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Femtosecond posted:The reason I see for optimism around Sean Fraser is less the policy aspect and more that he actually seems like a competant person that can drive implementation. He certainly got that population number to move. I feel like he's been building (heh) up to this for a little while, in that the new federal immigration rules targeting specific professions (vs just "can you plausibly pass for a manager ? come on in!") just came out a few months ago. Whether anything will come of that is maybe a different question - when I think of people willing to go through a bunch of bureaucratic hoops, I don't tend to think of brickies but still, there's obviously at least an attempt being made at something with a bit more depth. Baronjutter posted:Have there been reforms to the TFW programs? Anecdotally and all that, but when I was going through the PR process in 2017-2019, working for the sort of place that would probably have been nothing but TFWs if they felt they could pull it off, there were none - just a bunch of former TFWs who had come over in 2013 or so, who had since become permanent residents and were still working there. Company's logic being that it wasn't worth the application fee as if they followed the rules re advertising etc they'd probably manage to hire someone, and if they didn't they'd just get rejected. TFW submissions are per job advertised IIRC, not a blanket 'you get to hire people' sort of thing. A year ago, they were advertising the same sorts of jobs explicitly noting that they would consider people that needed the temp work permit ie that they thought they had a decent chance of getting applications through. Today, they're back to requiring that you have your permit situation sorted out prior to applying ie no TFWs. I'm not aware of anything really changing much as far as the rules of the program - maybe just a case of, there was the ~nobody wants to work~ moment, they managed to get a bunch of apps through in that moment, and now they're not getting new ones, but they do of course have a bunch of extra staff out of it & will for a few years. quote:I know in Victoria there was a local McDonalds owner in a bad part of town simply declare "no one wants to work anymore" and how canadian youth have no work ethic and run away just because they're paid minimum wage to deal with extremely hostile and dangerous customers every day. So, he managed to get in on the TFW program and stocked his McDonalds with only TFW's. He also housed them all in some flop house he bought. Those workers were not remotely being treated right and their labour rights were horribly abused as you can imagine someone who's boss, landlord, and visa holder are all the same rear end in a top hat. There were a couple of guys like that in Golden, the Tim Hortons guy (I think he had four or five of them between there and Edmonton) did the same thing with a minivan worth of kids from Jamaica and another from Quebec every summer. The former generally put up with it for a couple of years, reasoning that it was worth enduring some bullshit to get through the PR process and then move out to live with the family members who invariably existed out in Ontario; the latter, not having to worry about immigration stuff, were mostly there for a good time so didn't really care as long as work didn't cut into hiking or paragliding or racing around in tiny rustbucket cars or whatever they did with their downtime. I think it tends to 'work out' in that whenever someone gets a bulk shipment of TFWs like that they tend to be from the same place, more or less, so there's automatically a bit of a mutual support group for when the boss's back is turned - you can put up with a lot if you've got a few shoulders to cry on in the same position. Lots of, did you get on at the right time with the right agency in the Phillippines who Tim Hortons #5837 owner ended up getting in touch with to source people kind of thing. There's probably a PhD and a good book or two in collecting stories of how little groups like that end up where they are and how life goes during the process. eXXon posted:Anything to improve conditions for workers, you mean? Nothing substantial that I know of. Yeah the IMP covers a whole pile of stuff, from soldiers sent here for training, to aircrew on leased planes in some circumstances, to students working etc. Not all that meaningful as one big number, really. The PGWP is nominally less exploitative in the sense that you have an open work permit for however many years and so can go work for anyone, in theory. This works great if you're, say, someone with a bit of work experience already who came over here to do a Masters course, or some technical course at a smaller but serious college, since you'd probably be basically employable anyway but for the lack of the piece of paper validating it. That's the program working as designed, more or less. However...if you're one of the chumps who went to a lovely private 'university' and 'graduated' from a course in ~Business Communications~ or whatever your pathway to staying in Canada (which, make no mistake, is the whole point, if you're in this category) is very often the same Tim Hortons or Subway or similar sort of thing -> provincial sponsorship route that TFW holders would be looking at - you just got to pay tens of thousands of dollars for the privilege. For those people I'd probably say it's even more exploitative in practice - sure, you can quit your job reheating 50,000 muffins every day, but then what? Back home to explain why you just burnt $50k for a degree that's worth about as much as the muffin wrappers you go through in a shift? Those low-level immigration programs often have a time-in-job requirement - so you're allowed to quit and go elsewhere, sure, but you're taking a huge risk by doing so, meaning you probably won't do it. .
