[Doomsday Economics] Home of Kirbeh's FREE SLICE ($25 delivery fee)

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(Thread IKs: skooma512)

F_Shit_Fitzgerald: Feb 2, 2017

Acelerion posted:

I follow a strict abi policy (always be interviewing) and I would hate to actually need a job right now. Multiple things that I would usually be a shoe in for result in not even getting to the hiring manager in most instances.

I have recruiters reach out and then ghost me when I respond - which may be more automated messaging than anything. But its absolutely difficult right now to get a job despite what the news may tell you.

It sucks serious poo poo, which is why I legitimately get angry every time I hear the news wax rhapsodic about the "wonderful" economy.

# ? Aug 9, 2023 16:53

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# ? May 24, 2024 19:11

KirbyKhan: Mar 20, 2009; Soiled Meat

I got an agency that sells me for a fine price at the market. I'm grade-A meat

# ? Aug 9, 2023 17:02

Nothus: Feb 22, 2001; Buglord

F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:

Cover letters are among the most pointless busywork activities. In theory, they're supposed to be a way for you to sell yourself beyond just resume bullet points; I get it. But in practice no one wants to spend the time and energy to generate a completely unique cover letter for each position, so they quite understandably copy-and-paste details to match positions. In the end, even that is pointless because you're automatically rejected if your resume and/or cover letter is read into a machine that doesn't find the exact keywords they're looking for.

Job hunting is definitely not a depressing, soul-sapping process at all. They do it purposefully; probably to discipline workers who might have the arrogance to think they deserve better.

If they weren't ignoring them before out of laziness, they definitely are now that 99% of them are written by GPT

# ? Aug 9, 2023 17:04

Gorson: Aug 29, 2014

KirbyKhan posted:

Can you explain this gap in your resume?

No, I signed an NDA.

# ? Aug 9, 2023 17:11

Salt Fish: Sep 11, 2003; Cybernetic Crumb

I conducted 100 interviews in 2019 and then I think 15 total from 2020-2023. This is for a team of ~150 and the company is making record profits. The decoupling of revenue growth from team growth is unlike anything I've seen at other places I've worked. When I hired in they had us in a room with 15 people all interviewing that day and now that's as many intreviews as we do in 3 years combined.

# ? Aug 9, 2023 17:12

Wraith of J.O.I.: Jan 25, 2012

really good deep dive by the FT on how the west's offshoring + neoliberalism + short-termism (+ the USA's insane climate denialism) allowed china to corner the renewables industry........ as gil scott heron said

And all consumers know that when the producer names the tune...
The consumer has got to dance
That's the way it is. We used to be a producer � very inflexible at that
And now we are consumers and, finding it difficult to understand
Natural resources and minerals will change your world
...
Controlling your resources will control your world

.......gonna be hard to try to go back to being a producer now

quote:

How China cornered the market for clean tech
The country is the biggest supplier of materials vital for the energy transition. That could give it geopolitical leverage
by Edward White

Late last year in Beijing, officials from several of China�s technology, trade and defence agencies were called to a series of secret meetings with a single purpose: to respond to America�s sweeping restrictions on selling computer chips to Chinese companies.

In July, Beijing announced its response: it imposed restrictions on the exports of gallium and germanium, metals used in the production of a number of strategically important products, including electric vehicles, microchips and some military weapons systems.

�We had many options,� says one official directly involved in the talks. �This was not our most extreme move . . . it was a deterrent.�

To the outside world, this was a one-two punch from Beijing. First, it showed China controlled the supply chain for dozens of minerals classified in the US as critical to economic and national security. It also showed China was prepared to potentially use this as geopolitical leverage.

Matthew Funaiole, a China expert with the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a US think-tank, says the move was a �shot across the bow� which caught some in Washington off guard.

�Outside of technical circles and the defence industry, it [gallium] is not a critical mineral that people were aware of,� he says.

The episode has highlighted an inconvenient truth for the west: China is by far the lowest-cost and biggest supplier of many of the key building blocks for clean technologies. The two metals are among a series of products vital to the energy transition in which China dominates.

China is responsible for the production of about 90 per cent of the world�s rare earth elements, at least 80 per cent of all the stages of making solar panels and 60 per cent of wind turbines and electric-car batteries. In some of the materials used in batteries and more niche products, China�s market share is close to 100 per cent.

