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Ojjeorago
Sep 21, 2008

I had a dream, too. It wasn't pleasant, though ... I dreamt I was a moron...
Gary’s Answer

eke out posted:

he's also probably got at least someone that could make a play for the outstanding honorblades the Shin have, if he doesn't have some among his agents already, which could be pretty terrifying force multipliers.

Future Stormlight The Shin already only have half of the honorblades left. Ishar and Nale have theirs, Jezrien’s is with Moash, Taln’s is ???, and since Taln initially had his Honorblade, Chana’s presumably would’ve poofed back to her when she returned and caused the desolation.

So the blades left with the Shin as far as we know are Edgedancer, Truthwatcher, Lightweaver, Elsecaller, and Willshaper. All the support classes. This also means that absent any radiants, the Shin have lost access to Adhesion, Gravitation, Division, Cohesion, and Tension.

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CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

NikkolasKing posted:

I'm saying he won't kill the baby, which means Odium wins and proves Taravangian right. If your principles leads to the God of Hatred's victory and the deaths of god knows how many, your principles are clearly wrong.
The core of Dalinar's -- and everyone else's -- magic powers is a denial of that. Journey before destination: the ends do not justify the means. If victory can only be had through an immoral act, it is not worth having.

No peace is worth a single innocent child. The only moral act is, and always will be, to walk away from Omelas.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

CapnAndy posted:

The core of Dalinar's -- and everyone else's -- magic powers is a denial of that. Journey before destination: the ends do not justify the means. If victory can only be had through an immoral act, it is not worth having.

No peace is worth a single innocent child. The only moral act is, and always will be, to walk away from Omelas.


But also that doesn't necessarily mean that Odium wins by default if Dalinar doesn't kill the champion. If it is a draw then maybe it's just a cause for renegotiation of whatever the original deal was. Given that the original deal was between shard holders who are holders no longer, then it's likely it would look quite different.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



i don't think spoilers are needed here for my main point.

The most important point of the story is that the heroes' not only win, they win through their principles. If their principles lead to them losing, and the death of all mankind, then they have objectively failed in their role as a hero. Maybe in the real world we would have some obligation to end the human race rather than kill a baby, but a work of fiction such as this is supposed to be edifying where our heroes beat the odds and prove that, yes, good people can triumph. Not that "good people have to inevitably lose to stay good."

NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Aug 14, 2023

Tunzie
Aug 9, 2008
Feels pretty likely to me that this is a false dichotomy and there will be a secret, third option - our heroes will just have to find it.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon
We will clearly be tapping into the JRPG inspirations behind all of the Cosmere - "No, gently caress you, Kill God"

Echophonic
Sep 16, 2005

ha;lp
Gun Saliva
Yeah, getting one over on the most arrogant thing in the multiverse and his buddy, the second most arrogant thing in the multiverse, is a well-trod road.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

M_Gargantua posted:

We will clearly be tapping into the JRPG inspirations behind all of the Cosmere - "No, gently caress you, Kill God"
How do you think we got into this mess in the first place

CapnAndy fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Aug 14, 2023

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone



Man, I don't know if I ever actually finished the Mistborn trilogy, because this second book is not ringing any bells unlike the first one.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Nitrousoxide posted:

Man, I don't know if I ever actually finished the Mistborn trilogy, because this second book is not ringing any bells unlike the first one.

In my experience it's pretty much universally regarded as the worst book in the trilogy, vastly inferior to the first one and greatly inferior to the third.

pik_d
Feb 24, 2006

follow the white dove





TRP Post of the Month October 2021

NikkolasKing posted:

In my experience it's pretty much universally regarded as the worst book in the trilogy, vastly inferior to the first one and greatly inferior to the third.

