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Pirate Jet posted:These are some of the most gender-essentialist posts I’ve ever read all in service of a supposedly feminist film. I mean I remember it coming out, but I think you're overstating its significance a bit - it came 20th in the domestic box office in 2017, wedged between Cars 3 and Kong: Skull Island. It was successful and I'm sure it was a good film, but I wouldn't exactly call it "huge." Of course this entire discussion is dumb as hell anyway, since like I said earlier Barbie and Hidden Figures are very different films and using HF to try and undercut how Barbie resonated with many viewers is just terrible posting.
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Aug 2, 2023 09:08
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Pirate Jet posted:These are some of the most gender-essentialist posts I’ve ever read all in service of a supposedly feminist film. If you want another "self-own", here's a fun one: when I first saw Starship Troopers it was on German TV in, dunno, 2005. I saw the intro and immediately hated the movie because I thought it was typical jingoistic American propaganda, because post-9/11, you saw the US go crazy from overseas and just assumed that was what they were about. "At least the action is cool". I didn't find out when the movie actually came out or thought "maybe it's meant to be over the top propaganda...for a reason..." until I started posting here.
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Aug 2, 2023 09:36
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quote:To be fair to everyone who whiffed on Starship Troopers -- while, yes, Neil Patrick Harris back when he was only known for being Doogie Howser showing up in a literal SS uniform should have been the tipoff if nothing else got them there, that movie is almost frighteningly ahead of its time. It's a razor-sharp parody of the War on Terror that came out, somehow, in 1997. I keep keep saying this. People give Starship Troopers a lot of credit because of Verhoeven but he was only one member of the creative team and there were other people who were involved much longer than he was. Fangz fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Aug 2, 2023 |
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Aug 2, 2023 10:09
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Fangz posted:Did you see the interview from the screenwriter who said that actually he went with that uniform because "everything German is cooler"? "I stopped after two chapters because it was so boring. It is really quite a bad book. I asked Ed Neumeier to tell me the story because I just couldn't read the thing. It's a very right-wing book. And with the movie we tried, and I think at least partially succeeded, in commenting on that at the same time. It would be eat your cake and have it. All the way through we were fighting with the fascism, the ultra-militarism. All the way through I wanted the audience to be asking, 'Are these people crazy?'" -Paul Verhoeven on Starship Troopers https://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/paul-verhoeven/
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Aug 2, 2023 10:55
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Oh my god can we talk less about putting Barbie in a tier list of important feminist films and more about how more modern films need choreographed dance sequences? That's what I think the takeaway should be from Barbie. Give me at least two solid dance scenes per movie or I'm walking out.
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Aug 2, 2023 11:07
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSR7zmeOpnY
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Aug 2, 2023 11:11
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Bogus Adventure posted:"I stopped after two chapters because it was so boring. It is really quite a bad book. I asked Ed Neumeier to tell me the story because I just couldn't read the thing. It's a very right-wing book. And with the movie we tried, and I think at least partially succeeded, in commenting on that at the same time. It would be eat your cake and have it. All the way through we were fighting with the fascism, the ultra-militarism. All the way through I wanted the audience to be asking, 'Are these people crazy?'" Yes, Neumeier is the one I'm talking about. Neumeier loves the book. quote:I think to a great extent the trick of writing a Starship Troopers movie, to those who may remake it, is you have to like military culture. You have to be interested in military culture, and whether they’re doing things that you agree with or not, you still have to be interested in their world and how they see things. It’s a very positive hopeful world in some ways from inside the military. If they get it right and everybody was behaving correctly, the world would work very well. All the people I’ve ever met in the military are very sincere about that so I think that in some ways that that’s what I’ve tried to put into Heinlein’s world. quote:”The reason for all the German uniforms and everything is because the Germans made the best-looking stuff,” says Troopers screenwriter Edward Neumeier. ”Art directors love it.” quote:Scriptwriter Ed Neumeier even described the original idea for the film as being “a big, silly, jingoistic, xenophobic, let’s-go-out-and-kill-the-enemy movie, and I had settled on the idea that it should be against insects… I wanted to make a war movie, but I also wanted to make a teenage romance movie.” quote:Neumeier described their film’s approach as: “You want a world that works? Okay, we’ll show you one. And it really does work. It happens to be a military dictatorship, but it works.” Etc. There's a wide gaping gulf between Verhoeven's view of the project and his scriptwriter's view. See also all the sequels which only involved Neumeier. Fangz fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Aug 2, 2023 |
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Aug 2, 2023 11:37
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Metis of the Hallway posted:Oh my god can we talk less about putting Barbie in a tier list of important feminist films and more about how more modern films need choreographed dance sequences? That's what I think the takeaway should be from Barbie. Give me at least two solid dance scenes per movie or I'm walking out. Oppenheimer would have been better if Cillian Murphy dropped into a lindyhop
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Aug 2, 2023 11:52
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This reminds me: the best scene in the movie was the girl messing up her Barbie to a Spice Girls song. It resonated with me because all my Barbies were hand-me-downs from my sister, who had transformed her generic Barbies into the five members of the Spice Girls through extensive paintjobs and haircuts. The video itself is briefly incredibly exciting when Barbie nearly takes out a GoPro with her death throes
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Aug 2, 2023 12:08
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I enjoyed it and am pretty sure only the most terminally online people will get their panties in a bunch of something. The best joke is the sudden voice over when Barbie is crying and saying no matter what she does she is ugly “Note to film makers, Margot Robbie is the wrong person to hire if you want to make this point”.
