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A second 9/11 would do it. The country was thoroughly united in wanting to punish arabs. You could tell us any drat thing and we'd believe it if you said terrorism. Like, if the Far Right attacked a joint session of Congress, everyone would behind a crackdown. So my plan for healthcare reform is this: There needs to be a big pandemic that forces the libs and chuds to use healthcare and get pissed off about health insurance, then -
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Aug 16, 2023 04:54
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I don’t think that’s true anymore actually. social media has made it different in a way I’m not going to work hard enough to explain right now but you kind of get that with the second half of your post too.
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Aug 16, 2023 05:10
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post hole digger posted:I don’t think that’s true anymore actually. social media has made it different in a way I’m not going to work hard enough to explain right now but you kind of get that with the second half of your post too. Yeah that's true. Everything is now a conspiracy or a distraction to get you to not think about a different conspiracy. Everyone can gin up their excuse for why Important Issue isn't a big deal and you're a bitch for even bringing it up and trying to change their behavior. I would say maybe mass violence would make people come together, but lol lmao mass shootings are normal. Maybe because most people don't personally have the gun in their face, so it isn't my problem and you're still a bitch. Americans are solipsists, if it didn't happen to them, it ain't happening.
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Aug 16, 2023 05:17
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post hole digger posted:I don’t think that’s true anymore actually. social media has made it different in a way I’m not going to work hard enough to explain right now but you kind of get that with the second half of your post too. i dont think social media has been the primary driver to change much of anything. everything is feedback loops. things dont have one cause, and the results in turn influence the causes. basically i think social media in the us has accelerated the already growing polarizations in society that were the result of processes that predate facebook
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Aug 16, 2023 05:18
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similarly, the system is not the sum of its parts, and you cant understand society by adding up every individual's preferences or w/e
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Aug 16, 2023 05:19
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fart simpson posted:i dont think social media has been the primary driver to change much of anything. everything is feedback loops. things dont have one cause, and the results in turn influence the causes. basically i think social media in the us has accelerated the already growing polarizations in society that were the result of processes that predate facebook ya I think that’s true. you’re already working harder than me to explain stuff so thanks.
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Aug 16, 2023 05:25
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fart simpson posted:i dont think social media has been the primary driver to change much of anything. everything is feedback loops. things dont have one cause, and the results in turn influence the causes. basically i think social media in the us has accelerated the already growing polarizations in society that were the result of processes that predate facebook i think this is true but i also think the rate of acceleration is immense. like attitude shifts that would have taken decades instead taking years, or even months, because those feedback loops are so much more immediate and accessible than they could have been otherwise. and social media is built to amplify the most caustic voices to the highest degree because eNgAgEmEnT
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Aug 16, 2023 06:58
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fart simpson posted:i mean like for an extreme example, look at the nazis in 1940s germany. you had very ordinary, normal people all throughout german society at least going along with that stuff. the state could ask random german men to go exterminate people and very few of them said no. once the war was over, how did they integrate all those people back into a "normal" society? because most of them didnt hold on to the nazi ideology post war. i mean the basic answer is the war fundamentally changed the reality that they lived in i guess, but you didnt get there by arguing with individual people this probably had something to do with that
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Aug 16, 2023 08:23
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ADINSX posted:this probably had something to do with that lol
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Aug 16, 2023 09:57
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ADINSX posted:this probably had something to do with that yes, that is how they did it after winning the war
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Aug 16, 2023 10:04
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post hole digger posted:lol no. go ask a few Trumpy people how they felt about Reagan, you might be surprised There was a whole media apparatus created with the sole purpose of taking people like that and turning them into hardcore right wingers over time
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Aug 16, 2023 12:58
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nobody tell them about operation paper clip
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Aug 16, 2023 12:58
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bump_fn posted:nobody tell them about operation paper clip what did clippy know and when did he know it
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Aug 16, 2023 14:29
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well-read undead posted:i think this is true but i also think the rate of acceleration is immense. like attitude shifts that would have taken decades instead taking years, or even months, because those feedback loops are so much more immediate and accessible than they could have been otherwise. and social media is built to amplify the most caustic voices to the highest degree because eNgAgEmEnT Adam Curtis's Hypernormalization doc has an interesting perspective on this, if you haven't seen it
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Aug 16, 2023 14:33
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ADINSX posted:this probably had something to do with that for real though the denazification of western germany was a joke
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Aug 16, 2023 14:35
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goblin week posted:for real though the denazification of western germany was a joke We did "Nazi" that coming!!!
