because the person blanking the post could just say it was whatever and there is no way to prove it. that's not slippery slope, it's saying 'this is the clear and present danger that such behavior presents, to everyone, and that is why this cannot be allowed'
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Jul 21, 2023 18:27
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Psycho Landlord posted:The only reason anybody is pushing back against this is because of who it was done to. Nix posted badly, as usual for all the war threads on this site, but there was *nothing* truly objectionable about the post that was blanked and the fact that it was done so makes it look like a lovely gotcha (which is in character for GIR ime elsewhere on the forums) Agreed entirely, even if the intention is good the execution was terrible. (Incidentally the IK or mod who was blanking charles bukowskis posts elsewhere needs looking into, if the allegations are true. A lot of the complaints they are raising seem to be "well it happened to me and I didnt care, so why should you care", and the answer is it shouldn't of happened in the first place and needs rectifying)
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Jul 21, 2023 18:27
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death cob for cutie posted:when I got my IK star pragmatica PMed me like a week later being like "poo poo did jeff not give you the IK guide, okay, hold on" Yeah, Tarquinn was telling me he got a PM from Prag too, so it does look like some people were given guidelines. I was not one of them lol But as I already said, we've told the GBS IKs a few times now what the policy is on post edits AND Commie was apparently a Moderator beforehand, so there's really no excuse for it.
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Jul 21, 2023 18:30
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One nuance I'd like to throw in to the blanking conversation: There were a few points when the bitcoin thread(s) were having to suffer through a flood of posts from a serial re-reg poster. Despite the swift bans that came through, the only thing that seemed to really get them to stop was when mods started blanking their wall-of-text posts. So I think that blanking posts can be an effective moderation action that improves the forums outside of just removing PII/table breaking/illegal content. There's clearly a massive hole in the forum's technical capabilities, though, if there's no way to audit those changes.
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Jul 21, 2023 18:36
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When I was made thread IK a got a PM from Prag with rules/guidelines
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Jul 21, 2023 18:37
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Solefald posted:Yeah, Tarquinn was telling me he got a PM from Prag too, so it does look like some people were given guidelines. I was not one of them lol commiegir wasn't just a mod, they were a maligned d&d mod who somehow got buttons back
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Jul 21, 2023 18:39
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Drone_Fragger posted:Agreed entirely, even if the intention is good the execution was terrible. You're also forgetting their key point of "The only people complaining are 'agitators'" Other people's posts shouldn't be hosed with except for poo poo like doxxing, NWS images, or a post that breaks the forums, and if they ARE edited, then who did it should put why and alter as little as possible. If people disagree, I volunteer to be an IK for a week and I'll edit all their posts and we'll see how it goes.
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Jul 21, 2023 18:40
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Cthulu Carl posted:You're also forgetting their key point of "The only people complaining are 'agitators'" I'm ageeing its bad? Like commiegir shouldn't of blanked it even if it was coming from trying to moderate. Whats Charles not liking some posters got to do with anything. Its an online forum, i would be astonished if everyone liked everyone else.
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Jul 21, 2023 18:50
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Pablo Nergigante posted:When I was made thread IK a got a PM from Prag with rules/guidelines I feel so left out. 
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Jul 21, 2023 18:55
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Drone_Fragger posted:I'm ageeing its bad? Like commiegir shouldn't of blanked it even if it was coming from trying to moderate. Part of Charles's logic was Charles Bukowski posted:My anecdote is that I haven't heard anyone complaining about loving around with posts until relatively recently, and from people I tend to lump together as "agitators." Part of their reasoning isn't just "I didn't care, so you shouldn't" but also "I don't like the people who care, so you shouldn't". You and I both agree post blanking is bad.
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Jul 21, 2023 18:57
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LanceHunter posted:One nuance I'd like to throw in to the blanking conversation: There were a few points when the bitcoin thread(s) were having to suffer through a flood of posts from a serial re-reg poster. Despite the swift bans that came through, the only thing that seemed to really get them to stop was when mods started blanking their wall-of-text posts.
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Jul 21, 2023 19:07
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