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lol at discussing the mechanics of the interaction between barbieland and the real world
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Jul 31, 2023 19:57
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dodgeblan posted:lol at discussing the mechanics of the interaction between barbieland and the real world I need realistic metaphysical explanations in my fluffy pink toy movie
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Jul 31, 2023 19:59
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Pirate Jet posted:That's straight-up not true within the text of the film. Gloria repeatedly comments on how all the toys within Barbieland were ones she had growing up. Gloria’s Barbieland is occupied both by toys she’s owned and by toys she’s aware of due to her job and/or pop culture. Generally, it’s Gloria’s overall idea of the Barbie brand. CapnAndy posted:You're expecting too much reality from a "real world" populated by stable portals to Barbieland […] No, not really. Like, when you write that “nobody had the idea for the Mojo Dojo Casa House before Ken did”, you need to first ask who - and even what - Ken is. It’s made clear that Ken is ‘the idea of a Ken doll.’ And, so, whose idea? We can discount any notion of there being some kind of collective hive-mind, because Gloria’s fear of morality is obviously not shared by every Barbie-aware person on Earth. So, Ken is an idea in Gloria’s head. The Mojo Dojo stuff is coming from her, albeit maybe in some kind of fugue state or something. And for that fantasy then to leave her mind and “infect” reality, that implies the two options outlined earlier: either Gloria participated in the creation of a new product line, or she’s having delusions of some kind.
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Jul 31, 2023 20:00
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 Barbie is a 2023 American fantasy comedy film directed by Greta Gerwig, who also wrote it with Noah Baumbach. The thematic storyline serves as a playground, a dollhouse of narrative elements open for interpretation by the audience. Gretta can try to define intention of canon, but as La mort de l'auteur, The death of the author suggests - art work is ultimately in the minds of the audiences interpretations. So Barbie the film serves more as a framework to play with, as we can see in reality with everyone grasping for some sort of context and meaning when ultimately it is us who create the reality of our society and global toy manufacturing narratives.
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Jul 31, 2023 20:19
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Watched this one over the weekend, laughed a lot and was impressed with the choices around gfx like the emanating sparkles, the pink animated dust clouds, etc. Story was fun too. Obviously more than a little bit of The Matrix in there but it's better described as a warped retelling of Paradise Lost - it doesn't map 100% cleanly but things like the "fall" of Barbieland as a result of Ken's newfound knowledge, journeys to and from "the real world," and Barbie's incarnation as a real person all jump out at me. This framing also helps round out the some of the contradictions people are noticing; does the real world dictate what happens in Barbieland or the other way around? Well was the fall pre-written or do humans have full freedom? It's clever that the story's resolution begins by pointing out that womanhood is stereotypically measured by the ability to navigate contradiction. SuperMechagodzilla posted:Gloria’s Barbieland is occupied both by toys she’s owned and by toys she’s aware of due to her job and/or pop culture. Generally, it’s Gloria’s overall idea of the Barbie brand. If this is only Gloria's Barbieland, why is only one Barbie experiencing intrusive thoughts of death? And why would there be a path to and from the Real World? e: And why does Barbie think that taking Gloria to her own conception of Barbieland will cheer her up? I don't really see how the film precludes the possibility of Barbieland as a place that is both magically real yet socially constructed, with some people (Mattel employees) having more power over its construction than others. Jay-V fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Jul 31, 2023 |
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Jul 31, 2023 20:29
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Computer Serf posted:
This post is the equivalent of Bart Simpson's report: "In conclusion, Libya is a land of contrasts."
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Jul 31, 2023 20:49
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Computer Serf posted:
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Jul 31, 2023 20:54
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It's a shame that we'll never see a complete account of the back-and-forth editing process between the writers and Mattel's corporate vetoes, 'cause they still managed to sneak some impressively dark and heavy stuff in there.Panfilo posted:Vaguely related but all the Barbie skits that SNL did were hilarious. Barbie grilling Skipper about the action figures she's hanging out with: I saw the movie at a theater that does events with a beer tasting/variety show sort of thing for a couple hours before the movie--raffle off some merch, show some fun YT videos that may or may not be related to the movie, etc. Turns out SNL has done a *lot* of Barbie sketches over the years, but these two in particular almost definitely wound up being a major source of inspiration for the movie, 'cause they sure set the tone correctly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blcKeLDDzSM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUD3P4MGmb0
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Jul 31, 2023 21:02
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"Did he touch your Made in China?"