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# ? Jul 28, 2023 03:23 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 06:26 |
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hm well that would seem counter productive.quote:Canada’s housing shortfall could widen by another 500K units if immigration continues at current pace: report Surely the government will consider all of these economic reports... oh quote:Canada Sticks With Immigration Target Despite Housing Crunch
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# ? Aug 4, 2023 04:11 |
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Great. Just when I thought my wife and I would finally be able to afford a somewhat reasonable house next spring.
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# ? Aug 4, 2023 04:20 |
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Maybe if we increase interest rates some more no one will be able to afford a home and that will be good for some reason
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# ? Aug 4, 2023 04:46 |
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There is gonna be a nasty backlash against newcomers if this carries on and I wouldn't be surprised if the Conservatives make a big deal of it next election
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# ? Aug 4, 2023 06:03 |
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COPE 27 posted:Maybe if we increase interest rates some more no one will be able to afford a home and that will be good for some reason This but unironically
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# ? Aug 4, 2023 07:05 |
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COPE 27 posted:Maybe if we increase interest rates some more no one will be able to afford a home and that will be good for some reason I dunno man if people can't afford to carry their mortgage and put their house up for sale it sounds like housing is gonna get more affordable for buyers
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# ? Aug 4, 2023 07:06 |
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High interest rates also mean very little new housing when we need it the most. Low rates + cities not allowing new housing put us into the awful mess we're in now, but the solution was to allow housing, not keep rates jacked up.
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# ? Aug 4, 2023 08:08 |
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What if we only allow immigrants that have construction skills. And then actually give them money to build housing. That's a pretty important part.
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# ? Aug 4, 2023 13:22 |
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Alctel posted:There is gonna be a nasty backlash against newcomers if this carries on and I wouldn't be surprised if the Conservatives make a big deal of it next election they'll do it if they nominate someone non-white that seem to the be lesson from the UK tories
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# ? Aug 4, 2023 15:42 |
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Raise interest rates, businesses stop hiring and let some go. Makes people relocate to cheaper areas?
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# ? Aug 4, 2023 15:53 |
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Typo posted:they'll do it if they nominate someone non-white Also nominate women, preferably non white, to deliver the absolute worst and most vicious legislation. At best, coming out of the mouth of a woman softens the blow and vindicates the party of patriarchal bias, and at worst it still isn’t received well except there’s no men taking the hits.
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# ? Aug 4, 2023 19:43 |
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MeinPanzer posted:Blah_blah's original point was that Vancouver is an "unpleasant place to live" compared to similar US cities because its amenities are mediocre or bad, and therefore they didn't understand why anyone would pay exorbitant prices to live there if they could go to Seattle/San Diego/wherever. it's pretty simple. it's extremely hard to immigrate to the us. it's easier to immigrate to canada. if you're already canadian you don't need to do anything to move to vancouver short of buying a plane ticket or driving. so the question isn't 'why live in vancouver when you could live in san diego?' (it's because you can legally live and work in vancouver and can't in san diego). it's 'why live in vancouver when you could live in _____?'. i'm biased because i live in vancouver, but there's basically nowhere in canada you could fill in that blank with and not have me laugh at the ridiculousness of the question
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# ? Aug 5, 2023 01:05 |
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qhat posted:Also nominate women, preferably non white, to deliver the absolute worst and most vicious legislation. At best, coming out of the mouth of a woman softens the blow and vindicates the party of patriarchal bias, and at worst it still isn’t received well except there’s no men taking the hits. They've been doing this forever, see Thatcher, Harris.
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# ? Aug 5, 2023 04:46 |
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Ghost Leviathan posted:They've been doing this forever, see Thatcher, Harris. I was mostly referring to recent home secretaries Priti Patel and Suella Braverman, two despicable witches that would rather see illegal migrants drown in the channel than rescue them and process their asylum applications. But yes your examples are also correct.
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# ? Aug 5, 2023 05:14 |
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Mantle posted:I dunno man if people can't afford to carry their mortgage and put their house up for sale it sounds like housing is gonna get more affordable for buyers On the other hand, some argue that the amount of money available to would-be purchasers does not affect the sale prices in the market. Baronjutter posted:High interest rates also mean very little new housing when we need it the most. Low rates + cities not allowing new housing put us into the awful mess we're in now, but the solution was to allow housing, not keep rates jacked up. Yeah, but high interest rates and tighter lending standards will mean that the people who've been buying well beyond their means will be driven out of the market unless they're very lucky.
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# ? Aug 5, 2023 20:43 |
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Alctel posted:There is gonna be a nasty backlash against newcomers if this carries on and I wouldn't be surprised if the Conservatives make a big deal of it next election They are in a bit of a spot because they expect to be in power shortly and have no intention of disobeying the same marching orders Trudeau received about increasing immigration, but of course they'll find a way to talk out of both sides of their mouth while enacting the same policies. Long term though this will really play to the Conservatives strengths, playing established settler communities off newcomers is the sine qua non of Canadian conservatism for 200+ years.
