[Pestilence] https://youhavetoliveyour.life/

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Pestilence] https://youhavetoliveyour.life/

(Thread IKs: PoundSand)

Buffer: May 6, 2007; I sometimes turn down sex and blowjobs from my girlfriend because I'm too busy posting in D&D. PS: She used my credit card to pay for this.

captainbananas posted:

it does, in fact, have a lot to do with the disciplines, as they, you know, exist within our society etc. etc.

health economists, baby. everyone's a health economist now, whatever their actual job or credential titles.

well yea, that's how it manifests. the dominant capitalist ideology demands conformation and things respond.

Gunshow Poophole posted:

^^

this is a very meta discussion but public health especially as a discipline operates within the strictures imposed upon it by society, it wouldn't exist as a discipline without them. it's a dialectic.

Those people ARE described by and upheld by that society as "the best and the brightest" because they work to optimize that dialectic in favor of the stability of the system.

What "the best and brightest" means is obviously different to us lol

Right, and that whole network of social proof is damaged / corrupted, as we can see by the results of it - millions dead, crippled, orphaned, good people driven out of fields.

I'm describing how it should be / what it should mean, not how it is.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 16:36

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# ? May 25, 2024 00:08

StratGoatCom: Aug 6, 2019; Our security is guaranteed by being able to melt the eyeballs of any other forum's denizens at 15 minutes notice

Lib and let die posted:

perhaps you should learn to read because the problem is with parents and administration

If they allow a fan, I think I have a solution that might be able to hide in plain sight:

https://lasko.com/products/lasko-air-flex-2-in-1-20-inch-box-fan-and-air-purifier-in-one-with-3-speeds-ff305-white

if they're anything like the roasting rooms I dealt with in Canadian school no one will look edgewise at a teacher giving themselves a fan. Probably not as good on filter lifespan, but it's the best Q-cube we can offer.

Failing that, we can offer commiseration but please, we want to help.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 16:36

Rosalind: Apr 30, 2013; When we hit our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change.

Buffer posted:

those weren't the best and brightest... is the thing. They were the people that were willing to work within the political economy, so they're very useful as "science" social proof for all kinds of interests.

There were plenty of doctors, scientists, epis, MPHs, etc. who went out on a limb, risked something to go against that crowd and say that XYZ was worse or whatever. The failure mode was that was generally punished, not rewarded, even once they turned out to be right. You see the same dynamic in climate change. Certain things are guaranteed a platform because of the wider political economy.

As someone who was working in an academic setting and had some very wrong ideas at the start of the pandemic, it was very difficult to know who exactly to trust. Many epidemiologists I respected said some very bad and wrong things (and some were even intentionally downplaying the pandemic for political reasons a la Ioannidis).

I knew enough to start warning people to prepare for the pandemic in February, even though this was considered a very fringe belief at my institution! A distinguished professor of public health referred me to student mental health services after I met with him in late February 2020 about preparing one of our studies for an imminent school closure. A fellow student and I conducted an air flow audit of the classrooms where we found that basically every classroom would be dangerous. That got us an email from a Vice Dean telling us that students accessing classrooms for "non-educational purposes without permission" was a violation of campus safety rules. Even the week before the school closed in March 2020, I said we should bring as much study materials home as we could and I was told "the Dean has said he will not close the school except if ordered to by the state and that's not going to happen."

Let me tell you my views did not endear me to the administration of my school and I still have a reputation as a troublemaker. One of the vice deans, having had a glass of wine or two at a campus picnic last summer, told me that the Dean had sent emails before that just had my name as the subject line. She would not tell me what those emails contained.

This is all to say that you're right. The fact is that a lot of people who reach these distinguished positions in public health do so because they are willing to play ball with the system. I don't think most of them are malicious but they are cognitively biased toward recommendations that are more politically palatable.

