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Franco Caution posted:This costs $340k lol. lmbo wtf
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Aug 24, 2023 17:01
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Franco Caution posted:This costs $340k lol. Maybach money for GM quality. Seems legit.
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Aug 24, 2023 17:02
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Olympic Mathlete posted:This looks like poo poo. How expensive is it? I was wondering when we'd see the first Celestiq in the wild. It's a minimum of 300,000 united states dollars and the owner chooses all the colors and fabrics and trim.
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Aug 24, 2023 17:08
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Speaking as a fan of recent Cadillac Sedans, that's loving terrible. At least make it an actual wagon. How do you go from this to that? 
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Aug 24, 2023 17:15
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Franco Caution posted:This costs $340k lol.
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Aug 24, 2023 18:36
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Franco Caution posted:This costs $340k lol. $340,000  I can think of far prettier ways to spend that much cash, holy poo poo.
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Aug 24, 2023 18:46
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Sab669 posted:Hyundai even said they programmed in fake shifts into the Ioniq 5 N like what? They are all heavy, go fast in a straight line, are more or less SUVs and have essentially the same motor (maybe different levels of fake noise). It feels like all of the mid-range sporty cars used to be more exciting than any new EV or hybrid for less than 100k€. I mean, to me they all drive like hyper motorized SUVs, which is a vehicle type I genuinely don't get why you would want to drive. Sure, some Rimac or whatever can go faster than a jet... but that's still kinda the same party trick. All of the mid range fun cars are about to disappear or become poo poo (at least in Europe) except if you are able to shell out 120k€ plus in 2023 or 2024 to get the last hurra. Heck, Japanese and Korean manufacturers already straight up don't sell any of their cool cars anymore in Europe. You can only buy soap blobs from them. I am convinced some car brands are gonna be in big trouble because if you gotta buy a tiny motor hybrid or EV, why shell out money for a Mercedes or something like that if you can get the same exact weight and motor in a cheap yet reliable daily driver... Am I the only one who finds this extremely bleak? I know it's dumb. After all, cool cars are pretty useless without a planet to drive on. Still, I hope I get to buy something like a Guila or RS4 or M2 or whatever before they go away, but it's probably gonna be to late for me when I have that kind of disposable income and lookat dat dere markups here in Europe (or lack of downright availability for the last non EVs here in Europe)...
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Aug 24, 2023 18:47
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Haramstufe Rot posted:like what? I've been feeling this for a while, that gas engines provided most of the personality of a car and there's no personality to an EV. I'd hope to be proven wrong, but the future just looks very bland. I'm extremely curious exactly what Mazda is going to do with the next generation Miata. Some type of mild hybrid is coming, but it's the Miata and I'm sure they're not going to gently caress it up. Europe still gets Miatas and the Subaru BRZ and such, right?
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Aug 24, 2023 18:56
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I really don’t think there is an EV only future unless they can get charging times down to under 5 mins or so
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Aug 24, 2023 18:59
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Media: holy poo poo the average car price went up $10,000 in three years to $50,000 GM and Ford: quick launch some $300,000+ priced cars to make fifty large look normal and not what houses cost in 1985 Presumably Biden and whoever comes next is going to get a bullet proof one of those, the fast back gives additional interior volume for the limo version which is probably a good thing All of the RR Phantoms after the III looked like garbage too but they still sold more than enough to keep production going
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Aug 24, 2023 19:01
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euphronius posted:I really don’t think there is an EV only future unless they can get charging times down to under 5 mins or so I think the medium term is looking worse than that: Rich people will have EVs and somewhere to charge them at their houses, poorer people will not, and once a majority of higher income Americans have gone EV there's no reason politically to keep gasoline prices low, and the entire oil industry knows it faces a long-term demand slide and will be thinking about ways to maximize profits during that period. I'd bet that we're soon going into a period where driving is going to become cheaper for richer people and more expensive for those who can't charge at home.
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Aug 24, 2023 19:07
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Hadlock posted:Media: holy poo poo the average car price went up $10,000 in three years to $50,000 Nah, the presidential limo is barely a Cadillac. It's essentially a Top Kick in a tux. There's no way they could make that weird A7 knockoff look even halfway decent after blowing it up like they did with the DTS for the limo.
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Aug 24, 2023 19:19
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Boaz MacPhereson posted:Nah, the presidential limo is barely a Cadillac. It's essentially a Top Kick in a tux. There's no way they could make that weird A7 knockoff look even halfway decent after blowing it up like they did with the DTS for the limo. https://www.autoweek.com/news/a44783913/armored-bmw-i7-protection-ev-sedan/ BMW can make i7 tank like if you pay them well enough, i think that cadillac is not that smaller than this.
