|
It's fair to say that Octopussy is overshadowed by its predecessor (a soft reboot after Moonraker) and its successor (The One With Chris Walken). I don't think it has as many weird parts as FYEO (e.g: Kriegler, the ice skating girl who has a crush on a man at least three times her age  ).
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 15:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 11:00 |
|
|
gohuskies posted:Octopussy is legitimately an upper-tier Bond movie. It's very much a "comedy Bond" which some people hate (I have no idea why, comedy is an integral part of the franchise) but there are tons of great scenes. The cold open in particular is a perfect little mini-movie of its own mission. For me the movie is less than the sum of its parts. I agree that the clown bomb scene is a great, tense scene and the costuming actually heightens the tension rather than taking it away (it is, somehow, exactly what 009 was wearing when he failed his mission). I love Berkoff's wild presentation at the start of the movie, and his specific plot is probably the most down to Earth of the entire Moore series which gives it more juice. The hunting party scene has the bones of a great set-piece interrupted by two very sore thumb joke moments, and then they just let Bond get away to a tour boat when they were going to readily kill him in broad daylight on the back of a tuk tuk earlier. The finale at the Monsoon Palace feels out of place also, like the producers forgot they had a villain to dispatch and wrote up a very bizarre scene to move all their chess pieces back onto the board one last time. How do the guards, who have had at least Magda staying at the palace, not recognize the circus troupe? I will say it's pretty funny that Kamal Khan gets his "kill Bond" plan shot down by Octopussy with Bond gloating right there, but I feel that kind of strips him of his menace as a villain. He's constantly shown up by everyone around him, which might not make for the most threatening villain in the series, but definitely one of the funniest. Oh and at the end, he's seen stashing some counterfeiting plates into his escape sack, so why... does he need to fence jewelry... if he can just print money wherever he goes?
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 15:56
|
|
|
The 009 scene scared the hell out of me as a kid for some reason.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 16:10
|
|
|
Octopussy has the best Moore love interest imo. Going from her to the girl young enough to be his granddaughter in View to a Kill is rough.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 17:26
|
|
|
peekaboo gangster posted:
Stamper is fun but the real MVP of that movie is Dr. Kaufmann. And apparently there were cut scenes where Stamper stomps on people and Ricky Jay threw playing cards as a weapon, both a mistake to take out imo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 17:53
|
|
|
There's this insane look Stamper gets on his face in the final fight after Bond stabs him and that expression is a high watermark for all the henchmen fights of the series.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 18:01
|
|
|
Lobok posted:There's this insane look Stamper gets on his face in the final fight after Bond stabs him and it is a high watermark for all the henchmen fights of the series. I want to say I've heard he was supposed to have some kind of thing where pain was sexually pleasurable to him, and sexy things were painful. His reaction might have been part of that earlier characterization... along with his weirdly specific torture tools (from Kaufmann, no less! RIP). Cacator posted:Ricky Jay threw playing cards as a weapon, both a mistake to take out imo. ok what the gently caress this is too cool to have taken out, why hasn't Bond fought a magician yet
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 18:05
|
|
|
Cacator posted:Stamper is fun but the real MVP of that movie is Dr. Kaufmann. And apparently there were cut scenes where Stamper stomps on people and Ricky Jay threw playing cards as a weapon, both a mistake to take out imo. I have no idea how movie production works but with Austin Powers having come out 6 months prior to TND, I wonder if they hastily edited out a bunch of the silly henchman type stuff to avoid unfavorable comparisons It'd be too bad if this was the motivation because TND owns and having even more of the classic camp would make it better. The severe lack of silly henchmen in the Craig era aside from Hinx is largely what makes the entire thing into a forgettable sludge to me
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 19:15
|
|
|
Several of the Craig movies are pretty good, but there's just no joy in those movies. The older I get the more I find myself appreciating the Moore films, because sometimes I just want a silly action adventure.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 19:49
|
|
|
peekaboo gangster posted:I want to say I've heard he was supposed to have some kind of thing where pain was sexually pleasurable to him, and sexy things were painful. His reaction might have been part of that earlier characterization... along with his weirdly specific torture tools (from Kaufmann, no less! RIP). I mean, his whole thing was chakras, right? Makes sense that he would be a pain-pleasure guy so I can definitely believe that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 19:59
|
|
|
