Trad Games Chat: squabbled over drafts, forked, and disbanded

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Trad Games Chat: squabbled over drafts, forked, and disbanded

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whydirt: Apr 18, 2001; Gaz Posting Brigade

we�ve got a first look at the Daggerheart convention game characters:

https://twitter.com/Darkroxas95/status/1687307261180346368

Everything looks like a mashup of PbtA and 5e, which definitely appeals to me. I love the idea of a deck of cards to hand out class features/feats.

# ? Aug 4, 2023 13:57

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# ? May 25, 2024 04:34

Thanlis: Mar 17, 2011

Runa posted:

I love how Blades in the Dark figured out you could make a progress meter by drawing a pizza and adding consequences and that was basically Prometheus and fire for tabletop roleplaying games

Clocks are from Apocalypse World, although Blades tweaked them a tiny bit.

# ? Aug 4, 2023 14:10

Tarnop: Nov 25, 2013; Pull me out

I like that Blades puts them front and centre and also ties them to the stricter mechanical rules for effect. I'm pretty sure the number of segments shaded in AW is always MC's discretion except for the harm clock

# ? Aug 4, 2023 15:34

DalaranJ: Apr 15, 2008; Yosuke will now die for you.

Runa posted:

A discussion elsewhere about the differences between Lancer and Icon had me thinking

I love how Blades in the Dark figured out you could make a progress meter by drawing a pizza and adding consequences and that was basically Prometheus and fire for tabletop roleplaying games

It�s very very funny that Baker and Harper blew everyone�s minds* by effectively saying �Did you know you you can fill up a progress bar?�

*not exempting myself here

whydirt posted:

we�ve got a first look at the Daggerheart convention game characters:

https://twitter.com/Darkroxas95/status/1687307261180346368

Everything looks like a mashup of PbtA and 5e, which definitely appeals to me. I love the idea of a deck of cards to hand out class features/feats.

Oh No. It�s hot.

This is looking like real sweet spot stuff here. The only thing I want to complain about is that there�s six attributes, and we all know why.

# ? Aug 4, 2023 17:52

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

In the old days we already had clocks they were called "HIT POINTS"

they have played us for absolute fools

# ? Aug 4, 2023 17:58

whydirt: Apr 18, 2001; Gaz Posting Brigade

The stats they�re using seem fine to me? Dumping Con since it was 99% just passive hit points and splitting Dex into gross and fine motor ability both seem good for a fantasy adventure game. And Intuition/Knowledge is a less problematic set of ability labels than Int/Wis.

# ? Aug 4, 2023 18:00

Zorak of Michigan: Jun 10, 2006

I passionately hate good die / bad die. I know that mathematically they don't screw the player any more than another other non-pooled system, but it feels harder to know what to expect. I find that I prefer rolling multiple dice and having a bell curve for probability instead of a flat one.

# ? Aug 4, 2023 18:17

Leperflesh: May 17, 2007

I like the wealth bar

# ? Aug 4, 2023 18:19

whydirt: Apr 18, 2001; Gaz Posting Brigade

The dice are added for checks and the bad die only gives complications if you succeed, otherwise it�s just a normal failure. Two dice added up doesn�t give a true bell curve, but still weights results to the middle.

# ? Aug 4, 2023 18:33

whydirt: Apr 18, 2001; Gaz Posting Brigade

Daggerheart character sheet filled in with cards.

https://twitter.com/bringmorebooks/status/1687519486021160962

# ? Aug 4, 2023 19:21

Father Wendigo: Sep 28, 2005; This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.

Ferrinus posted:

In the old days we already had invisible clocks they were called "SKILL CHALLENGES"

they have played us for absolute fools

# ? Aug 4, 2023 19:38

disposablewords: Sep 12, 2021

Extended actions, back even in 90s games. Clocks are a useful representation, though.

# ? Aug 4, 2023 20:28

Thanlis: Mar 17, 2011

Tarnop posted:

I like that Blades puts them front and centre and also ties them to the stricter mechanical rules for effect. I'm pretty sure the number of segments shaded in AW is always MC's discretion except for the harm clock

Very true. Like it�s interesting thinking about why Blades made people notice them and AW didn�t. The changes you mentioned are part of it. The fact that Blades clocks are slightly easier to draw probably mattered. Etc.

# ? Aug 4, 2023 20:31

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

Thanlis posted:

Clocks are from Apocalypse World, although Blades tweaked them a tiny bit.

ah my b

# ? Aug 4, 2023 20:36

Well Played Mauer: Jun 1, 2003; We'll always have Cabo

AW also has fronts, which are clocks that look better in tables and used for bigger plot stuff. Blades just throws clocks at everything, so it's harder to miss.

# ? Aug 4, 2023 23:21

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

DalaranJ posted:

It�s very very funny that Baker and Harper blew everyone�s minds* by effectively saying �Did you know you you can fill up a progress bar?�

*not exempting myself here

Oh No. It�s hot.

This is looking like real sweet spot stuff here. The only thing I want to complain about is that there�s six attributes, and we all know why.

my favourite 4e innovation they didn't carry forward* was the condition bar, that is a really useful way of tracking gradual change and giving it mechanical effect.

*actually exhaustion does this, in a slightly different way

# ? Aug 5, 2023 00:13

ninjoatse.cx: Apr 9, 2005; Fun Shoe

Ferrinus posted:

In the old days we already had clocks they were called "HIT POINTS"

they have played us for absolute fools

That was my take on BitD.

