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Why do you care? It's between two people that aren't you and it doesn't affect you at all.
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Aug 18, 2023 13:09
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Ferdinand the Bull posted:Why do you care? It's between two people that aren't you and it doesn't affect you at all. Is this really the hill you want to die on?
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Aug 18, 2023 13:20
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Carthag Tuek posted:idk but they probably have a lot to say about it on that ~Kindred Spirits~ forum someone cited on wikipedia My curiosity got the better of me and this was the most recent post on their forum: 
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Aug 18, 2023 13:29
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Yeah no honestly I am not willing to stand up for the right to be gross and sleep with your siblings. Yuck
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Aug 18, 2023 13:31
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Judgy Fucker posted:My curiosity got the better of me and this was the most recent post on their forum: lol
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Aug 18, 2023 13:45
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Ferdinand the Bull posted:Yeah no honestly I am not willing to stand up for the right to be gross and sleep with your siblings. Too late lol
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Aug 18, 2023 14:12
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Saladman posted:What’s the "it’s not pedophilia it’s Hebephilia" catch phrase for the pro-incest team? Ferdinand the Bull posted:Tbf same sex relationships don't provoke the negative results of incest, inbred children. It's just weird, and weird should be acceptable.
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Aug 18, 2023 14:18
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Angepain posted:Pleasantly surprised that the phrase about scottish showers is about weather and not hygiene No it is. It’s when you take a hot shower and then finish it off with an ice cold rinse. It was actually popularized in the James Bond novels as James Bond’s preferred type of shower where it was referred to as that and i guess the French may have just read those and really focused on the shower passages BIG FLUFFY DOG fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Aug 18, 2023 |
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Aug 18, 2023 14:21
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I don't think that's the sort of thing that you can particularly form a philosophically isolated totally logical or scientific basis for. I think there was some report that first generation incest doesn't create that much in the way of mutations, but if you're fine with it in the first generation incest, it's harder to prevent the next generation. On a personal level, it's easy to see how there might be hosed up power dynamics or some kind of implicit betrayal of trust with couplings between relatives who knew eachother since childhood. And on a societal level, it's better to socially foce people to look farther afield for somebody to couple with instead of settling with literally one of the first people you've ever met and staying insular. OwlFancier posted:between siblings I don't remember how the math worked, but the Hapsburgs didn't marry sibling-to-sibling, but the way they married cousin-to-cousin eventually produced couplings that were mathematically more related than direct siblings. Actual sibling-to-sibling marriage between royals I think you have to go outside Europe to find, like in Egypt and Persia. BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:No it is. It’s when you take a hot shower and then finish it off with an ice cold rinse. It was actually popularized in the James Bond novels as James Bond’s preferred type of shower where it was referred to as that and i guess the French may have just read those and really focused on the shower passages Well, at least it's not a sex thing.
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Aug 18, 2023 15:12
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Yeah my understanding is one generation of close incest is more or less fine, see most egyptian dynasties Everyone’s favourite King of Spain wasnt brother-sister, rather he resulted from more than a century of cousins and uncle/nieces Still weird to want to gently caress your family tho Also, iirc incest in Egypt is overplayed. The kings had lots of wives so the children would often not be the result of close family. Some mummies have dna tested positive for brother/sister however so it happened. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Aug 18, 2023 |
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Aug 18, 2023 15:16
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Going back to the map, I wonder how many legal places are in that situation because they don't have any laws against it, rather than having laws saying basically "it's fine".
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Aug 18, 2023 15:39
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also in this situation only I gotta hand it to the Saudis
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Aug 18, 2023 15:40
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So, you made me check the actual incest situation in Germany, and it specifically defines incest as penis in vagina sex between close relatives. That is why the map stated that gay sex is ok, it doesn't count as sex for those purposes. And if the perpetrator is a minor it is "Straffrei" meaning that it is technically illegal but the prosecutions are not allowed to charge anybody. So that part is also misleading. Also, German Wikipedia states that Austria and Switzerland have the same penis in vagina requirement as Germany. Meaning that map is kinda questionable.
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Aug 18, 2023 15:46
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VictualSquid posted:And if the perpetrator is a minor it is "Straffrei" meaning that it is technically illegal but the prosecutions are not allowed to charge anybody.  I don't doubt you, but...what's the point of outlawing something if you're not allowed to prosecute it?