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Aug 16, 2023 14:44
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goblin week posted:for real though the denazification of western germany was a joke look there is even a picture of them taking down swastikas what more did you want???
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Aug 16, 2023 15:25
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there's more nazis in america than germany and the country overall is way more honest about its past than we are
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Aug 16, 2023 15:39
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i don’t know if the former is true. there are an awful lot of nazis in germany today
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Aug 16, 2023 15:45
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social media definitely accelerated polarization but it didn't cause it. it has been increasing basically since 1980, enhanced by republican opposition to bill clinton and then democrat opposition to george w bush, then republicans opposing obama (which is really what set off the present divide) you could say that social media turbocharged the process, but it absolutely didn't start it
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Aug 16, 2023 15:46
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PokeJoe posted:I'm just so tired of all this politics some people call it politics, i call it politricks
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Aug 16, 2023 15:48
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Beeftweeter posted:social media definitely accelerated polarization but it didn't cause it. it has been increasing basically since 1980, enhanced by republican opposition to bill clinton and then democrat opposition to george w bush, then republicans opposing obama (which is really what set off the present divide) Rick perlsteins work is pretty interesting from this pov. nixonland lays out a ton of examples of stuff like this from 65 onward and how tense and divided the mid 60s and early 70s were. if you really want to dig past the 20th century you can make the case that a lot of it really stems from reconstruction and the failure to basically hang every confederate soldier above the rank of colonel.
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Aug 16, 2023 16:04
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:go ask a few Trumpy people how they felt about Reagan, you might be surprised that might be a regional thing. he’s always been pretty popular in california.
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Aug 16, 2023 16:08
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Truman Peyote posted:"material conditions" doesn't mean "poor people turn right-wing." it means that peoples politics flow from their relationship to capital, and in that theory, the petit bourgeois owners of car dealerships and dental practices are exactly who you would expect to go fascist first. they own significant capital, but are most precarious among those who do.
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Aug 16, 2023 16:12
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post hole digger posted:Rick perlsteins work is pretty interesting from this pov. nixonland lays out a ton of examples of stuff like this from 65 onward and how tense and divided the mid 60s and early 70s were. if you really want to dig past the 20th century you can make the case that a lot of it really stems from reconstruction and the failure to basically hang every confederate soldier above the rank of colonel. yeah, there was some pretty bitter polarization around that time. watergate caused a huge schism by severely weakening the republican party. nixon's prosecution was for things that most people readily agreed were criminal; that was incredibly important as we were able to avoid the normalization of clearly criminal behavior that has stemmed from simply indicting trump (or impeaching him). as a result people unquestioningly accepted jimmy carter's victory as legitimate but the problem was jimmy carter. even though he was supposed to restore a sense of normality to the office, people really didn't like him and viewed him as ineffectual (even if this was not entirely his fault). opposition to him, his policies and restructuring of the remnants of the republican party led to the rise of reagan, who along with christian fundamentalists and republicans in the legislature regularly demonized their political enemies. that would lead to increased polarization following the first bush administration, which then increased with the election of clinton. it snowballed from there
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Aug 16, 2023 16:17
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:You should go tell the internet leftists that he’s telling you that right now
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Aug 16, 2023 16:46
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Beeftweeter posted:the turn to authoritarianism isn't really unexpected. as i said in the other post So like I’m not following if you’re talking about poor conservatives or rich conservatives but it seems almost all social progress permitted in my lifetime had to have some economic benefit to entice rich people to sign off on it. Anything gay: Being allowed to blatantly advertise to a dual income no children demographic without a politically empowered religious demographic making a stink about it. Gender equality across professions: Broadening the talent supply to meet demand, lowering wages. Bonus: Women make less in the same jobs! Immigration: Expansion of labor pools. Bonus: With people who have had to settle for less! Workplace diversity: Diverse workplaces are less likely to unionize. I have a feeling that I’ll be given unpleasant news but I can’t really think of any economic benefits to women’s suffrage, the 1969 civil rights act, or the sexual revolution.
