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Lord Awkward posted:You could say Girkin is
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Jul 21, 2023 20:47
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The Eyes Have It posted:In The Jungle is Neutral the author had to do a jump near the end of things and felt he landed kind of bad but no real harm done. Later I think after the war he read that the report mentioned him with: "Body appeared to land on head, but got up and waved" I swear to god the violence of my landing was always inverse to how scary coming down was. Soft plowed dirt? My feet stick and I go feet -> head and get dragged. Drift into the middle of a runway? Perfect PLF. Sky shark all the way across the DZ oscillating wildly in high wind while probably well over 350lbs? Oscillation cancels drift perfectly at the moment of impact and I land like a pillow next to the opposite treeline I jumped out over.
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Jul 23, 2023 19:30
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I still haven't told Gravity where I live.
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Jul 23, 2023 20:47
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I wonder how good the VDV is at making airborne landings compared to the US. If we have this many casualties just in training, I can only imagine what the VDV goes through operationally.
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Jul 24, 2023 00:07
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Jimmy Smuts posted:I wonder how good the VDV is at making airborne landings compared to the US. If we have this many casualties just in training, I can only imagine what the VDV goes through operationally. *waves at Odessa and Kyiv*
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Jul 24, 2023 00:24
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Jimmy Smuts posted:I wonder how good the VDV is at making airborne landings compared to the US. If we have this many casualties just in training, I can only imagine what the VDV goes through operationally. Based on what we've seen in the last year and change, I would guess they have far, far fewer casualties during training than the US does.
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Jul 24, 2023 01:07
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Flyinglemur posted:Based on what we've seen in the last year and change, I would guess they have far, far fewer casualties during training than the US does. Because they don’t train adequately?
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Jul 24, 2023 01:24
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Probably because they don't train much at all.
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Jul 24, 2023 01:55
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Jimmy Smuts posted:I wonder how good the VDV is at making airborne landings compared to the US. If we have this many casualties just in training, I can only imagine what the VDV goes through operationally. The US only has about one fatality, a handful of career ending injuries, and a decent chunk (10% of the formation) receiving some type of minor injury per year. We learn from our mistakes an fatalities. After the May 2014 fatality, they implemented rampside checks of the static line, main curve pin, and main curve pin protector flap. After the 2018(?) fatality of the dude with horribly twisted suspension lines seen kicking all the way to the ground, they changed pre-jump to have pull your reserve if you have twists and can't compare your rate of descent. After the 2020 fatality of the FO that choked to death being drug, they emphasized helping your buddy out and smothering their chute if they are being drug. Hell, any injury requiring hospitalization has to the sent up to the Major Command. If the Russians are even doing training jumps, I bet their injury and fatality rate is way higher and underreported up the chain. We heavy drop vehicles before any paratroopers go out. They heavy drop APCs with the crew in them. Anytime a video comes out of an APC burning in, they claim it's uncrewed.
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Jul 24, 2023 02:02
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I'm going to guess the VDV music video is a pretty accurate demonstration of the VDV's training methods.
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Jul 24, 2023 02:02
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Nessus posted:I'm going to guess the VDV music video is a pretty accurate demonstration of the VDV's training methods. ♫ SEAD Guitar Solo ♫
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Jul 24, 2023 03:06
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 The drone situation loving sucks tbh
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Jul 24, 2023 03:16
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Modern war is scary as gently caress.
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Jul 24, 2023 03:22
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BaconAndBullets posted:The US only has about one fatality, a handful of career ending injuries, and a decent chunk (10% of the formation) receiving some type of minor injury per year. We learn from our mistakes an fatalities. After the May 2014 fatality, they implemented rampside checks of the static line, main curve pin, and main curve pin protector flap. After the 2018(?) fatality of the dude with horribly twisted suspension lines seen kicking all the way to the ground, they changed pre-jump to have pull your reserve if you have twists and can't compare your rate of descent. After the 2020 fatality of the FO that choked to death being drug, they emphasized helping your buddy out and smothering their chute if they are being drug. Hell, any injury requiring hospitalization has to the sent up to the Major Command. The Army also has the ACE Board. That's the Airborne Test Board at Ft.Liberty that develops every piece of rigging and procedure for all US military airborne operations. They use T-34s with camera pods to circle the test loads coming down. https://www.atec.army.mil/otc/directorates/ABNSOTDBrief.pdf
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Jul 24, 2023 03:29
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I thought nobody actually parachuted troops anymore. They're still airborne units, but there's beyter ways of getting to the ground when people are shooting at you.