China�s cornering of the clean tech supply chain has drawn comparisons to the high level of influence that Saudi Arabia enjoys in the oil market. Just as petrochemical production provides an immovable strategic buffer for the Gulf state, China�s dominance over these clean energy sectors is adding to growing geopolitical competition and has the potential to complicate the world�s fight against global warming.

The stakes are incredibly high.

The rise and rise of China�s clean tech companies poses a massive competitive threat to western manufacturing industries, including legacy carmakers and energy giants. But in the context of a worsening technological cold war with the west, those capabilities could become a source of leverage for China.

�People are starting to realise that control of the supply chain is important, otherwise you have systemic risk because it�s easy for China to shut down supply,� says Ross Gregory, Seoul-based partner of consultancy New Electric Partners.

Western governments are now desperately attempting to catch up with China�s ascendance to the top of the world�s critical minerals and renewable energy industrial supply chains. US president Joe Biden and his counterparts in Europe have started deploying hundreds of billions of dollars in taxpayer-funded subsidies.

Analysts, however, diverge on how long it will take the west to extricate itself from Chinese control of large swaths of the clean tech supply chain � or if this can be achieved at all.

Most believe it will be impossible for Europe to meet its ambitious climate change goals without maintaining a very deep relationship with Beijing. Even the US � which boasts deeper pockets and stronger political support to decouple from China � will face a mammoth task in creating a new clean tech supply chain that excludes China.

�The US has got to go on a war footing to build up these industries to be able to compete,� says Neil Beveridge, a Hong Kong-based analyst who leads Bernstein�s energy research. �The reality is China is still the workshop of the world.�

Beijing�s supply chain stranglehold

In the middle of the vast industrial compound of Rio Tinto�s Oyu Tolgoi mine in southern Mongolia�s Gobi Desert, scores of trucks wait to be loaded with two-tonne sacks of unrefined copper before making the 80km journey south to the Chinese border.

Over the next few years, this will become the world�s fourth-biggest mine for copper, a metal central to the energy transition. As with many other extractive projects around the world, everything that is dug up here will be sent to China for processing.

While many western governments are pushing to reduce their reliance on China, Jakob Stausholm, Rio Tinto�s chief executive, pointed out that part of the Anglo-Australian group�s success in recent decades was due to demand from China. �We work well with our Chinese customers because our Chinese customers, like us, think long term,� he said in an interview at Oyu Tolgoi in July.

Nikhil Bhandari, co-head of Goldman�s Asia-Pacific natural resources and clean tech research team, says China�s grip on raw materials is �more than it appears�. This is thanks to equity investments in overseas mining operations by Chinese companies such as metals group Huayou Cobalt, carmaker BYD and battery giant CATL. In lithium, for instance, China only has a small share in mining, yet by next year Chinese interests will control more of the resource than the country needs for domestic purposes.

And there is no sign that China�s interest in tying up resources is close to being quenched.

The country�s overseas metals and mining investments are on track to hit a record this year, according to data published last week by Fudan University in Shanghai. Spending in the first six months of 2023 hit $10bn, more than the total in 2022, and investments this year are likely to surpass the previous annual record of $17bn in 2018.

Experts point to less obvious parts of the supply chain, especially materials processing and refining, to highlight where the west faces its biggest challenge in competing with China.

For decades, developed economies shunned these sorts of industrial activities, content to offshore the environmental damage to the developing world where costs would also be lower.

China is the leading producer of at least one stage of the supply chain for 35 of the 54 mineral commodities that are considered critical to the US, according to an analysis by the US Department of the Interior and the US Geological Survey.

In some cases, China�s position appears insurmountable. China produces a �staggering� 98 per cent of the world�s supply of raw gallium, according to CSIS, despite the product�s US military applications, including in next-generation missile defence and radar systems.

In electric-car batteries, for example, China�s share of the raw materials they require is lower than 20 per cent but it holds a 90 per cent share of the market for processed versions of the same materials, according to Goldman Sachs.

The production of graphite, used in the anodes in the heart of a lithium-ion battery, is instructive. While China�s market share of graphite reserves is just over 20 per cent, its market share for graphite processing is nearly 70 per cent, according to Goldman. But the cheapest way of producing graphite uses hydrofluoric acid, a highly toxic material that carries significant environmental risks, and another product for which China is the largest producer.

In several other important clean tech industries previously dominated by western companies, including wind turbines, China now enjoys a rock-solid position.