It's really incredible that Brandon looked at the WoT slog and said "I can do that all in one book", and then did.

pik_d
Feb 24, 2006

follow the white dove





TRP Post of the Month October 2021
Stormlight WoK chapters 60-69 (second ~half of Part 4)

Dalinar and Kaladin are really coming into themselves in these chapters. Dalinar has to go through it, realizing that the journey is important. Or "Journey before Destination" as the Ideal says. Nohadon wasn't always the person Dalinar thinks of him as, and maybe Dalinar realizes he has to change too. Kaladin, on the other hand, is becoming a more realized Radiant. He's powering up, though briefly Syl was worried he didn't know the "words", or the Ideal of his order. I'm guessing she had to be absolutely sure he was what she thought she was.

I'm guessing we'll get more about Navani's scribes translating some old text and songs in future books, but it was pretty cool that she realized he was actually just talking in some Old Tongue, to borrow from WoT. I do think they're a bit naive to think that going "Here, see, he's not crazy" will do anything to calm people down and get them to follow him. People speaking in tongues and being possessed is scary. And plenty of people will be very invested in not dealing with Dalinar's poo poo, even if he is Highprince of War. I guess I'm glad about Dalinar and Navani's relationship going forward at least? Shame that Adolin's girlfriend seems to have dropped off the face of the earth though. Maybe she'll be back when things calm down.

Kaladin had yet another wild plan, with the Parshendi carapace armor, but it worked? I was convinced that when others put on the armor they'd still end up dead since only Kaladin can use Stormlight to dodge the arrows. I'm still not convinced by the "they recognize Kaladin" thing from the Parshendi, unless they can sense his abilities. They only seem to call him "Neshua Kadal" when he ends up glowing, so I think that's their word for Radiant. So much of Kaladin's fight with the Parshendi feels weird, from them having spheres in their beard so he could use them, then removal of them, to their amazement of him, their recognition, and their desire to kill him. Some of it feels preordained, while others is reactionary.

In some ways the Parshendi feel like a hive-mind, with the singing, the recognition of Kaladin, and the coordination of attacks, but in other ways I'm not so sure. We see Dalinar look at a frightened child, or a scowling partner. We see some Parshendi flee Kaladin but then others who didn't see what he did line up to fight him.

And finally, Dalinar finally got to see Kaladin glow. He also has some awareness that he defeated the Parshendi Shardbearer with some ease. I'm looking forward to that getting explored in future books. How long will it take before they really trust each other and talk about the things they know? I want Dalinar to recognize Kaladin as a Radiant on his own, but maybe Kaladin tells him?

And Oathbringer, the sword that is a future book title, is now with Sadeas, who has been exposed as honorless and an antagonist. How long will it stay with him? I'm also curious if the sword will have any fun nominative determinism associated with it. I don't know how I feel about Dalinar without sword or plate, though I'm glad the book confirmed that you can just regrow the armor when it's damaged.

And Syl is an honorspren, one I hardly know anything about. And she had Big Syl moment where she wasn't tiny. That was very odd, but makes me wonder if she's a surgebinder that Nohadon was talking about. I'm guessing Radiants all have a spren? And either something happened to them, or they decided to leave the Radiants leading up to the Recreance. I am very curious why no one else seems to have a spren friend though, especially Szeth. I feel like there has to be a connection between Syl being around and Kaladin using Stormlight.

There is so little book left, and so much left that I don't know. I really don't understand the magic system as well as I understood the systems in Elantris or Mistborn after one book. So much of the history is a mystery, though maybe Navani can translate some of that. Szeth's origin and current situation are both full of questions. What is Shallan going to pivot into? She's literally taken some baby steps to magic and failed at stealing a fabrial so far? For being 1000 pages this book really doesn't explain a lot.


Progress so far:

Grundulum
Feb 28, 2006

pik_d posted:

There is so little book left, and so much left that I don't know.

You are less than one book into a ten-book series, which itself has accompanying novellas and sister series to explore the universe and its magic systems. It is wholly unsurprising that this is the case for you. That would compare to, what, the first third of Mistborn: The Final Empire?

