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"This isn't really a safe place to be open with your personal information so we should try to make it safer and also make ourselves safer" seems like a reasonable position to me, tbh
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Aug 23, 2023 00:41
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ArfJason posted:ah, my apologies for taking doxxing and stalking seriously, but hey you managed to get the victim to leave the place she was venting and seeking help at. Great job being an ally I don't think it's appropriate to accuse people of not taking doxxing and stalking seriously because they think that something you said sounded victim blamey. I'm not the only one who thought so, either. it's nothing to get so upset about though man, it really truly is not a big deal and I truly did not mean to upset you like this. my bad dude, have a good one. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 23, 2023 00:50
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Mnoba posted:a second dox has hit the forums Still deranged behavior of course.
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Aug 23, 2023 00:54
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His photo is literally in his profile, just like mine. That's not doxxing
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Aug 23, 2023 00:55
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sick necktie
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Aug 23, 2023 01:09
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teemolover42069 posted:lmao it's a joke arf, are you ok? i mean i really do disagree with you but that's ok, it's not a big deal, nothing to get upset about. everything alright with you? this is it.. the least mad poster in the universe.. look how calm this person is, meanwhile, arf must be raging, because he responded earnestly!! unbelievable what is wrong with your brain? why would you think this would work? respond within 11 hours or i will presume you are Bad at videogames (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 23, 2023 01:27
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Boba Pearl posted:I agree with Arfjason is saying, and was sharing how I got doxxed because I wanted to show how easy it was. I'm so loving exhausted with this conversation, so I'm stepping out of it, but PLEASE be careful. That's all anyone is saying. Be careful. You deserve to take care of your personal info. That's all, no more needs to be inferred. yeah sorry this blew up. it's never not a bad time to make sure your personal poo poo is secure on the internet. i get that arf genuinely wasn't trying to divert from the subject at hand, it just really sounds like that if you only skim the context. also i take no responsibility for the guy that got mad. aaaaaanyway, how about shutting off the feature until y'all can implement some way of requiring and tracking a login token at least? poo poo seems somewhat out of hand
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Aug 23, 2023 01:38
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:
That's pretty much the consensus admins and users reached several months ago. There's two pending threads for this at the bottom of SAD. I decided to do something that I'm pretty sure will get ignored and PMd Jeffrey to look at the forum and all the pending threads since the person he hired to remind him to read the forums is either no longer employed or not doing her job.
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Aug 23, 2023 01:43
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:yeah sorry this blew up. it's never not a bad time to make sure your personal poo poo is secure on the internet. i get that arf genuinely wasn't trying to divert from the subject at hand, it just really sounds like that if you only skim the context. also i take no responsibility for the guy that got mad. its cool man, were all on the same team. when it comes to sensitive topics like these its good to be as thorough as possible and i could have been more comprehensive. you read the post that way out of concern for other people, and thats to be respected. i just dont want more ppl to be hurt.
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Aug 23, 2023 01:43
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ArfJason posted:its cool man, were all on the same team. when it comes to sensitive topics like these its good to be as thorough as possible and i could have been more comprehensive. you read the post that way out of concern for other people, and thats to be respected. i just dont want more ppl to be hurt. arfjason ftw
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Aug 23, 2023 01:45
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My photo is also in my profile. Have at it lads.
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Aug 23, 2023 02:02
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I am insanely gay oh my god
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Aug 23, 2023 03:21
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Roth posted:I am insanely gay oh my god insanely and brutally
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Aug 23, 2023 03:29
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not me but im built different
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Aug 23, 2023 05:22
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It's really sad this community is getting doxxxed but as additional suggestion I would say that a way to solve this would be to only allow registered accounts with an age of at least a year and they must have had several dozen posts or some such metric. Tracking cc's won't work either. You have little idea if the person using that card is that person. It's super easy to get a pre-paid anyway.
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Aug 23, 2023 05:23
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Access To Anonymous Avatar purchases for anyone who starts a thread that operates for three years in disadvantaged subforums (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 23, 2023 06:00
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Is there at least an established process to deal with and investigate the doxxing after the fact? It sounds like Jeff is doing something this time, but I never noticed if he takes the same steps for every doxxing event.