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Aug 24, 2023 19:24
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Twerk from Home posted:I think the medium term is looking worse than that: Rich people will have EVs and somewhere to charge them at their houses, poorer people will not, and once a majority of higher income Americans have gone EV there's no reason politically to keep gasoline prices low, and the entire oil industry knows it faces a long-term demand slide and will be thinking about ways to maximize profits during that period. Industry (and the military in particular) is highly dependent on diesel in the medium term (although over in the EV thread I posted a pic of a ups delivery truck style van that had been electrified by a smaller, more traditional company, so maybe that future is arriving sooner than we thought). Maritime is entirely dependent on diesel and at larger scale bunker oil. Batteries just can't match the density needed to run a 30,000 hp engine for 9-24 days, and idle in/outside of port for another 2 weeks. The bigger threat, IMO, is most any house 2500 sq ft or larger (which is a significant fraction of them) probably has enough roof to produce it's own power and go off grid, industry and low density residential can both support their own power needs, the question is when, not if. Solar is still getting cheaper despite inflation. The local elementary school they just built by my MiL's house has solar that covers the entire faculty parking lot and the building is energy neutral to the grid from day 0. The grocery store by my house has 4 or 6 fast charging stations installed right next to the entrance. They're almost always occupied with charging EV. Once they figure out how to roll out level X fast charging, I think charging at home will be seen as a luxury. I don't think charging an EV is going to be an inconvenience for much longer. Even in ~2014 I recall seeing a Nissan Leaf parked in an 8-plex parking lot edit: add quote to clarify context Hadlock fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 19:26
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Hadlock posted:Once they figure out how to roll out level X fast charging, I think charging at home will be seen as a luxury. I don't think charging an EV is going to be an inconvenience for much longer. I dunno, it seems to me that it’d be easier to address the home charging problem than to do a mass rollout of DC chargers everywhere.
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Aug 24, 2023 19:31
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Twerk from Home posted:I've been feeling this for a while, that gas engines provided most of the personality of a car and there's no personality to an EV. I'd hope to be proven wrong, but the future just looks very bland. I personally think cars managed to become extremely bland and boring just fine even with gas engines. So I don't think it's the EVs fault. It's just as someone said, cars will become like smart phones. They will all look alike, run the same hardware and software basically and there will be little to nothing a person can do to the car in terms of maintenance, repair or modification outside a locked in service chain, which will probably be designed so the vehicle lifespan will be short compared to older vehicles.
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Aug 24, 2023 19:38
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I kind of like that Cadillac but I may have brain damage.
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Aug 24, 2023 19:39
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Haramstufe Rot posted:like what? You can always play around with weight placement, number of drive wheels, 4 wheel steering and lots of other features. I'm no chassis engineer but any project is always going to be a battle of Cost / Scope and at different price points they'll have to make compromises. Like I said, yea the average appliance car is probably going to be further homogenized and you'll be buying on price point, looks, and tech. But a $30K* EV sports car is still going to have certain compromises that a $100k EV sports car won't have to make. (*lol any sports car starting at $30K in whatever year it is that bottom-market EV sports cars finally arrive)
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Aug 24, 2023 19:40
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dissss posted:I dunno, it seems to me that it’d be easier to address the home charging problem than to do a mass rollout of DC chargers everywhere. I can see a future where corporate owned apartment buildings sign a revenue sharing deal with a large EV charging companies, much like they do with coin-op laundry machine companies in a shared laundry room. Heck there's probably a couple companies out there like that already. EVs only hit critical mass maybe 5-7 years ago and landlords are going to be very slow to add new amenities on properties that are already profitable and generating revenue until it's proven that they can reliably make an extra $50-70 per tenant per month. Privately owned buildings are another story, they're owned by actual people and hate giving up any kind of control, or sharing it with others Hadlock fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 19:44
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Haramstufe Rot posted:like what? Driven wheels, steering weight/ratio/feedback, chassis balance, power split, traction control systems, suspension geometry, center of gravity are all things that will still differ from car to car in an EV only world. Even if you accept that the motors are all basically the same, which isn’t really true, Chevy puts the pretty much the same pushrod motors in corvettes and trucks and they still manage to feel like very different vehicles. EVs feel homogenized right now because every manufacturer is focused on making midsize SUVs at a certain price point because those are what are most likely to sell. Once the EV market broadens you’ll get more differentiation, especially if battery tech improves and weights start to come down.
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Aug 24, 2023 19:53
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Mazda has a patent for human-liftable swappable batteries: https://www.thedrive.com/news/mazda-rotary-sports-car-with-hot-swappable-hybrid-batteries-is-an-amazing-concept. Their patents in general are heading towards something like front hub motors + an electric motor in the transmission (like the big Ford hybrids). I honestly don't get why Tesla isn't dropping the Model 3 drivetrain into a 2 seat roadster, it seems like they have everything they need to sell a $50k electric roadster but they don't do it.
