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Yeah as others have said part of the reason Hogan got so big besides his world class charisma is his initial run was during the national expansion but before weekly TV like Raw/Nitro became a thing. He didn't need to be on TV every week and didn't need to tour the same territory weekly so his act never had a chance to grow old. He never would of been as big a draw in the territory days like say Bruno and if his initial run came during the Nitro/Raw era he would of probably had 1/2 year hot run before burning everyone out like what happened during his heel run
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Aug 11, 2023 15:37
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The Cameo posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuqacRuUIdI 
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Aug 11, 2023 15:40
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Next time one of my coworkers has a heart attack, I know what to do. Last time I just went and grabbed one of the ten doctors who work here, like an idiot.
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Aug 11, 2023 16:12
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SatoshiMiwa posted:Yeah as others have said part of the reason Hogan got so big besides his world class charisma is his initial run was during the national expansion but before weekly TV like Raw/Nitro became a thing. He didn't need to be on TV every week and didn't need to tour the same territory weekly so his act never had a chance to grow old. Thinking about this, I’m curious how often I actually saw Hogan on TV as a kid and was fine with it. He certainly wasn’t going to be on Superstars or Wrestling Challenge or even Prime Time every week. Maybe a promo, but not wrestling every show. I also grew up in the 80s so Hogan was it for me until 1992.
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Aug 11, 2023 16:22
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Gavok posted:
Taking this as an opportunity to talk about Hogan-adjacent mystery wrestler MR. AMERICA. As I recall, Hulk’s post-championship run saw him doing more midcard/tag-team work, partnering with Edge and hanging around on Smackdown. Somewhere along the line, he ran afoul of Mr. McMahon and they began a long-awaited(?) feud. IIRC, this is where the infamous “right gay-guy at the https://youtu.be/qgW8ptzRr8k Anyway, they feud a bit and Hogan gets banned or fired or whatever. Gone forever, bye Hulk. BUT WAIT - Soon after, promos start up hyping the debut of a guy dubbed MR. AMERICA. These ran for a few weeks until finally, we got to meet this exciting new mystery man on an episode of Piper’s Pit (with…Shawn O’Haire there for some reason?). https://youtu.be/MQtdJk6wPVI Despite the copious similarities and allegations from McMahon, MR. AMERICA was obviously NOT the Hulkster. Here he is telling you for yourself!! https://youtu.be/ipttj_Dq74A In fact, he even took a lie detector test to prove it! https://youtu.be/el8vTqpptAs There were lots of silly segments during MR. AMERICA’S short run, such as an arm wrestling match with McMahon: https://youtu.be/dSPnFxyGwcU He even got a smooch from his boss!: https://youtu.be/GtfQ0paNyaE What a dreamboat! In the end, MR. AMERICA left almost as quick as he arrived, with some even saying he took his mask off at a house show to reveal his true identity, HULK HOGAN!! But we’ll never know for sure, it’s one of wrestling’s greatest mysteries. It was the perfect silly role to slot Hogan into post the nostalgia champ run. You couldn’t rely on him to actually main event anymore, but he could elevate those around him and still be part of the show as a zany side character. Plus the McMahon feud made perfect sense on paper, and despite the overall execution of the feud it was at least a memorable fun few moments for a guy that otherwise had burnt up all his creative stock and fan credibility years before; anything he’s done since (where he obviously has creative control, like TNA) have been bland rehashes of his greatest hits. Hogan absolutely needs someone to rein him in creatively and I only wonder what his career could have been if he wasn’t a colossal piece of poo poo with a huge ego.
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Aug 11, 2023 16:50
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McMahon's a monster, but he does occasionally have a soft heart for people he worked with. I think the Mr. America gimmick was his way of giving Ho Kogan some work after his big angle with Warrior fizzled out before they even had a match.
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Aug 11, 2023 16:55
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BodyMassageMachine posted:As I recall, Hulk’s post-championship run saw him doing more midcard/tag-team work, partnering with Edge and hanging around on Smackdown. Don't forget being MURDERED by Brock Lesnar. Plus I liked his mini-feud with Kurt Angle.
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Aug 11, 2023 17:00
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The Mr America gimmick was just a cheap copy of Charlie Brown from Outta Town.
