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Shame Boy posted:at least i can sue a doctor for malpractice There is some amount of accountability with a person, as opposed to the absolutely no accountability of software
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Jul 24, 2023 04:59
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mediaphage posted:one interesting avenue of research on ai in medicine is some degree of guidance for doctors on treatment plans. not like where you let the ai doctor diagnose you and completely design your path through the healthcare system, but there are a lot of cases where somebody might be suffering multiple morbidities. and many times the “optimal” treatment plan for one condition will not only be contraindicated for another but also change how a third, fourth, or fifth might react. that’s a lot of information to keep straight in the moment this doesnt need AI and portions/foundations of it already exist. the big problem is getting high quality, properly coded data into the system in the first place instead of the doctor just shoving everything into a notes field.
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Jul 24, 2023 05:27
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infernal machines posted:okay, sure, but it must be worse than your average doctor somehow lol
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Jul 24, 2023 05:29
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Improbable Lobster posted:There is some amount of accountability with a person, as opposed to the absolutely no accountability of software every investor, board member, and c-level should get the ibm mantra tattooed on their arms for them to remember and on their foreheads for others to remember
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Jul 24, 2023 05:45
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i think one of my other problems is that llms and such aren’t “we can do it better” they’re “we can do it cheaper”. and if you follow that it has the inevitable conclusion of worse quality. of course these days we just use money to determine who gets worse treatment. but you can squeeze even more people if you can make your ai reduce resource uses.
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Jul 24, 2023 05:49
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Eeyo posted:i think one of my other problems is that llms and such aren’t “we can do it better” they’re “we can do it cheaper”. no, they just can't do it
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Jul 24, 2023 05:50
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"we can fake enough of it for a demo, faster and cheaper than any other prototyping method"
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Jul 24, 2023 06:04
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i haven't really seen a path for chapgpt/llm ai to be both profitable and effective at whatever it's doing
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Jul 24, 2023 06:19
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Improbable Lobster posted:i haven't really seen a path for chapgpt/llm ai to be both profitable and effective at whatever it's doing Firing a bunch of support people for a 1-3 quarter reduction in CoSt CeNteR budget to secure your bonus bag, after which you quit when the company falls apart. there you go.
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Jul 24, 2023 06:22
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Improbable Lobster posted:i haven't really seen a path for chapgpt/llm ai to be both profitable and effective at whatever it's doing especially right now when you're dependent on basically one irreplaceable third party vendor who can rugpull you at any time, and who you are by definition feeding training data and your "secret sauce" prompts to every time you use its apis the security/cost calculus will change a bit when it becomes feasible to self-host everything, but llms are still going to be inherently unreliable pieces of poo poo
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Jul 24, 2023 06:28
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Jonny 290 posted:Firing a bunch of support people for a 1-3 quarter reduction in CoSt CeNteR budget to secure your bonus bag, after which you quit when the company falls apart. there you go. slash and burn departments with the promise of a new buzzword that will solve all the problems
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Jul 24, 2023 06:51
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Improbable Lobster posted:i haven't really seen a path for chapgpt/llm ai to be both profitable and effective at whatever it's doing 'compute will get cheaper over time' is not the worst risk you can take historically speaking but we are still at the point where compute power gains are getting taken up in pursuit of effectiveness.
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Jul 24, 2023 07:04
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NoneMoreNegative posted:
jfc worst thing I've read in a minute. drat
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Jul 24, 2023 07:31
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I wish you could read the whole thing without a signup bug in the way
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Shaggar posted:this doesnt need AI and portions/foundations of it already exist. the big problem is getting high quality, properly coded data into the system in the first place instead of the doctor just shoving everything into a notes field. I helped my uncle one summer work on his fancy enterprise level dispatch software he spent way too much money on for his less than 10 person HVAC company. He had someone a year or so prior to me showing up write out some very detailed steps on how to use it, inputting customer name, address, work done, etc. So instead of following that, they just put everything into the notes field. So I spent 8 hours a day for that summer just doing mindless data entry fixing their stupid database.
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Jul 24, 2023 07:48
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Manzoon posted:I helped my uncle one summer work on his fancy enterprise level dispatch software he spent way too much money on for his less than 10 person HVAC company. posted it before but oldjob spent a fortune on the Salesforce field level border encryption for sensitive fields and the sales guys just put all the sensitive info in the notes section that was unencrypted
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Jul 24, 2023 08:57
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it says notes, i am going to write all my notes there, which is everything i would have otherwise written on a note pad, duh
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Jul 24, 2023 09:05
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Shaggar posted:this doesnt need AI and portions/foundations of it already exist. the big problem is getting high quality, properly coded data into the system in the first place instead of the doctor just shoving everything into a notes field. using ml is fine and good in assisting medical decision making. also it’s literally impossible for doctors to easily make those decisions in a reasonable span of time. “the foundations” ah well that means it doesn’t actually exist. anyway the problem of high quality data is part of it but that’s easier in canada
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Jul 24, 2023 11:35
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Shaggar posted:one of the biggest problems with EHRs is that they're designed to be customized for every provider that uses them which will always create bad outcomes, not just in terms of software quality but also in the poor medical processes they promote. last page but I just saw this. there was a huge privacy kerfuffle when australia implemented an opt out federally managed EHR system that all the care providers were supposed to input into so that health records would follow you etc. I think people were imagining a big sophisticated cross referenceable database but in reality it was a psuedo drop box wth 10dpi scans of your doctors illegible notes from 1994 with a bit of metadata. so of course no one uses it and they are going to relaunch the whole thing and try again.