In other words, strap in, enjoy the ride, and please keep journaling as you read.

Louisgod
Sep 25, 2003

Always Watching
Bread Liar
pik_d, time to join the bumper sticker club



One time I had a dude in a Jeep behind me start honking like crazy and once we got on a highway he passed me and yelled out his window "JOURNEY BEFORE DESTINATION" and not that I have a cool Prius.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

pik_d posted:

Shame that Adolin's girlfriend seems to have dropped off the face of the earth though. Maybe she'll be back when things calm down.
This is hilarious. You don't know why yet, but it is. (Honestly, everything to do with Adolin's girlfriend(s) is the best running gag of the early books.)

quote:

In some ways the Parshendi feel like a hive-mind, with the singing, the recognition of Kaladin, and the coordination of attacks, but in other ways I'm not so sure. We see Dalinar look at a frightened child, or a scowling partner. We see some Parshendi flee Kaladin but then others who didn't see what he did line up to fight him.
Good observation! I believe that some people in-universe have drawn a similar conclusion from the same evidence.

quote:

I'm guessing Radiants all have a spren? And either something happened to them, or they decided to leave the Radiants leading up to the Recreance. I am very curious why no one else seems to have a spren friend though, especially Szeth. I feel like there has to be a connection between Syl being around and Kaladin using Stormlight.
:thunk::thunk::thunk:

quote:

There is so little book left, and so much left that I don't know. I really don't understand the magic system as well as I understood the systems in Elantris or Mistborn after one book. So much of the history is a mystery, though maybe Navani can translate some of that. Szeth's origin and current situation are both full of questions. What is Shallan going to pivot into? She's literally taken some baby steps to magic and failed at stealing a fabrial so far? For being 1000 pages this book really doesn't explain a lot.
Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and tell you this bit flat out -- don't expect those answers in this book. You'll get most -- not all, but most -- of them next time, which is part of the reason why I eternally rag on TWoK as a glorified prelude to WoR.

Louisgod posted:

One time I had a dude in a Jeep behind me start honking like crazy and once we got on a highway he passed me and yelled out his window "JOURNEY BEFORE DESTINATION" and not that I have a cool Prius.
I saw several Hoid For President t-shirts at GenCon and not one of them reacted to the Raoden pin on my bag. Maybe he was too small :(

road potato
Dec 19, 2005
I've done a re-listen at random times in random order for the audiobooks of all of stormlight archive.

Way of Kings was fun because of how well it sets up everything that follows- going back and reading these theories and recaps is part of the fun when you know how all the pieces fit together (or at least how they all do by the end of book 4.) I really enjoyed the re-listen of that. General stormlight spoilers: so much of Oathbringer/ROW is all about "what if we're not the good guys" and in WOK he does such a good job of just "yeah, here's what this society is like, it's normal" and the normal is just weird and violent and super into their gender-roles and their bizarre relationship with the church. It's so patently odd and it really sticks out on the re-listen.

Words of Radiance was a long time ago and I feel like it was Meh on the second time through.

Oathbringer was one of my favorites on the first read, but I feel like on the re-listen I didn't have the same emotional impact because I knew what was coming at the end of the flashback sequences. I just felt so much dread in the lead-up to the end, just seeing how much of a monster Dalinar was, and wondering what event was monstrous enough for him to have to have a reckoning with himself. I could aprpeciate the buildup, but since I knew where it was heading the emotional drama just wasn't there.