More than half of all new wind turbines installed this year will be in China, according to the Global Wind Energy Council, an industry lobby group. In the production of nacelles, which house the turbine�s power generation equipment, China has a market share of 60 per cent. It is currently building more than 60 new nacelle assembly facilities, adding to the 100 already in operation.

Further down the turbine supply chain, the GWEC data shows China has more than 70 per cent market share of many crucial components including castings, forgings, slewing bearings, towers and flanges.�

Lance Guo, an expert on Chinese politics and economy at the National University of Singapore, says the world has for decades been taken by surprise by how successful the Chinese system has been in concentrating resources to focus on major national projects.

�The rest of the world was not prepared for that,� he says. �If you work on a free market basis, you can�t move so fast.�

Ilaria Mazzocco, an expert on Chinese industrial policy with CSIS, says while the growth in many of the clean tech industries predates China�s leader Xi Jinping, who came to power in 2012, the focus on industrial policy, strategic industries and climate change has been �strengthened� under his administration.

She also points to a significant difference between how these industries have developed compared to the west: �China has been much more careful about promoting the �whole of supply chain� development.�

Cut-throat competition

When Jorge Guajardo arrived in Beijing in 2007 as the new ambassador from Mexico, one of his key jobs was to convince Chinese companies to set up factories in his home country. Given Mexico�s existing landscape of low-cost car plants, China�s fledgling auto groups seemed the natural place to start.

But if he thought the task would be easy, a meeting with BYD, a little-known battery maker supplying Nokia and Motorola phones, proved otherwise. Founder Wang Chuanfu, who had just acquired a failing state-owned car business, cut short a discussion about American trade rules.

�The battery is about 50 per cent of the [cost of the] car and I�ll never do the battery outside of China,� Guajardo recalls him saying. �It was 2007, this made no sense.�

Looking back, Guajardo, who is now based in Washington DC, says the rejection from BYD boss Wang �makes perfect sense. There was a vision . . . he was just thinking �electric�.�

Today BYD, which is backed by Warren Buffett�s Berkshire Hathaway, is viewed by industry experts as emblematic of an existential challenge confronting legacy auto industries in Germany, France, the US and Japan. In the first half of the year the company sold 1.15mn vehicles in China, or more than one-third of total sales of plug-in hybrids and battery vehicles, according to data from Automobility, a Shanghai consultancy. BYD is also the world�s second-biggest producer of batteries, part of a vertically integrated business model which is the envy of Tesla and VW.

Alongside the world�s EV battery king, CATL, Wang�s company is also among the clearest examples of how private sector ingenuity has married with Beijing�s industrial policy to create dominant positions in renewable energy and EVs.�

CSIS, the US think-tank, estimates Beijing�s cumulative state spending on the EV sector is more than $125bn between 2009 to 2021.

Beijing was ruthless. Domestic industry was prioritised with heavy-handed local requirements, and from 2016 South Korea�s leading battery makers, LG, SK and Samsung, were cut off from accessing generous subsidies, setting up a boom in CATL and BYD�s battery production.

The advantages that China now boasts when it comes to manufacturing clean tech products are underpinned by massive economies of scale benefits.�

Goldman data suggests that China can build an EV factory in about a third of the time it takes in other countries while a battery factory in the US will cost nearly 80 per cent more than in China. Bernstein says the cost of some manufacturing in the US can be three times more than in China. This highlights how China�s rivals must grapple with not only limited access to resources and upfront technology costs, but also labour shortages, wage inflation and higher environmental standards.

It is a similar story in solar and wind. Buoyed by massive domestic demand, Chinese manufacturing of polysilicon and its processing results in costs that are two-thirds the price of a European-made product, the IEA says. Chinese wind turbines are half the price of western rivals, according to S&P data.

Across these industries, Mazzocco says it is important to credit the role of intense private sector competition. �It is something we miss from the outside: we think it�s just about the subsidies. But in reality, it�s also because [companies] have been able to overcome their competitors within China in an extremely cut-throat environment,� she says. �They are the best of the best at squeezing every cent out of their operations.�

Weapons or wildfires
�If you take it one by one, prioritise the ones that are more necessary for the defence industry . . . you can start to chip away at the vulnerability,� he says.

Gore at NUS cautions that Beijing, too, needs to be careful in weaponising its clean tech dominance because China still remains deeply reliant on the west for many high-tech products.

�This could come back to haunt China,� he warns.