Lest I sound like I knew all the answers from the start, I was super wrong about a lot of things. I have a lot of regrets about the advice I gave early on, but I was doing the best I could with the knowledge I had and using the advice from the experts I trusted at the time.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 16:38

Why Am I So Tired: Sep 28, 2021

Buffer posted:

The thing that prompted kiddo to not want to mask anymore is apparently she was getting bullied on the bus. We had cut a deal but on thursday, she took it off to not deal with it and today we are having symptoms and testing positive on a Luciria / negative on a RAT.

One day. This virus does not gently caress around.

But hey, bullying works.

All of this is so loving unfair. I'm so sorry.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 16:38

Lib and let die: Aug 26, 2004

StratGoatCom posted:

If they allow a fan, I think I have a solution that might be able to hide in plain sight:

https://lasko.com/products/lasko-air-flex-2-in-1-20-inch-box-fan-and-air-purifier-in-one-with-3-speeds-ff305-white

if they're anything like the roasting rooms I dealt with in Canadian school no one will look edgewise at a teacher giving themselves a fan. Probably not as good on filter lifespan, but it's the best Q-cube we can offer.

Failing that, we can offer commiseration but please, we want to help.

hell I might buy a few of those, we smoke a ton of pot inside the house lmfao

# ? Aug 22, 2023 16:38

StratGoatCom: Aug 6, 2019; Our security is guaranteed by being able to melt the eyeballs of any other forum's denizens at 15 minutes notice

Rosalind posted:

As someone who was working in an academic setting and had some very wrong ideas at the start of the pandemic, it was very difficult to know who exactly to trust. Many epidemiologists I respected said some very bad and wrong things (and some were even intentionally downplaying the pandemic for political reasons a la Ioannidis).

I knew enough to start warning people to prepare for the pandemic in February, even though this was considered a very fringe belief at my institution! A distinguished professor of public health referred me to student mental health services after I met with him in late February 2020 about preparing one of our studies for an imminent school closure. A fellow student and I conducted an air flow audit of the classrooms where we found that basically every classroom would be dangerous. That got us an email from a Vice Dean telling us that students accessing classrooms for "non-educational purposes without permission" was a violation of campus safety rules. Even the week before the school closed in March 2020, I said we should bring as much study materials home as we could and I was told "the Dean has said he will not close the school except if ordered to by the state and that's not going to happen."

Let me tell you my views did not endear me to the administration of my school and I still have a reputation as a troublemaker. One of the vice deans, having had a glass of wine or two at a campus picnic last summer, told me that the Dean had sent emails before that just had my name as the subject line. She would not tell me what those emails contained.

This is all to say that you're right. The fact is that a lot of people who reach these distinguished positions in public health do so because they are willing to play ball with the system. I don't think most of them are malicious but they are cognitively biased toward recommendations that are more politically palatable.

Lest I sound like I knew all the answers from the start, I was super wrong about a lot of things. I have a lot of regrets about the advice I gave early on, but I was doing the best I could with the knowledge I had and using the advice from the experts I trusted at the time.

You've shown a lot more mea culpa then shitheads like Trash Can Denter, we're not mad at you. :buddy:

# ? Aug 22, 2023 16:39

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Pepe Silvia Browne posted:

it's weakness, overall. The "not cautious enough" stuff comes from the Liberal side, and it's residual from when it was an event. "he should've been vaccinated" "he should've gotten a booster" etc. And all of it drives toward a kind of perceived Stupidity, that if this person had known better they'd taken a different series of actions that would have ended with the virus deciding not to infect them quite so bad.

I'd go a little further than this; from the liberal standpoint everything is the result of choice-making by the perfectly spherical frictionless individual on the surface level but underneath that, the 'right' choices that result in the good outcomes are entirely those dictated to the individual from the authorities and serving the ends of the status quo. Get absolutely wrecked by covid? It's probably because you made bad individual choices didn't get a booster, etc. but only if that's what the current politically-motivated public health guidance is. If you decided to bandit yourself a booster a day early, you were stealing it from some hypothetical poverty-stricken child in a distressed neighborhood. Similarly, you probably got wrecked by not being careful enough (no such thing as material circumstances, you made your choices). But if you're just being careful generally in a way that is not currently recommended by the authorities for you (like universal masking is not currently recommended), then you must have anxiety and for your own mental health your choices need to be discredited.