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Aug 2, 2023 12:39
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This thread would benefit from everyone acknowledging the glaringly obvious fact that there are multiple traditions within feminism, many of which are mutually exclusive As for the Barbie movie, most people seem to agree it was about as good as it could be given the obvious constraints. Gerwig has already noted she had to fight for the scene of Barbie meeting the elderly lady, which gives you an idea of where the studio's head was at
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Aug 2, 2023 13:39
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Extra row of tits posted:I enjoyed it and am pretty sure only the most terminally online people will get their panties in a bunch of something. The biggest laughs in the theatre I was in were for Depressed Barbie. There is inevitably going to be at least one terrible sequel, right? I feel there shouldn’t be, but the logic of capitalism and milking IP demands it. I hope Gerwig, Robbie, and Gosling all opt out.
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Aug 2, 2023 14:03
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/02/barbie-movie-flops-south-korea-feminism I think this is an interesting viewpoint in terms of how the feminism of Barbie is received versus other movies. Whether it's simply marketing or not, some people perceive it much differently than other movies. For comparison, Fury Road made 26m there, barely below the UK for the #1 market outside the US.
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Aug 2, 2023 14:23
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They should get Amy Schumer back in for the sequel. Also  Google search engine.https://i.imgur.com/Kmqs6uc.mp4
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Aug 2, 2023 14:30
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Combed Thunderclap posted:I don’t think anyone in this thread was ever trying to rank feminist films or say one was more feminist than the other. All those mentioned are undeniably important parts of feminist film canon.  Extra row of tits posted:The best joke is the sudden voice over when Barbie is crying and saying no matter what she does she is ugly “Note to film makers, Margot Robbie is the wrong person to hire if you want to make this point”. trevorreznik posted:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/02/barbie-movie-flops-south-korea-feminism Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Aug 2, 2023 |
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Aug 2, 2023 18:06
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Halisnacks posted:The biggest laughs in the theatre I was in were for Depressed Barbie. I think the biggest laugh in our showing was when they bleeped out "Motherfucker" with a little Mattel logo. I laughed really hard at that one, although less at the logo than at the absurdity of having a Barbie shout "motherfucker" in a pg-13 film to begin with
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Aug 2, 2023 18:34
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Polo-Rican posted:I think the biggest laugh in our showing was when they bleeped out "Motherfucker" with a little Mattel logo. I laughed really hard at that one, although less at the logo than at the absurdity of having a Barbie shout "motherfucker" in a pg-13 film to begin with It's one of the few times it's done in a novel way because it's also a joke about Mattel attempting to cut all the sharp edges off the movie (by which I mean in most other family movies a character swearing when they shouldn't be is the entire joke, the only movies that I've seen that did something clever with it was this movie, because there was a cute meta reason for it; and the Croods: A New Age because it was built up to over the course of the movie).
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Aug 2, 2023 19:13
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Fangz posted:Yes, Neumeier is the one I'm talking about. Neumeier loves the book. Right, but I'm talking about the Verhoeven-directed Starship Troopers and not the sequels that kept Neumeier on, and Paul is very vocal about how he wanted to portray the material. Who has more influence on the ultimate portrayal of a movie-the screenwriter or the director? I'd say the director, since they determine the inflection of line delivery and the cuts of the film.
