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Soricidus posted:We’re a species that will literally set fire to each other over minor differences in the interpretation of old books, caring about football barely registers on the scale of human weirdness Sectarian violence and football, an exciting 241 package!
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Aug 21, 2023 10:58
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I've not been posting much recently because I've started a new job. It involves going over to Northern Ireland pretty frequently and after a few days between Belfast and rural Antrim what the actual gently caress are you guys on over there. Every bloody town decked out like the gaudiest coronation party going, union jacks on every lamppost, actual UVF flags flying every few feet. And the weirdest bit is everyone's just going about the place without batting an eye. Absolutely insane corner of the country.
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Aug 21, 2023 11:08
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My uncle was from rural Antrim and all I know is that place is cursed beyond measure. A place abandoned by God and yet they just worship him harder for it.
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Aug 21, 2023 11:09
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ThomasPaine posted:I've not been posting much recently because I've started a new job. It involves going over to Northern Ireland pretty frequently and after a few days between Belfast and rural Antrim what the actual gently caress are you guys on over there. Every bloody town decked out like the gaudiest coronation party going, union jacks on every lamppost, actual UVF flags flying every few feet. And the weirdest bit is everyone's just going about the place without batting an eye. Absolutely insane corner of the country. Yeah I thought that when I moved here but you get used to it. Let the prods have their Union jacks if they want. It’s a handy way for non headbangers to spot dodgy areas too
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Aug 21, 2023 11:22
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https://twitter.com/lowkey0nline/status/1693568766859223340?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q UK politics, everyone.
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Aug 21, 2023 11:23
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smellmycheese posted:Yeah I thought that when I moved here but you get used to it. Let the prods have their Union jacks if they want. It’s a handy way for non headbangers to spot dodgy areas too The thing that struck me is that a lot of these little towns are otherwise very pleasant.* Like I'm sitting in a perfectly nice cafe having a cup of tea with all the old dears, and you look out the window and it's all 'NO SURRENDER, ULSTER IS BRITISH, GOD BLESS KING CHARLIE'. One Catholic guy I was speaking to seemed to think it was mostly just a handful of VERY enthusiastic lunatics these days and most people didn't really care, but you could have fooled me. I've seen flag shaggers in the rest of the UK but gently caress me that's something else. *Many also look very well to do, and I'm pretty sure you could write a thesis on that - I'm sure many people already have.
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Aug 21, 2023 11:31
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I agree. We live in a lovely little village in Antrim that is solidly middle class “respectable” people but every summer the town prods insist on draping it in tacky poo poo that makes it look naff. It baffles me as an English person that they want to make the place look like poo poo, but that’s DUP voters for you.
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Aug 21, 2023 12:03
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The parts of Norn Iron allowed to the real headmelters on the Prod side have an element of very unique specialness about them, aye. As you say it's especially weird because outside of those specific issues they can be absolutely lovely places, or they'll have a largely normal Main Street but some deeply cursed estates around the place.Guavanaut posted:Thinking further on it, I think there should be a mechanism for review of scientific claims made by so-called expert witnesses at trial that is closer to academic peer review and much less reliant on the defendant getting their own experts to state other nonsense even more confidently, because reading further (cw: for graphic descriptions) a lot of the expert claims made at the Letby trial were based on pet theories, hunches, and things that are a lot closer to “I saw Goody Proctor with the Devil!” than anything that would pass academic review. Nominally the idea is that if you have conflicting testimony from expert witnesses, the first port of call is to compare their credentials and careers. It's why on the telly the lawyer starts out by establishing just that, asking the expert witnesses on your Uvula Removal Killer prosecution to be like "I got my doctorate from Princeton and have worked as a uvula inspector for 30 years.". Then if the other guy says "Actually sometimes a person's uvula can teleport itself into space" the fact that they only got their doctorate from Topeka Puppy And Degree Mill and have had a career as a School Litter Tray Changer makes their side much weaker. And ultimately the point of a jury trial is that the jury is supposed to be capable of weighing difficult factors like this, the jury itself IS the mechanism for determining the solution to this problem. I'm not sure how else you would do it because once you start bringing in a court imposition of anything like that you are biasing the case in a way that's not supposed to be done. If one side has an outlandish claim to make about how an event really took place they're allowed to do so, and the authority of the expert witness is the basis for how seriously that is taken. I guess you would set up a connection with a recognized expert body like the local uni or professional group, and rather than both sides getting their own expert witnesses, either can request said body analyze the facts in dispute and present their findings as, like, a 'neutral' witness called by the court proper rather than by either side, and then open to mutual cross examination?