It's an incredible double-bind because on the one hand you can always find a way to blame individuals for their own victimization by absolute dog-poo poo policy, and also you can pre-emptively smear people for making choices to try to avoid being victimized in the first place. Any behavior that diverges from the status quo can be ostracized, it's very convenient.

quote:

A distinguished professor of public health referred me to student mental health services after I met with him in late February 2020 about preparing one of our studies for an imminent school closure. A fellow student and I conducted an air flow audit of the classrooms where we found that basically every classroom would be dangerous. That got us an email from a Vice Dean telling us that students accessing classrooms for "non-educational purposes without permission" was a violation of campus safety rules. Even the week before the school closed in March 2020, I said we should bring as much study materials home as we could and I was told "the Dean has said he will not close the school except if ordered to by the state and that's not going to happen."

Great example of my second point that you posted while I was writing it

The Oldest Man has issued a correction as of 16:43 on Aug 22, 2023

# ? Aug 22, 2023 16:40

Pingui: Jun 4, 2006; WTF?

Rosalind posted:

(..)
A distinguished professor of public health referred me to student mental health services after I met with him in late February 2020 about preparing one of our studies for an imminent school closure.
(..)

lmao, jfc.

Edit: I am not laughing at you, but the absurdity of the situation and frankly, how little has changed since then.

Pingui has issued a correction as of 16:44 on Aug 22, 2023

# ? Aug 22, 2023 16:41

Why Am I So Tired: Sep 28, 2021

Re: xylitol sprays, since I don't think it's been mentioned yet and I'm not sure how common knowledge it is - xylitol is extremely toxic to dogs. If you have a dog it's probably a better idea to go with something like Flo Travel instead.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 16:41

Why Am I So Tired: Sep 28, 2021

The Oldest Man posted:

I'd go a little further than this; from the liberal standpoint everything is the result of choice-making by the perfectly spherical frictionless individual on the surface level but underneath that, the 'right' choices that result in the good outcomes are entirely those dictated to the individual from the authorities and serving the ends of the status quo. Get absolutely wrecked by covid? It's probably because you made bad individual choices didn't get a booster, etc. but only if that's what the current politically-motivated public health guidance is. If you decided to bandit yourself a booster a day early, you were stealing it from some hypothetical poverty-stricken child in a distressed neighborhood. Similarly, you probably got wrecked by not being careful enough (no such thing as material circumstances, you made your choices). But if you're just being careful generally in a way that is not currently recommended by the authorities for you (like universal masking is not currently recommended), then you must have anxiety and for your own mental health your choices need to be discredited.

It's an incredible double-bind because on the one hand you can always find a way to blame individuals for their own victimization by absolute dog-poo poo policy, and also you can pre-emptively smear people for making choices to try to avoid being victimized in the first place. Any behavior that diverges from the status quo can be ostracized, it's very convenient.

Great post

# ? Aug 22, 2023 16:42

StratGoatCom: Aug 6, 2019; Our security is guaranteed by being able to melt the eyeballs of any other forum's denizens at 15 minutes notice

Lib and let die posted:

hell I might buy a few of those, we smoke a ton of pot inside the house lmfao

Hell, I'm not rich in money but I'll still buy it for you if you want.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Aug 22, 2023 16:43

NeonPunk: Dec 21, 2020

Edit: I realized that this is coming close to speculation on my part and this was inappropriate to post about

NeonPunk has issued a correction as of 16:57 on Aug 22, 2023

# ? Aug 22, 2023 16:50

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

StratGoatCom posted:

You've shown a lot more mea culpa then shitheads like Trash Can Denter, we're not mad at you.

I can't be mad at Bob Wachter, he's like a living example of what happens to people when they don't take this seriously regardless of how many letters they have after their name. Like Wile E Coyote coming out of the hole he fell in with a cast on one leg, crutches, and a neck brace and then going after the roadrunner again.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 16:53

Bruce Hussein Daddy: Dec 26, 2005; I testify that there is none worthy of worship except God and I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of God

oops

# ? Aug 22, 2023 16:58

Lib and let die: Aug 26, 2004

StratGoatCom posted:

Hell, I'm not rich in money but I'll still buy it for you if you want.