As I inch closer to my 40s I too find a little more than a quantum of solace in the sillier flicks of days past. Much as I really enjoy Craig's first three outings (Quantum has some editing issues but I really like how it feels like an old-school type Bond adventure) there's just a cloud of gloom hanging over the proceedings. Probably doesn't help that he's promoted, quits, is re-hired, is put on shoot-on-sight administrative leave, is re-hired again, retires after being shot, is re-hired again and then retires to his boss' face over the course of four movies. Does his employment status change in the fifth flick? Buddy, you better believe it. I think that might have also been what my former boss was complaining about when he dismissed Skyfall. Great movie but after the Bond-Man Begins setup of CR and QOS I can see how he wanted a nice, zippy return to form instead of what we got. At least they were starting to go in that direction with Primo and the Poison Garden in NTTD... it just takes two thirds of the movie to get there, and by that point I'm checked out.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 20:15
|
|
|
peekaboo gangster posted:I want to say I've heard he was supposed to have some kind of thing where pain was sexually pleasurable to him, and sexy things were painful. His reaction might have been part of that earlier characterization... along with his weirdly specific torture tools (from Kaufmann, no less! RIP). I guess they partially saved that for Renard.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 20:17
|
|
|
peekaboo gangster posted:I think that might have also been what my former boss was complaining about when he dismissed Skyfall. Great movie but after the Bond-Man Begins setup of CR and QOS I can see how he wanted a nice, zippy return to form instead of what we got. At least they were starting to go in that direction with Primo and the Poison Garden in NTTD... it just takes two thirds of the movie to get there, and by that point I'm checked out. I think this was a weird thing about the Nolan Batman movies, too, and part of why Dark Knight Rises feels so off. Begins and Dark Knight establish, “This is Batman,” and other than Two-Dace being dead, we’re basically off to the races for a clear Batman universe (though a little more antagonistic towards the police than usual). A lot of people expected the next movie, whether Nolan did it or not, to be, “And now we have Batman.” But it turned out Nolan had zero interest in telling that story, so we got a movie that started with Batman retired for years, since the last movie. And he comes back out of retirement for one last mission. And I remember thinking myself, “I guess no other Batman stories here.” The Craig Bond movies and the Nolan Batman movies share a lot of DNA, but part of it is only being interested in telling an origin story or an ending story. And that’s not necessarily bad. But it is a choice.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 20:25
|
|
|
Casino Royale is certainly a reboot but is it much of an origin story? Does it really tell us anything about who he will become? Or offer fresh insights? He's already a double-0 as the title sequence starts and there's nothing else later in the film about coming to grips with how to kill people in cold blood and he doesn't have to learn any new skills. So as far as his job goes there's no learning curve. I guess one could say he goes from being Really Good But Not Infallible at cards to Unstoppable. The scene with Vesper and Bond reading each other on the train is one of the highlights of the franchise but the idea of Bond seeing women as disposable feels like something that is either meant as a meta commentary on the franchise or it's meant to explain the unseen connections between movies rather than something about the character seen in movies themselves: Women in one movie are just inexplicably gone in the next. Except that's not always true anyway because we know Bond falls in love with Tracy, proceeds to fall in love with Vesper, and then unknown at the time but in a later Craig film he falls in love again! And when that happens the movie directly after deals with it. I think the strongest case to be made is that he's presented as basically muscle who feels like an imposter in the upper echelons of society and it's Vesper who turns him into a real gentleman spy but I don't know how much deeper that gets beyond her showing him how much better at dressing him she is.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 22:00
|
|
|
Lobok posted:Casino Royale is certainly a reboot but is it much of an origin story? Does it really tell us anything about who he will become? Or offer fresh insights? Some of it is surface level, but it's definitely there. You have the opening 00 kill scene, as you mention. You have him not giving a drat if the vodka martini is shaken or stirred. You have him in full suit and tie, and the theme song by the end of the movie. But you also have him falling in love with Vesper, and then in full, "The bitch is dead," mode by the end, establishing that this is the Bond that will proceed to gently caress around and not care. (Tracy is a giant exception to this.) Granted that's a bit muddled by him already doing that earlier in the movie. But I think it tries to establish that this is why Bond won't love again. Which, to my earlier point, is skipped over just a few movies later when he falls in love again, to the annoyance of some people. I love Skyfall. But I started wondering where all the Bond movies went missing in the middle. We went from young Bond to old, out of touch Bond real fast. edit: I also just realized that I'm kind of defending a bad characterization of Bond that should probably die, which was not my original intention, so I'm gonna go ahead and back out. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Aug 24, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 22:16