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Aug 11, 2023 17:07
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He's gonna get caught, just you wait and see.
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Aug 11, 2023 17:09
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Gavok posted:Don't forget being MURDERED by Brock Lesnar. Plus I liked his mini-feud with Kurt Angle. I do remember thinking it was pretty cool that Hogan tapped out to Angle. Maybe his first tap out ever? Can’t recall if he ever did in WCW.
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Aug 11, 2023 17:34
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MrBling posted:The Mr America gimmick was just a cheap copy of Charlie Brown from Outta Town. Oh absolutely, but I’m a sucker for “banned wrestler is blatantly cosplaying to get around the ban” gimmicks See also: The Mysterious Handsome Stranger in Chikara. DEFINITELY NOT Archibald Peck!! https://youtu.be/1kgT0tDRb7w Edit lol forgot about this https://youtu.be/tXmVOl-ZJR4
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Aug 11, 2023 17:35
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Ganso Bomb posted:I do remember thinking it was pretty cool that Hogan tapped out to Angle. Maybe his first tap out ever? Can’t recall if he ever did in WCW. He tapped out to Luger.
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Aug 11, 2023 17:37
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Suplex Liberace posted:He didnt need to do anything like that in North America because those fans are easy to please. Hogan always worked to the crowd and you had to work harder in Japan to get over. If you watch Hogan's early stuff you can watch him throttle back until he knows exactly what the fans want to see which is honestly smart. If they go out of their minds at big boot legdrop, do it. The problem is fans stopped going out of their minds for it and Hogan couldn't really adapt.
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Aug 11, 2023 19:09
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You can't say "that doesn't work for me, brother" to a crowd reaction or people not opening their wallets.
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Aug 11, 2023 20:00
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rujasu posted:I remember a point in WWE where RVD was getting those huge ovations but also had like 4 or 5 straight matches where he legit busted his opponents open. I can understand the guy being in the doghouse if he's an actual physical danger to other workers (but I also don't recall that being the reason for him not getting more of a push) Karen Angle wrote to the WON to complain about RVD stiffing Kurt to the point of busting him open, it was funny and weird
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Aug 11, 2023 22:08
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Lid posted:He was always always ALWAYS over but never pushed, tellingly during The Invasion when he came out of all the invaders, WCW and ECW, he was the only one cheered and it wasnt light cheers it was ravenous applause. And when they finally pushed him, after five years, he got busted for drugs in a traffic stop which of course RVD has weed on him its RVD but then it was well we can never trust you again so they never pushed him again. RVD also never evolved once he figured out who he was around '98-'99. He had to modify some things once he came to WWF due to the larger rings/no weapons once he moved on from the hardcore stuff, but the RVD of 2002 was the RVD of 2012, just older and slower. It's been the same way with Jeff Hardy; he never really changed his style up into anything else and it's the same spots he's been doing for several decades now. That he still does the Swanton despite stiffing the gently caress out of everyone with it despite having the Twist of Fate right there as a viable finish speaks volumes.
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Aug 11, 2023 22:28
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Why does 2Cold Scorpio languish in low card hell for his wwf runs? Seems like a dude running 200X indy work rate in 1997 WWF would be pretty popular, maybe like a IC or European Run?
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Aug 11, 2023 22:30
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Defenestrategy posted:Why does 2Cold Scorpio languish in low card hell for his wwf runs? Seems like a dude running 200X indy work rate in 1997 WWF would be pretty popular, maybe like a IC or European Run? Drug issues, which got even worse in the WWF because he both got paid better and had more time to use them.
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Aug 11, 2023 22:49
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Aku posted:Drug issues, which got even worse in the WWF because he both got paid better and had more time to use them. Also he's black
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Aug 11, 2023 22:55
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Vince cared about the Flash Funk gimmick for precisely a month before he got bored
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Aug 11, 2023 23:00
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Benne posted:Hogan was also a great seller, which I feel gets overlooked in the "wasn't good in-ring" discussions. A big part of what made his comebacks blow the roof off is that he would spend half of the match selling like the bad guy was killing him for real. It's incredible how he could go from 'invincible superhero' to 'oh my god that poor old man' and back again. Hogan was good at what Hogan did; presenting an entertaining morality play to a national audience that probably didn't value the more technical artistry of wrestling. Hogan's matches as a heel sucked partially because he was old and had no reason to care, partially because he was lost in matches outside his comfort zone his formula. Watching him try to lead the offense in the Goldberg match really sussed that out for me. Especially when he took off his belt, whipped Goldberg with it, dropped it, then a minute later had to awkwardly pick it up and put it back on.
