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DreddyMatt posted:What do you think the state does to parents that refuse to educate their children? Perhaps we could find some way to allow kids who move around a lot to get an education? Perhaps we could also look at society and think about whether academic qualifications are really so necessary for people to be allowed to subsist?
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Aug 3, 2023 11:30
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OwlFancier posted:If we're planning on giving out free houses I would think we could manage to give out some free caravans too if people want those instead, is there a reason why we shouldn't offer the latter? constant movement for any developing kid is a bad thing. these kids suffer and the wheel keeps turning.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:30
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Crystal Thenis posted:no, what do you think should be done with them? Nothing, they should be able to live their lives. You don’t agree, so I’ll ask again, what should be done with them?
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Aug 3, 2023 11:30
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DreddyMatt posted:What do you think the state does to parents that refuse to educate their children? The problem isn't that they don't want to send their kids to school, it's that the schools don't want them because they see them as subhuman, and even if those kids do get in, other parents complain, their kids then malign those kids, and it ends up as a negative experience. It turns out that our country being exceptionally racist about GRT communities means that when they do try and positively engage with society they get burned, badly.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:32
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Crystal Thenis posted:constant movement for any developing kid is a bad thing. these kids suffer and the wheel keeps turning. Is it? If they have a family and community that care about them I don't see that as being a problem whether that's in one place or if that community moves around. It presents difficulties with this "assimilation" thing you're so keen on but I again think that's a problem with the dominant society, not the people it excludes.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:32
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Tesseraction posted:I mean I tried looking it up but Google just keeps giving me results about enrolling my children in schools if I am a traveller, so hey that's progress I guess. no, you are a better poster that this.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:33
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big society means everybody
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Aug 3, 2023 11:33
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OwlFancier posted:Perhaps we could find some way to allow kids who move around a lot to get an education? Perhaps we could also look at society and think about whether academic qualifications are really so necessary for people to be allowed to subsist? Well yeah. Let's do that. If you've got ideas for change, then I'm all ears.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:33
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You'll find that a kid's health is directly tied to sleeping in the same longitude and latitude every night constantly, otherwise you get prions.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:34
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DreddyMatt posted:Well yeah. Let's do that. There are things that can be done, but in this political climate? The only solutions being considered are final.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:34
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The word we're looking for here is "integration". As in, you get to live your life broadly as you see fit but we make sure people can work and pay taxes and also have access to the same services and benefits. Not "assimilation". That just sounds weird and sinister honestly.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:37
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Seems kinda hosed up that a bunch of people in this thread want to force a culture they have very little knowledge or experience of besides being pissbabys about bad experiences to sit down, shut up and choke on the butchers apron because that's what civilised people do. Racist wankers
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Aug 3, 2023 11:37
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I fully back what Labour is trying with permanent settlements and lots of carrots. the status-quo here is to do nothing, keep treating them like rubbish and never give them help or aid to join in with the rest of society. when you want to take away that idea of support you are activity harming the community. how can you live through brexit and not understand this lol?