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Aug 24, 2023 19:59
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My guess is that over time the electricity grid is going to be allowed to fall into even more significant disrepair as wealthy households become more able to shield themselves from negative effects through things like generators, solar panels and battery banks. I can already see examples of gated communities advertising their community-wide backup generator as a selling point on marketing brochures. Either you're going to have the money to insulate yourself from the collapse of infrastructure, in which case you won't notice much difference, or you're going to be experiencing constant rolling blackouts and going for days without power regularly. I have no idea how the average person would be able to charge an EV under those conditions, either you just won't be able to or you'll have to go to rent-seeking commercial fast charging stations that will strip mine the remainder of your paycheck (and ruin your battery at an increased rate which will necessitate more money extraction when you have to replace it sooner).
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Aug 24, 2023 20:00
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Blackhawk posted:My guess is that over time the electricity grid is going to be allowed to fall into even more significant disrepair as wealthy households become more able to shield themselves from negative effects through things like generators, solar panels and battery banks. I can already see examples of gated communities advertising their community-wide backup generator as a selling point on marketing brochures. Here in Italy, public chargers are mostly in the AC 7-22kw range, usually in parking lots. Fast DC charging is usually in select highway or highway adjacent areas. AC public charging is equivalent or less than 95 petrol, DC charging is more expensive then 98 petrol. DC everywhere is something that is not viable long term for countries with bad grids(like us), while huge banks of 11kw chargers are more easy to manage. SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 20:08
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First gen A7 is one of the most beautiful sedans of all time.
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Aug 24, 2023 20:17
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Twerk from Home posted:Mazda has a patent for human-liftable swappable batteries: https://www.thedrive.com/news/mazda-rotary-sports-car-with-hot-swappable-hybrid-batteries-is-an-amazing-concept. Their patents in general are heading towards something like front hub motors + an electric motor in the transmission (like the big Ford hybrids). Tesla is focused on becoming a volume manufacturer, 2 seat roadster is pretty much the opposite of that. The model 3 is also a pretty long car. Its a foot longer than a Cayman and 2.5 feet longer than a Miata. You’d either be making a really big roadster or you’d lose a lot of space to put batteries which means cutting range. Plus it’s a lot harder to hide the weight from batteries when you’re competing with other sports cars and not Accords and Camrys. More money has to go into the suspension which means that $50k number becomes unrealistic.
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Aug 24, 2023 20:19
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Twerk from Home posted:I think the medium term is looking worse than that: Rich people will have EVs and somewhere to charge them at their houses, poorer people will not, and once a majority of higher income Americans have gone EV there's no reason politically to keep gasoline prices low, and the entire oil industry knows it faces a long-term demand slide and will be thinking about ways to maximize profits during that period. Sad but reasonable prediction .
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Aug 24, 2023 20:20
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Twerk from Home posted:I honestly don't get why Tesla isn't dropping the Model 3 drivetrain into a 2 seat roadster, it seems like they have everything they need to sell a $50k electric roadster but they don't do it. Leaked photos of the CYBERCOUPE: 
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Aug 24, 2023 20:25
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Depending on where you live, solar won't be able to get you off grid. In Wisconsin for example it's not a great idea unless you've got an unused acre and can put panels on the ground away from tree cover, and even then it's not terribly efficient. That combined with what the electrical grid can handle power wise means we are decades from mass ev adoption. Not to mention range issues, charging times, etc. There are places it makes sense to own an ev but I don't see mass adoption nationwide until solar becomes much more efficient or with massive infrastructure upgrades.