Appreciated, but I think we can actually write it off as classroom supplies!

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:06

BONGHITZ: Jan 1, 1970

icantfindaname posted:

The American way is that I pay service workers to perform services for me

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:07

Tulip: Jun 3, 2008; yeah thats pretty good

Rosalind posted:

As someone who was working in an academic setting and had some very wrong ideas at the start of the pandemic, it was very difficult to know who exactly to trust. Many epidemiologists I respected said some very bad and wrong things (and some were even intentionally downplaying the pandemic for political reasons a la Ioannidis).

I knew enough to start warning people to prepare for the pandemic in February, even though this was considered a very fringe belief at my institution! A distinguished professor of public health referred me to student mental health services after I met with him in late February 2020 about preparing one of our studies for an imminent school closure. A fellow student and I conducted an air flow audit of the classrooms where we found that basically every classroom would be dangerous. That got us an email from a Vice Dean telling us that students accessing classrooms for "non-educational purposes without permission" was a violation of campus safety rules. Even the week before the school closed in March 2020, I said we should bring as much study materials home as we could and I was told "the Dean has said he will not close the school except if ordered to by the state and that's not going to happen."

Let me tell you my views did not endear me to the administration of my school and I still have a reputation as a troublemaker. One of the vice deans, having had a glass of wine or two at a campus picnic last summer, told me that the Dean had sent emails before that just had my name as the subject line. She would not tell me what those emails contained.

This is all to say that you're right. The fact is that a lot of people who reach these distinguished positions in public health do so because they are willing to play ball with the system. I don't think most of them are malicious but they are cognitively biased toward recommendations that are more politically palatable.

Lest I sound like I knew all the answers from the start, I was super wrong about a lot of things. I have a lot of regrets about the advice I gave early on, but I was doing the best I could with the knowledge I had and using the advice from the experts I trusted at the time.

badass

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:09

Bastard Tetris: Apr 27, 2005; L-Shaped; Nap Ghost

Rosalind posted:

I don't think most of them are malicious but they are cognitively biased toward recommendations that are more politically palatable.

thread title

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:11

StratGoatCom: Aug 6, 2019; Our security is guaranteed by being able to melt the eyeballs of any other forum's denizens at 15 minutes notice

Bastard Tetris posted:

thread title

'Not Malicious, but Politically Palatable.'

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:13

Asproigerosis: Mar 13, 2013; insufferable

Anyone trying to argue believe all doctors needs to really learn about the appeal to authority fallacy. The entire American response was about keeping that big beautiful economy going at all costs. I've personally seen many instances of doctors being clueless or factually wrong about health care. They are far from infallible.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:19

Zantie: Mar 30, 2003; Death. The capricious dance of Now You Stop Moving Forever.

For anyone who missed it, Sale on for BreatheTeq, 15% off with code BTS2023

https://breatheteq.com/

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:19

Lib and let die: Aug 26, 2004

Asproigerosis posted:

Anyone trying to argue believe all doctors needs to really learn about the appeal to authority fallacy. The entire American response was about keeping that big beautiful economy going at all costs. I've personally seen many instances of doctors being clueless or factually wrong about health care. They are far from infallible.

no one is saying believe all doctors

hell i myself have spoken about my doctor shopping because i've gone through a couple of primaries that wanted me to do stupid poo poo like "drink more tonic water" or "do this via telehealth" and when the telehealth rolls around they tell me that no they actually can't do my medical marijuana referral by telehealth

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:21

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Lib and let die posted:

unfortunately for my wife, every covid shot she's gotten has put her on her rear end for, minimum, 3 days. a shot now and a shot in a few more months just...isn't gonna happen. she's not even the type to take a flu vaccine, so getting her on board with even semi regular 'rona refreshes was a big win (it 'helps' that her parents are both immunocompromised to some degree [according to what they tell us their doctors tell us so lmao])

Has she tried novavax? Anecdotally the responses to that are a lot milder.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:22

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Zantie posted:

For anyone who missed it, Sale on for BreatheTeq, 15% off with code BTS2023

https://breatheteq.com/

What's good about these?