Rhythm of War gets some flack for length/slog, but I thought the action sequences in it are still great the 2nd time around, and a lot of the characters have interesting internal struggles to wrestle with. I like that a lot, and maybe because of the audiobook format it moved at an easier clip for me.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

road potato posted:

Way of Kings was fun because of how well it sets up everything that follows- going back and reading these theories and recaps is part of the fun when you know how all the pieces fit together (or at least how they all do by the end of book 4.) I really enjoyed the re-listen of that. General stormlight spoilers: so much of Oathbringer/ROW is all about "what if we're not the good guys" and in WOK he does such a good job of just "yeah, here's what this society is like, it's normal" and the normal is just weird and violent and super into their gender-roles and their bizarre relationship with the church. It's so patently odd and it really sticks out on the re-listen.
One of the best instances of that is when the news breaks about the humans being the Voidbringers and the Stormfather just goes "Honestly, I'm genuinely surprised none of you figured this out, what part of this planet made you think you could possibly be native to it?" Like, even right now we're all having to dance around it with pik and mord, and it is so blatantly obvious how every description of Roshar is "hey here's this one remotely Earthlike section and everything else is loving bizarre" and they're not seeing it, just like we didn't.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone



I really don't remember anything in this Vol 2.

Man is Eland a dull lawful good boy when he's not trying to get under his father's skin. I really don't like the Vin/Eland relationship.

Also, I'm going to be shocked if Vin is not also a feruchemist.

> Vin swollows one of Sazed's metal storage things and can sense its power,
> Vin can control the metals in the Lord Ruler's body and can pierce copper clouds

> feruchemarcy is about controlling the metals inside your body

CK07
Nov 8, 2005

bum bum BAA, bum bum, ba-bum ba baa..

CapnAndy posted:

One of the best instances of that is when the news breaks about the humans being the Voidbringers and the Stormfather just goes "Honestly, I'm genuinely surprised none of you figured this out, what part of this planet made you think you could possibly be native to it?" Like, even right now we're all having to dance around it with pik and mord, and it is so blatantly obvious how every description of Roshar is "hey here's this one remotely Earthlike section and everything else is loving bizarre" and they're not seeing it, just like we didn't.

No pik_d's allowed!:
it was so hard after one of their diary entries not to be like "yeah gosh isn't it weird how the carapace people maybe seem to have some kind of connection to the huge carapace monsters? I wonder if the carapace beasts of burden and carapace plants have something in common with them too!" but that would have been taking away one of the best reveals in the Cosmere imo. I honestly think they'll figure it out before the reveal though, they are sharp!

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE

CK07 posted:

No pik_d's allowed!:
it was so hard after one of their diary entries not to be like "yeah gosh isn't it weird how the carapace people maybe seem to have some kind of connection to the huge carapace monsters? I wonder if the carapace beasts of burden and carapace plants have something in common with them too!" but that would have been taking away one of the best reveals in the Cosmere imo. I honestly think they'll figure it out before the reveal though, they are sharp!

Hoid even alludes to that, when he ask if Rosharans even know why they call that carapace-pet an "axe-hound".

socialsecurity
Aug 30, 2003

When I first caught up on Sanderson WoR had just came out, I'm glad it did because that would been a hell of a wait.

Big Bowie Bonanza
Dec 30, 2007

please tell me where i can date this cute boy
I am listening to the audiobook of the Lost Metal and I am sorry Wayne fans but the stream of consciousness commentary on modern society/technology is super cringe and I am actively dreading any time I have a Wayne POV. It feels like he flanderized the hell out of the character. I really want to keep going because I want to find out about the Cosmere but I’m struggling bad between this book and Rhythm of War.

Louisgod
Sep 25, 2003

Always Watching
Bread Liar

Big Bowie Bonanza posted:

I am listening to the audiobook of the Lost Metal and I am sorry Wayne fans but the stream of consciousness commentary on modern society/technology is super cringe and I am actively dreading any time I have a Wayne POV. It feels like he flanderized the hell out of the character. I really want to keep going because I want to find out about the Cosmere but I’m struggling bad between this book and Rhythm of War.

Push through, the story eventually picks up and there isn’t as much Wayne commentary down the line.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon
People who dislike Wayne and Lift are sourpusses and no I will take no questions.

big mean giraffe
Dec 13, 2003

Eat Shit and Die

Lipstick Apathy

M_Gargantua posted:

People who dislike Wayne and Lift are sourpusses and no I will take no questions.