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Aug 24, 2023 20:27
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Twerk from Home posted:Mazda has a patent for human-liftable swappable batteries: https://www.thedrive.com/news/mazda-rotary-sports-car-with-hot-swappable-hybrid-batteries-is-an-amazing-concept. Their patents in general are heading towards something like front hub motors + an electric motor in the transmission (like the big Ford hybrids). Those look very similar to the Honda Power Pack, which I guess was designed in conjunction with Yamaha and a couple other key manufacturers as a industry standard for scooters in SE asia     The honda motorcycle ones are ~1300 Wh each so 4x would yield ~5200Wh... maybe the connection standard is shared, but maybe the 4 wheeler EV modules could be longer? Although the patent dimensions look about correct for the current HPP modules. The 90 mile battery pack ev west sells for a classic VW bug is 5800 Wh https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=463  https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2022/c220330beng.html quote:ENEOS Holdings, Inc. (President: Ota Katsuyuki; “ENEOS”), Honda Motor Co., Ltd. (Director, President and Representative Executive Officer: Mibe Toshihiro; “Honda”), Kawasaki Motors, Ltd., (Representative Director, President and Chief Executive Officer:Ito Hiroshi; “Kawasaki Motors”), Suzuki Motor Corporation (Representative Director and President: Suzuki Toshihiro; “Suzuki”) and Yamaha Motor Co., Ltd. (President, CEO and Representative Director: Hidaka Yoshihiro; “Yamaha Motor”) announced that a new company named Gachaco, Inc. (“Gachaco”) will be established https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/piaggio-ktm-honda-yamaha-set-up-swappable-batteries-consortium-2021-09-06/ Hadlock fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 20:38
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Some funny sales numbers I noticed: Apparently GM sells about 5x as many Corvettes in the US as all VW GTI / Golf variants combined: https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/volkswagen-golf-sales-figures/ https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/chevrolet-corvette-sales-figures/ Golf / GTI / Golf R annual sales:  Corvette annual sales: 
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Aug 24, 2023 20:48
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Haramstufe Rot posted:Heck, Japanese and Korean manufacturers already straight up don't sell any of their cool cars anymore in Europe. You can only buy soap blobs from them. Two things, first Japanese cars still face import tariffs into the UK and EU, so they're at a disadvantage to start with, secondly what cool cars exactly? There's not many left. You don't appear to get the WRX, no Z either. What else is missing? SlowBloke posted:https://www.autoweek.com/news/a44783913/armored-bmw-i7-protection-ev-sedan/ The capabilities of 'The Beast' presidential limo are obviously classified, but just by looking at the thing you can tell it's far in excess of the BMW. Look at the size of the doors alone: 
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Aug 24, 2023 20:49
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It can briefly serve as a boat, thrust via wheel rotation
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Aug 24, 2023 20:50
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PneumonicBook posted:Depending on where you live, solar won't be able to get you off grid. In Wisconsin for example it's not a great idea unless you've got an unused acre and can put panels on the ground away from tree cover, and even then it's not terribly efficient. We’re decades away from mass EV adoption anyway because cars on the road simple don’t turn over that quickly. The rosiest estimates for 100% of cars on the road being EVs still have that date 20+ years off. The grid can handle current and short term demand and only modest year of year expansion is required to keep up with growth. Whether that actually happens and whether resiliency is addressed is a social and political problem, not a technical one. I don’t think the US is very likely to solve any big social or political problems any time soon, but it’s certainly technically feasible.
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Aug 24, 2023 20:54
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Tesla is focused on becoming a volume manufacturer, 2 seat roadster is pretty much the opposite of that. The model 3 is also a pretty long car. Its a foot longer than a Cayman and 2.5 feet longer than a Miata. You’d either be making a really big roadster or you’d lose a lot of space to put batteries which means cutting range. Plus it’s a lot harder to hide the weight from batteries when you’re competing with other sports cars and not Accords and Camrys. More money has to go into the suspension which means that $50k number becomes unrealistic. Irony is most cars rarely have more than a single person in them and rarely drive more than 50 miles a day. There SHOULD be a market for zippy little shortish range EVs but the public are just too loving dumb and the industry takes full advantage of this.
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Aug 24, 2023 21:09
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You need a garage for them and if you have all that why not just have a full size car. I can see the appeal in a city but you don’t normally have garages in cities
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Aug 24, 2023 22:02
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Check this out: I'd rather not have cars in cities at all.
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Aug 24, 2023 22:03
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BuckyDoneGun posted:Two things, first Japanese cars still face import tariffs into the UK and EU, so they're at a disadvantage to start with, secondly what cool cars exactly? There's not many left. You don't appear to get the WRX, no Z either. What else is missing? Yeah I mean BRZ, WRZ and Z, maybe others. Also, all the sedans from most marques will only get 2-liter 4cyl versions from now one, whereas the US gets a range of motors. Oh and also, cars in Europe are like 1,5x more expensive anyway. =(
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Aug 24, 2023 22:18
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You will still be able to buy lots of fun gas cars on the used market. I recommend it even now!
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Aug 24, 2023 22:25
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KakerMix posted:Check this out: I'd rather not have cars in cities at all.
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Aug 24, 2023 22:38
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KakerMix posted:Check this out: I'd rather not have cars in cities at all. Cities are for people, not for cars. There's been a shift towards bikes over here, my home town has been putting in enormous cycle lanes with bike priority on some major routes into town. None of these are just painted lanes either, they've torn the roads up and narrowed them, stopping cars parking along them. It's all annoying the poo poo out of drivers and it's funny to me. Last time I drove in it took me forever to get anywhere, drivers sat raging while cyclists just tootled past. People are incredibly stupid so I think it will take them a while to realise cars suck poo poo in cities and to use alternative transportation. There's talk of a very light rail system going in too which would be rad. gently caress the roads off for cars, run buses, trams and trains regularly and let me read a book on my way into town.
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Aug 24, 2023 22:43
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