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:23

Bastard Tetris: Apr 27, 2005; L-Shaped; Nap Ghost

Asproigerosis posted:

Anyone trying to argue believe all doctors needs to really learn about the appeal to authority fallacy. The entire American response was about keeping that big beautiful economy going at all costs. I've personally seen many instances of doctors being clueless or factually wrong about health care. They are far from infallible.

My PCP is an internal medicine doc so most of the early information came from me- they have a very high patient workload and nobody pays them to do lit reviews on their own time.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:24

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Jort Fortress posted:

Amazing to me that schools would refuse better air quality in the classroom.

My Corsi anecdote:
My aunt teaches in a red-as-gently caress school district in rural Southern IL (so rural that kids are allowed to be absent when hunting season starts). I hipped my uncle to the Corsi-Rosenthal Box 2 years ago, he built one and it's been running in her classroom since. They change the filters every semester and they're dirty as hell. She claims that no one has complained, which admittedly surprised me.

Another note, for any teachers or relatives of teachers in IL. The IDPH is offering free HEPA purifiers for every classroom and daycare:
https://dph.illinois.gov/resource-center/news/2023/march/idph-launches--30-million-program-to-distribute-air-purifiers-in.html
https://www.illinois.gov/news/press-release.26746.html

not EVERY one but a lot of them.

quote:

The program is funded by the CDC through the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021 and is targeted for school districts that serve lower income communities and counties that have elevated air pollution counts. IDPH estimates almost 3,000 schools will be eligible for the program, covering 68 percent of school districts in the state. It will cover schools throughout the state, including Cook County, with the exception of Chicago, which has received a separate federal grant.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:25

Lib and let die: Aug 26, 2004

Jort Fortress posted:

Amazing to me that schools would refuse better air quality in the classroom.

I can name 3 broward county public schools that it's an open secret that there is mold in the classroom walls

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:26

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Oracle posted:

Has she tried novavax? Anecdotally the responses to that are a lot milder.

I would like to, personally. I got all the other rounds as fast as possible but it's gonna be about a year since my last dose of Moderna and I am not excited. I've almost never felt so hosed up. it you add up all the days I guess I've been on my rear end for 9-10 days from all the shots so far. I didn't get COVID yet though.

I feel like I developed a mild tickle in my heart that persisted for like a month after my second round of Moderna (although my first vaccination series was Pfizer). A doctor in America and a doctor on turkey said "oh yeah it's probably the Moderna," Turkish doctor told me never to take Moderna again. Lol

mawarannahr has issued a correction as of 17:31 on Aug 22, 2023

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:28

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

woops

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:30

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:30

Asproigerosis: Mar 13, 2013; insufferable

Bastard Tetris posted:

My PCP is an internal medicine doc so most of the early information came from me- they have a very high patient workload and nobody pays them to do lit reviews on their own time.

Oh yeah the post covid era of health care in america is loving dire there's still like half the work force missing. Doctors don't stand a loving chance they are just trying desperately to keep their heads above water and not drowning in the sea of patient loads.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:33

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Rosalind posted:

As someone who was working in an academic setting and had some very wrong ideas at the start of the pandemic, it was very difficult to know who exactly to trust. Many epidemiologists I respected said some very bad and wrong things (and some were even intentionally downplaying the pandemic for political reasons a la Ioannidis).

I knew enough to start warning people to prepare for the pandemic in February, even though this was considered a very fringe belief at my institution! A distinguished professor of public health referred me to student mental health services after I met with him in late February 2020 about preparing one of our studies for an imminent school closure. A fellow student and I conducted an air flow audit of the classrooms where we found that basically every classroom would be dangerous. That got us an email from a Vice Dean telling us that students accessing classrooms for "non-educational purposes without permission" was a violation of campus safety rules. Even the week before the school closed in March 2020, I said we should bring as much study materials home as we could and I was told "the Dean has said he will not close the school except if ordered to by the state and that's not going to happen."