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Aug 23, 2023 12:52
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we should remember av purchases aren't just about doxxing but also harassment in general including bigotry/slurs. personal info hygiene can only go so far also worth noting: sure there are ways around tech solutions like IP checks or whatever. but there's a reason why these people are buying avs with money rather than just making a post with an account
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Aug 23, 2023 12:53
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The existing system is definitely bad and screening purchased avs (and ads, for that matter) would solve a lot of issues, but also what we have now isn't really more dangerous that the posting functionality in general. Anyone can register an account, start stalking someone in the threads they post in, pay a little extra to send abusive DMs, create new threads to doxx someone, etc. Then they get banned and lose their  , of course, the same way they lose when a bad avatar is blanked, and both cases require intervention from mods who can edit posts/blank avs, and banning an account even requires admin action. Buying an av is maybe slightly more convenient for the perpetrator because they don't need to use VPN or create a burner email address, but if someone crazy sets their mind on harassing someone on SA, there will always be ways to do that, even if for a brief period and with a $10 price tag.Again, there is an obvious way to improve the system, it should be done at some point, and it's good that people keep bringing up the issue. It's just maybe not as dramatic as some people in the thread suggest. Also, going back to my point about crazy reregs, I know there are tools for identifying VPN users, so maybe disabling registration under VPN could help, too. It will require some dev effort, but my understanding is it's more of an out of the box thing than a custom interface for screening avs.
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Aug 23, 2023 14:01
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Paladinus posted:The existing system is definitely bad and screening purchased avs (and ads, for that matter) would solve a lot of issues, but also what we have now isn't really more dangerous that the posting functionality in general. Anyone can register an account, start stalking someone in the threads they post in, pay a little extra to send abusive DMs, create new threads to doxx someone, etc. Then they get banned and lose their There is a noteworthy difference between a person firing off a post in one or a few threads about a target and someone changing every post a target has made into a bigoted attack or doxing.
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Aug 23, 2023 14:03
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Ammat The Ankh posted:People intentionally misreading Arf's post to get mad are lame as hell so instead I want to circle back around to this: She solves the avatar issue by requiring that all of them be panels from her comic.
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Aug 23, 2023 15:03
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Grassy Knowles posted:There is a noteworthy difference between a person firing off a post in one or a few threads about a target and someone changing every post a target has made into a bigoted attack or doxing. Good point. On the flipside, it makes it more noticeable to more mods, but depending on how often the victim posts it can have a much bigger impact than however many posts one can make in 30 minutes before getting banned.
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Aug 23, 2023 15:18
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The Postman posted:Is there at least an established process to deal with and investigate the doxxing after the fact? It sounds like Jeff is doing something this time, but I never noticed if he takes the same steps for every doxxing event. Not really. If goons are involved in doxxing, it's a permaban. Doxxing by non-goons (or former goons), especially offsite, there's not really much that can be done. I quit being a mod when Abe got doxxed because there was nothing from the mod/admin team at the time except "that sucks bro. sorry you're dealing with it." because the doxxing was all done offsite. I can't fault Ralp and Ozma for shrugging their shoulders with Abe's situation. Admittedly, I never got into arguments with 12 year olds on twitter that would lead to an Abe style doxxing, but I was starting a business at the time and got spooked. I didn't need that drama in my life. Ultimately, Jeff can try to work with the payment processor to track down the latest person, but even then there is only so much that can be done in this situation.
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Aug 23, 2023 15:24
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Tracking down payment processers isn't going to work either and the assumes there's a way to associate the card with an individual. It could be pre-paid or even hell even some random company. What's the Abe story?