Lift is great because she's a kid, but Wayne is the most obnoxious douche until TLM when he becomes tolerable after a lot of self-reflection and growth.

road potato
Dec 19, 2005

Ojjeorago posted:

Future Stormlight The Shin already only have half of the honorblades left. Ishar and Nale have theirs, Jezrien’s is with Moash, Taln’s is ???, and since Taln initially had his Honorblade, Chana’s presumably would’ve poofed back to her when she returned and caused the desolation.

So the blades left with the Shin as far as we know are Edgedancer, Truthwatcher, Lightweaver, Elsecaller, and Willshaper. All the support classes. This also means that absent any radiants, the Shin have lost access to Adhesion, Gravitation, Division, Cohesion, and Tension.


Oathbringer / future stormlight it's curious to think about what combinations could happen if a bondsmith without Honor's limitations uses one of the Honor Blades. If there was more time between ROW and the contest, Dalinar could train up on one of the other blades and create some ridiculous power-combo, like how he and Shallan can lightweave the whole Roshar map. In the battle at the end of Oathbringer Jasnah talks about how her elsecaller soulcasting powers are amplified because she was using them so close to the perpendicularity that had just been opened. Imagine Dalinar having the full perpendicularity and all of that possibly reality-bending power paired with the elsecaller surges, or any of the others.

I'm curious to see how much of the book takes place after the contest. How much of the war is just going to be an arms race for who can create the most anti-stormlight and anti-voidlight daggers, how the fused react to fighting with real, mortal stakes for the first time ever, how the spren respond to the possibility of real, genuine death. The obvious plot point is that the contest happens towards the end of the book, but now that I think about it, the immediate fallout and repercussions might be the more interesting story.

Sucks that it's still more than a year away. So it goes!




Updated to fix spoiler tag, thanks!

road potato fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Aug 15, 2023

rafikki
Mar 8, 2008

I see what you did there. (It's pretty easy, since ducks have a field of vision spanning 340 degrees.)

~SMcD


road potato posted:

Oathbringer / future stormlight it's curious to think about what combinations could happen if a bondsmith without Honor's limitations uses one of the Honor Blades. If there was more time between ROW and the contest, Dalinar could train up on one of the other blades and create some ridiculous power-combo, like how he and Shallan can lightweave the whole Roshar map. In the battle at the end of Oathbringer Jasnah talks about how her elsecaller soulcasting powers are amplified because she was using them so close to the perpendicularity that had just been opened. Imagine Dalinar having the full perpendicularity and all of that possibly reality-bending power paired with the elsecaller surges, or any of the others.

I'm curious to see how much of the book takes place after the contest. How much of the war is just going to be an arms race for who can create the most anti-stormlight and anti-voidlight daggers, how the fused react to fighting with real, mortal stakes for the first time ever, how the spren respond to the possibility of real, genuine death. The obvious plot point is that the contest happens towards the end of the book, but now that I think about it, the immediate fallout and repercussions might be the more interesting story.

Sucks that it's still more than a year away. So it goes!



Fix your quoted spoiler tag.

road potato
Dec 19, 2005
Whoops, fixed. Thank you!

pik_d
Feb 24, 2006

follow the white dove





TRP Post of the Month October 2021
Finished the book :toot: I'm going to do this a bit more linearly as the book is read, so I'll jump back and forth between characters as their POVs come up rather than group it all together, just because it was easier to go back and skim as I wrote stuff since there were only a few chapters in Part 5.

Stormlight WoK chapters 70-Epilogue (Part 5)
No epigraphs in part 5, boo Brandon, booo!