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Aug 21, 2023 12:14
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ThomasPaine posted:I've not been posting much recently because I've started a new job. It involves going over to Northern Ireland pretty frequently and after a few days between Belfast and rural Antrim what the actual gently caress are you guys on over there. Every bloody town decked out like the gaudiest coronation party going, union jacks on every lamppost, actual UVF flags flying every few feet. And the weirdest bit is everyone's just going about the place without batting an eye. Absolutely insane corner of the country. That is what insecurity and a Bunker Mentality looks like in real life. They created a state with a certain religion/tribe at the top... things changed.  Republicans can do the Fleg!!! stuff as well but it's much less common. I'm a Co. Antrim lad and it's pretty much my normality. 
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Aug 21, 2023 12:15
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Now imagining a kaiserreich situation where the rest of the UK falls apart and somehow NI ends up as the seat of the british government in exile, and then everybody dies in a flag singularity
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Aug 21, 2023 12:22
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Antrim Goon Fleg Meet-up!!!!!!
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Aug 21, 2023 12:25
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I’ve been here 5 years now, after 20 years in London and it truly is a land of contrasts. That Spider sense, eyes in the back of your head thing that you get from living in London very rarely goes off here , even in the middle of the city or supposedly shady places like the Shankhill. The headbangers tend to keep themselves to their little local patches. I remember the first couple of times I visited NI I got that shock factor of all the Flegs and murals but I barely notice them now, but it really really doesn’t help peoples first impressions of the place.
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Aug 21, 2023 12:30
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I've never been to Norn Iron but something that strikes me as (doubly) odd about the sort of (capital P)rotestant and/or (capital U)nionist types of the "King Charles murals and union flag bunting" types is that it seems they are vehemently and passionately identifying with an identity that doesn't really exist? It's a bit like modern expat enclaves or certain BOTs like Gibraltar which are performatively More British Than Britain. They adopt a sort of picture-postcard version of Britishness that makes the place look like an airport gift shop full of Union Jack mugs, plushie lion beefeaters and model London buses. But that sort of Britishness isn't really a thing on GB (outside carefully permitted things like royal births/deaths, footie and War Christmas). And some of the NI Unionists who lean really hard into the British Identity One and Indivisible must surely have a hard landing if ever they realise how little NI figures in the minds of anyone this side of the Irish Sea. Or even that most of the political system here is actively hostile to the place. It must be a bit like those ardent Quebecoise who feel they are French People, mind, body, soul, culture and language, and when they go to France they realise that most French people don't really conceive of there being a bunch of French brothers and sisterd over the Atlantic and think they speak a weird version of French...or even worse just treat them as if they were Canadians
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Aug 21, 2023 12:33
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Yeah as you point out it's not limited to Brits, expats just go insane trying to replicate an imagined homeland (see also : Boston Irish ). Not Aussies for some reason though, they kept the racism but went in a different cultural direction by dialling the laddishness up to 11 and otherwise adopting some kind of cheerful nihilism. Must be all the sun
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Aug 21, 2023 12:38
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The behaviour of Unionists can be quite easily compared to the behaviour of Tories when it comes to all the “woke” horseshit. Despite having had their hands on the levers of power for centuries and having almost total control they are wracked with paranoia about a creeping existential threat. Thus they have to performatively beat their chests, fly their flags and burn their bonfires to assert dominance
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Aug 21, 2023 12:49
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BalloonFish posted:It must be a bit like those ardent Quebecoise who feel they are French People, mind, body, soul, culture and language, and when they go to France they realise that most French people don't really conceive of there being a bunch of French brothers and sisterd over the Atlantic and think they speak a weird version of French...or even worse just treat them as if they were Canadians Canadian living in the UK here. The French Canadian situation is totally different. Most don’t actually identify with France as a country much at all; they view themselves as a distinct group in pretty much every way and haven’t harboured any actual interest in belonging to a French state for centuries. In my experience, they also often feel neutral to negative about French people because they’re very much aware of being viewed as bumpkin curiosities by them.
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Aug 21, 2023 13:02
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Give it another couple of hundred years and it should be gone, something for the history books or set up as a tourist attraction in Cullybackey/Bushmills.