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Jul 24, 2023 03:36
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The Lone Badger posted:I thought nobody actually parachuted troops anymore. They're still airborne units, but there's beyter ways of getting to the ground when people are shooting at you. That's a bit like saying no one actually does amphibious landings any more. Whatever gave you the idea that parachute insertions were no longer a thing?
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Jul 24, 2023 03:48
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Dandywalken posted:
Are those all from Lancets plowing into Bradleys and Leopards?
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Jul 24, 2023 03:56
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Bored As gently caress posted:Probably because they don't train much at all. I have a memory, which probably comes from a WEB Griffin novel, that some army had run the numbers and decided it was safer to skip parachute training as it caused more injuries than it saved, but I assure you I can’t find any real numbers on that now.
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Jul 24, 2023 04:05
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Nuclear Tourist posted:Are those all from Lancets plowing into Bradleys and Leopards? At least some are. Assuming those at a distance probably arent.
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Jul 24, 2023 04:13
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:The Army also has the ACE Board. That's the Airborne Test Board at Ft.Liberty that develops every piece of rigging and procedure for all US military airborne operations. They use T-34s with camera pods to circle the test loads coming down. I had a brief image of ancient soviet tanks with cameras mounted surrounding the LZ before I remembered that T-34 is also a jet trainer. Edit: prop trainer. T38 is the jet. Murgos fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Jul 24, 2023 |
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Jul 24, 2023 04:30
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:The Army also has the ACE Board. That's the Airborne Test Board at Ft.Liberty that develops every piece of rigging and procedure for all US military airborne operations. They use T-34s with camera pods to circle the test loads coming down. Back in spring of 2014, I got to take part in new medium rucksack testing. Natick came out, used a 2nd BCT tasker to get the bodies, and setup three groups. I was in the Natick ruck group, another group got to test the Mayflower, and I think the third group was testing a London Bridge ruck but I'm not sure. We packed it, rucked it a bit, did the 34ft towers at the Advanced Airborne School, then jumped them with a ruck march afterwards. It was super weird lining up to the paratroop door of a C-17 and seeing a T-34 with orange paint flying right next to the plane. I'd jumped out of aircraft flying in formation before, but never anywhere as close as that. The Lone Badger posted:I thought nobody actually parachuted troops anymore. They're still airborne units, but there's beyter ways of getting to the ground when people are shooting at you. It's not that it gets used much, but it's an option. I think the last contested airborne insertion was Haditha Dam by a company of 75th Ranger Regiment during the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Having an airborne capability is extremely useful as you always have the choice to get people and equipment to a location without landing aircraft. With the prevalence of MANPADS and complexity of Integrated Air Defense it becomes extremely difficult. The capability is even useful in peaceful or situations less than conflict as if you have a remote location or limited airfield capacity, you can insert a large amount of people and equipment without using an airfield. Think a humanitarian aid situation where a runway could have received damage, you can get engineers and their airfield repair equipment on the ground to repair the airfield to then allow humanitarian aid to be delivered or civilian specialists to land. Plus in my experience, airborne forces just seem like a cut above. It's not that paratroopers definitely make better soldiers, but the average quality just seems higher. A lot of that comes from having to extensively plan, having to learn a couple levels up because come P-hour you could be the dude, and given a higher leeway to accomplish tasks.
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Jul 24, 2023 05:09
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Dandywalken posted:At least some are. Assuming those at a distance probably arent. I’d like to know what types of kills they ended up getting. Just a mission kill and they got recovered and can be repaired or whatever the NATO equivalent of the turret toss is. Also I’d expect there’s lots of people the world over trying to figure out some sort of hard kill counter measures you could slap on these things. I’be got no data in my brain about how you’d even start. What do tank kill capable drones look like to radar?
