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You're not wrong but it's absolutely a human trend rather than being a problem with liberals- how many rightist think Joe Biden is literally a communist? Most people don't bother to interact with their enemies (and when they're as vile as the incel/Tate crowd I can't quite blame em) and it's just easy to lump them together- but that's a problem much broader than any single ideology
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Aug 24, 2023 16:14
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How is it helpful? It justifies the freakout that I'm currently having online, or at my family and friends in real life. I have a lot of friends who doomscroll, read about insane right-wing policies, and conclude that most people in the US and the world are misogynistic, homophobic, genocidal lunatics. This is less painful than coping with the fact that the US is not a democracy and the nominally left party is extremely bad at its job. Even my spouse won't let go of the notion that Ron DeSantis is extremely popular. StashAugustine posted:You're not wrong but it's absolutely a human trend rather than being a problem with liberals- how many rightist think Joe Biden is literally a communist? Halloween Jack has issued a correction as of 16:24 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 16:14
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Andrew Tate is Russian disinfo!!!! Trust the Muller report!
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Aug 24, 2023 17:25
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Halloween Jack posted:How is it helpful? It justifies the freakout that I'm currently having online, or at my family and friends in real life. I went to Scotland in 2010 and even then media had them convinced every single American was a bible thumping gun nut.
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Aug 24, 2023 17:32
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It puts everyone at maximum levels of panic and thus open to what's presented as the only possible solution, subscribing to my Patreon. Also justifies the visible failures of white feminism.
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Aug 25, 2023 01:22
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Puppy Burner posted:Incel was coined by a cis lesbian about her own dating experiences in Toronto actually. In the 90s. Men steal everything 
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Aug 25, 2023 01:25
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It puts everyone at maximum levels of panic and thus open to what's presented as the only possible solution, subscribing to my Patreon. Also justifies the visible failures of white feminism. Out of curiosity, what not-white feminism do you think does so much better? Tossing on more identity markers makes the patreon grifting more and more lucrative.
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Aug 25, 2023 01:34
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It puts everyone at maximum levels of panic and thus open to what's presented as the only possible solution, voting for Hilary Clinton.
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Aug 25, 2023 01:35
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broads
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Aug 25, 2023 01:46
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tokin opposition posted:Out of curiosity, what not-white feminism do you think does so much better? Tossing on more identity markers makes the patreon grifting more and more lucrative. You'd think so but it tends to be a liability thanks to the unexamined prejudices of white feminists and joss whedon male feminists, and their ideological descendants in TERFs, ideally you want disconnected vague identity markers rather than ones actually indelibly tied to your identity, that allow you to cry persecution with the minimum possibility of actual persecution. Black feminists find it a lot easier to understand that being born male does not mean life on easy mode. The overarching problem is again the complete unwillingness and inability to acknowledge material problems and the resulting cartoonish idea of patriarchy that men do not come in different classes or have different problems, that even entertaining the idea that men CAN have problems that are not personal failings is considered irrevocable taint by the Enemy. Again you can probably see how this leads in to TERFism where when you believe in that essentialism of victims and victimisers, anything blurring the lines can only be seen as a form of threat. Even 'toxic masculinity' got abused into uselessness and stripped of its proper meaning of sexist behaviour that harms men, often self-destructively. Basically there was a long period of 'girls rule, boys drool' feminism that was considered cute and harmless and only misogynists could possibly have a problem with it, and then they wonder where all these frothing lunatics about bathrooms came from. There's a also a reason 'Intersectionality' suddenly stopped being used by a lot of people when leftists started saying 'Intersectionality includes class'. e: Also I think kinda goes with a lot of things people on the ground realised about how the last like 30 years have had very little tangible progress despite the successes idpol claimed, mostly revolving entirely around media representation and a handful of designated token minorities; a black president didn't do poo poo for black people and all those strong female characters didn't translate to women actually getting more equal pay or benefits, for example. Hell, losing Roe and affirmative action seem pretty tangible signs that poo poo is actively regressing thanks to unchecked reactionaries and liberal failure. (thanks, RBG!) The bare-minimum facade of the End of History is failing. Ghost Leviathan has issued a correction as of 07:53 on Aug 25, 2023 |
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Aug 25, 2023 07:35
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Getting people of <whatever minority> into positions of power and influence is utterly worthless if they reproduce the same rotten power dynamics that already were there before. Those with power know this so they specifically select those members of minority groups that are ideologically aligned with them for positions of power. Idiots call this progress.