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Aug 18, 2023 15:47
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Ordnung. It’s a real german quarrel
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Aug 18, 2023 16:03
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Judgy Fucker posted:
I'm not familiar with German law, but it is likely similar to the concept of a "Probation Before Judgement" in American law. Basically, you get a "get out of jail free card" for a crime - but only if you don't reoffend and it isn't part of a larger series of crimes. In the U.S., an example would be: - You get a traffic charge for driving without a license. - You go to court and argue some reason why you couldn't get one. - The judge doesn't think it is entirely reasonable enough to justify doing it, but it is a factor and you have no criminal history. - You get a Probation Before Judgement, where the charge is entered on your record, but no judgement is entered. - If you go X years (usually 5) without reoffending or being convicted of any crime, then the charge drops off like it never happened. Some crimes have mandatory PBJs for a first offense, so you can't levy any criminal penalty on them if it they also have no other criminal history. For family court crimes or crimes involving minors, you can also use it to justify some kind of social services intervention without giving someone a criminal record. Some states do a similar thing with drug laws, where they make it a civil penalty and you can't go to jail for possession or get a record for it, but you will get cited and fined. And if you are on probation, then you can get your probation revoked for possessing drugs, even if it isn't a criminal offense. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Aug 18, 2023 |
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Aug 18, 2023 16:04
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Judgy Fucker posted:
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Aug 18, 2023 16:05
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Also this thread has sent me on a deep dive YouTube sesh of roller coaster history bc I had never really considered why the gently caress it’s montagne russe but also amyerikanskiye gorki It’s bc the french referred to the sledding ice constructions and the russians were in turn inspired by the train-coasters in the US inspired by France, as you’d expect, but drat YouTube loves theme parks
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Aug 18, 2023 16:12
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There was an interesting lecture I saw a few years ago which talked about atheism in medieval europe, and one of the things that came up in it was that "the atheist" was a sort of stock character in medieval literature with certain stereotypical attributes. One of those was being horny for their sisters, and frequently using the argument of "it's only wrong because god says so, and god's not real, so..." Atheists could theoretically form logical arguments against things like murder or theft, but the only reason not to do incest was God's Commandments, so incest was inevitable when an atheist was involved, which I think speaks to anxiety on the part of the writer that they couldn't entirely explain why something they innately knew to be wrong, was wrong (not having the arguments of power dynamics, abuse or genetics ready to hand). Or that they were really horny for incest porn and needed to put an atheist in the story to have it work. Also, Atheists? Vulnerable to both lightning and thunder damage, it's true. The Lecture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb5mYqnKFlI
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Aug 18, 2023 16:37
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Judgy Fucker posted:
Because minors aren't mature enough to fully understand the rules and criminal law is the wrong tool. If there's a problem, a child doesn't need to be put in front of a judge, it needs the help of social services. FWIW, there is a pretty solid consensus among the German law community that the prohibition of incest has no place in criminal law. Criminal law is there to avert harm or allow restitution, it is not supposed to enforce societal taboos. Society (and how humans work) is plenty effective at doing that on its own.
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Aug 18, 2023 17:12
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I’m begging y’all to please get off the incest topic
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Aug 18, 2023 17:18
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Guavanaut posted:It means you can legally mandate that child protection/social services get involved. Age of criminal responsibility in Germany is 14 but family services may intervene with children below that age. that map has a wild diference between america and europe which i assume must at least part be due to terminology. i mean, if i read it right, a 1 year old can be criminally responsible for something in say oregon, but i hope theyre not gonna put them in jail
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Aug 18, 2023 17:24
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feller posted:I’m begging y’all to please get off the incest topic for the love of god, please
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Aug 18, 2023 17:31
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i say swears online posted:for the love of god, please God is married to his sister.
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Aug 18, 2023 17:33
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Carthag Tuek posted:that map has a wild diference between america and europe which i assume must at least part be due to terminology. i mean, if i read it right, a 1 year old can be criminally responsible for something in say oregon, but i hope theyre not gonna put them in jail That one year old is going to the electric chair and it knows what it did *fireworks boom, star spangled banner rings out*
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Aug 18, 2023 17:34
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feller posted:I’m begging y’all to please get off the incest topic I don't know about you, but I'm not getting off. But I would like to change the subject to historical travel logistics.   
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Aug 18, 2023 17:38
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:That one year old is going to the electric chair and it knows what it did american exceptionalism  actually afaict the us is the only nation in the world that will hold someone younger than 6 years old criminally responsible, assuming the dark red dot in the caribbean is the usvie: wait no thats a middle red in the caribbean Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Aug 18, 2023 |
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Aug 18, 2023 17:39
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You can really see the early turnpike and river networks there.