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Aug 16, 2023 20:06
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Internet Old One posted:I have a feeling that I’ll be given unpleasant news but I can’t really think of any economic benefits to women’s suffrage, the 1969 civil rights act, or the sexual revolution.
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Aug 16, 2023 20:07
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qirex posted:this is why modern "conservatives" are still mad about them they're still mad about all the other ones, too
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Aug 16, 2023 20:13
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Internet Old One posted:the 1969 civil rights act afaik the legacy of slavery and then jim crow, segregation, lynching, were increasingly becoming an international embarrassment to america and american capitalism and making it harder for other countries and people to even pretend to take us seriously when advocating for resisting communism (i.e., ensuring increasing profits and power of american companies everywhere possible)
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Aug 16, 2023 20:29
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wrong thread
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Aug 16, 2023 20:35
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Lysidas posted:afaik the legacy of slavery and then jim crow, segregation, lynching, were increasingly becoming an international embarrassment to america and american capitalism and making it harder for other countries and people to even pretend to take us seriously when advocating for resisting communism (i.e., ensuring increasing profits and power of american companies everywhere possible) was just reading last night about how the US had to tread very carefully when participating in the nuremburg trials as that's when 'crimes against humanity' was first made a term, and there were legitimate concerns we'd be brought up on those charges due to our persistent segregation and racism in the 40s
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Aug 16, 2023 20:40
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Jonny 290 posted:was just reading last night about how the US had to tread very carefully when participating in the nuremburg trials as that's when 'crimes against humanity' was first made a term, and there were legitimate concerns we'd be brought up on those charges due to our persistent segregation and racism in the 40s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bamber_Bridge US troops stationed in England during the war demanded the British also do apartheid in their pubs. Then the military cops did the usual cop thing and black soldiers mutinied. Only the black soldiers were punished and none of the MP lol. 
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Aug 16, 2023 20:47
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lol https://twitter.com/FormulaGe/status/1691539549841772544 https://twitter.com/thekillers/status/1691561689882484827
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Aug 16, 2023 22:57
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mediaphage posted:lol
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Aug 16, 2023 23:12
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Internet Old One posted:So like I’m not following if you’re talking about poor conservatives or rich conservatives but it seems almost all social progress permitted in my lifetime had to have some economic benefit to entice rich people to sign off on it. in that sentence i was referring to the conservative elite, and that is from their perspective, not mine. there are usually economic benefits to most social progress (even if it isn't immediately obvious). the point was more that the social cost, to them, outweighs any perceived economic benefit because a lot of them are already astronomically wealthy e: i kinda just banged that previous post out without proofreading it or anything and yeah it's a bit unclear. sorry about that, it turned into a bit of a rant Beeftweeter fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Aug 17, 2023 |
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Aug 17, 2023 00:50
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Beeftweeter posted:and that is from their perspective, not mine. oh man I should use this when I'm wrong in future posts
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Aug 17, 2023 07:02
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Ruffian Price posted:oh man I should use this when I'm wrong in future posts lol imagine being wrong in posts
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Aug 17, 2023 07:49
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unthinkable
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Aug 17, 2023 15:04
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Ruffian Price posted:oh man I should use this when I'm wrong in future posts i mean i did say "to them", "in their view" etc several times. just clarifying e: it is a generalization about a particular set of a specific group though so yeah, not universally applicable Beeftweeter fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Aug 17, 2023 |
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