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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Trump apparently refused to initially turn himself in to the Georgia DA's office because he was trying to negotiate a surrender with them, but only if they booked him at the same as the Republican debate this week. Just as a temperature take on how 2024 is going for Republicans, “the lead candidate surrendering for one of his felony trials” overtaking “GOP debate” from the news is seen as a masterful media use by the candidate.
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Aug 21, 2023 21:33
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I love the blatant attempt to use captured media coverage of his arraignment to black out the first debate. He's fully aware of how that takes the oxygen out of the room. The ole no press is bad press. Serious brain worms about these indictments only making him more powerful. *laughs nervously to himself* Surely not though  Who am I kidding he's definitely leaning into the rally effect and in the primary its probably working.
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Aug 21, 2023 21:33
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:That's actually a fairly high bond. Kudos to Georgia for taking it seriously. High in what sense? I don't see how the risk of 200k is in anyway meaningful to Trump or anyone in his orbit. 200k is about 0.01% of what Jared got from Saudis for *reasons*
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Aug 21, 2023 21:36
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Yiggy posted:I love the blatant attempt to use captured media coverage of his arraignment to black out the first debate. He's fully aware of how that takes the oxygen out of the room. The ole no press is bad press. Serious brain worms about these indictments only making him more powerful. *laughs nervously to himself* Surely not though I assumed that this was an even more straightforward attempt to provide an excuse for skipping the debates. "I couldn't go to the debates because I was being arrested for PHONEY CHARGES." I know he already said he's not going because he doesn't need to, but he always says three to five different things on each topic and lets his supporters pick whichever one they like best. ryde fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Aug 21, 2023 |
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Aug 21, 2023 21:39
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Failed Imagineer posted:High in what sense? I don't see how the risk of 200k is in anyway meaningful to Trump or anyone in his orbit. We're talking about the guy who cashed a check for $0.17 circa 1990 as part of a journalist's experiment.
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Aug 21, 2023 21:43
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Tayter Swift posted:We're talking about the guy who cashed a check for $0.17 circa 1990 as part of a journalist's experiment. Point being? You think that Trump will modify anything about his behaviour based on the risk or forfeiting 200k?
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Aug 21, 2023 21:47
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Failed Imagineer posted:High in what sense? I don't see how the risk of 200k is in anyway meaningful to Trump or anyone in his orbit. Constitutionally, trump is presumed innocent at this point and bond is only to ensure his attendance at trial. I don't believe he had to post any federal bond at all, did he? I've seen murders where bond was set at 100k. 200k on a state charge is very high and any higher would indicate they were trying to unconstitutional deny bond.
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Aug 21, 2023 21:49
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Constitutionally, trump is presumed innocent at this point and bond is only to ensure his attendance at trial. I don't believe he had to post any federal bond at all, did he? E: quote:The DA charged Goldenvale and its officers, in a 70 count criminal complaint, with felony counts including conspiracy, grand theft, possession of false documents and money laundering. These counts were charged because Goldenvale and its officers imported, offered for sale and sold uncertified off-highway recreational vehicles and on-road vehicles in California without ARB certification as required by California law. I'm only an internet lawyer though so 
mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Aug 21, 2023 |
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Aug 21, 2023 21:55
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Failed Imagineer posted:Point being? You think that Trump will modify anything about his behaviour based on the risk or forfeiting 200k? It’s not the money, it’s that if he breaks the terms he can go to jail. Will Trump finally shut the gently caress up in his own interest? Fulton County just bet $200k on NO. The best way to understand Trump 2024 is to pretend (like he does) that he is the incumbent President. Why would he go to a debate? He’s obviously going to be the nominee, not these pissants. Showing up makes him look like just another candidate. Biden isn’t going to debate RFK2, Trump is not gonna debate Meatball.
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Aug 21, 2023 22:01
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To Trump's credit, he has actually smashed the spirit of the republican party so far under his boot that he created the conditions for winning by not participating, just let a bunch of nervous toadies stake it all on lobbying for vp
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Aug 21, 2023 22:42
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:I don't have the link handy but a few years ago I read a study that indicated pro wrestling fans are/were the most progressive fanbase of any major sport. To no one's surprise, golf was by far the chuddiest. I was pretty surprised and it made me reevaluate a lot of the assumptions I make about wrestling fans being dumb racist hicks or whatever. Turns out they are the most tolerant and cool fanbase out there. Not gonna lie. This would honestly shock me but I suppose the more I think about it that most wrestling fans know it's a put on and probably have a sense of humor about the whole thing. I guess my initial supposition with how I'd assume that 75% of them are conservative and MAGA leaning has to do with growing up seeing all the racist stereotype characters being played for heat, as well as an awful lot of xenophobic plotlines. IIRC, Andy Kaufman actually received death threats back during his I'm From Hollywood gimmick. I'm willing to admit that I'm stereotyping these wrestling fans though, as well as southern people in general, since wrestling is so big in red states but if I'm mistaken I'd love to read some articles about it. Now you guys have me wondering if I've been wrong about Monster Truck rallies and rodeo crowds. STAC Goat posted:
None of that would disqualify him though, given the current state of the GOP base and their chosen God at the moment. And at 77, Vince is younger than Biden. I hadn't even thought of Stephanie so, yeah, good point and calling that poo poo right now. Not toxxing though.