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:I love Skyfall. But I started wondering where all the Bond movies went missing in the middle. We went from young Bond to old, out of touch Bond real fast. I guess that's what that terrible 007 Legends game was supposed to establish: that Craig Bond somehow went through the plots of every classic Bond film. Then Spectre suddenly pissed that away by introducing a new Blofeld.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 22:23
|
|
|
I give Skyfall a pass because it's meant to be a 50th anniversary retrospective for the franchise and not a direct sequel to QoS. Then they hosed everything up in Spectre.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 22:27
|
|
|
Cacator posted:I give Skyfall a pass because it's meant to be a 50th anniversary retrospective for the franchise and not a direct sequel to QoS. Then they hosed everything up in Spectre. Yeah, Spectre is a bit too miserable for me to really enjoy. And I largely feel the same way about NTTD, outside of Ana de Armas' scene, which was absolute joy in movie form.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 22:29
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:Yeah, Spectre is a bit too miserable for me to really enjoy. And I largely feel the same way about NTTD, outside of Ana de Armas' scene, which was absolute joy in movie form. only good scene in the movie.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 22:31
|
|
|
And it remains the last good thing she's done in film.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 22:32
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:And it remains the last good thing she's done in film. Eh, it was only 2 years ago, and Blonde was an ambitious failure (which by all accounts was terrible). She's only made 4 movies since NTTD. Given her successes before that, I'd say give her time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 22:34
|
|
|
Uncle Boogeyman posted:only good scene in the movie. I liked the scene running up the tower and ending with a memorable henchman death. Not sure it's a "scene" or just a setpiece.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2023 23:48
|
|
|
pretty soft girl posted:I have no idea how movie production works but with Austin Powers having come out 6 months prior to TND, I wonder if they hastily edited out a bunch of the silly henchman type stuff to avoid unfavorable comparisons Austin Powers definitely ruined the Brosnan Bonds. They didn't know how to do serious and didn't know how to do camp that wasn't being actively parodied. I never warmed up to TND. It's a confused mess. A media tycoon uses his corporation to generate fake news and influence people, but also he has a stealth ship that sinks warships and shoots down fighter planes to start wars. Either could have been a good movie on it's own.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2023 00:58
|
|
|
Cacator posted:I give Skyfall a pass because it's meant to be a 50th anniversary retrospective for the franchise and not a direct sequel to QoS. Then they hosed everything up in Spectre. In my opinion this is one of the problems with Die Another Day that I can somewhat forgive it for. It's the 40th anniversary and they tried to stuff it full of homages and references, mostly for bad.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2023 01:12
|
|
|
Casino Royale is one of the best movies in the Bond franchise, but I always found it a little strange that supposedly it's the origin of the cold-hearted James Bond, but he kind of seems like the same guy he was at the beginning of the movie. Sure he softens up a bit in the middle, but is there anything that indicates pre-Vesper Bond wasn't already a callous womanizer?
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2023 01:35
|
|
|
Human Tornada posted:Casino Royale is one of the best movies in the Bond franchise, but I always found it a little strange that supposedly it's the origin of the cold-hearted James Bond, but he kind of seems like the same guy he was at the beginning of the movie. Sure he softens up a bit in the middle, but is there anything that indicates pre-Vesper Bond wasn't already a callous womanizer? It's not really just the women thing even though people fixate on that. The whole affair has destroyed his ability to trust anyone at all. That's why they have the bit where M baits him with "at least this clears Matthis" and Bond openly declares it doesn't despite Matthis being a trusted man on his side pretty much the whole movie.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2023 02:55