Still, other experts believe that ultimately western policymakers will face a choice between the competing strategic priorities of trying to decouple from China to achieve their national security goals, or co-operating to achieve their climate and economic goals.

�On one hand, you really want to protect these industries [in the west]. On the other hand, you�ve got wildfires in the Mediterranean,� says Beveridge. �What do you do?�

As China�s clean tech industry expands, analysts note distinct echoes of the geopolitical and economic disruptions caused by years of cheap Chinese steel, cement and aluminium flooding international markets. Complaints over Chinese manufacturing have led to periods of toxic bilateral tensions and thorny World Trade Organization disputes.

Around �7bn worth of Chinese solar panels are currently sitting in European warehouses, for instance, as supply outpaces demand, according to Rystad Energy, a consultancy. The stockpile is nearly enough to power all the homes in London and Paris, combined, for a year.

And yet there is deeper fear: an over-reliance on a China that appears increasingly willing to weaponise its dominance, just as it did for gallium.

Funaiole of CSIS says that while China�s control over some sectors �seems like an impossible problem� it will be possible for the US to reduce its exposure over time.

https://www.ft.com/content/6d2ed4d3-c6d3-4dbd-8566-3b0df9e9c5c6

# ? Aug 9, 2023 17:15

RadiRoot: Feb 3, 2007

https://twitter.com/deitaone/status/1689302973506109440

# ? Aug 9, 2023 17:20

Gunshow Poophole: Sep 14, 2008; OMBUDSMAN
POSTERS LOCAL 42069; Clapping Larry

RadiRoot posted:

https://twitter.com/deitaone/status/1689302973506109440

*starts chanting "AI!" like I'm clapping for tinkerbell*

# ? Aug 9, 2023 17:25

Glumwheels: Jan 25, 2003; https://twitter.com/BidenHQ

Twerk from Home posted:

The centers themselves don't make money.

10 is also optimistically high, the ratios are 1 adult per 4 babies even in lovely unregulated TM, loosening to 1 per 8 by age 3-ish but the good places won't max out the limits all the time.

We've seen a bunch of daycare centers close because the huge amounts they are charging aren't enough to keep the lights on, even. It's bad business.

At home daycares do make money, the costs are minimal other than food, license, and a helper or two. If you have 8 kids and you�re being paid $1800 per kid that�s a lot of scratch and little kids don�t eat much. All they cover is lunch and a few snacks, parents provide the diapers and wipes and other consumables.

Parents donate tons of poo poo (toys, clothes, old diapers etc) too.

# ? Aug 9, 2023 17:31

HallelujahLee: May 3, 2009

the costs are minimal minus these 3-4 costly things

# ? Aug 9, 2023 17:32

BornAPoorBlkChild: Sep 24, 2012

https://twitter.com/TheCyberSecHub/status/1688964814155231232?t=Zc94hT48zuSVS5AFTlrJtQ&s=19

https://twitter.com/TheCyberSecHub/status/1478353835378753538?t=9SpBxsQNTwnUoi6ZduYwsA&s=19

https://twitter.com/OctaviaBrownJo1/status/1687002108933898240?t=NHRE8maxx2HWK2qIHNV2dQ&s=19

# ? Aug 9, 2023 17:34

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

Kid care observation ive made recently is all my friends were regularly baby sat or even over nighted with our grandparents on the regular through my childhood. My prim old southern belle grandmother used to give me etiquette lessons and smoke next to me while we prepped meatloaf. Free child care is free childcare.

I have about 5 friends who had kids in the last few years and none of their parents will make time to see their grandkids, let alone babysit them or do overnight, and my friends are going insane. Our generations parents are either still working or if they are retired decided that retirement definitely wasnt going to involve helping with kids.

My own in laws are too busy doing cruises and rv trips to help my sister in law with her kids.

silicone thrills has issued a correction as of 17:49 on Aug 9, 2023

# ? Aug 9, 2023 17:46

loquacius: Oct 21, 2008

F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:

It sucks serious poo poo, which is why I legitimately get angry every time I hear the news wax rhapsodic about the "wonderful" economy.

I feel like I'm being gaslit

# ? Aug 9, 2023 17:49

HallelujahLee: May 3, 2009

Acelerion posted:

I follow a strict abi policy (always be interviewing) and I would hate to actually need a job right now. Multiple things that I would usually be a shoe in for result in not even getting to the hiring manager in most instances.