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Aug 21, 2023 23:07
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BiggerBoat posted:Not gonna lie. This would honestly shock me but I suppose the more I think about it that most wrestling fans know it's a put on and probably have a sense of humor about the whole thing. I guess my initial supposition with how I'd assume that 75% of them are conservative and MAGA leaning has to do with growing up seeing all the racist stereotype characters being played for heat, as well as an awful lot of xenophobic plotlines. Young Hispanic* people are the fastest growing WWE demographic. It's about 60/40 white and non-white fans (as of 2015). That's about double the non-white percentage of football. Soccer and basketball are the only sports with higher non-white fanbases. *Small asterisk because a lot more Hispanic people and mixed-race people are identifying as white now, so there might be some shifting of the demographics depending on how you count people. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Aug 21, 2023 |
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Aug 21, 2023 23:13
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BiggerBoat posted:Not gonna lie. This would honestly shock me but I suppose the more I think about it that most wrestling fans know it's a put on and probably have a sense of humor about the whole thing. I guess my initial supposition with how I'd assume that 75% of them are conservative and MAGA leaning has to do with growing up seeing all the racist stereotype characters being played for heat, as well as an awful lot of xenophobic plotlines. The Andy Kaufman era was about 12,000 years ago in wrestling years. Race and social issues played for carny purposes are still common, but very few watchers take any of it seriously. It's largely a myth that large portions of the viewership have ever believed it was "real." In the olden days, people simply found it fun to get drunk and throw garbage at heels. And while it's popular in the south, it's also popular regionally throughout areas of the U.S., Canada, UK, Japan, and Mexico. The halls of power in wrestling (locker rooms of power?) are probably more regressive than even NFL football though, as most wrestlers are under-educated and perpetuate high school politics deep into adult life because that's the only way to stay on top once you're there. A combination of an unbelievably long run of bad television and never-ending scandals in WWE have driven wrestling fans to the first real rival promotion in decades (or out of wrestling entirely). People don't really watch wrestling in the way they watch their sports teams. There's always a critical lens to everything.
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Aug 21, 2023 23:29
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Incredible that one of the things he's trying to keep secret is his weight. Not because there's anything wrong with being Rubensesque, but after he has so confidently spoken obvious bullshit about it for years and years, keeping that kayfabe up is apparently an important aspect of his booking by Georgia state authorities on his criminal fuckin conspiracy charges. Trump was sent to us by God to demonstrate the purest ego and vanity ever seen upon the Earth.
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Aug 21, 2023 23:33
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Young Hispanic* people are the fastest growing WWE demographic. It's about 60/40 white and non-white fans (as of 2015). That's about double the non-white percentage of football. The other variable is a LOT of wrestling fans were/are from lower to middle class, blue-collar families, and before very recent history, most blue-collar folks voted progressive because unions, etc. If you think about the history of pro wrestling heroes pretty much forever, it's interspersed with people who are working man heroes, even through today. Bruno Sammartino, Dusty Rhodes, Steve Austin, Jon Moxley, "Hangman" Adam Page, Dusty's son Cody...you've had your Hulk Hogans and The Rocks and John Cenas who are sorta the larger than life figures, but literally the most successful pro wrestling rivalry of ALL TIME was the no-frills, beer swilling, essentially working man proxy Steve Austin beating the poo poo out of his billionaire boss. That's not a coincidence.
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Aug 21, 2023 23:35
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mobby_6kl posted:Because most murderers aren't "billionaires" with private jetliners. Isn't the amount supposed to be dependent on the means of the accused to escape and their likelihood of trying it? The amount is supposed to be "an amount that is reasonably likely to ensure the defendant's presence at the trial", and no more. Even if the defendant is super loving rich, the court is going to have a hard time justifying a higher-than-usual bond if the defendant has a history of showing up to court (as Trump does) and complying with court orders (as Trump mostly has so far). It's easy to forget given how Trump is these days, but he's been in courtrooms a lot, and is generally obedient enough to not piss off judges.