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Aug 21, 2023 13:04
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Ms Adequate posted:Nominally the idea is that if you have conflicting testimony from expert witnesses, the first port of call is to compare their credentials and careers. It's why on the telly the lawyer starts out by establishing just that, asking the expert witnesses on your Uvula Removal Killer prosecution to be like "I got my doctorate from Princeton and have worked as a uvula inspector for 30 years.". Then if the other guy says "Actually sometimes a person's uvula can teleport itself into space" the fact that they only got their doctorate from Topeka Puppy And Degree Mill and have had a career as a School Litter Tray Changer makes their side much weaker. Some sources have claimed that the defence didn't even apply for allocated expert witness funding properly. It seems like more of a 'thing that sometimes happens' than a smoking gun, but it's strange. Meanwhile the prosecution had a bunch of apparently very qualified people in who were unaware that you can get insulin autoantibodies in premature babies in cases where synthetic insulin was used for gestational diabetes, or that babies get severe reflux in response to feeding sometimes. It reminds me a lot of the hair cases, because you had state prosecutors able to get fancy doctors from the Institute of Forensic Phrenology to say that of course the hair matches and an overworked public defender can only get a social studies undergrad to say "uh, hair strand analysis is, like, racist" and then the jury sides with the prosecution because of the perceived qualification level and CSI:Miami reasons. (Even though the social studies major is in this case in the right.) Ms Adequate posted:And ultimately the point of a jury trial is that the jury is supposed to be capable of weighing difficult factors like this, the jury itself IS the mechanism for determining the solution to this problem. Or just fix the funding and workload bias. Ms Adequate posted:I guess you would set up a connection with a recognized expert body like the local uni or professional group, and rather than both sides getting their own expert witnesses, either can request said body analyze the facts in dispute and present their findings as, like, a 'neutral' witness called by the court proper rather than by either side, and then open to mutual cross examination?
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Aug 21, 2023 13:04
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MeinPanzer posted:Canadian living in the UK here. The French Canadian situation is totally different. Most don’t actually identify with France as a country much at all; they view themselves as a distinct group in pretty much every way and haven’t harboured any actual interest in belonging to a French state for centuries. In my experience, they also often feel neutral to negative about French people because they’re very much aware of being viewed as bumpkin curiosities by them.  I defer to your greater knowledge/experience - that was picked up via anecdotes when visiting Quebec with some people from Toronto during a brief stay in Canada in 2007 so was either inaccurate or atypical.
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Aug 21, 2023 13:16
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Starmans legs are registered with the FA as lethal goal scoring traction engines https://twitter.com/CeilNoyle/status/1693591460115812654?t=FAYLm2zXkShuqog8mnWHSA&s=19
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Aug 21, 2023 13:19
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Darth Walrus posted:https://twitter.com/lowkey0nline/status/1693568766859223340?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q The fire brigade should be made to apologise to him (like with Lucy Letby)
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Aug 21, 2023 13:21
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Sadly he was disqualified from football after spotting an alpaca off the pitch and turning his legs on the poor creature.
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Aug 21, 2023 13:23
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BalloonFish posted:I've never been to Norn Iron but something that strikes me as (doubly) odd about the sort of (capital P)rotestant and/or (capital U)nionist types of the "King Charles murals and union flag bunting" types is that it seems they are vehemently and passionately identifying with an identity that doesn't really exist? Having grown up in a Loyalist area in the 80s/90s it's a very weird performative Britishness that's more about having an identity that isn't Irish. For the most part they don't particularly care for the British except for some Scots, and are often at odds with modern British values like LGBTQ+ rights and women's rights. It's a culture mostly based around fear and revisionist history. As Irish unification moves inevitably closer they fear that their culture (such as it is) will be eradicated, because that's exactly what they did to Nationalists in Northern Ireland since 1921. There's some historical basis behind it as many Protestants didn't fare well in the early years of Irish independence, but modern Ireland is completely different and much less under the influence of the Catholic church.
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Aug 21, 2023 15:18
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MeinPanzer posted:Canadian living in the UK here. The French Canadian situation is totally different. Most don’t actually identify with France as a country much at all; they view themselves as a distinct group in pretty much every way and haven’t harboured any actual interest in belonging to a French state for centuries. In my experience, they also often feel neutral to negative about French people because they’re very much aware of being viewed as bumpkin curiosities by them. Seconding this - grew up on the border of Ireland and lived in Canada for two years. Every person from Quebec I met or talked to never cared about a connection with France. I ended up questioning this a bit because Quebec independence makes less sense geographically without some strong international connection. Funnily enough, there is currently an active minor political party on the provincial level that advocates that Quebec should be annexed by the USA and become the 51st state. There is no such political party which advocates the same from France. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parti_51
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Aug 21, 2023 16:12
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Skull Servant posted:Funnily enough, there is currently an active minor political party on the provincial level that advocates that Quebec should be annexed by the USA and become the 51st state. There is no such political party which advocates the same from France. I guess they'll have to change their name if the US gets any other new states before them. or they'll just demand to be slotted in between the others to save on logo design costs
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Aug 21, 2023 16:23
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Darth Walrus posted:https://twitter.com/lowkey0nline/status/1693568766859223340?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q I used to go to events where that guy was mc'ing. I sort of did a double take seeing him posted here after so many years. I feel old now.
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Aug 21, 2023 16:26
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Again Lowkey is one of the best political artists out there, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNqum-_5RhY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztUamrChczQ Dare you to watch either of these without crying and still claim you have a soul.
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Aug 21, 2023 16:29
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Back when I watched him he must have been just starting out. I do remember him having more thoughtful/political lyrics than your usual mc but I didn't realise he had got big. Good luck to him.