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Aug 23, 2023 15:51
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we should track down the real names and addresses of doxxers and make them pay for their crime imho (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 23, 2023 15:57
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idea: opt-in option when someone gets an av buy, they could have a window of time where it's shown to only them, and they can hit accept on it to show immediately, or report it if it's doxxing threat stuff & automatically get a title cert (w/ ban+30 or w/e for misuse) otherwise it'll go through automatically in (6-24h, you could set it to 6hr after last login since av purchase or 8am that posters timezone & avoid nighttime issues) could prevent users from purchasing their own av until either reporting or OKing their received one so people get to see their money being spent (could also be locked in w/ a timer based on how long they waited before they can change it if they OK it, so people can't game it at all) that way the system can stay, no av mod-queue, no login requirement or change to the store, but potentially harmful poo poo's not immediately displayed to everyone and people targeted don't get forced to either spend their own money fixing it or chase down a mod/admin to blank it - the powertrip of forcing the other person to react to their attack Immediately is usually a major driver in these kinda things. if you give the users an instant way to negate that (one that's penalized harshly for misuse to dodge allowed titled ofc), it immediately removes that reward for them entirely problem solved? alternatively, if logins were tied to other user av purchases, u could just require like 50 posts and 60d account age and that would likely do the trick too, but maybe more work idk FirstnameLastname fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Aug 23, 2023 |
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Aug 23, 2023 16:08
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Add plat to the requirement so it's 2 pay walls before you can red text
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Aug 23, 2023 16:25
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Jeff, can you optimize your taking money for attempts at doxxing? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 23, 2023 16:28
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probably should just take it one step at a time instead of devising complex labour-intensive processes or trying to pre-empt questions like "what if they make burner accounts" "what if they use a VPN" "what if they're direct employees of the NSA" making av purchases require a login is a straightforward* first step. if it still continues then we can add further barriers. the goal is not perfect defence, it's enough swiss-cheese barriers to deter most harassers
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Aug 23, 2023 16:49
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FirstnameLastname posted:idea: opt-in option when someone gets an av buy, they could have a window of time where it's shown to only them, and they can hit accept on it to show immediately, or report it if it's doxxing threat stuff & automatically get a title cert (w/ ban+30 or w/e for misuse) otherwise it'll go through automatically in (6-24h, you could set it to 6hr after last login since av purchase or 8am that posters timezone & avoid nighttime issues) This actually sounds like a great idea assuming it can be built into the forum's spaghetti code. Having it hold AVs for a set time and allowing users to request Mod/Admin review if it falls into the category of "things we do not allow people to buy each other as AVs" is a pretty good compromise that still allows for the bulk of the previous utility. +1
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Aug 23, 2023 17:00
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agree with FNLN, as always
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Aug 23, 2023 17:06
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FirstnameLastname posted:idea: opt-in option when someone gets an av buy, they could have a window of time where it's shown to only them, and they can hit accept on it to show immediately, or report it if it's doxxing threat stuff & automatically get a title cert (w/ ban+30 or w/e for misuse) otherwise it'll go through automatically in (6-24h, you could set it to 6hr after last login since av purchase or 8am that posters timezone & avoid nighttime issues) 2nd option works better. The intent of the harasser is to upset their target so under the first plan, the harasser still gets their jollies sending threats or w/e to the person being harassed.
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Aug 23, 2023 17:14
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imo change avatar buying as follows: 1) buying an avatar for another user requires the user to be logged in and have an account 2) avatar buying does nothing except creating a thread in a subsection of the admin forum
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Aug 23, 2023 17:15
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Frank Frank posted:2nd option works better. The intent of the harasser is to upset their target so under the first plan, the harasser still gets their jollies sending threats or w/e to the person being harassed. There are very few messages on the internet that are more upsetting in a 1:1 comm than in a broadcast. though yes there is still a negative effect there, it grants agency.
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Aug 23, 2023 17:16
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Frank Frank posted:2nd option works better. The intent of the harasser is to upset their target so under the first plan, the harasser still gets their jollies sending threats or w/e to the person being harassed.
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Aug 23, 2023 17:19
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pog boyfriend posted:imo change avatar buying as follows: Yeah, that's sensible.
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Aug 23, 2023 17:21
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zero avatar changes for other users, possibly annoys the admins. I see no downsides.
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Aug 23, 2023 17:47
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In the meantime set up the posting protection program where doxxed goons are banned and receive a new account, a new identity with custom regdate, a pre generated posting history, etc. You can start a new life as a car enthusiast, or maybe you want to give posting about nintendo games a go
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Aug 23, 2023 18:11
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Frank Frank posted:2nd option works better. The intent of the harasser is to upset their target so under the first plan, the harasser still gets their jollies sending threats or w/e to the person being harassed. Mostly, but I'd mostly take it up to a year or 2 of membership, also Harold's plat idea isn't the worst either on top because it adds further deterrent to heinous AVs from established members if they risk losing it for anything that isn't perma worthy.
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Aug 23, 2023 18:37
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:What's the Abe story? He got into a twitter argument with some idiots and in the quote chain at some point was some 12 year old kid. Abe flippantly replied to someone else something about showing dicks off or something like that which turned into an offsite doxxing crusade against Abe for threatening to expose himself to a minor. He got some calls at his work and such and had to explain to his boss what was going on. I don't remember specifics and cannot dig up posts about it because it was a decade ago or so. I think he stopped being a mod shortly after as well, but, again, this was forever ago. Either way, it seemed like a major pain in the rear end to deal with.
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Aug 23, 2023 18:50
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