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Jul 24, 2023 05:20
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BaconAndBullets posted:Plus in my experience, airborne forces just seem like a cut above. It's not that paratroopers definitely make better soldiers, but the average quality just seems higher. A lot of that comes from having to extensively plan, having to learn a couple levels up because come P-hour you could be the dude, and given a higher leeway to accomplish tasks. Also why the new SFAB's are cooler and more motivated despite only having a 2-day selection. Any kind of barrier of entry that requires some baseline of volunteering and motivation just cuts a lot of chaff right off the bat. It's not that Airborne troops are somehow super special like you mention, but on average they are just a bit better. It's common to have mid-career people who turn Airborne say that it is a palpable difference, even if not a radical one.
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Jul 24, 2023 05:35
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My understanding (which sounds like it could be incorrect) was that the only 'combat' drop in decades had been into an airport already seized by ground forces, conducted solely so people could say they'd conducted/commanded a combat drop. The big problem with parachutes is (again, please correct me) that your force lands in an essentially non-combat-ready form, scattered into singles and pairs of people with nothing above small-arms, and you have to rely on your enemy giving you time to form up.
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Jul 24, 2023 06:11
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Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:I’d like to know what types of kills they ended up getting. Just a mission kill and they got recovered and can be repaired or whatever the NATO equivalent of the turret toss is. I doubt any current loitering munitions can do serious damage to a modern tank. Mobility kill, possibly.
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Jul 24, 2023 06:27
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misread something, nm
Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Jul 24, 2023 |
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Jul 24, 2023 06:29
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Modern tanks are specifically armored against the kind of poo poo a loitering munition would be carrying. It probably would gently caress up a Bradley, maybe even permanently, but even then, you're not as likely to cause many or any fatalities when you hit it. Ukraine lost a pile of Bradleys a few months ago, and out of that they only had 2 fatalities, which speaks a lot to the level of protection modern IFVs and tanks provide, or the atrocious aim of Russian drone pilots. I am unsure if there have been any crew fatalities among the units that are driving stuff like Leopards and Challenger 2s, but considering that and IFV seems to adequately protect crew from a loitering munition, I'm going to go with probably not.
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Jul 24, 2023 07:01
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BaconAndBullets posted:It's not that it gets used much, but it's an option. I think the last contested airborne insertion was Haditha Dam by a company of 75th Ranger Regiment during the invasion of Iraq in 2003.
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Jul 24, 2023 12:37
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Nuclear Tourist posted:Are those all from Lancets plowing into Bradleys and Leopards? Worth noting that most of those, Ukraine ahs been successfully recovering the vehicles for repair. Unlike Russia. Usually because the T series ends up a smoking crater.
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Jul 24, 2023 13:24
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standard.deviant posted:Wikipedia doesn’t say, but do you know if that was static line or MFF? The level of training required for MFF is impractical to scale up, but it seems a lot better from the perspectives of safety, flexibility, and landing the force together for those times where airborne insertion is useful. There were some Prime Power folks that jumped in with them, so I doubt it was military free fall.
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Jul 24, 2023 13:28
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Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:I’d like to know what types of kills they ended up getting. Just a mission kill and they got recovered and can be repaired or whatever the NATO equivalent of the turret toss is. psydude posted:I doubt any current loitering munitions can do serious damage to a modern tank. Mobility kill, possibly. They are carrying HEAT warheads up to RPG-7 and with a good pilot it could do a top-down attack. That should be able to destroy any tank in use. Ukraine Ties RPG Warheads to Quadcopters and Hits Russian Armor
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Jul 24, 2023 13:36
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Saukkis posted:They are carrying HEAT warheads up to RPG-7 and with a good pilot it could do a top-down attack. That should be able to destroy any tank in use. Ukraine is, but Russia is mostly using those little tiny ones that could get a mobility kill for sure, but on a Western tank is far more likely the crew will survive and the tank recovered.