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Aug 21, 2023 16:32
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Lowkey and I believe also Akala were both on the ground at Grenfell the day it was burning.
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Aug 21, 2023 16:34
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smellmycheese posted:The behaviour of Unionists can be quite easily compared to the behaviour of Tories when it comes to all the “woke” horseshit. Despite having had their hands on the levers of power for centuries and having almost total control they are wracked with paranoia about a creeping existential threat. Thus they have to performatively beat their chests, fly their flags and burn their bonfires to assert dominance you're talking about loyalists, not unionists republicans also behave that way just with different flags, nationalists just have a voting preference
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Aug 21, 2023 17:31
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man the mouth frothing on call in radio today about the letby case an bringing back the death penalty/forcing offenders to attend sentencing NEVER TURNED UP?!?!? THEY WONT TO WHEEL ER IN IN A STRAIGHT JACKET LIKE OLD CANERBALLS LECTURE WIV ER EYES HELD OPENE WIV STICKS SO SHE CARNT LOOK AWAY 
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Aug 21, 2023 17:34
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Failed Imagineer posted:Yeah as you point out it's not limited to Brits, expats just go insane trying to replicate an imagined homeland Clyde Radcliffe posted:It's a culture mostly based around fear and revisionist history. Many even look and act like a DUP man attempting a Dutch accent too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jetFh2fYNyI Maybe it's like carcinization, where multiple distinct species evolve into the form of crabs, but it's isolated groups of right wing Protestants evolving towards a platonic form of Jim Allister.
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Aug 21, 2023 17:38
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everybody's distant forebears did some bad poo poo, don't create a culture out of it, be nice instead votail crispix party
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Aug 21, 2023 17:46
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Jel Shaker posted:i understand the staffing analysis was pretty damning, not just the deaths but numerous near events happened mostly around her shifts As I understood it the baby was desatting and she wasn't doing anything. I've worked on nicus at registrar level and can say this is not inherently "bad". Lots of prem babies will briefly drop sats and they will self correct. The devil is in the detail - how low and how long for. Might do more of an effort post on this at some point. It's an interesting case.
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Aug 21, 2023 19:21
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So she did do it yeah? Or is this one of those potentially murky cases? I haven't really been following the story tbh.
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Aug 21, 2023 19:36
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From the poo poo I've seen despite trying to avoid this news for the most part she apparently stalked the victims' families afterwards and kept a diary which said I did it and I did it b/c I like killing babies and seeing their parents cry.
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Aug 21, 2023 19:40
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ThomasPaine posted:So she did do it yeah? Or is this one of those potentially murky cases? I haven't really been following the story tbh. I only followed it the last few days, I get the feeling this thread before the trial, has been talking about her being a scapegoat? At least from some posts from people saying (paraphrasing) "the babies only had a 5% chance to survive", etc. But the evidence from the trial is that she was killing babies who were on the mend and their deaths were unexplainable. There is a whole lot of it. Including bizarre semi-confessions written on post-it notes in her handbag. Collecting the babies' medical documents as a memento. One of the blood tests had insulin that was obviously artificial, it didn't have a chemical that would be there if it was a natural diabetic thing. Brendan Rodgers fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Aug 21, 2023 |
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Aug 21, 2023 19:41
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ThomasPaine posted:So she did do it yeah? Or is this one of those potentially murky cases? I haven't really been following the story tbh. Well 12 people were forced to follow the story to minute detail and unanimously agreed she did do most of it, so I don't think it can really be that murky I haven't followed the story myself but she apparently had a lot of little notes about the whole thing at home including one that said "I did it, I'm evil" which while not a smoking gun would definitely sway me a bit
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Aug 21, 2023 19:41
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If you do want to catch up with the case and its key pieces of info, channel 4 news has a pretty good summary in 13 minutes (the remaining 7 is interview) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In0WVQ7lswU
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Aug 21, 2023 19:44
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Problem is those people were instructed to treat mad meandering notes about "babies always die under my care it must be me it must be because im evil" as literal, rather than a mad meandering note written by someone who had just had babies die. Whereas the defence agreed with the prosecution not to bring any statistics into the case because it might confuse the jury, whereas the statistic that the neonatal death rates remained the same or higher after she left but dropped markedly a while later after the consultant Dr Gibbs left might have been more useful to know than "she wrote some meandering post-its". Then again the expert witnesses were a doctor and scientist who retired from their professions around when Jonas Salk was still alive and were allowed to blast out the greatest medical hits of the 90s like "babies don't have antibodies" while she got a plumber, so the prosecution would probably just have got Dr Egon Spengler in to claim that she carried on killing from outside the hospital using a powerful psychokinetic blast, while the defence team forgot to ask for literally anyone.
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Aug 21, 2023 19:50
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