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Aug 3, 2023 11:38
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For a start I would suggest that the last couple of years have given us a model from which we could probably develop a remote learning service that could be available to anyone who wants it. Doesn't handle the socialization aspect but kids can get that elsewhere if there's no plague going about. Plus while I think everyone should be able to read, write, do basic maths and be taught a framework for how to find out things if you want to know them, research skills, critical thinking etc, because those are emancipatory skills, they let you learn, communicate, and understand a lot of things later in life, I don't think higher learning is something that needs to be pushed on everyone immediately out of school, or that we should really be grading children at all tbh because it just seems to be a lovely form of gatekeeping where some kids with an ideal upbringing and aptitude get segregated out into privilege (which they probably already came from to get that upbringing) and everyone else gets left to crab bucket their way through what's left. Universities and colleges should be free for anyone at any time, and should let anyone in who wants to learn. That should be funded by cutting rich people in half at the torso until the money falls out. Abolish school grading. If you must give people a "I finished basic education" certificate or something, but institutions should not have access to any ready means of quantifying people who want to join them, that includes jobs and academia. You can have specialized certifications, of course. Indications that you know how to do a specific thing for a specific job, but most jobs I do not think should require qualifications. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Aug 3, 2023 |
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Aug 3, 2023 11:41
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Aug 3, 2023 11:41
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Tesseraction posted:There are things that can be done, but in this political climate? The only solutions being considered are final. I was replying to tesseractino to tell him he can post better, but I hope ur (not abusing) ur mod powers to call me a loving racist. I am many things, i am not a loving racist. gently caress it disco witch, label me how you want. I will keep telling you my loving lived experience.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:43
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Crystal Thenis posted:constant movement for any developing kid is a bad thing. these kids suffer and the wheel keeps turning. Middle class family flips a house every few months to climb the property ladder and the kids get pulled behind them from school to school. But ah ... I bet that's different
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Aug 3, 2023 11:43
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:The word we're looking for here is "integration". As in, you get to live your life broadly as you see fit but we make sure people can work and pay taxes and also have access to the same services and benefits. assimilation noun [ U ] UK /əˌsɪm.ɪˈleɪ.ʃən/ US /əˌsɪm.əˈleɪ.ʃən/ assimilation noun [U] (INTO GROUP) Add to word list the process of becoming a part, or making someone become a part, of a group, country, society, etc.: The assimilation of ethnic Germans in the US was accelerated by the two world wars. words have definitions, not feelings travellers are not a race
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Aug 3, 2023 11:44
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Crystal Thenis posted:I fully back what Labour is trying with permanent settlements and lots of carrots. You’re really intent on not answering the question of what you’d do with/to any traveller communities who didn’t want to settle permanently anywhere aren’t you? I wonder why. loving dickhead.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:45
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I would think having a voluntarily migratory subgroup would be an economic asset wrt seasonal work etc. also gonna go out on a limb and say we should think a bit more critically about what education is for - I think there's more to it than just delivering the maximum amount of knowledge directly into children's brains as an end in and of itself e: conversation I overheard recently between education professionals was that exams and formal schooling is all very well and good but doesn't actually tell employers anything about more important qualities like "enthusiastic" "has people skills" "reliable". all this furore over making sure children are prepared for their future as working adults and we're still thinking about bits of paper with letters on them Lt. Danger fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Aug 3, 2023 |
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Aug 3, 2023 11:45
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Crystal Thenis posted:travellers are not a race I've seen others write "Muslim isn't a race" as a way to justify their bigotry too
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Aug 3, 2023 11:46
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OwlFancier posted:For a start I would suggest that the last couple of years have given us a model from which we could probably develop a remote learning service that could be available to anyone who wants it. Doesn't handle the socialization aspect but kids can get that elsewhere if there's no plague going about. This does actually raise the question of hybrid-remote learning. I think some schools are already somewhat doing it with online courses, but it could be an interesting way to, say, have virtual classes made up of kids from all over the UK to give a more holistic education. Might help prevent more kids like the one I met in my first year of uni who lived in a 99.999999% white town and casually used the terms "Pakis" and "Chinkies" in front of said people, and proudly voted BNP.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:47
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OwlFancier posted:Everyone should be given a house, but if some people don't want them, what do you do then? Theoretically yeah, but the Daily Wail-reader screams will echo round the globe if travellers get given "free houses" (plus every council will be trying to foist them off on some other council, preferably one a long way away).
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Aug 3, 2023 11:47
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Jakabite posted:You’re really intent on not answering the question of what you’d do with/to any traveller communities who didn’t want to settle permanently anywhere aren’t you? I wonder why. loving dickhead. my guy, what I say doesn’t matter, we LIVE in that world right now im backing Labour in the national debate that is literally happening today. the tory party believe things need to stay as they are and are actively attacking the legal settlement route being proposed in wales right now. this isn’t just a random rant it’s a huge discussion started by that leaflet.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:47
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fuctifino posted:I've seen others write "Muslim isn't a race" as a way to justify their bigotry too I did specifically bring up my bad interaction with Muslim lads in Birmingham to address this very point!