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Aug 25, 2023 09:10
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Ghost Leviathan posted:There's a also a reason 'Intersectionality' suddenly stopped being used by a lot of people when leftists started saying 'Intersectionality includes class'. this one it particular is perfect because do you think the 'Combahee River Collective' forgot that part?
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Aug 25, 2023 23:55
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 On dates, Richard Cooper describes his job as, “a board adviser in a national financial services business, real estate investor, and I do my own private equity investing.” Most women, he writes in his book The Unplugged Alpha, don’t know what that means. That’s why he says it. He does this to assert that his SMV (sexual market value) is higher than theirs. They are supposed to infer from his jumble of LinkedIn buzzwords that he earns money. It’s a dominance tactic. And in the game of relationships, Cooper is a violent tactician. But if you Google Richard Cooper, his job is simply “YouTuber.” Whatever he claims he does for work, Cooper is best known for his YouTube channel “Entrepreneurs in Cars,” which has over 687K subscribers. In his most popular videos, he warns men against dating single mothers and women with tattoos. Cooper also occasionally goes viral on the social media platform formerly known as Twitter, by posting screenshots of women’s dating profiles to make his point that women are leeches and just want a high-value man to take care of them. On August 12, Cooper shared a screenshot of a Reddit post ostensibly by a 41-year-old woman who regretted her divorce. She left her husband, the post read, because “I thought I was a great catch because I’m still very beautiful for my age and I lost my mom bod so I thought I could do better than him so I left him…” The post goes on to describe how her ex is married to a beautiful woman 10 years his junior, and now she — the post’s alleged author — has gained 20 lbs and is alone, and miserable. The post went viral, in part because of people noting that a woman most definitely did not write it. “Of everything that never happened, this never happened the most,” one user wrote.  After he triggers the feminists with his bold red-pilled truths on Elon Musk’s X, Cooper shares a link to his book The Unplugged Alpha. Read this book to learn the truth about women and about life, the marketing copy reads. Naturally, I ordered a copy. Even positive online reviews of The Unplugged Alpha are quick to point out its obvious factual errors. Cooper uses a lot of unsourced statistics and observations to declare things like that men are worse off financially after a divorce (false: statistically, it’s women) and that women are driven by a biological clock (also false, and an increasing number of women are choosing not to have children). In the opening chapter, he declares that the world is female-oriented because there are more efforts to have women become CEOs than work in the coal mines (okay, both are male-dominated fields); because men are more likely to be victims of violent crime (true! But it’s violence by other men, which is something men and women have in common — we are victims of male violence); and because men were killed in wars while women were just made to be war brides (sir, that’s rape). He also loves to point out that women are more likely to take low-paying jobs so they can find a man to take care of them. He gets everything at least 20 percent right. Yes, women still earn less to the male dollar; live in a country without affordable childcare or parental leave; are more likely to be the primary caretakers; and do the majority of the housework. I’s not that we are taking low-paying jobs to be drains on men; those jobs are often the only ones that work with the realities of our lives. Cooper’s book, self-published, is another error-riddled angry screed from another angry man who felt entitled to relationships with women, got dumped, and then decided to gamify the operation. He is a living double standard: a single father who hates single mothers. He’s a divorced man who hates divorced women. He brags about his sexual experience but warns against women with sexual experience.  For Cooper, relationships are explicitly transactional. “Men and women have little in the way of common interests; other than men wanting to have sex with women and women wanting to extract attention or resources from men,” he writes. So the lesson is to treat women like useless broads. Run them through tests. See if they’ll tattoo their name on you. Treat them like spinning plates in a juggler's hands — keep many of them spinning at once. Cooper is almost worth writing off as another loud voice of angry men in a culture of isolated angry men. But America is in the vise grip of lonely men. Their politics and their violence are choking us to death. Every day I wake up to see another story of a lonely and angry man who got a gun and shot up a school, a church, a grocery store. To read the headlines, the male loneliness epidemic is at a crisis point. New York Times columnists encourage women to just have sex with men, as if perhaps the seething rage and isolation weren’t contributing to a lack of sex. Or maybe, people suggest, men should play pickleball. Even an article in the Washington Post seems to indicate that women are surging ahead and men are struggling. (Not exactly true, but okay.) It’s hard to be a mother and a woman and more than three years into a pandemic and see this concerned hand-wringing and not be reminded that women fared worse in 2020; that women are also isolated and lonely and are still doing poorly, and in response are now facing a country that is further restricting their rights to bodily autonomy while men play the victim. This isn’t to say men aren’t suffering; it’s just that their suffering apparently merits a level of concern that women’s suffering never has.  