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I saw the movie, thought it was really funny and kinda heartwarming as a man who is terminally online the mom's feminism speech landed with a thud I wonder if you weren't someone who has encountered the same speech a thousand times verbatim would it be effective? Does that person exist?
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Jul 31, 2023 21:12
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dodgeblan posted:I saw the movie, thought it was really funny and kinda heartwarming Someone cheered in my cinema.
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Jul 31, 2023 21:17
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dodgeblan posted:I saw the movie, thought it was really funny and kinda heartwarming I think those people do exist
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Jul 31, 2023 21:29
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dodgeblan posted:I wonder if you weren't someone who has encountered the same speech a thousand times verbatim would it be effective? Does that person exist? I'm not exaggerating when I say that I've said "have you seen the new Barbie movie" to three different people IRL so far, and all of them, unprompted, almost immediately brought up the monologue and how much they loved it. It might not be particularly groundbreaking (like the rest of the movie) but it's ultimately the philosophical cathartic climax of the movie, so that does make sense to me.
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Jul 31, 2023 21:33
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Yeah I’ve seen a lot of people mistaking the movie for being “for extremely online people” when I’d say all the normal rear end people I know who watched it who just sort of work and go about their days were literally moved to tears by the monologue, and all of us who’ve been posting non stop for twenty years were like “lol mansplaining joke. yeah I remember 2012”
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Jul 31, 2023 21:49
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my other commentary is i think margot robbie isn't very funny. President Barbie funny as hell, also love journalist barbie. The speech in the award ceremony for barbie was probably the biggest laugh for me. White ken is funny as hell, but asian ken also rocked my socks. Stereotypical barbie was unfortunately the least funny barbie in barbieland
dodgeblan fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jul 31, 2023 |
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Jul 31, 2023 22:11
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dodgeblan posted:I saw the movie, thought it was really funny and kinda heartwarming A bunch of people cheered when I saw it the second time. I don’t remember anyone doing it the first time though
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Jul 31, 2023 22:22
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Gloria's speech isn't good cause it's fresh, it's good because it's in a mainstream $1 billion blockbuster
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Jul 31, 2023 22:30
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Jay-V posted:If this is only Gloria's Barbieland, why is only one Barbie experiencing intrusive thoughts of death? Unlike most of the other idea-dolls in Barbieland, Gloria’s idea of S-Barbie is based on her personal doll that she actually owned and played with over the years. This is also why S-Barbie is the protagonist of the film. “And why would there be a path to and from the Real World?” Plenty of films have secret paths and tunnels to fantasy worlds - Narnia, OZ, Aquaman, whatever. What’s relatively unique about Barbie Movie is that Gloria brings her daughter along, into the fantasy. So it’s actually not wrong to say that the movie is about mother and teen daughter reconnecting and working through their issues via some kind of role-play. Rarity posted:Gloria's speech isn't good cause it's fresh, it's good because it's in a mainstream $1 billion blockbuster In Rogue One, the protagonist kills so many space-Nazis.
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Jul 31, 2023 22:34
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:In Rogue One, the protagonist kills so many space-Nazis.
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Jul 31, 2023 23:03
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Loved the speech in Rogue One where they went "I kill Imperials because they are space nazis, and nazis are a real problem in the real world where they too should be exterminated, but the system protects them for profit reasons". Bit simplistic but heartwarming
Simply Simon fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jul 31, 2023 |
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Jul 31, 2023 23:06
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Apparently unless I’m mistaken it seems Gosling sang “I’m just Ken” by himself which is mondo cool. Voting Gosling vs Cillian Murphy for best actor
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Jul 31, 2023 23:46
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Gatts posted:Apparently unless I’m mistaken it seems Gosling sang “I’m just Ken” by himself which is mondo cool. Gosling will be in Supporting - vote for both !!!