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Aug 3, 2023 11:48
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Aug 3, 2023 11:51
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Crystal Thenis posted:my guy, what I say doesn’t matter, we LIVE in that world right now If it doesn’t matter then why not just tell me what you’d like to see done with any travellers who refuse Labour’s plan.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:51
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Jakabite posted:If it doesn’t matter then why not just tell me what you’d like to see done with any travellers who refuse Labour’s plan. that’s for those with the power to decide
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Aug 3, 2023 11:53
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Maximum Pepsi posted:no, see!? this is why ths thread loving fails. This is (not really)why I like posters like njan99. He tells you when you done hosed up. I don't really know that you have hosed up, but I think that you have misspoken. Fail? What do you think the thread is failing to do? It's basically a chat thread where we, a mostly left-wing group of people in various forms, occasionally talk about politics. I didn't know it had an aim to fail to achieve. We're not a school debating society, there's no winners & no losers. There's just shitposts about a poo poo country. We're not trying to convert anyone to socialism because we're basically all already there, it's a self-selecting thread. If we wanted to be more than an echo-chamber for disaffected socialists there's literally the entire world for that sort of thing. Especially weird non-sequiter with "call anyone who disagrees with you a tory" bit when I didn't call anyone a Tory. Because unfortunately bigotry against the GRT community isn't restricted to Tories. People across the political spectrum drive themselves into a frothing rage about traveller communities. Crystal Thenis posted:that’s for those with the power to decide What a cowardly cop out. It's up to those in power to decide what you want done? Away & shite
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Aug 3, 2023 11:53
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It's weird how none of these issues ever seem to come up in relation to people who live in canal boats, which are considered a less common but perfectly normal way of living, and its participants are treated as regular people who are given access to properly maintained facilities and moorings that aren't just random slabs of wire-fenced concrete in the middle of a random street, and the people themselves aren't treated like flea-bitten scum everywhere they go. It's like their perception and treatment then feeds into how they conduct themselves! I wonder if the state has any power to affect this. Crystal Thenis posted:words have definitions, not feelings No, but the people using them and therefore the intent with which they are used do, that is literally how words morph into slurs.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:54
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Crystal Thenis posted:that’s for those with the power to decide this is weak
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Aug 3, 2023 11:54
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Crystal Thenis posted:that’s for those with the power to decide No, that's for you to decide, the question was what you would like to see done. Labour does not control your brain.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:54
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Travellers aren't the only people who move around a lot and need to figure out education for their kids, anyway. My dad, whitest and most ethnically British Lib Dem voter in history, was moving around from school to school all the time as a lad because of my granddad's work. All over the North and Midlands. He seems to have come out of it ok.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:55
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:It's weird how none of these issues ever seem to come up in relation to people who live in canal boats, which are considered a less common but perfectly normal way of living, and its participants are treated as regular people who are given access to properly maintained facilities and moorings that aren't just random slabs of wire-fenced concrete in the middle of a random street, and the people themselves aren't treated like flea-bitten scum everywhere they go. they pay taxes!
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Aug 3, 2023 11:55
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OwlFancier posted:What happens if people don't want to "assimilate?" Resistance is futile. Fk beaten should have read 115 posts first.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:56
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isn't the UK one of the bigger tax havens in the world?
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Aug 3, 2023 11:56
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Lt. Danger posted:isn't the UK one of the bigger tax havens in the world? Via overseas territories yes. And of course the owner of the Daily Mail, the biggest driver of anti-GRT headlines and sentiment, is domiciled in France for tax purposes only.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:58
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Crystal Thenis posted:why should they not? If I lived in Britain I would not stop until my immediate surroundings where Little Finland.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:58
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Jakabite posted:If it doesn’t matter then why not just tell me what you’d like to see done with any travellers who refuse Labour’s plan. don't make this about travellers. don't be that oval office. you are better than that. You are a better poster than that.
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Aug 3, 2023 11:58
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dog muck thievin kids crusty jugglers
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Aug 3, 2023 12:01
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