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# ? Aug 6, 2023 17:02 |
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DynamicSloth posted:They are in a bit of a spot because they expect to be in power shortly and have no intention of disobeying the same marching orders Trudeau received about increasing immigration, but of course they'll find a way to talk out of both sides of their mouth while enacting the same policies. Who exactly is issuing these marching orders?
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# ? Aug 6, 2023 17:18 |
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Mederlock posted:Who exactly is issuing these marching orders? business. every CoC is complaining endlessly about labour shortages and managing wage growth. may just be anecdotal but from what I can see most of our entry level service jobs are reliant on imported labour.
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# ? Aug 6, 2023 18:12 |
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Baronjutter posted:Have there been reforms to the TFW programs? I know in Victoria there was a local McDonalds owner in a bad part of town simply declare "no one wants to work anymore" and how canadian youth have no work ethic and run away just because they're paid minimum wage to deal with extremely hostile and dangerous customers every day. So, he managed to get in on the TFW program and stocked his McDonalds with only TFW's. He also housed them all in some flop house he bought. Those workers were not remotely being treated right and their labour rights were horribly abused as you can imagine someone who's boss, landlord, and visa holder are all the same rear end in a top hat. it's getting worse: https://twitter.com/BrettEHouse/status/1689120715847438336 it's notable recently the push from businesses have being to pull more lower-skilled workers into Canada, so expect more abuses of this sort
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# ? Aug 9, 2023 18:54 |
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So this is how nationalist populism will arrive in Canada. Neat.
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# ? Aug 9, 2023 21:15 |
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Guest2553 posted:So this is how nationalist populism will arrive in Canada. Neat. I’d expect this to be a bigger part of elections going forward, but every party wants to keep the immigration wheels greased. Counting down to a Canadian style AfD.
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# ? Aug 10, 2023 02:18 |
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Folks, the housing crisis would be over if you would just let me give billions of dollars worth of protected greenspace to my developer cronies.
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# ? Aug 10, 2023 02:26 |
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a primate posted:I’d expect this to be a bigger part of elections going forward, but every party wants to keep the immigration wheels greased. Counting down to a Canadian style AfD. the worst part is Canada genuinely does need immigration, but the way it's currently being manipulated by business is imperiling the rather successful Canadian immigration program that existed for 30 years or so
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# ? Aug 10, 2023 03:12 |
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You see, the corpo and business overlords and the center -right/right wing politicians they've bought off want to undermine the lower/middle class and bring in cheap, low-skilled labour that won't complain about things like a toxic workplace, safety issues, or labour law violations (or else their landlord/boss/immigration[same person] sponsor will kick them out). Bringing in more qualified, skilled immigrants who actually have standards for their own safety/workplace environment/income/etc. just isn't nearly as enticing to these business owner pricks.
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# ? Aug 10, 2023 04:19 |
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It's in the ruling classes' bipartisan interest to have immigration be difficult but also poorly enforced and full of loopholes to ensure they have an expendable scapegoat underclass to drive down wages and fuel reactionary distraction from the real problems. Same playbook as the USA, of course.
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# ? Aug 10, 2023 04:49 |
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Mederlock posted:You see, the corpo and business overlords and the center -right/right wing politicians they've bought off want to undermine the lower/middle class and bring in cheap, low-skilled labour that won't complain about things like a toxic workplace, safety issues, or labour law violations (or else their landlord/boss/immigration[same person] sponsor will kick them out). Bringing in more qualified, skilled immigrants who actually have standards for their own safety/workplace environment/income/etc. just isn't nearly as enticing to these business owner pricks. Yeah, there's tons of stories of actual skilled immigrants coming to Canada and being like "housing was expensive, I got paid like poo poo, so I went home" and maybe we should do more looking into that sort of thing rather than importing tons of people from shitholes so impoverished that even working in a Tim Hortons in bumfuck and living in a rooming house looks like a good option.
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# ? Aug 10, 2023 05:34 |
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PT6A posted:Yeah, there's tons of stories of actual skilled immigrants coming to Canada and being like "housing was expensive, I got paid like poo poo, so I went home" and maybe we should do more looking into that sort of thing rather than importing tons of people from shitholes so impoverished that even working in a Tim Hortons in bumfuck and living in a rooming house looks like a good option. A very delicately worded and nuanced take, as usual.