I have recruiters reach out and then ghost me when I respond - which may be more automated messaging than anything. But its absolutely difficult right now to get a job despite what the news may tell you.

# ? Aug 9, 2023 17:50

KirbyKhan: Mar 20, 2009; Soiled Meat

RadiRoot posted:

https://twitter.com/deitaone/status/1689302973506109440

Cathy Wood still has money to make bad bets lmfao who keeps giving her their money

# ? Aug 9, 2023 17:54

loquacius: Oct 21, 2008

My dudes I have gotten form-letter rejections for so many job listings I am quite clearly qualified for on paper, sometimes after I talk to a recruiter and they're all smiles on the phone, sometimes without even the phone call. Some of the jobs are fake, and the rest have already gone to one of the 5 million other people who have applied to them, and you will never know which is which, the system is perfect

# ? Aug 9, 2023 17:55

Zodium: Jun 19, 2004

uncertainty ftw

# ? Aug 9, 2023 17:56

BornAPoorBlkChild: Sep 24, 2012

webcams for christ posted:

wife and I work full time and are gearing up for kids, planning on spending at least 50% of our take home salaries on childcare. so definitely less purchasing power than if one of us was a stay at home parent. but we're both in a field that you have to enter by your 30s and will absolutely not let you back in if you take a break. on the other hand 2 of us paying into public and private pension plans will also hopefully pay off (lol lmao)

what type of job is that seriously? :stare:

# ? Aug 9, 2023 17:57

In Training: Jun 28, 2008

BornAPoorBlkChild posted:

what type of job is that? Seriously?

They're CIA operatives who are paid to post. Like frosted flake

# ? Aug 9, 2023 17:58

Zodium: Jun 19, 2004

In Training posted:

They're CIA operatives who are paid to post. Like frosted flake

good work if you can get it

# ? Aug 9, 2023 17:59

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

Skinnymansbeerbelly posted:

By making daycare providers employees of the state thus breaking the linkage between what parents can afford and what providers are paid.

There's a linkage? That would be an improvement. The money doesn't go to the employees, it goes to the owners and everyone else gets the minimum. You know, the capitalist mode of production and all.

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:01

no lube so what: Apr 11, 2021

Glumwheels posted:

At home daycares do make money, the costs are minimal other than food, license, and a helper or two. If you have 8 kids and you�re being paid $1800 per kid that�s a lot of scratch and little kids don�t eat much. All they cover is lunch and a few snacks, parents provide the diapers and wipes and other consumables.

Parents donate tons of poo poo (toys, clothes, old diapers etc) too.

a family member used a home daycare provider on the Eastside. Situation as you described. They have a house in Leavenworth they would go to every Friday-Sunday. Seems like she had a good system, making cheese and only having to deal with 4 families. And to your point, all the patrons donated a ton and were super accommodating so their kids had good experiences.

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:02

no lube so what: Apr 11, 2021

loquacius posted:

My dudes I have gotten form-letter rejections for so many job listings I am quite clearly qualified for on paper, sometimes after I talk to a recruiter and they're all smiles on the phone, sometimes without even the phone call. Some of the jobs are fake, and the rest have already gone to one of the 5 million other people who have applied to them, and you will never know which is which, the system is perfect

when I went through similar, it was so demoralizing. I hope you haven't let it get to you to much

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:04

loquacius: Oct 21, 2008

no lube so what posted:

when I went through similar, it was so demoralizing. I hope you haven't let it get to you to much

I'm experienced enough at this point to know it doesn't have anything to do with my own competence or innate worth. I'm finding it tough to act enthusiastic on the calls I get because I don't really have much hope for any individual process but I at least am not having a crisis of confidence or anything over it, I just hate capitalism

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:08

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

ProperGanderPusher posted:

Doesn�t HR routinely confirm hire and departure dates from past employers for new applicants? Or have they gotten way lazier on average since I last checked?

they absolutely did this for me recently, they were pretty thorough. I think I would have regretted fudging anything about dates. unfortunately I got the better part of a year unemployed that's gonna be there forever lol. it's a lovely Bidenomics prize that will follow me forever.

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:08

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

silicone thrills posted:

Kid care observation ive made recently is all my friends were regularly baby sat or even over nighted with our grandparents on the regular through my childhood. My prim old southern belle grandmother used to give me etiquette lessons and smoke next to me while we prepped meatloaf. Free child care is free childcare.