While reading Cooper’s book I laughed at the ridiculous tropes of misogyny, like the idea that feminists all have blue hair and are obese and all live with cats. But I also had the gut-sinking realization that I’ve encountered his belief system in the wild, in the minds of men who identified as good liberals — men who thought a woman shouldn’t have male friends, men who thought a woman shouldn’t be posting selfies, men who thought that single mothers were broken or good only for sex. The ridiculous extremes are easy to quote and mock; it’s the more insidious expectations that settle into the psyches. Even now, as I write this, I can hear the keyboards typing away, “Not me! Not all men!” Or worse, “I’m sorry you chose to date those men” as if in the choosing I was the one who erred and not the men in their behavior. We want to make misogyny the outlier, the realm of the shitposting red-pilled men online. Still here we are. Reproductive rights are being taken away. Trans kids are being harmed. Mass shootings are on the rise. And I still have people tell me that women should band together to solve these problems.  Men are lonely. Everyone is lonely. But Richard Cooper has weaponized his loneliness. He’s started a group where men who give him a couple thousand dollars can hang out with him and other dudes. They can chat together. They can bond over cars and how to bring down no-fault divorce. Cooper also has moments where he is right. He advises men to dress better because it will help them feel better. This is true. He says men should hire a photographer to take better pictures of themselves for the apps. They should! It’s great advice. Even better advice would be to have your friends help you out here. Nothing makes me feel more loved by my friends when they grab my phone and take a flattering picture of me. While reading the book I had some moments of himpathy, as Kate Manne calls it. I am sorry, I can’t help it But there were moments that felt so sad. A man who says he has nothing in common with women still desperately seeking a relationship with them. A man who wants love but finds nothing lovable in the world he sees. I’m not being a pick-me, it really seems like an awful life. As the sociologist Jane Ward points out in her book The Tragedy of Heterosexuality, men crave companionship from a gender they’ve been raised to despise. Women, by contrast, are socialized to love and embrace male interests and hobbies. It has to be awful — to be trained to hate everything about a person, and yet still desire that person. Cooper wants to be with women, but he doesn’t even know how to like them. But the place to work that out is therapy, not in a YouTube channel where you full on monologue for hours about the dangers of single mothers. I sometimes wonder about the thin membrane that separates me from Cooper. After all, I too have written a book about divorce. I’ve written about how marriage is a government-funded system that does not benefit women. Reading Cooper’s book, I wondered if I am just the inverse of Cooper — a woman who thinks marriage is just a scam for men to eke unpaid labor out of women. But Cooper’s response to heartbreak is to gamify and commodify love and relationships, until it is nothing more than a Bitcoin exchange. Where even his self-worth is built not on who he is, but on his external sexual market value. Cooper doesn’t believe in relationships. But relationships are what I have always believed in — relationships, stripped of capitalist enterprise, are what I want to redeem. But there can be no relationship without love and there can be no love without justice and there can be no justice without equality, and that doesn’t happen when your version of relationships is oppressive, small, and built on gamesmanship. This version of connection I believe in is intentional and actionable and it’s radical and it’s love, love a word that never ever appears in Cooper’s book except in reference to cars or to sneeringly dismiss it as a feeling that cucks fall for. Because despair and oppression are easier systems to embrace than the raw-skinned vulnerability of love. But why listen to me? I am the kind of woman Cooper warns about. I have more than one red flag from his list of red flags. I’m a feminist with tattoos, daddy issues, and children. I’m the woman these men warn about. I am a woman who loves cats, dyes, her hair, loves her friends so fiercely, and is so happy in her solitude and community. In sum, I am a woman so unruly and impossible, that I’ll never settle for less than full love and equality.