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Aug 2, 2023 19:57
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notenome posted:As for the Barbie movie, most people seem to agree it was about as good as it could be given the obvious constraints. Gerwig has already noted she had to fight for the scene of Barbie meeting the elderly lady, which gives you an idea of where the studio's head was at I felt the same way, for different reasons, about A Knight's Tale. I took a lot of chivalric romance/Chaucer/general medieval stuff in college, and my kids dragged me to this. I was seething, based on the commercials, because of just how bad this looked and in particular just how awful the costumes looked and in general I was up my own heraldry-bedecked butt. Then I sat down, the people at the tournament burst into "We will rock you", and I went "ohhhhh... this has entirely different plans than I thought going in."
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Aug 2, 2023 19:59
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I actually get where SMG is coming from, you can't really say this movie has important things to say about feminism but also don't scrutinize the logic because it's a pink movie about toys, it either is an important movie with a real message or it's a zany comedy with Family Guy cutaway logic so don't think too hard about it, because trying to reconcile all of that into a cohesive whole it has to be about Gloria having an extended fantasy because her life as a Mattel office drone is unsatisfying. Which to me means its a pretty funny comedy that doesn't have a really consistent theme or ethos, but a lot of comedies don't? Characters give relatable speeches about feminism or mansplaining, but you're not really supposed to do anything with that information, in the same way you're not really supposed to do anything with the information that Ricky Bobby likes the infant version of Jesus the best in Talledega Nights other than chuckle at the absurdity. Its just in service of a funny gag. So like, why is the wacky Mattel executive trying to stop the Ken takeover when all he cares about is profit in every other scene? Because we want Will Ferrell to keep showing up to be funny in the later scenes. And that's fine, he was funny, he had some great jokes! The fact that the movie is fun and adorable and funny and has big pink dance numbers and doesn't really take a hardline stance about anything other than "being a woman sure is frustrating but also can be good sometimes" feels like part of its success, honestly. No one is giving a billion dollars to a movie where Barbie argues about how Condoleezza being a success of third wave feminism is an example of capital subsuming any critique back into itself 
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Aug 2, 2023 20:54
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also sucker punch loving sucks, it can have all the correct messages it wants that movie has the most boring video game cutscenes i've ever seen and i don't care if it's the point! that poo poo was insanely dull! and can i just say actually reading one of SMG's overly long and deliberately obtuse takedowns but actually agreeing with it made me feel like this for the first time: 
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Aug 2, 2023 21:01
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Metis of the Hallway posted:Oh my god can we talk less about putting Barbie in a tier list of important feminist films and more about how more modern films need choreographed dance sequences? That's what I think the takeaway should be from Barbie. Give me at least two solid dance scenes per movie or I'm walking out. (If you missed it, it's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0nNTklOKRA)
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Aug 2, 2023 21:08
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My take is that the movie is good enough that we can like it without trying to justify its quality by virtue of its political importance. Imo the Speech felt very Prime Time TV feminism and that was further solidified by it being delivered by the star of Ugly Betty, but I don’t think that discounts the film at all (and I don’t mean that as an insult to anyone that enjoyed it). To me, given the character’s class position, it’s fitting that she would earnestly fantasize that that Speech would carry the importance it does in Barbieland. It’s the ultimate triumph of the therapeutic, which is extremely fitting because it reflects our current political predicament irl. I feel helpless but maybe if I craft the perfect post, and enough people see it, it could raise consciousness and influence The Conversation. It’s called Doing the Work. But I think it’s interesting that, in the film, that has no effect on the real world they eventually return to. They were able to stop the dominance of Kendom over Barbieland, but that’s it. Which is fine, because in the most optimistic sense it at least brought a mother and daughter closer, and I imagine that effect rippled into the theater audiences. But symbolically I don’t think it goes much farther than reconciling Nancy Pelosi (the mom) with AOC (the seemingly more radical daughter). With Barbie becoming human though, I wonder if the family showed her how to maneuver the HealthCare Marketplace before her appointment or if they were so excited they forgot that she needs a way to pay for her gynecologist visit. Anyways, great movie. Lil Mama Im Sorry fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Aug 3, 2023 |
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Aug 2, 2023 21:45
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:But I think it’s interesting that, in the film, that has no effect on the real world they eventually return to. They were able to stop the dominance of Kendom over Barbieland, but that’s it. Which is fine, because in the most optimistic sense it at least brought a mother and daughter closer, and I imagine that effect rippled into the theater audiences. But symbolically I don’t think it goes much farther than reconciling Nancy Pelosi (the mom) with AOC (the more radical daughter).