I have about 5 friends who had kids in the last few years and none of their parents will make time to see their grandkids, let alone babysit them or do overnight, and my friends are going insane. Our generations parents are either still working or if they are retired decided that retirement definitely wasnt going to involve helping with kids.

My own in laws are too busy doing cruises and rv trips to help my sister in law with her kids.

I mean, it's kind of unfair for us to discuss how child care is devalued on one hand & then to expect elders to take it on gratis, or for less pay than the professionals earn.

And as you said, a lot of elders need to work, but even if they don't it's sort of unfair to expect them to give up their retirements to do a difficult, labor-intensive but often-bored-out-of-your-skull job.

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:12

Iverron: May 13, 2012

ProperGanderPusher posted:

Doesn�t HR routinely confirm hire and departure dates from past employers for new applicants? Or have they gotten way lazier on average since I last checked?

lies of omission seem easier to get away with, but if I had to provide actual dates I probably wouldn�t

using just years when you can is very nice

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:14

loquacius: Oct 21, 2008

mawarannahr posted:

they absolutely did this for me recently, they were pretty thorough. I think I would have regretted fudging anything about dates. unfortunately I got the better part of a year unemployed that's gonna be there forever lol. it's a lovely Bidenomics prize that will follow me forever.

My second kid was born during this unemployment period and I can use him as a convenient excuse

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:16

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

webcams for christ posted:

wife and I work full time and are gearing up for kids, planning on spending at least 50% of our take home salaries on childcare. so definitely less purchasing power than if one of us was a stay at home parent. but we're both in a field that you have to enter by your 30s and will absolutely not let you back in if you take a break. on the other hand 2 of us paying into public and private pension plans will also hopefully pay off (lol lmao)

ATC?

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:16

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

loquacius posted:

My second kid was born during this unemployment period and I can use him as a convenient excuse

I hope you find work soon man, this poo poo time sucks.

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:16

Xpforr: Sep 7, 2022

loquacius posted:

I'm experienced enough at this point to know it doesn't have anything to do with my own competence or innate worth. I'm finding it tough to act enthusiastic on the calls I get because I don't really have much hope for any individual process but I at least am not having a crisis of confidence or anything over it, I just hate capitalism

I did one phone and two rounds of in-person interview a couple months back, for a random analyst position. Never heard back. At least I never got my hopes up so I haven�t stopped applying. Still I�m so tired of this poo poo can�t imagine how other are dealing.

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:16

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

skooma512 posted:

There's a linkage? That would be an improvement. The money doesn't go to the employees, it goes to the owners and everyone else gets the minimum. You know, the capitalist mode of production and all.

Hence why nannying or running home-provided daycare is more lucrative than working for a corporate chain or non-profit.

***

The LAT ran a story about the state-mandated pre-K program in public grade schools & how the problem of toileting factors in:

quote:

Potty training, �accidents,� wiping issues complicate 4-year-olds� start at public schools

With just weeks left to prepare her 4-year-old son for his first day in public school, Andrea Gallegos still has a few things to check off on her to-do list. Buy him a new backpack. Wean him off his daily nap. And achieve a major developmental milestone � using the toilet completely on his own.

Her son has been out of diapers for nearly two years. But in preschool, the teachers would supervise him in the bathroom, help him wipe if he needed assistance, remind him to wash his hands, and change his clothing after the occasional accident. When he starts transitional kindergarten in Lakeside, a suburb of San Diego, he�ll have to manage everything on his own.

So Gallegos is acting as coach � talking her son patiently through the steps of how to use the bathroom alone, joining a sensitive but crucial parenting ritual as thousands of families prepare the state�s youngest learners for their first days in a public school classroom.

Potty training � once primarily the purview of parents and child-care programs � is increasingly becoming an issue for public school districts. As part of the state�s expansion requiring elementary schools to add a new grade level, transitional kindergarten, campuses are enrolling more 4-year-olds. The children arrive at varying stages of development: Some are ready to go the toilet on their own, others have trouble wiping, and a few come in pull-ups. And many districts are grappling with how to handle this most basic need.

The California Department of Education received so many questions on toilet training last year they clarified their policy: Schools must admit all age-eligible children, regardless of whether they are potty-trained. But the state does not give specific guidance on what supports districts should provide. The result is a mishmash of policies across districts that parents often learn only when they show up for the first day of school.

Children with special needs can receive toilet assistance as part of an individualized education program. But generally, schools have not provided assistance to children without special needs, in part because of concerns about child abuse, said Gabriela Torres, an attorney with Disability Rights California.