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Aug 31, 2023 02:40
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didn't read that
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Aug 31, 2023 03:16
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you know what ill go ahead an express an actual opinion this timebell hooks posted:“Usually adult males who are unable to make emotional connections with the women they choose to be intimate with are frozen in time, unable to allow themselves to love for fear that the loved one will abandon them. If the first woman they passionately loved, the mother, was not true to her bond of love, then how can they trust that their partner will be true to love. Often in their adult relationships these men act out again and again to test their partner's love. While the rejected adolescent boy imagines that he can no longer receive his mother's love because he is not worthy, as a grown man he may act out in ways that are unworthy and yet demand of the woman in his life that she offer him unconditional love. This testing does not heal the wound of the past, it merely reenacts it, for ultimately the woman will become weary of being tested and end the relationship, thus reenacting the abandonment. This drama confirms for many men that they cannot put their trust in love. They decide that it is better to put their faith in being powerful, in being dominant.” i really really really really hate this kind of bullshit because its literally inverted biotruths that contextualizes the fear of intimacy as being an inherently male affliction based on how bell hooks assumes a stereotypical philanderer thinks and she doesnt at all grasp that men and women often want very different things from relationships and that men are no more monolithic in what they want than women are now when i discuss womens studies programs rebranding to gender studies and trying to recruit more men to engage in discussion this is exactly the kind of thing that got people to think about applying this kind of intellectual rigour because the question is naturally begged do men really think that maybe we should find some men and ask them since calling them emasculated babies seems kind of reductive ughhh sorry it just really irritates me to see this kind of thinking presented so uncritically the extent to which modern feminism seems to revolve around cults of personality is really frustrating because its like the exact opposite of how i was trained
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Aug 31, 2023 03:20
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Ohtori Akio posted:didn't read that
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Aug 31, 2023 04:26
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I'm not sure how much is confirmation bias but also seems like modern feminism from the pop to the academic is also wildly obsessed specifically with incels and the 'manosphere' at the expense of all else, as some mix of scapegoat and schadenfreude, with no apparent interest in anything about men outside of that. (Which is probably one to talk coming from someone posting on a dead gay forum that also treats them as entertainment but at least we're honest about it) It's ultimately just the same poo poo from like a decade ago at this point where it's two sets of nominally opposed grifters in a symbiotic relationship stoking outrage and feeding on the attention they get from each other. Almost seems like they end up a mirror image, men who proudly don't give a poo poo about women's problems and women who proudly don't give a poo poo about men's problems, and both believe this makes them morally and intellectually superior.
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Aug 31, 2023 05:51
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i was reading another one super belittling of divorced man energy and was really unnerved by how while i couldnt think of anyone who met that definition (because i dont read self published books by misogynist weirdos just to get mad at them) divorced woman energy applies to like drat near every divorced feminist i read well i assume its possible that some of them are divorced but just dont bother randomly bringing their exhusband up every third post you see enough of them do it and its hard to imagine other ones not doing it
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Aug 31, 2023 06:03
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are the guys ok I'm worried about the fellas
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Aug 31, 2023 06:03
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Private Cumshoe posted:are the guys ok I'm worried about the fellas https://melindawmoyer.substack.com/p/the-epidemic-of-male-loneliness tldr version is not great
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Aug 31, 2023 06:05
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Some Guy TT posted:you know what ill go ahead an express an actual opinion this time I mean you're right but also lol at hooks using psychotherapy bullshit ~feministly~. yeah I'm sure the discipline whose tl;dr is that all mental illness is the result of mothers being either too loving or not loving enough is the right thing to reach for to explain the second-most popular gender in the world. Wonder what she thinks about penis envy and their other coked up pseudoscience bullshit when applied to women she also had a bunch of landlord brain near the end and I found this turd of an article written by her about paris is burning if you're in the mood to read some garbage some guy tt: http://artsites.ucsc.edu/faculty/gustafson/FILM%20165A.W11/film%20165A%5BW11%5D%20readings%20/hooksparis.pdf anyway I want to say I really appreciate your writing about this even if I disagree with you on it's severity. I'm not sure why there are two gender studies people in c-spam but I'm glad to not be alone at least. You might be tempting me back into that life, maybe I'll read something long and boring and obnoxiously written for old time's sake 
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Aug 31, 2023 06:27
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tokin opposition posted:
oh i think ghost leviathan is onto something with the bit about irony its easier to be mad about something than constructive and my views are also heavily influenced by doing commercial writing instead of academic so were probably closer than it seems im glad youre here too and ill check that pdf out later i just wish there was a korean studies person i could talk to about that eighties baseball comic thats a metaphor for how the urge for rapid economic success will cause you to go insane and lose everything you ever loved
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Aug 31, 2023 06:43
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Private Cumshoe posted:are the guys ok I'm worried about the fellas the fellas have not been ok for quite a while
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Aug 31, 2023 06:59
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the bitcoin of weed posted:the fellas have not been ok for quite a while Quite possibly have never been OK, really
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Sep 1, 2023 03:54
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Some Guy TT posted:i dont read self published books by misogynist weirdos just to get mad at them
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Sep 7, 2023 21:22
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it's time i'll be the first womanosphere influencer, a scumm manifesto for the modern day