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Aug 11, 2023 23:20
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ChrisBTY posted:It's incredible how he could go from 'invincible superhero' to 'oh my god that poor old man' and back again. I wonder how much of the legendary Rock/Hogan match was improvisation. Cuz every heel tactic Hogan did in the match got him overwhelmingly cheered while Rock started to do heel-ish things like picking up the weight belt to whip Hogan back (which JR even commented would get Rock booed to hell) as well as the way he tried to "revive" the ref by giving him this dickhead little kick. I remember that kick so well for some reason, and King going "ow!"
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Aug 11, 2023 23:28
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Defenestrategy posted:Why does 2Cold Scorpio languish in low card hell for his wwf runs? Seems like a dude running 200X indy work rate in 1997 WWF would be pretty popular, maybe like a IC or European Run? In addition to what others have said as reasons Scorpio's style was very Japan Junior style and that 100% didn't fit with the style WWF wanted to run even in 97.
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Aug 12, 2023 00:27
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Also he's black I didn't want to say but yeah. Also probably being weirdly thought of a light heavyweight despite being like 240.
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Aug 12, 2023 00:50
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thought experiment: Right after wrestlemania 15 through a bunch of shenanigans, its projected the WWF Upper Card* gets put out of commission for a long due to, airplane crash, disease, or whatever, before Vince can go over to WCW to beg Nash or someone to comeback you are tasked with figuring out the upper card for the next few PPV's. Who do you run on top? You don't have to make specific matches, just which handful of people who are signed currently in WWF at that time are you trusting to stay relatively sober, put on decce matches, not poo poo themselves in promos, and do business. *Vince, Kane, Taker, Austin, Rock, HHH, and Mankind.
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Aug 12, 2023 01:13
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Defenestrategy posted:thought experiment:
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Aug 12, 2023 01:26
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Sisal Two-Step posted:This might be a silly question but I just watched the DSOTR ep about Bash at the Beach 2000 so it's on my mind. Why was Hogan so popular? Was he good in the ring? Good at promo? What was the deal?
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Aug 12, 2023 01:46
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BodyMassageMachine posted:BUT WAIT - Soon after, promos start up hyping the debut of a guy dubbed MR. AMERICA. These ran for a few weeks until finally, we got to meet this exciting new mystery man on an episode of Piper’s Pit (with…Shawn O’Haire there for some reason?). After a while they threw him with Piper who could still cut a great promo but couldn't wrestle regularly anymore, and needed some muscle to back him up, but mostly dropped the gimmick. Then they released Piper and sent O'Haire to OVW before eventually releasing him too. So much wasted potential there - he had a great look and was a standout in late-era WCW, but Vince had no idea how to use a heavyweight who moved like a cruiserweight.
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Aug 12, 2023 01:54
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In the 2 main points being discussed: I think it's really important to note that RVD wasn't just the only guy to get cheered from the heel side in the Invasion. He was HUGELY over as a babyface. To the point where Vince pretty obviously had to adjust plans and add him to a main event program because his reactions were so big. It's sort of similar to Jericho's reactions about a year earlier, where there was clearly a moment where if they were willing to take a risk, they might have been able to make a new definitive main event guy, but instead they kind of dithered and decided 'upper midcarder who can maybe main event TV or a B PPV' was the slot they saw both guys in. And the Mr America gimmick is absolutely just Charlie Brown or the Midnight Rider, but good lord do I love those kinds of gimmicks. I'm begging some promotion to do it. Have the BCC cheat Orange Cassidy out of a Loser Leaves Town match only for The Citrus Avenger to show up and it's just OC but with a cheap domino mask on.