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# ? Aug 10, 2023 06:01 |
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PT6A posted:Yeah, there's tons of stories of actual skilled immigrants coming to Canada and being like "housing was expensive, I got paid like poo poo, so I went home" and maybe we should do more looking into that sort of thing rather than importing tons of people from shitholes so impoverished that even working in a Tim Hortons in bumfuck and living in a rooming house looks like a good option. Yeah Brexit/Tories really screwed my home country over
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# ? Aug 10, 2023 06:21 |
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Alctel posted:Yeah Brexit/Tories really screwed my home country over Glad to see the Canada debt thread is now the UKIP version of the UKMT.
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# ? Aug 10, 2023 06:59 |
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Sometimes I dip out of political talk then peek my head around the door and discover another alphabet soup of acronyms that I'm not sure I want to learn about.
melon cat fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jan 29, 2024 |
# ? Aug 10, 2023 12:10 |
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qhat posted:Glad to see the Canada debt thread is now the UKIP version of the UKMT. ? I was making a joke about the UK (where I was born) being run into the ground and being impoverished (actually not that much of a joke, things are pretty bad there right now)
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# ? Aug 10, 2023 15:25 |
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Alctel posted:? I was making a joke about the UK (where I was born) being run into the ground and being impoverished (actually not that much of a joke, things are pretty bad there right now) I’m from the UK also and it was run into the ground starting with the exact kind of anti immigrant rhetoric that I hear coming out of people’s mouths in Canada these days. It’s why I left, and also why I will never vote for a Tory in my life, I know well where that particular rabbit hole goes.
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# ? Aug 10, 2023 15:45 |
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qhat posted:I’m from the UK also and it was run into the ground starting with the exact kind of anti immigrant rhetoric that I hear coming out of people’s mouths in Canada these days. It’s why I left, and also why I will never vote for a Tory in my life, I know well where that particular rabbit hole goes. Canada is pretty unique among the first world for high degree of public support for immigration, largely because Canada was in the unique position to pick and choose who gets to immigrate. And we have taken that for granted for way too long. For multiple decades or so Canada has chosen to take in highly educated immigrants so people like immigration. "The immigrant dude is my doctor who fixed my bad back" is a pretty apt selling point. This type of immigration puts pressure on the -top- of the labor market, which arguably gives lower-income Canadians more access to services but limited competition for their labor. This seem to be the political palpable way of having a large intake of immigrants on an annual basis, but over the last 2 years we have switched to using immigration and TWF to plug holes in the labor market, particular lower on the skill ladder. Marking a break from the policy of the previous 30 years or so. So now we have created a situation where lower income Canadians are seeing increasing competition for their labor and at the same time EVERYONE can see the housing shortage and accompanying rent increases. The government is making very short term decisions that's going to have long term political repercussions. For now jobs are still plentiful, but you do have to start wondering what happens on the next recession. Anecdotally my social cycle, most of whom are non-white immigrants themselves, have turned considerably against immigration mostly due to high housing costs and the perception that the system is being abused. I don't think Canada ever gets Trump or Le Pen style popular nationalist parties because it's hard to have a popular white nationalist parties when the swing voter is a non-white suburbanite. The one person who -tried- this (Bernier) got resoundingly crushed. The Canadian version of anti-immigration politics is probably going to look like a milder version of Bernie Sanders in 1990s. It's going to be framed to be about wages and housing prices rather than cultural dislike of newcomers. However, obvious this is going dragging a lot of shitheads out of the woodworks of Alberta as well. Typo fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Aug 10, 2023 |
# ? Aug 10, 2023 16:41 |
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Typo posted:"The immigrant dude is a doctor who delivers my Uber Eats because he can't get certified in Canada" ftfy
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# ? Aug 10, 2023 16:51 |
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McGavin posted:ftfy yeah that's a serious problem for 1st generation immigrants you have qualified people who are forced to become generic labor because the government can't get its poo poo together with a certification process
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# ? Aug 10, 2023 16:54 |
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The word can't doing a lot of lifting in that sentence.
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# ? Aug 10, 2023 17:02 |
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StealthArcher posted:The word can't doing a lot of lifting in this country.
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# ? Aug 10, 2023 17:06 |
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StealthArcher posted:The word can't doing a lot of lifting in that sentence. a good point, sadly
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# ? Aug 10, 2023 17:10 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 06:26 |
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Typo posted:yeah that's a serious problem for 1st generation immigrants i had an uber driver in montreal last week who was some high up government official in yemen during the civil war. he showed me pictures of him with colin powell, condoleeza rice, george w bush and robert gates. he told me about fleeing to the usa as a refugee via somalia and how he then snuck across the canadian border to claim refugee status because canada offered better family reunification options. then he tried to convince me to marry his daughter and told me he wanted to become a cop because he misses having a gun
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# ? Aug 10, 2023 22:56 |