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Jul 24, 2023 11:40
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:posted it before but oldjob spent a fortune on the Salesforce field level border encryption for sensitive fields and the sales guys just put all the sensitive info in the notes section that was unencrypted lol
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Jul 24, 2023 14:12
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Manzoon posted:I helped my uncle one summer work on his fancy enterprise level dispatch software he spent way too much money on for his less than 10 person HVAC company. guess how 10000 employee provider orgs who spend a billion dollars a year on their EHRs handle the same problem? you'll be amazed!
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Jul 24, 2023 14:41
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theflyingexecutive posted:every investor, board member, and c-level should get the ibm mantra tattooed on their arms for them to remember and on their foreheads for others to remember "you can make lots of money selling systems to Nazis"? help me out bro
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Jul 24, 2023 14:47
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mediaphage posted:using ml is fine and good in assisting medical decision making. also it’s literally impossible for doctors to easily make those decisions in a reasonable span of time. “the foundations” ah well that means it doesn’t actually exist. why would it be easier in canada? also ML for core medical decision making is always going to be sketchy both because of the black box nature and the total non existence of quality training data. its mostly a way to avoid having to document SOP in the first place. Instead of science based rules you write down in detail, you just create a black box trained on the garbage in existing EHRs. Its not totally worthless, but I would never in a million years trust that it doesnt miss loads of problems
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Jul 24, 2023 14:50
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Chris Knight posted:"no one ever got fired for buying IBM"? anything involving mandatory arm tattoos and ibm is going to a bad place
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Jul 24, 2023 15:00
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you’re thinking of ebm
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Jul 24, 2023 15:01
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:posted it before but oldjob spent a fortune on the Salesforce field level border encryption for sensitive fields and the sales guys just put all the sensitive info in the notes section that was unencrypted every time.
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Jul 24, 2023 15:07
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Chris Knight posted:"no one ever got fired for buying IBM"? I’m assuming they mean this: 
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Jul 24, 2023 15:08
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:posted it before but oldjob spent a fortune on the Salesforce field level border encryption for sensitive fields and the sales guys just put all the sensitive info in the notes section that was unencrypted why didn't they encrypt the notes field or would that have cost a second fortune
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Jul 24, 2023 15:12
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Trimson Grondag 3 posted:last page but I just saw this. there was a huge privacy kerfuffle when australia implemented an opt out federally managed EHR system that all the care providers were supposed to input into so that health records would follow you etc. I think people were imagining a big sophisticated cross referenceable database but in reality it was a psuedo drop box wth 10dpi scans of your doctors illegible notes from 1994 with a bit of metadata. so of course no one uses it and they are going to relaunch the whole thing and try again. tbf scanning in the documents and attaching them to the relevant patient and provider is a pretty big first step and if the goal was to have everything in the future be fully coded thats not a bad strategy under cost constraints. It probably sucks to search through the old records, but it sucks less than searching thru the old paper records. The problem is if they keep doing it for new records.
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Jul 24, 2023 15:14
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haveblue posted:why didn't they encrypt the notes field if you encrypt the notes field we wont be able to share the notes with our business critical vendors
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Jul 24, 2023 15:15
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lol just grifting harder now https://www.reuters.com/technology/openais-sam-altman-launches-worldcoin-crypto-project-2023-07-24/ quote:OpenAI's Sam Altman launches Worldcoin crypto project
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Jul 24, 2023 15:17
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I think that was announced a couple years ago but I'm amazed it hasn't already died. I guess they're just pushing it as relating to ai now rather than crytocurrencies or nfts or whatever though?
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Jul 24, 2023 15:18
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orbing operations
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Jul 24, 2023 15:21
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Jul 24, 2023 15:23
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the only salesforce instance I've ever seen where the users didn't just put data wherever they wanted was in wealth management where a privacy fuckup would be career ending
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Jul 24, 2023 15:23
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qirex posted:the only salesforce instance I've ever seen where the users didn't just put data wherever they wanted was in wealth management where a privacy fuckup would be career ending i've seen it even in wealth management, back when i used to have to deal with that
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Jul 24, 2023 15:35
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this was way back two companies ago so idk maybe it got better but i'm gonna guess not. they would also forward us email chains sometimes that included people's entire files including SSN and account numbers and balances which was pretty lol
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Jul 24, 2023 15:35
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ADINSX posted:I’m assuming they mean this: yes this one
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Jul 24, 2023 15:42
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Shame Boy posted:this was way back two companies ago so idk maybe it got better but i'm gonna guess not. this was a different kind of place, like you could be fired for just attempting to search for an important client's name even though you didn't have access to their profile. also the really big deal people didn't have their real names in the system, they had aliases
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Jul 24, 2023 16:03
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Shaggar posted:why would it be easier in canada? larger quantities of high quality centralized medical records thanks to public healthcare. you still have to go through clean up but there’s a lot of very good data and this isn’t about making something make all the decisions for you, it’s more about elevating causes you might miss because your patient has six illnesses. i’m speaking specifically about its use in easing diagnostic burdens in multimorbidity cases.
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Jul 24, 2023 16:40
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lol how’s a new crypto coin going to do anything to tell the difference between humans and non-human content. what’s preventing a human from loaning its id or more likely faking it in the first place also loving lol at giving a private crypto company my goddamned iris scan
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Jul 24, 2023 16:43
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