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:Yeah, Spectre is a bit too miserable for me to really enjoy. And I largely feel the same way about NTTD, outside of Ana de Armas' scene, which was absolute joy in movie form. Spectre is such a monumental drag, which is a real shame since there's the kernel of a good story (Nine Eyes) in there, it's just bloated with BCU nonsense that, as a longtime fan, I frankly do not care about. No Time has a few bits in it that I like, like the aforementioned Cuba scene, and I'm a big fan of the character of Nomi up until the Poison Island; I also enjoyed our poo poo-talking accented coward villain Obruchev - but again, up until the Poison Island. Everyone's character takes a nose dive once they set foot on that drat thing. At least the movie is pretty to look at. Normally a big fan of Hans Zimmer's stuff but his NTTD soundtrack is one of my least favorites in the series. Reliance on a theme from OHMSS that has never been given any space in the Craig movies is weird and many of the other tracks feel... too saccharine and produced? Final Ascent makes me roll my eyes every time it comes on my big work playlist. The music for the Cuba scene is probably the highlight, but I still prefer Die Another Day's Cuban score to this one. Actually, theme song aside, DAD's score kind of slaps.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2023 14:37
|
|
|
Spectre's ending is like something out of a parody.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2023 15:05
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:Spectre's ending is like something out of a parody. the big twist is literally out of a parody, that parody being Austin Powers in: Goldmember
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2023 15:11
|
|
|
Uncle Boogeyman posted:the big twist is literally out of a parody, that parody being Austin Powers in: Goldmember Can't wait for the far-too-late fourth Austin Powers movie (No Time to Shag? The World Is Not (Groovy) Enough? ugh) which will have an obvious flashback where Dr. Evil is shown to have orchestrated every single bad event in Austin's life, from him stubbing his toes, getting called for jury service, being cut off by some rear end in a top hat driver on the highway, etc. I've already written half the movie here, Michael. Ball's in your court.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2023 15:18
|
|
|
peekaboo gangster posted:Can't wait for the far-too-late fourth Austin Powers movie (No Time to Shag? The World Is Not (Groovy) Enough? ugh) which will have an obvious flashback where Dr. Evil is shown to have orchestrated every single bad event in Austin's life, from him stubbing his toes, getting called for jury service, being cut off by some rear end in a top hat driver on the highway, etc. I've already written half the movie here, Michael. Ball's in your court. I have fond memories of laughing my entire rear end off in the theatre during the first Austin Powers but god no. Please god no.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2023 16:25
|
|
|
peekaboo gangster posted:I once tried to figure out what exactly the deal was with the fake and real eggs and it cooked my brain for a good bit. Is 009 investigating the Crime Circus or the smuggled Fabrege Eggs? How come the USSR isn't investigating the eggs if Britain is? Is Sotheby's in on the scheme, since apparently Khan has been fencing the stuff through there - surely their people would be able to tell a fake recreation from the real one. The best I can work out is that Orlov and Kamal Khan have been fencing stolen jewels from the USSR treasury and having their expert remake them so nobody can tell they're missing... but then how do you sell a national treasure of the USSR in one of the most popular auction houses on the planet without giving up the ghost? If Sotheby's is advertising them as fake, then they're not worth nearly as much, but So... I'll have a go at unpacking all of this. I think 009 was investigating the counterfeit jewelry ring, which includes the Fabrege Egg he had on him when he died. The circus is just the cover for Octopussy to transport those counterfeits out of the USSR to the West on the Soviet's behalf. 009 must have infiltrated the circus, but had his cover blown, either while he was trying to secret the egg away or some time before that. The USSR is in on the counterfeit jewelry scheme... or at least Orlov is aware and part of the scheme, while the rest of the government is not. It isn't really clear why Orlov is doing this. Either the USSR needs the hard currency that the jewelry fetches on the open market or Orlov is hoarding the money for his own, undisclosed mechinations. Sotheby's is not in on this because they are getting the actual items from Khan, not the fakes. The only fake we know that was sold by Sotheby's was the one Bond swapped for the real egg at the auction house. As for how the whole thing goes down without giving up the ghost? The Soviet government may think that they're actually selling the fakes at auction, but aren't aware that Orlov and Khan are actually selling the real items. Or the Soviet government isn't aware of the scheme at all. After all, if I'm remembering the scene in the vault correctly, it all looks very disorganized and cluttered. It gives off the impression that there might not necessarily be a good accounting of what holdings the Soviet Union actually has and therefore items can disappear without being accounted for.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2023 20:06
|
|
|
DarkSol posted:So... I'll have a go at unpacking all of this. The USSR is NOT in on the counterfeit jewelry scheme at all - Orlov is doing it on his own. Orlov's motivation is that he wants to invade Western Europe, but the leaders of the USSR won't let him (we see this in the briefing scene on the awesome set). He thinks that if a nuclear bomb goes off "accidentally" at an American base in western Germany then there will be a popular movement for disarmament, then Europe will be even more vulnerable, and he'll get permission to invade. He explains all this very quickly and it can easily be missed. He hires Khan to use Octopussy's circus to smuggle the bomb into western Germany (unbeknownst to Octopussy of course) and pays Khan with the jewelry. I think the rest of it, you're generally correct about.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2023 21:03