Oh my god the Shallan POVs were so cathartic. I didn't quite piece together that Jasnah had soulcasted both her bread and the jam, but I was absolutely right that she wasn't actually using the fabrial. That hers was fake was funny, makes me wonder about Shallan's father. Was his always fake too? Was he Soulcasting directly? I am glad that Shallan called out Jasnah on her Soulcasting. It really felt like what I wanted to say for so long.

As for the lineheads being spren, they need a truth to work, so are they going to be truthspren or something? And are they actually in Shadesmar? And what is Shadesmar? Szeth and Kaladin don't seem to visit that place, but they're not doing the same things that Jasnah and Shallan are doing.

And her truth was that she killed her father? I didn't get that inpression from the book, she even talked about how it had been a disasterous evening when he died. I remember her thinking about how her father alienated people due to his temper, but she never thought about that anger directed towards her. Maybe on a full re-read I'd pick up on it knowing her "truth" now, but that part was surprising. I thought it was one of those things where the father was pleasant towards her but no one else.

Szeth's POV answered a few questions, I now know where the "Last words" epigraphs are coming from, and I know who Szeth's master is. Shame I'm going to have to start remembering the name Taravangian and how to spell it. It seems like this King wants to have stability, but his own kind of stability. Interesting that Dalinar, who also wants stability, will somehow be undermining what Taravangian wants. And hey, the Chapter 4 epigraphs now makes sense. “I’m dying, aren’t I? Healer, why do you take my blood? Who is that beside you, with his head of lines? I can see a distant sun, dark and cold, shining in a black sky.”

Back to Shallan, nice that she's getting a few things fleshed out here, but I'm so let down that Jasnah stopped herself before explaining what she assumed about Shallan. I'm guessing it was that she assumed Shallan had more knowledge about the fabrials than she does. But hey, confirmation that Jasnah knows there's a connection between the spren and the Radiants and the type of Soulcasting that they're doing.

The real kicker was that the Parshmen are descendents of the Voidbringers. I thought the Voidbringers were the huge monsters so I wasn't even thinking they could be men, or Parshmen/Parshendi. It does make the prelude, talking about all the different colors of blood, have a bit more connection to the present day. And speaking of early mentions, Szeth first spoke of the Voidbringers as beings who could perfectly hold Stormlight, but his punishment demanding that they don't exist, while his honor demands they do. He will eventually figure it out, I wonder what happens to his Oathstone when he does. I still don't know the method by which the Parshmen "become" Parshendi, I still want it to be the gemhearts. I cannot confirm nor rule out the Ninja Turtle hypothesis unfortunately.

Syl doesn't like the Shardblade, that's interesting. I wonder if it's just because of how easy it makes killing, or if there's some deeper reason. I'm glad that Dalinar and Kaladin have come to some kind of agreement, but I really hoped for Dalinar to ask about the glowing. I guess I have to wait for that.

And Kaladin's crew wants to learn how to do what he does, I swear to the dead Almighty if Kaladin can teach them how to use Stormlight he's got to be a Herald. I love Sigzil wanting to do some testing, but I bet that information is getting sent back to Hoid if they're still attached in some way. Rock wanting to throw him off a cliff is fun, especially since Kaladin has proven that he can survive falls from great heights.

More Shallan! Again! Interestingly Shallan and Jasnah don't seem aware that it wasn't a Parshendi that killed King Gavilar. I am excited that all the people I suspect may be Heralds are converging on the Shattered Plains, even if Szeth has been sent to kill Dalinar. I'm predicting that he'll learn or see something that flips his worldview and he'll decided no to kill Dalinar.

I think I'm actually mad at Brandon for making the visions Dalinar sees just a tape recording, because some of the conversations lined up so well that there was really no reason to think that "Yes" wasn't an answer to the question of trusting Sadeas. That feels really cheap.

On the other hand, some information did come out of it. The Almight is dead at Odium's hand. He also mentions Cultivation, which I'm assuming is another Shard, though he claims to be the one to have created humanity. I am still holding on to Desolation being the other shard, but there's a lot that doesn't fit anymore with that. Desolation would not create humanity, at least by itself. Ruin and Preservation worked together to create life on Scadrial, so it could work I suppose.