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Jul 24, 2023 13:41
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Saukkis posted:They are carrying HEAT warheads up to RPG-7 and with a good pilot it could do a top-down attack. That should be able to destroy any tank in use. Those drones have way bigger capacity than I'd have thought
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Jul 24, 2023 14:01
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steinrokkan posted:Those drones have way bigger capacity than I'd have thought They are race quads, dunno about the ones pictured which are maybe 7'' props, but the 5'' I fly has 5 kg thrust and 0.5 kg unloaded weight.
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Jul 24, 2023 14:09
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Xakura posted:They are race quads, dunno about the ones pictured which are maybe 7'' props, but the 5'' I fly has 5 kg thrust and 0.5 kg unloaded weight. I read somewhere that Ukraine is burning through 10,000 (mostly consumer) drones per month (it might have been something even more ridiculous like per day or week), and I'm sure Russian losses are comparable. Has the hobbiest drone supply completely dried up? I've gotta imagine that's exerting ridiculous market pressure on the demand side. psydude fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Jul 24, 2023 |
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Jul 24, 2023 14:26
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psydude posted:I read somewhere that Ukraine is burning through 10,000 (mostly consumer) drones per month (it might have been something even more ridiculous like per day or week), and I'm sure Russian losses are comparable. Has the hobbiest drone supply completely dried up? I've gotta imagine that's exerting ridiculous market pressure on the demand side. They are manufacturing quite a lot of them domestically. I wonder what would be the biggest bottleneck, motors or electronics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escadrone posted:Escadrone is a non-profit group organized in Ukraine during 2022 in order to manufacture FPV attack drones, a type of FPV loitering munition. The business goal was to design and build a large quantity of low-cost drones, aiming specifically to be able to carry anti-tank grenades to the target: tanks and other armored vehicles as well as less-armored military vehicles.
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Jul 24, 2023 14:37
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Overall it seems like Chinese quads are still heavily used, which is something that probably should be a concern to US military....
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Jul 24, 2023 14:39
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psydude posted:I read somewhere that Ukraine is burning through 10,000 (mostly consumer) drones per month (it might have been something even more ridiculous like per day or week), and I'm sure Russian losses are comparable. Has the hobbiest drone supply completely dried up? I've gotta imagine that's exerting ridiculous market pressure on the demand side. I'm not the best to answer, I have everything I need and haven't broken anything lately, but looking at my usual dealer, it seems like prices have risen and there's less models available. Specifically any quads like the ones pictured, with a frame that's easier to carry weight with, are limited to a few high end models left. (40-100% more expensive than the one I fly). Of the other types (Cinewhoops, etc) there are plenty left. DJI camera drones appear to be in stock, but I don't really know that market. Saukkis posted:They are manufacturing quite a lot of them domestically. I wonder what would be the biggest bottleneck, motors or electronics. Race quads are kinda like pc-building, you could make your own or buy someone else' assembly skills, but I imagine all your parts are still coming from the same factories. Looking at the pictures of "Escadrone" quads, all of that looks like stock parts, I'm pretty sure I know which motors they use. And the one article on them shows a Team BlackSheep radio, which means they need a TBS receiver for every quad they're suiciding.
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Jul 24, 2023 15:04
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standard.deviant posted:Wikipedia doesn’t say, but do you know if that was static line or MFF? The level of training required for MFF is impractical to scale up, but it seems a lot better from the perspectives of safety, flexibility, and landing the force together for those times where airborne insertion is useful. I was an MFF Jumpmaster, and the level of training is crazy for Military Free Fall; there is also nothing more painful than doing a HAHO and having your leg straps just a little bit in the wrong position. The big use of airborne drops is to put troops where your opponent does not expect troops to be. Rangers train heavily for it for airfield assaults, so you can seize the runways and facilities to set up an airhead. Once they do the initial seizure but before the runways are cleared, the US can drop chunks of the tenant units of Ft. Liberty to back them up and set up an entire headquarters area.
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Jul 24, 2023 15:28
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steinrokkan posted:Those drones have way bigger capacity than I'd have thought Keep in mind that there is a lot of air in that big spacer at the front, too - I have no idea what those warheads weigh, but it's far from a massive lump of metal.
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Jul 24, 2023 15:32
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