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Aug 18, 2023 17:40
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Minenfeld! posted:You can really see the early turnpike and river networks there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F42qmFHNM-M
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Aug 18, 2023 17:43
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Judgy Fucker posted:
In German law it is somewhat common and mostly happens as part of phasing out some old law. Especially if a recently elected governing party promised to make it legal and chickens out. Most famous "Straffrei" thing in Germany is Pot.
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Aug 18, 2023 17:47
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:
By the Roman era it wasn't just Egyptian royals who practiced sibling marriage - it was frequent amongst the lower classes in Egypt too. Turns out that marrying your kids to each other gets you off the hook of paying a dowry.
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Aug 18, 2023 17:57
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Numerical Anxiety posted:By the Roman era it wasn't just Egyptian royals who practiced sibling marriage - it was frequent amongst the lower classes in Egypt too. Turns out that marrying your kids to each other gets you off the hook of paying a dowry. cousin-marriages were also big among western old money until say a century ago or so when i guess media made it more noticeable. basically the same reason, it avoids splitting the estate too much (cf also royalty but instead power)
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Aug 18, 2023 18:11
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Carthag Tuek posted:that map has a wild diference between america and europe which i assume must at least part be due to terminology. i mean, if i read it right, a 1 year old can be criminally responsible for something in say oregon, but i hope theyre not gonna put them in jail In Nevada (and I assume most/all other US states), kids who do illegal stuff aren't typically punished as criminals. They are instead considered "delinquents in need of supervision" and get social services/probation supervision/juvenile detention/etc. Kids who are under 8 in Nevada can't be punished at all, as delinquents or as criminals. The upper limit for the juvenile system is typically 18, although for a few serious crimes kids can be punished as adults as young as 16, and for murder as young as 14. In practice if a kid is below ~14 they're just going to get social services without further punishment - teenagers are more of a case by case basis as far as probation/kiddie jail.
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Aug 18, 2023 18:48
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https://www.theonion.com/judge-rules-white-girl-will-be-tried-as-black-adult-1819594949
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Aug 18, 2023 18:55
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Not trying to restart this whole convo, just wanted to thank you for introducing me to a fantastic piece of historical trivia.
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Aug 18, 2023 19:52
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its basically that old "if i wasnt afraid of hell, i would have killed so many people" chestnut lol
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Aug 18, 2023 20:03
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Yeah, it's just a really loving funny version of it.
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Aug 18, 2023 20:12
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Randarkman posted:Also, moving away from the Middle East, but I'm not sure a continent requires geopolitical coherence, would you say Asia is a lot more coherent and unitary than Africa is? No one seems to dispute that as a continent. Though of course the truth is that in terms of actual continents and landmasses, neither Europe nor Asia are separate continents. I wish I could dispute it, who do I write to? People usually part out the Middle East and occasionally Central Asia, but South+South East+East Asia are treated monolithically far too commonly. Outside of topics like... I dunno, the non-Christian world in Early Modern European literature, or the establishment of spice trading posts or something, it's almost never accurate to group them that way. For a region that has by itself held the majority of humanity's population for basically (literally?) the entirety of recorded history, "Asia" as a concept has done a lot of harm and I wish it would go away.
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Aug 18, 2023 20:17
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Ponsonby Britt posted:In Nevada (and I assume most/all other US states), kids who do illegal stuff aren't typically punished as criminals. They are instead considered "delinquents in need of supervision" and get social services/probation supervision/juvenile detention/etc. Kids who are under 8 in Nevada can't be punished at all, as delinquents or as criminals. The upper limit for the juvenile system is typically 18, although for a few serious crimes kids can be punished as adults as young as 16, and for murder as young as 14. In practice if a kid is below ~14 they're just going to get social services without further punishment - teenagers are more of a case by case basis as far as probation/kiddie jail. Should be noted though that juvie still has all the problems of the US Justice system, eg black boys are far more likely to have to do time for what would get white kids a slap on the wrist, full of abuse, funnel already underprivileged kids into further crime as adults where they will probably receive harsher sentences, nothing shocking I expect Case in point: four kids, all smoking weed, broke into and stole our car in may. They got pulled over after some joyriding for the broken window and that was that. The two black kids were delivered to the jailhouse to await their parents and charged. The two white kids got driven home. And technically one of the black kids was the guy who actually broke into the car and drilled the ignition so ok, harsher charge is technically fair, but gently caress, I’m just glad we got our car back and don’t think some dumb kids should be charged at all. I’m thankful they didn’t get loving blown away by a swat team Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Aug 18, 2023 |
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Aug 18, 2023 20:21
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Kenning posted:Yeah, it's just a really loving funny version of it. Also worryingly realistic given porno trends in the last few years.
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Aug 18, 2023 20:50
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