Edit I just realized that Odium is actually just a word for general hatred, so Odium is a shard that Rayse currently holds, then there's Cultivation, and whatever shard the Almighty held. So three shards for Roshar is what it looks like, since the shard Odium is probably causing the Desolations.

And then Wit just happens to be waiting at the gate where Talenel'Elin shows up? And then died? I don't want him to have died, but that seems to be what I'm supposed to think since his shardblade didn't vanish. And why wouldn't he have an accent? Is this some magic of the Heralds? Does Wit have a loving Shardblade now? What a way to end a book.


Back to Mistborn for a book now!

pik_d fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Aug 15, 2023

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.
Hooray, you finished it! Interesting thoughts, as always.

pik_d posted:

Edit I just realized that Odium is actually just a word for general hatred, so Odium is a shard that Rayse currently holds, then there's Cultivation, and whatever shard the Almighty held. So three shards for Roshar is what it looks like, since the shard Odium is probably causing the Desolations.
You may want to go back and re-read your reactions to the Death Rattle Epigraphs again.

Also, if I were you, I'd modify your reading order and do Words of Radiance followed by Oathbringer next, then hit Alloy of Law and immediately follow it up with Bands of Mourning, which'll put you in a good place to then go to Arcanum Unbound, which contains Secret History, which you absolutely ought to read right after Bands of Mourning, and also all the short stories you'll have skipped over, and then you can go back on publication order.

You've just started one series and you're about to jump off and read the first book of an entirely unconnected trilogy and then not come back to that other trilogy for a while, it's gonna get a bit jarring I think.

CK07
Nov 8, 2005

bum bum BAA, bum bum, ba-bum ba baa..

CapnAndy posted:

Hooray, you finished it! Interesting thoughts, as always.

Also, if I were you, I'd modify your reading order and do Words of Radiance followed by Oathbringer next, then hit Alloy of Law and immediately follow it up with Bands of Mourning, which'll put you in a good place to then go to Arcanum Unbound, which contains Secret History, which you absolutely ought to read right after Bands of Mourning, and also all the short stories you'll have skipped over, and then you can go back on publication order.

You've just started one series and you're about to jump off and read the first book of an entirely unconnected trilogy and then not come back to that other trilogy for a while, it's gonna get a bit jarring I think.

Agreed. It sucks to go back to Stormlight after like five more books and be like "wait which bridgeman was that again? Where is anything?" Stormlight has the biggest mental load in terms of plot and characters by far, you'll get the most cohesive read out of it, without spoilers, by doing it the way listed above I think.

pik_d
Feb 24, 2006

follow the white dove





TRP Post of the Month October 2021
I'm doing the whole Cosmere in release order, so it'll be Alloy of Law, which should take a week at the most, then Shadow for Silence, then back to Words of Radiance. That wait won't be an issue since both combined should take 8-10 days. I feel like I need a mental rest from the constant "here's one more thing you don't know" that is Stormlight. Obviously Alloy of Law isn't part of Mistborn Era 1, but I understand the magic and everything so I'm guessing it'll feel more comfortable.

The gap between Words of Radiance and Oathbringer is more of an issue, so I'll decide then if I want to stick with my purely release order readthrough, we'll see.

socialsecurity
Aug 30, 2003

pik_d posted:


Back to Mistborn for a book now!


Shallan's stuff is interesting there are many many hidden hints and layers in every single one of her chapters, so most thing you things you would think are out of nowhere have some mentions before just carefully worded.

pik_d
Feb 24, 2006

follow the white dove





TRP Post of the Month October 2021

CapnAndy posted:

Hooray, you finished it! Interesting thoughts, as always.

You may want to go back and re-read your reactions to the Death Rattle Epigraphs again.