The California Teachers Assn. recommends that the issue be bargained into teachers union contracts. A spokesperson for the Department of Education said school districts may need to renegotiate with labor unions to meet the needs of more children who aren�t fully potty-trained.

For 4-year-olds enrolled in a licensed child-care facility, California�s health and safety code is clear. Staff are required to change diapers, help with using the toilet and always supervise the child visually, even in the bathroom. But when those same 4-year-olds attend public school transitional kindergarten, commonly called TK, those rules don�t apply. Instead, each district sets its own guidelines.

At Los Angeles Unified, the district said that TK teachers will provide numerous bathroom breaks and that aides will be available to �support� children if they have an accident. At San Diego Unified, an online FAQ previously said students must be potty-trained. The FAQ has been updated, saying the state requires the district to admit non-potty-trained students � and the district offers excused absences in consecutive 10-day spans to learn at home.

At Montebello Unified, students still in diapers are sent to the office, where the nurse or health aide will change them. And at Las Virgenes Unified, enrolling families are referred to an online potty training FAQ complete with resources and recommendations, along with notice that they�ll have to pick their up child from school in the event of an accident involving a bowel movement.

All districts strongly urge parents to make sure their children are potty-trained before school begins.

The problem is that the traditional K-12 system is often ill-prepared to handle the needs of very young children, said Cheri Doria, director of the early education program at Lindsay Unified School District in the Central Valley.

�All the state has done is move our 4-year-old preschoolers into the school system. TK is preschool,� Doria said. �It�s not that the kids need to adjust to the school system. The school systems needs to adjust to the learners.�

But it�s not just the youngest learners who need assistance. The state has also received questions about toilet issues all the way up through the third grade, said Shanna Birkholz-Vasquez, an Education Department official who handles TK issues and support.

�Students have returned from the pandemic with varying needs and trauma, and we know that trauma has an impact on toileting regressions,� she said.

The department currently has a team working on a set of developmentally appropriate recommendations on how school districts can support children with their most delicate needs.

Still, for TK teachers in particular, toilet issues can present a near-daily predicament.

When teachers are considering a shift to TK, �it�s the first thing they ask,� said Gennie Gorback, former president of the California Kindergarten Assn., a membership organization for early childhood educators. �It�s not, �How can we be developmentally appropriate or support the emotional learning of younger learners?� It�s, �What if they need help with the bathroom?��

�This is definitely something we�re concerned about,� said Micaela Moreno, a TK teacher at Long Beach Unified. �We should not be with kids alone in a room, and especially not a bathroom.�

Moreno said she tries to teach her students the basics of using the toilet, and even offers step-by-step tips through a closed bathroom door � telling them to rip off a piece of toilet paper, wash their hands and throw the paper towel in the trash can.

But she doesn�t help them wipe.

�I had kids last year that would cry every time they needed to go to the bathroom, and they said, �I need help wiping!� And it broke my heart,� she said. �We were not trained to wipe children. It shouldn�t be part of my job.�

Her TK students share a single-stall bathroom with 54 students, and accidents are a frequent problem. Students are all asked to bring an extra set of clothes, and are sent to the office to change if they don�t make it to the toilet in time. If the accident is too serious to be handled at school, Moreno said, the parents are called.

Last year, Moreno said a new problem emerged. Two students showed up the first day in pull-ups. Moreno said the school did not provide diapering assistance. Instead, she had an aide walk the children to the office when a pull-up became too full, where she said the parents were called to assist. �Sometimes they�re sitting in there for 30 minutes, 45 minutes. It�s very sad.�

Cindy Young, who directs Long Beach Unified�s early childhood program, said it is rare for TK students to be in diapers. Still, the district is adapting to increasing needs. This year, they�ve added toilet assistance to the job descriptions of the aides who work in every TK classroom. The district created a training video to teach best practices.

But such accommodations are not the norm throughout the state. In her Palos Verdes Peninsula classroom, for example, TK aide Michelle Hines says, children are expected to be completely self-sufficient. When a child has an accident, they are handed a new set of clothing and sent to the bathroom to clean up on on their own.

�If it�s ugly and messy � and sometimes it is � they still have to deal with it themselves,� she said. �Sometimes they come out and their pants or their shirt are on backwards, but we go with it.� At the beginning of the year, when children are still getting used to school, a child might have several accidents a day.