�Hey, now every problem is just an abstract monster you beat up. �

# ? Aug 5, 2023 05:56

LatwPIAT: Jun 6, 2011

ninjoatse.cx posted:

That was my take on BitD.

�Hey, now every problem is just an abstract monster you beat up. �

I have that problem with a lot of systems that reduce things to simple universalities. Sometimes I want to watch a movie, not a series of still images being swapped out at a high rate.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 15:00

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

You could say the same thing about partial successes and failures being translated into quantified levels of Harm. To me it's a system that ties in together and lets you build complicated structures out of simple ones, like skill trees except you're extracting them from the fiction and then this gives you quantifiable ways to translate the results of decisions + dice into world effects. It's not as focused as the Heat system which has its own set of tables to generate results/problems, I guess.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 16:44

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

DalaranJ posted:

It�s very very funny that Baker and Harper blew everyone�s minds* by effectively saying �Did you know you you can fill up a progress bar?�

*not exempting myself here

Oh No. It�s hot.

This is looking like real sweet spot stuff here. The only thing I want to complain about is that there�s six attributes, and we all know why.

If you're going to have attributes six is a good number to have, as long as they are actually well thought out and equally useful.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 16:51

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Leperflesh posted:

I like the wealth bar

Looking at I'm guessing five handfuls turn into a bag etc etc? That's a very neat way of having abstract but also concrete currency. I'm uncomfortably optimistic.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 16:55

Jimbozig: Sep 30, 2003; I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

Zorak of Michigan posted:

I passionately hate good die / bad die. I know that mathematically they don't screw the player any more than another other non-pooled system, but it feels harder to know what to expect. I find that I prefer rolling multiple dice and having a bell curve for probability instead of a flat one.

d12-d12 is exactly the same bell curve as d12+d12, though.

But if you only care about binary success/failure then neither are bell curves anyway. (My pet peeve as a stats prof: all these trad games having Bernoulli distributions for everything except damage, but people keep calling them bell curves or flat/uniform.)

# ? Aug 5, 2023 18:04

DalaranJ: Apr 15, 2008; Yosuke will now die for you.

Splicer posted:

If you're going to have attributes six is a good number to have, as long as they are actually well thought out and equally useful.

They do seem to have thought them out well. But I refuse to accept a number of attributes greater than 4.

*Throws apocalypse world into the trash and sets it on fire*

# ? Aug 5, 2023 18:12

Tuxedo Catfish: Mar 17, 2007; You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

i like attributes that map more or less directly to roles (so that you can use them to express and modify your secondary specialization[s]) and most tactical combat games i've seen can sustain somewhere between 3-5 roles before they start collapsing into redundancy

# ? Aug 5, 2023 18:14

goatface: Dec 5, 2007; I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.; Grimey Drawer

You should have an even number. Odd numbers of attributes is a sign of a disordered mind.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 18:18

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

LatwPIAT posted:

I have that problem with a lot of systems that reduce things to simple universalities. Sometimes I want to watch a movie, not a series of still images being swapped out at a high rate.

They're doing them with a rapid succession of very short audio clips now!

Ahem

My approach to attributes is to start writing moves until I have a cohesive set of them, then consolidate and simplify as needed. I should go back to my Traveller hack and do that.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 18:19

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Six attributes, just like in real life. Adds to verisimilitude.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 18:32

Humbug Scoolbus: Apr 25, 2008; The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.; Clapping Larry

mllaneza posted:

They're doing them with a rapid succession of very short audio clips now!

Ahem

My approach to attributes is to start writing moves until I have a cohesive set of them, then consolidate and simplify as needed. I should go back to my Traveller hack and do that.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 19:17

Heliotrope: Aug 17, 2007; You're fucking subhuman

Tarnop posted:

I like that Blades puts them front and centre and also ties them to the stricter mechanical rules for effect. I'm pretty sure the number of segments shaded in AW is always MC's discretion except for the harm clock

Clocks in AW always have six segments and each segment has a specific event tied to it, with later segments being more severe. So usually the MC advances the clock one segment when appropriate. If a PC does something that would advance the clock more (for example, killing an NPC who would be killed later) then you advance the clock to that point.

Blades has a different approach where the segments on the clock can vary, and you figure out what happened in the fiction based on the roll.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 20:59

ninjoatse.cx: Apr 9, 2005; Fun Shoe

dwarf74 posted:

Six attributes, just like in real life. Adds to verisimilitude.

Goons would need weird attributes like an indie one off. Like �Actually Read the Rules� and �yeah, I�d eat it�

# ? Aug 6, 2023 04:29

Kwyndig: Sep 23, 2006; Heeeeeey

dwarf74 posted:

Six attributes, just like in real life. Adds to verisimilitude.

What are the six attributes, by the way?

# ? Aug 6, 2023 04:33

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Kwyndig posted:

What are the six attributes, by the way?

poo poo, Piss, gently caress, Cocksucker, Motherfucker, and Tits

# ? Aug 6, 2023 05:41

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Kwyndig posted:

What are the six attributes, by the way?

The six goon attributes are Fatness, Depression, Pedantry, Aggression, Funny, and Horny

# ? Aug 6, 2023 05:47

HOMOEROTIC JESUS: Apr 19, 2018; Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

Kwyndig posted:

What are the six attributes, by the way?

Lustful
Obesity
Woe
Tits
Aggression
Nitpicking

e: alright, last one is actually overeXactness

HOMOEROTIC JESUS fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Aug 6, 2023

# ? Aug 6, 2023 06:08

PurpleXVI: Oct 30, 2011; Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!