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Sep 7, 2023 23:23
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so ive been reading this book the farm for a feminist book club the premise is that theres this high end surrogacy farm theres four perspective characters two surrogates at the farm one from a genteel new york background the other a poor filipina mother both young then theres the manager of the farm and then theres the significantly older cousin of the poor filipina mother whos taking care of her baby the book itself is fairly inoffensive although how it goes out of its way to be antichina is a little eyebrow raising the whale surrogacy client whos implied to be kind of a bitch is this chinese billionaire the manager of the farms father escaped chinese tyranny at some point in the past i dont think was clearly stated when and theres an offhand line about the terrible baby killing pollution in beijing fun china facts not mentioned include how china bans surrogacy which you could debatedly justify as this not being something that the generally pro surrogacy characters would ever mention but all the other stuff is presented noncritically whats bugging me is the feminist book club itself and specifically the framing of the whole plot as being patriarchal despite the almost complete absence of any male characters the capitalist reading of the story is straightforward enough all the characters are talking themselves into thinking that surrogacy or other dubious obsessions with money are good ideas by rationalizing the more sentimental aspects of surrogacy stories with their own material or emotional needs but like how can a story that is demonstrably not about men at all still be about men im trying to envision what the plot would look like if it took place in a girlboss barbie utopia with no patriarchy at all and its...not appreciably different? the poor filipinas moms husband is a deadbeat dick and the genteel new yorkers dad is maybe kind of patronizing to her mother who has turbo alzheimers but neither of these specific plot points are all that important and the characters themselves barely ever discuss them realizing this disconnect as i get closer to finishing the book is just making me realize how feminism seems to have drifted from conceptualizing stories as not needing men to conceptualizing them as requiring men like we need to care what the men are thinking at all times which is just really weird because were not even discussing actual men were discussing abstract patriarchal representations of them and were discussing them in such a way to imply that women dont have any real agency outside of what men tell them to do this is just a really strange position to take in regard to a story where the central plot device is the commodification of childbearing and women negotiating their relationships with other women within that framework technically speaking you could do this kind of plot in a postapocalyptic setting where men literally dont even exist so how can this fundamentally be a story about men
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Oct 4, 2023 18:14
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I promise to read that if you punctuate it.
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Oct 4, 2023 18:27
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is it a feminist book club, or a feminist book club? in any case, you should present your thesis that this is actually an anti-feminist book, which infantilizes women and acts like they are beasts incapable of ethical behavior.
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Oct 4, 2023 18:27
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A Buttery Pastry posted:is it a feminist book club, or a feminist book club? i dont think that is what the book is about which is why im really confused that the book club seems to be presenting the book as if it were while also defining this as the feminist interpretation as far as i can tell because theyre using the word patriarchy a lot to describe it but yeah its a feminist book club the book itself is presented neither as feminist nor as a book club book theres no discussion questions in the back wait the author is a staff writer at the economist who worked in investment banking and private equity investing??? the gently caress was this actually intended to be a pro surrogacy story???
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Oct 4, 2023 18:41
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Some Guy TT posted:so ive been reading this book the farm for a feminist book club the premise is that theres this high end surrogacy farm theres four perspective characters two surrogates at the farm one from a genteel new york background the other a poor filipina mother both young then theres the manager of the farm and then theres the significantly older cousin of the poor filipina mother whos taking care of her baby Some Guy TT posted:i dont think that is what the book is about which is why im really confused that the book club seems to be presenting the book as if it were while also defining this as the feminist interpretation as far as i can tell because theyre using the word patriarchy a lot to describe it did not read
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Oct 4, 2023 22:12
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China is incredibly harsh in how it deals with people found to be engaging surrogates. Chinese people do it here in the US because there's fewer protections and they think they can get away with it
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Oct 4, 2023 23:10
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oh yeah i forgot the bit where one of the characters goes what if they force us to have abortions like they do in china and also the chinese billionaire pays a bonus for a boy baby that particular aspect of the book makes a lot more sense now that i know the author writes for the economist my favorite feminist publication
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Oct 4, 2023 23:14
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Ohtori Akio posted:did not read did not read
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Oct 4, 2023 23:55
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White feminists don't realise feminism without class consciousness is unrecognisable when you've seen feminism that does
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Oct 5, 2023 01:08
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Actually I think you'll find that Real Feminism is about achieving gender parity among fortune 500 CEOs and literally nothing else 
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Oct 5, 2023 03:39
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real feminism is telling men you did not read their long rear end post
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Oct 5, 2023 03:43
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Real feminism is giving me money.
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Oct 5, 2023 05:38
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LuxuryLarva posted:Real feminism is giving me money. Oh hey, wassup every white woman
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Oct 5, 2023 05:47
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Ohtori Akio posted:did not read and yet you're part of poppers porno reading club smdhh
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Oct 5, 2023 06:31
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