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Aug 21, 2023 23:38
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Ms Adequate posted:Incredible that one of the things he's trying to keep secret is his weight. Not because there's anything wrong with being Rubensesque, but after he has so confidently spoken obvious bullshit about it for years and years, keeping that kayfabe up is apparently an important aspect of his booking by Georgia state authorities on his criminal fuckin conspiracy charges. Also a mug shot would be like a nega-HOPE Obama poster.
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Aug 21, 2023 23:44
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Also a lot of this wrestling talk omits the other organizations. Sure the McMahons and WWE are uhh not the best, but there are a TON of smaller organizations regionally, and AEW nationally. They're hosting openly LGBTQ+ wrestlers with queer characters and such frequently.
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Aug 21, 2023 23:48
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cool kids inc. posted:Also a lot of this wrestling talk omits the other organizations. Sure the McMahons and WWE are uhh not the best, but there are a TON of smaller organizations regionally, and AEW nationally. Very true, and as I said, even in WWE, lovely corporate practices aside, their current top faces are the son of Dusty Rhodes who is also half-Cuban and has been making much of his pro wrestling arc "My dad was one of the most famous wrestlers ever but we were actually dirt loving poor growing up and I was motivated to get here to honor my family and also support my daughter" (who is also mixed race, FWIW, as Cody married a black woman) and the other top face is a Samoan (a cousin of The Rock's no less) whose story is "I've been an underdog my whole life between my more successful twin and my insanely famous family and I'm trying to make my own name". Said Samoan underdog has been getting beaten down and gaslit by his cousin and the current Golden Boy of WWE, Roman Reigns, who is basically at this point a proxy for societal privilege created by success who then gaslights the working man into thinking they should thank them even though it's obvious they treat them like poo poo, and they'd be absolutely nowhere without said working man. Even though Vince probably hates it, a lot of pro wrestling's heroes are extremely progressive-coded, not to mention other promotions as you said, and again, that's not a coincidence. Part of me is honestly kinda baffled by the CHUD-ness of the McMahons, only because there's a lot that indicates that Vince honestly does "get it" in some way. Sorry if this is a derail, this subject is just both in my wheelhouse and very much fascinates me. 
SamuraiFoochs fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Aug 22, 2023 |
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Aug 22, 2023 00:08
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BiggerBoat posted:I suppose the more I think about it that most wrestling fans know it's a put on At this point more or less. The audience has shrunk enough that 95% of the people who watch also have some kind of internet interaction. I'd say only those who are super old/have been watching for decades out of habit/might go to a super local show and that's it wouldn't be in that first group. quote:and probably have a sense of humor about the whole thing. ohmygodholyshitno quote:I hadn't even thought of Stephanie so, yeah, good point and calling that poo poo right now. Not toxxing though. Stephanie is her father's daughter, for better or worse. I figured the bigger own is that both Trump/Vince have son-in-laws who are deep in bed with the Saudis.
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Aug 22, 2023 00:11
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SamuraiFoochs posted:
Hell, Stone Cold Steve Austin's feud against Vince McMahon and "The Corporation", one of the things that defined pro wrestling in the late 90s, is very heavily coded as a working man vs. The Man feud.
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Aug 22, 2023 00:19
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I’ve always been under the impression that Vince wouldn’t have gotten in bed with the Saudi’s if Trump didn’t.
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Aug 22, 2023 00:23
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Angry_Ed posted:Hell, Stone Cold Steve Austin's feud against Vince McMahon and "The Corporation", one of the things that defined pro wrestling in the late 90s, is very heavily coded as a working man vs. The Man feud. Yes. As I said it is LITERALLY the most successful pro wrestling angle ever. Ever. And it's not particularly close.
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Aug 22, 2023 00:23
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When you boil it down, wrestling is theater primarily featuring nearly naked dudes hugging and doing gymnastics so it's not too surprising that the audience leans left. Also, even though WWE has been frequently just embarrassingly racist, it has also featured minorities in prominent roles in ways that weren't super common way back when in entertainment just in general. There was a time when The Rock was the biggest name in wrestling with Booker T and Rey Myesterio Jr. not being all that far behind him. Even more midcardish wrestlers like Mark Henry and Farooq got their time to shine. I legitimately think you'd struggle to find mainstream television shows during the attitude era with as many minorities given leading roles. Dunno what it's like on that front now though, stopped watching forever ago. More on topic, I am just thrilled to bits at those bail stipulations, he isn't going to last more than 24 hours before loving one of them up.