But expecting children to clean themselves after a serious accident is simply not developmentally appropriate, pediatric specialists say. Many 4-year-olds may not even be physically able to wipe themselves, said Quiara Smith, a pediatric occupational therapist in Santa Rosa, Calif., who specializes in pelvic health.

�Four is too young to expect independence and thoroughness 100% of the time. That�s not realistic,� she said. �They�re still learning where their body is in space, and their arms are too short to necessarily get all the way around and rotate their body in order to wipe themselves thoroughly.�

When children do not wipe adequately on their own, Smith said, the consequences can be serious � urinary tract infections, rashes that lead to skin breakdown, spreading of germs when they don�t wash their hands adequately, and shame. �Other kids will ask, why do you smell? It affects their self-esteem and lowers their confidence,� she said. Often, children try to withhold until they get home from school, which can cause additional medical problems.

Smith recommends that parents begin teaching their children about toilet hygiene as early as possible, even describing the wiping process during diaper changes. �The language you use is important � �I�m going to keep your body clean so it doesn�t get sick,�� she said. As children get older, she advises parents to show them how to wipe other objects, such as the counter, before gradually teaching them how to wipe their bodies.

Andrea Gallegos has her own approach, honed last year when her older son was in TK � fiber for dinner, yogurt for breakfast and hope that their bodies adjust to using the bathroom before school. And in case her wiping training doesn�t work in time, she�s ready with a backup plan: a nice long shower after the school day is done.

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:19

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Xpforr posted:

I did one phone and two rounds of in-person interview a couple months back, for a random analyst position. Never heard back. At least I never got my hopes up so I haven�t stopped applying. Still I�m so tired of this poo poo can�t imagine how other are dealing.

this happened to me (2-4 rounds of interviews on addition to tests and poo poo) like 5 times. I got so mad, and lately was thinking of moving back in with my folks. had to start taking blood pressure medication this year.

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:21

KirbyKhan: Mar 20, 2009; Soiled Meat

Friend of mine got her 4 year old kicked out of her childcare for having too many accidents and I'm like... What business do you have doing business with 2-4 year olds if you can't handle poop?

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:23

BornAPoorBlkChild: Sep 24, 2012

In Training posted:

They're CIA operatives who are paid to post. Like frosted flake

https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/1656388654707900416?t=xOVu8pxc02J8L5vRQtcOyw&s=19

:lol:

stop being schizo

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:27

is pepsi ok: Oct 23, 2002

https://twitter.com/NeilRetail/status/1689226267294416896

quote:

A growing number of Americans are making emergency withdrawals from their 401(k) retirement plans to cover a financial emergency amid chronically high inflation, according to new data from Bank of America.

About 15,950 workers taking part in employer-sponsored 401(k) plans made a "hardship" withdrawal during the first three months of 2023, according to Bank of America's analysis of clients' employee benefits programs, which tracks about 4 million accounts.

That marks an increase of about 36% from the second quarter of 2022.

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:29

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

ATC?

Given the shortages in that industry, I would be surprised if it was that strict and competitive. But then again, it wouldn't surprise me at all since many labor shortages are due to inflexible standards and just straight up class warfare.

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:33

NyetscapeNavigator: Sep 22, 2003

Nodelphi posted:

Why did having a gap in employment become such a glaring red flag? I seem to remember it being pretty typical growing up.

Employers have always hated employment gaps and seen it as a red flag.

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:33

Burn Zone: May 22, 2004

Willa Rogers posted:

Hence why nannying or running home-provided daycare is more lucrative than working for a corporate chain or non-profit.

***

The LAT ran a story about the state-mandated pre-K program in public grade schools & how the problem of toileting factors in:

holy gently caress this is so sad

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:38

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# ? May 24, 2024 19:11

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

Willa Rogers posted:

I mean, it's kind of unfair for us to discuss how child care is devalued on one hand & then to expect elders to take it on gratis, or for less pay than the professionals earn.

And as you said, a lot of elders need to work, but even if they don't it's sort of unfair to expect them to give up their retirements to do a difficult, labor-intensive but often-bored-out-of-your-skull job.

It wouldn't be so bad if these weren't' the same people who were constantly hounding for grandkids/more grandkids. It took until grandkid number like 4 before my in laws stopped harassing me about it.

# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:40

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Doomsday Economics] Home of Kirbeh's FREE SLICE ($25 delivery fee)

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