A few more of them make more sense to me now than before. A few of them are the people talking to those killing them for their words, like chapter 4 and 63, maybe 1 and 6 as well.

Chapter 11 “Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns.” feels like my theory of there being three shards for Roshar, and Rayse/Odium is "the Broken One" maybe?

Chapter 53 “He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!” reminds me of the fact that Dalinar's chapter symbol is a tower and crown on a shield, and Kaladin's is a spear. The "fallen title" could be the "Knights Radiant".

Chapter 54 “The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me.”, I noted when I read it, I think, that's literally just Talanel. I wonder now that I've seen him come back and proclaim his failure, if he was actually possessing most of these people when they died. Maybe his failure was that it wasn't enough.

Chapter 57 “I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw.” sounds like someone who knows that the people dying give some kind of help in their last words. Almost meta given how it was likely collected.

Chapter 60 “The death is my life, the strength becomes my weakness, the journey has ended.” is just the other side of the Knights Radiant's first Ideal

Chapter 64 “They come from the pit, two dead men, a heart in their hands, and I know that I have seen true glory.” Maybe this heart is a gemheart?

Chapter 69 “All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds.” feels similar to a few of the things that happened in this book, with certain betrayals and the way Kaladin decides to help those who haven't helped him first.

Then a lot of the rest feel more general "the end is coming" and "they're terrible monsters", which is more or less in tune with the conclusions that Dalinar and Jasnah have both come to. I have all these recorded, and I've already returned to them a few times, I'll do it again after each Stormlight book probably.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

pik_d posted:

Obviously Alloy of Law isn't part of Mistborn Era 1, but I understand the magic and everything so I'm guessing it'll feel more comfortable.
It is not. It is the first part of the second Mistborn trilogy, Mistborn Era 2. Hence my suggestion to deviate from publishing order.

It's published next because Sanderson originally thought it was gonna be a stand-alone novel bridging the gap between two eras.

pik_d
Feb 24, 2006

follow the white dove





TRP Post of the Month October 2021

CapnAndy posted:

It is not. It is the first part of the second Mistborn trilogy, Mistborn Era 2. Hence my suggestion to deviate from publishing order.

It's published next because Sanderson originally thought it was gonna be a stand-alone novel bridging the gap between two eras.

So what I'm going to do to keep Stormlight fresh in my mind is listen to the WoK chapters of the Stormpod podcast. When I finish the next book I'll listen to those chapters, and so on.

eke out
Feb 24, 2013



i think people are eager for WoR because it is an unbelievably hype book at times

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE

eke out posted:

i think people are eager for WoR because it is an unbelievably hype book at times

Probably this. Pik_d is an incredibly fast reader, even if they take two or three weeks to get back to Stormlight Archive instead of the 8-10 days they mentioned, it would be fine. After all, we waited years for Words of Radiance and managed to understand things, too. And I very much understand wanting to read pik_d's reaction to Words of Radiance, both because of how hype the book is, as well as to read their reactions to some of their very accurate predictions, and some of their very wrong predictions. But pik_d should read stuff the way they want to, and not feel pressured to change their reading order just to please us. Publication order is a fine way to go with Sanderson. I do understand a potential desire to skip some stuff to go from Words of Radiance to Oathbringer, which might well be Sanderson's best book. But again, that's a decision for pik_d to make, not us goons. We should be very grateful to the cool reactions Mordiceius, pik_d and others are posting, it's such a joy to read those.

socialsecurity
Aug 30, 2003

Era 2 Mistborn goes very fast yeah, All 4 Era 2 books are within 30k words of JUST BOOK 3 of Stormlight.

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NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



eke out posted:

i think people are eager for WoR because it is an unbelievably hype book at times

Although it's deliciously stretched out. From the outset you want Kal to just admit what he is, Shallan too, but somehow Brandon managed to make a whole book out of not delivering it until the very, very last second. And it worked perfectly.

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