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Aug 22, 2023 00:31
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Failboattootoot posted:When you boil it down, wrestling is theater primarily featuring nearly naked dudes hugging and doing gymnastics so it's not too surprising that the audience leans left. Also, even though WWE has been frequently just embarrassingly racist, it has also featured minorities in prominent roles in ways that weren't super common way back when in entertainment just in general. There was a time when The Rock was the biggest name in wrestling with Booker T and Rey Myesterio Jr. not being all that far behind him. Even more midcardish wrestlers like Mark Henry and Farooq got their time to shine. I legitimately think you'd struggle to find mainstream television shows during the attitude era with as many minorities given leading roles. Dunno what it's like on that front now though, stopped watching forever ago. It's still VERY much heavily featuring people of varying races and backgrounds. There's even been not one, not two, but THREE 100% Black WWE Champions in the last several years, one of whom, Kofi Kingston (real name Kofi Nahaje Sarkodie-Mensah) was literally born in Africa. Vince is SO loving weird, because he seems to genuinely appreciate diversity (and apparently worships MLK) but is also super racist? He's a very strange, honestly complex piece of poo poo. Also same. I'm gleeful about those stips. He's gonna violate them so many times so fast. 
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Aug 22, 2023 00:49
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SamuraiFoochs posted:It's still VERY much heavily featuring people of varying races and backgrounds. There's even been not one, not two, but THREE 100% Black WWE Champions in the last several years, one of whom, Kofi Kingston (real name Kofi Nahaje Sarkodie-Mensah) was literally born in Africa. Vince is SO loving weird, because he seems to genuinely appreciate diversity (and apparently worships MLK) but is also super racist? He's a very strange, honestly complex piece of poo poo. He really likes making money and figured out a more diverse roster makes more money. I don’t think it’s that much deeper than that.
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Aug 22, 2023 00:51
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:He really likes making money and figured out a more diverse roster makes more money. I don’t think it’s that much deeper than that. Except for the part that he seems earnest in his love of MLK, but anyway, that's probably for a different thread. Bottom line is, Trump boutta piss off a judge again 
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Aug 22, 2023 00:54
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:*Small asterisk because a lot more Hispanic people and mixed-race people are identifying as white now, so there might be some shifting of the demographics depending on how you count people. Do you have a source for this? Not that I doubt you but I'm interested in how this was determined.
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Aug 22, 2023 00:59
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KillHour posted:Do you have a source for this? Not that I doubt you but I'm interested in how this was determined. quote:Hispanics are often described as driving up the nonwhite share of the population. But a new study of census forms finds that more Hispanics are identifying as white. quote:In the 2020 census, 19.4 million Latinos identified as belonging to “Some Other Race" alone, followed by 9.6 million who identified as white alone, 1.4 million who identified as American Indian and Alaska Native alone and 960,080 who identified as Black or African American alone.  https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/latinos-census-dont-identify-racial-categories-rcna77592
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Aug 22, 2023 02:26
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Gosh. It feels like this has happened before.
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Aug 22, 2023 02:59
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Re: Pro Wrestling Chat, GLOW is a pretty good show worth watching.
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Aug 22, 2023 03:19
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SamuraiFoochs posted:Except for the part that he seems earnest in his love of MLK, but anyway, that's probably for a different thread.
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Aug 22, 2023 03:24
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plenty of people think capitalism is evil and still find it in themselves to make huge amounts of money. there's nothing incompatible about those views at all. hell it probably even helps, if anything
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Aug 22, 2023 03:43
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The Bible posted:Re: Pro Wrestling Chat, GLOW is a pretty good show worth watching. And since they got loving cancelled be sure to watch the documentary as something of a series finale I guess. loving Netflix
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Aug 22, 2023 03:48
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 "Ha ha wouldn't it be funny if I got on my golden plane and flew to Russia? Lol just joking. unless..."
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Aug 22, 2023 07:58
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Jesus III posted:Gosh. It feels like this has happened before. fuckin swarthy teutons, swarming pennsylvania and insisting on speaking german rather than english https://reimaginingmigration.org/benjamin-franklin-and-german-immigrants-in-colonial-america/
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Aug 22, 2023 08:21
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:
I'm willing to settle for Trump self-exiling, as it makes the outcomes of his trials fait accompli and at that point we'd eventually get the fabled Trump perp walk if he didn't die first.
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Aug 22, 2023 08:27
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Seeing him self-represent would almost make the last decade worth it.
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Aug 22, 2023 08:34
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Name Change posted:I'm willing to settle for Trump self-exiling, as it makes the outcomes of his trials fait accompli and at that point we'd eventually get the fabled Trump perp walk if he didn't die first. Trump fleeing the nation would probably be the best possible outcome of all this.
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Aug 22, 2023 08:37
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:
This reads like one of his social media unpaid ghostwriters did it, the random capitalization is all wrong. Is it still declaring yourself a flight risk if your unpaid ghostwriters published it to your Twitter account?
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Aug 22, 2023 08:38
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