Let me tell you my views did not endear me to the administration of my school and I still have a reputation as a troublemaker. One of the vice deans, having had a glass of wine or two at a campus picnic last summer, told me that the Dean had sent emails before that just had my name as the subject line. She would not tell me what those emails contained.

This is all to say that you're right. The fact is that a lot of people who reach these distinguished positions in public health do so because they are willing to play ball with the system. I don't think most of them are malicious but they are cognitively biased toward recommendations that are more politically palatable.

Lest I sound like I knew all the answers from the start, I was super wrong about a lot of things. I have a lot of regrets about the advice I gave early on, but I was doing the best I could with the knowledge I had and using the advice from the experts I trusted at the time.

drat our IT security folks were meeting with the feds as early as late Jan and joking with us about how we might want to start hoarding canned goods. The joking got less as Feb went on and they even mentioned toilet paper as something we might want to stock up on.

But all this is depressingly familiar coming from academia.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:34

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

Lib and let die posted:

no one is saying believe all doctors

hell i myself have spoken about my doctor shopping because i've gone through a couple of primaries that wanted me to do stupid poo poo like "drink more tonic water" or "do this via telehealth" and when the telehealth rolls around they tell me that no they actually can't do my medical marijuana referral by telehealth

vaguely certain I've seen plenty of statements about not doubting doctors

it is crazy considering doctors were the ones prescribing ivermectin but "are you a doctor? no? shut the gently caress up" has made appearances

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:36

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

I only trust doctors when they conform to my expectations and desires

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:38

Delta-Wye: Sep 29, 2005

Rosalind posted:

As someone who was working in an academic setting and had some very wrong ideas at the start of the pandemic, it was very difficult to know who exactly to trust. Many epidemiologists I respected said some very bad and wrong things (and some were even intentionally downplaying the pandemic for political reasons a la Ioannidis).

Let me tell you my views did not endear me to the administration of my school and I still have a reputation as a troublemaker. One of the vice deans, having had a glass of wine or two at a campus picnic last summer, told me that the Dean had sent emails before that just had my name as the subject line. She would not tell me what those emails contained.

this is also in a related field, right?

lol, lmao

i knew things were hosed when my former employer cockblocked environmental health and safety (the people already in charge of keeping the facilities safe using things like ppe and environmental controls in the face of nominally dangerous activities) from drafting a response in lieu of the executive assistants, who could be trusted to Do It Right and get us back to work, but Safely.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:39

captainbananas: Sep 11, 2002; Ahoy, Captain!

I can remember having a ~labor economist~ colleague bitch into my ear for a good 20 minutes as I tried to drink my coffee in late February about how the other prof who cancelled an invited speaker series event was a goddamn loving moron. And how they were going to get the dean to pull the cautious prof's center directorship to be replaced with one of "their people." That caught them an eyebrow arched enough for the clarification: they meant another rational, big-brained economist.

2 weeks later we were thrown the gently caress out of the building and a good million+ americans were thrown in a ditch

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:41

teemolover42069: Apr 6, 2023; by Fluffdaddy

Asproigerosis posted:

drowning in the sea of patient loads.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:42

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Just a reminder that cannabis is not approved in the U.S. for the treatment of any disease by the body that has the authority to approve drugs. Please don't advise people to take anything except Epidiolex (cannabidiol), Marinol (dronabinol), Syndros (dronabinol), and Cesamet (nabilone). These approved drug products are only available with a prescription from a licensed healthcare provider. Importantly, the FDA has not approved any other cannabis, cannabis-derived, or cannabidiol (CBD) products currently available on the market.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:44

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

doctor said I needed to lose 300 pounds. got my revenge by giving them all zeros on their patient satisfaction survey

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:44

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# ? May 25, 2024 00:08

Animal-Mother: Feb 14, 2012; RABBIT RABBIT
RABBIT RABBIT

captainbananas posted:

a good million+ americans were thrown in a ditch

We have the tools. (they are shovels)

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:44

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Pestilence] https://youhavetoliveyour.life/

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