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Aug 12, 2023 02:01
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Defenestrategy posted:thought experiment: I'm assuming this is just them being out of commission with a broken leg or a stupidly long flu and not everyone involved dying, because I think that would unironically kill the company. What I'd hope would happen: Give Big Show a big push because him being world champion would be less weird if the entire promotion is in the phantom zone, and if Vince is out maybe someone who knows how to book a giant will be writing the show. Push Steve Blackman and Ken Shamrock to make a nascent Angry MMA Man division, then put Dr Death in with them instead of running Brawl For All. Push the tag division, which they'd kinda do normally but they have a lot more time to fill. When Jericho shows up a few months into this, strap a rocket to his rear end so your injured people have a big cool new guy to feud with when they come back in like a month. EDIT: Oh, yeah, I forgot about Owen and D'lo. And Jarrett could give you a good generic top heel at this point. Also ignore the Dr Death suggestion, I forgot when Brawl For All was. What would probably happen: Those seven guys being wheeled out to cut promos all show despite being visibly injured, like Steve Austin in 97-98 but sadder. Lurks With Wolves fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Aug 12, 2023 |
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Aug 12, 2023 02:09
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Defenestrategy posted:thought experiment: Since Vince is still alive I have to go with Big Show because A. He's big and Vince will fire me if I do not push the big guy B. I love him
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Aug 12, 2023 02:24
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Gaz-L posted:In the 2 main points being discussed: My idea to kick off the Bullet Club vs Bullet Club gold feud would be to have Jay wrestler some shows as Captain New Japan. It's memphis enough for Gedo!
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Aug 12, 2023 02:37
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Lurks With Wolves posted:I'm assuming this is just them being out of commission with a broken leg or a stupidly long flu and not everyone involved dying, because I think that would unironically kill the company. Yea, this is more just you have to basically keep house shows, papes, and tv going til people are healing and/or Vince can negotiate contracts for main event dudes from WCW[Nash/Hall/Luger/etc] to fill the gaps and vince himself is off doing that or having a mental breakdown so you're not able to use Mr. McMahon as a character to help push dudes.
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Aug 12, 2023 03:08
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you would be out of business very fast but i would make Dustin Rhodes WWF champion, his problems be dammed.
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Aug 12, 2023 03:35
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Sexual Champion, Mark Henry
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Aug 12, 2023 03:40
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davidbix posted:To add to what everyone else said: He was just worlds better on promos and in the ring before the mid-1986 shift to the greater emphasis on formulaic matchups and weird promos/angles where he's an obnoxious rear end in a top hat. Before then, he consistently had good brawling-style matches with a lot of his opponents, and on promos, it's a lot easier to see the likability and what a force of nature he was. Adding on to this as an 8 yr old only Hulk Hogan could credibly sell this promo to me. https://youtu.be/MlhowZb0m-s
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Aug 12, 2023 04:12
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I'd probably strap a rocket on Edge and make him my new top babyface and have Big Show be a monster heel
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Aug 12, 2023 04:36
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davidbix posted:To add to what everyone else said: He was just worlds better on promos and in the ring before the mid-1986 shift to the greater emphasis on formulaic matchups and weird promos/angles where he's an obnoxious rear end in a top hat. Before then, he consistently had good brawling-style matches with a lot of his opponents, and on promos, it's a lot easier to see the likability and what a force of nature he was. Yeah, it's very noteworthy that his early WWF feuds which were really good with people like Orndroff and Piper had a lot more personal stakes than 'monster of the month decides to take a run at Hogan.' Bonk posted:So what happened here was, after weeks of hype vignettes for Sean O'Haire's really cool Devil's Advocate character, they couldn't figure out how to make it work on live TV once they actually redebuted him. He got a couple backstage segments where he told people to give into their temptations, but they never gave him any substantial material to work with, much less a feud. Wasn't the problem also Sean couldn't deliver his Devil's Advocate promos without cracking up?
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Aug 12, 2023 13:54
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Dawgstar posted:Wasn't the problem also Sean couldn't deliver his Devil's Advocate promos without cracking up? Thats what I heard at the time too, for whatever thats worth.
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Aug 12, 2023 14:04
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Oddly, I think MJF would nail that persona now. Hell, he already calls himself the Devil anyway.
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Aug 12, 2023 17:03
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