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Aug 1, 2023 00:20
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Simply Simon posted:Loved the speech in Rogue One where they went "I kill Imperials because they are space nazis, and nazis are a real problem in the real world where they too should be exterminated, but the system protects them for profit reasons". Bit simplistic but heartwarming The characters in Rogue One are killing Nazis fr. Like, they’re not pretending. Y’all ever seen the Hunger Games movies?
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Aug 1, 2023 00:58
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dodgeblan posted:my other commentary is i think margot robbie isn't very funny. President Barbie funny as hell, also love journalist barbie. The speech in the award ceremony for barbie was probably the biggest laugh for me. White ken is funny as hell, but asian ken also rocked my socks. Stereotypical barbie was unfortunately the least funny barbie in barbieland That's just the cross to bear for the straight (wo)man. Hard to stand out when you're next to Kate McKinnon and Ryan Gosling chewing on the scenery for every single second they're onscreen, although I do think Margot Robbie's physical comedy was underrated.
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Aug 1, 2023 03:10
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The roger rabbit / matrix whackiness of the "real world" in this movie and the implication that it's all a representation of Gloria's understanding of life as a functionary of Mattel is the only way I can make sense of this disjointed mess of a film, and I'm fully onboard for that reading in the context of the whole thing being a carefully controlled corporate product. I keep thinking about the way filmmakers in the eastern bloc would include oblique critiques of the state under layers and layers of soviet-approved propoganda stories because there's only so much time in a censor's day and if you can't immediately point to what it is that's subversive than how can you effectively censor something. The love/hate (but ultimately love) relationship with Mattel and the inversion of the patriarchy at the end make so much more sense - to me - through that lens of an actual woman that's pissed off with the world but trying to succeed in a corporate structure that also created of an important object in her understanding of womanhood. Also a woman who doesn't seem to like her husband much? (He was pretty fleetingly involved in the film, but I (possibly mis)remember Gloria's husband being presented as comically inept)? I feel like that's a relatable and not necessarily likeable character, which seems like a very three dimensional protagonist for a film that's otherwise trapped in some borderline cringey corporate-approved girlboss messaging/marketing, and also a pretty rad gently caress-you to the company that bankrolled the movie. prukinski fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 03:25
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dodgeblan posted:I wonder if you weren't someone who has encountered the same speech a thousand times verbatim would it be effective? Does that person exist? I thought Gloria's husband was adorable. Solemnly practicing Spanish on Duolingo, and being overjoyed when he got one question right, was sweet. He has a Hispanic wife and daughter, he's trying, and he's not very good at it. Note that the daughter didn't say "You're a jerk, dad", she said "Appropriation", meaning "I get that you're trying, but not that phrase." Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 03:30
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I like that Just Ken is basically Ken almost getting it but not quite finishing the thought. He thinks that he means that he's only Ken and therefore incomplete as a glorified accessory, but he doesn't finish the thought because he doesn't know how. "I'm just Ken, and that's fine. I'm not '...and Ken'. I'm Ken. Just Ken, on my own, and I need to figure out what that means to me." Also it's the first time he properly dissociates from the Beach part of his name - he's not Beach Ken who can only do Beach, he's Just Ken.
BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 04:57
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prukinski posted:Also a woman who doesn't seem to like her husband much? (He was pretty fleetingly involved in the film, but I (possibly mis)remember Gloria's husband being presented as comically inept)?
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Aug 1, 2023 06:04
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The characters in Rogue One are killing Nazis fr. Like, they’re not pretending.
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Aug 1, 2023 07:28
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The characters in Rogue One are killing Nazis fr. Like, they’re not pretending. So, wait, what are you arguing exactly? A character in a 2016 fires a laser beam at some heavily abstracted cartoon space nazis in a fantasy setting / therefore it isn’t interesting or worthwhile if a speech in a 2023 blockbuster resonates because it speaks directly to the daily lives experience and frustrations of women in the US and beyond?