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Aug 2, 2023 22:00
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:Anyways, great movie. Oh yeah, to be clear I loved it and think its great it became a worldwide sensation and people like Ben Shapiro have to pretend it's the downfall of civilization, that's all good stuff. I just think the discourse around it doesn't really mesh because like, of course trying to analyze Allen's place in society doesn't really work because Allen is just a vehicle for jokes. It's just a really solid comedy with amazing aesthetics. My wife also liked it, was slightly disappointed that all the funniest characters were men, and called it her least favorite Gerwig movie (which is still pretty high praise lol)
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Aug 2, 2023 22:13
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Wolfsheim posted:
I think that might just be because the men were playing naive buffoons a lot of the time, like Will Ferrell being really earnest about wanting to keep Barbie's brand pure because he genuinely wants to inspire little girls and just being blind to his own privelege and lack of female colleagues. Those kinds of roles just got most of the jokes because the women had to drive the plot forward.
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Aug 2, 2023 22:20
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Wolfsheim posted:My wife also liked it, was slightly disappointed that all the funniest characters were men, and called it her least favorite Gerwig movie (which is still pretty high praise lol) They were the funniest because they were all fucken idiots, to make one of the women funnier would have required them to become one of those annoying always wins characters. The kens could only win because they were just to stupid to lose. Rhea Pearlman was great in this film, I really liked how it was just completely accepted she was a ghost that keeps an office in their building.
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Aug 2, 2023 23:29
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So is the movie woke or anti woke I've lost track https://twitter.com/theserfstv/status/1686836974228029440?t=60CsmOs8P3vF3v1M2rJngA&s=19
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Aug 2, 2023 23:54
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Panfilo posted:So is the movie woke or anti woke I've lost track It occupies a superposition state in that it's woke for all the things chuds hate about it, but anti-woke for all the things they love about it.
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Aug 2, 2023 23:56
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Panfilo posted:So is the movie woke or anti woke I've lost track Haha I never notice his name is actually "And Ken" not just Ken.
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Aug 3, 2023 00:23
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Hollismason posted:Haha I never notice his name is actually "And Ken" not just Ken. Oh, I missed that, too. Poor dude.
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Aug 3, 2023 01:29
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Hey umm When did you see Barbie, and when you saw Barbie did Issa Rae say “motherfucker” uncensored, or was she bleeped out I saw Barbie a second time and she was bleeped, and there was a Mattel logo over Issa Rae’s mouth. I could swear she was uncensored on opening week but I wonder if I’m remembering wrong
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Aug 3, 2023 02:33
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You’re definitely remembering it wrong
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Aug 3, 2023 02:36
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Saw it Thursday night. Mattel logo and bleeped mother fucker
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Aug 3, 2023 03:30
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I don't remember if there was a Mattel logo, but it was bleeped when I saw it the second day.
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Aug 3, 2023 07:13
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Perhaps, just like Cats 2019 has a "Butthole Cut," Barbie has a "Motherfucker Cut"
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Aug 3, 2023 07:42
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Steve Yun posted:Hey umm It's PG-13, friend, not R. Bogus Adventure posted:Perhaps, just like Cats 2019 has a "Butthole Cut," Barbie has a "Motherfucker Cut" they just deadass scalp the kens and the yellowjackets theme plays E: I see you reading this, little brother. Fluffy Bunnies fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Aug 3, 2023 |
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Aug 3, 2023 14:14
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PG13 movies are allowed one gently caress, but I assume Mattel didn't. Here's a tweet from someone who saw the test screening and then the theatrical release and says it was unbleeped the first time around: https://twitter.com/MeganBitchell/status/1685808036755935232?t=ge9OWDC2kfRQXuMzcpHkaQ&s=19
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Aug 3, 2023 16:33
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Isn't the PG-13 one gently caress just an Urban Legend and it depends entirely on context? Like how you can you say poo poo! On TV but referring to someone taking a poo poo can still get you fined. Edit: Actually if Motherfucker made it through with PG-13, it might actually put truth to that. The belief is that gently caress is allowed as an exclamation but anything linking it to sex makes it worse. Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Aug 3, 2023 |
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Aug 3, 2023 16:37
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keep your fucks away from my loving sex
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Aug 3, 2023 17:23
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