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Aug 1, 2023 09:19
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CapnAndy posted:Comically inept, but both Gloria and Sasha seem to love him very much. He's a goofball, she wears the pants in the relationship, but goddamit he's trying and that works for all three of them. He's basically there as a counterpoint to Ken and toxic masculinity in general, because I think he might be literally the only happy man who appears in the entire movie. (Maybe "no, we're doing patriarchy really well, we just gotta be quieter about it" guy, but he does seem bummed about the quieter part. Or Mermaid Ken, he seemed pretty chill.) Huh. I thought that we don’t see any of the characters in the film objectively, we only see Gloria’s interpretations of them and there was a point to the two glimpses of her husband focussing on his ineptitude But idk, my memory of his two extremely brief appearances is doing a fair bit of lifting here.
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Aug 1, 2023 09:50
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I though of him as dumb-but-means-well, but then my Latina friend talked about how her husband and her dad both learned Spanish to bond with their wives/kids and that it meant a lot to her to see them represented on screen so I have a brighter view of him now
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Aug 1, 2023 10:08
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Yeah I definitely took it as affectionate ribbing at the expense of the husband character, rather than sharp criticism
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Aug 1, 2023 10:26
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Steve Yun posted:I though of him as dumb-but-means-well, but then my Latina friend talked about how her husband and her dad both learned Spanish to bond with their wives/kids and that it meant a lot to her to see them represented on screen so I have a brighter view of him now Yeah, I thought that was sweet. He has so little screen time, it's difficult to call him comically inept, or indeed anything. He messes up a language he's learning a little at the end? My goodness, what a BUFFOON!
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Aug 1, 2023 13:52
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Lobster Henry posted:So, wait, what are you arguing exactly? A character in a 2016 fires a laser beam at some heavily abstracted cartoon space nazis in a fantasy setting / therefore it isn’t interesting or worthwhile if a speech in a 2023 blockbuster resonates because it speaks directly to the daily lives experience and frustrations of women in the US and beyond? It's pointing out the weirdness of the claims. First it's claimed that it's shocking or unusual for blockbuster movies to have progressive messaging, or even just to "speak to women". When it's pointed out that it's not unusual, and that some blockbusters are even more progressive, counterexamples are dismissed as, like, "a heavily abstracted cartoon" - as if The Barbie Movie is not? Star Wars isn't very abstract at all. It's just a science fiction movie where, in the case of Rogue One, the lead character is an insurgent fighting an imperial power that's extracting resources from a holy land. Likewise, Hunger Games is this kind of female Joker story where a famous woman struggling with mental illness (PTSD in her case) unwittingly becomes the figurehead of a revolution. This is not to say that The Barbie Movie is badly-made or anything, but it's ideologically sus - and the way to redeem it is to look at it as a character study of Gloria (who, in the meta-advertisement aspect of the plot, is presented as Mattel's ideal customer). As a film about Gloria's politics, Barbie Movie's fun and really illustrative.
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Aug 1, 2023 16:01
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im not v smart but it seems p absurd on its face to suggest that all movies exist on a "woke v. chud" spectrum and that depicting the death of a fantastical nazi (a charitable characterization, given that any resemblance Rogue One's Empire has with the nazis is almost purely aesthetic) gives you more woke points than having a character vocalize her grievances with real-world patriarchal systems
QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 18:14
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It's not unusual for blockbusters to have "progressive" (whatever that means) views, but for a blockbuster to have in-your-face feminism? I don't remember the last time that happened. You may be able to cite a speech here, a speech there, but when was a blockbuster completely focused on the patriarchy and what it means and oh, yeah, good gags?
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Aug 1, 2023 18:18
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Arsenic Lupin posted:It's not unusual for blockbusters to have "progressive" (whatever that means) views, but for a blockbuster to have in-your-face feminism? I don't remember the last time that happened. You may be able to cite a speech here, a speech there, but when was a blockbuster completely focused on the patriarchy and what it means and oh, yeah, good gags? Sucker Punch?
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Aug 1, 2023 18:29
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She said "blockbuster"
thunderspanks fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 18:34
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Most people probably don't even remember sucker punch exists until they're reminded of it
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Aug 1, 2023 18:34
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i remember sucker punch more for being extremely horny and garish more than any other qualities.
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Aug 1, 2023 18:38
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