|
|
|
peekaboo gangster posted:Spectre is such a monumental drag, which is a real shame since there's the kernel of a good story (Nine Eyes) in there, it's just bloated with BCU nonsense that, as a longtime fan, I frankly do not care about. No Time has a few bits in it that I like, like the aforementioned Cuba scene, and I'm a big fan of the character of Nomi up until the Poison Island; I also enjoyed our poo poo-talking accented coward villain Obruchev - but again, up until the Poison Island. Everyone's character takes a nose dive once they set foot on that drat thing. At least the movie is pretty to look at. All the Time in The World is in the movie as foreshadowing to Bonds death and his wife surviving. That's the only other Bond movie with a "serious" death, with All the Time...being the theme song to his wifes mortality, and opening with it playing in a similar driving scene basically told me Bond was going to die in this movie. Then, with Bond dying, it ends with the actual song which is fine. It only played once and at the end, so it makes sense. Final Ascent is pretty cool and I love how the score is so interwoven with the main theme and hints it in and out, but out of Zimmer scores, it is pretty much just okay.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2023 13:32
|
|
|
Darko posted:All the Time in The World is in the movie as foreshadowing to Bonds death and his wife surviving. That's the only other Bond movie with a "serious" death, with All the Time...being the theme song to his wifes mortality, and opening with it playing in a similar driving scene basically told me Bond was going to die in this movie. Then, with Bond dying, it ends with the actual song which is fine. Yeah, the song was a giant sign advertising red flags painted into the scene. On the other hand, the movies fixation with ohmss made them reprise its theme when bond is gearing up in mi6, and that was entirely worth the movie spoiling itself. It also was a bit fun for me because I wasn't expecting Bond to be the one to die at the end.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2023 14:05
|
|
|
I have Message From An Old Friend on my trail-running playlist, which is an absolutely perfect scenario for it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 10:31
|
|
|
Ahh, I have all the soundtracks including Never Say Never Again on a work playlist, so in my shuffling of them all I've come to really appreciate certain soundtracks over others. It's why I prefer the DAD Cuba score to the NTTD Cuba one; something about the DAD song gels better for me. As far as the OHMSS theme in NTTD, it's more that the theme just appears out of nowhere in the movie. While a fan of the Bond series will immediately clock it and understand its emotional impact, someone like my child will just think it's an interesting choice. I like that the theme song is an inversion of the OHMSS theme itself but outside of that neat bit, it doesn't work for me at all - it's too quiet and whispery to give it the emotional gravitas I feel it should have. Considering the contents of the movie, I was looking for something closer to Skyfall, I guess. At least the soundtrack as a whole works better than Spectre, which is the exact same soundtrack as Skyfall. I wish I was kidding. There's only one track from the entire series that I would go as far as to say it's outright Bad, and that has the pleasure of being Only Myself to Blame from TWINE. It's such a drag that I had to specifically make a playlist of the soundtracks to remove it from the rotation. Love whenever Live and Let Die or The Living Daylights comes on the rotation. Diamonds Are Forever, Die Another Day, and Goldeneye have all grown on me plenty to the point where I really enjoy most of Eric Serra's stuff. Octopussy, Golden Gun and Moonraker all have great 'classic' soundtracks and its impossible to not love the wild guitar wailing on A View to a Kill's soundtrack. Really wish we could find a way to combine David Arnold and John Barry.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2023 14:22
|
|
|
Every time I rewatch Goldeneye I appreciate Eric Serra’s score so much more (Monte Carlo car chase excepted). Something about the deep, metal-drum basses and tiny tingling trebles and abstracted vocalisations just works so well for the uneasy post-Soviet tone of the whole movie.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 14:48
|
|
|
I'd place 'Whispering Statues' (I think that's the name), the music for when Bond meets Janus in Statue Park, as one of the great pieces of scoring for the Bond films. It's a perfect choice for that particular set of scenes - unsettling but epic. The score for the level in the N64 game is also excellent.
F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Aug 29, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 14:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 11:00 |
|
|
F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I'd place 'Whispering Statues' (I think that's the name), the music for when Bond meets Janus in Statue Park, as one of the great pieces of scoring for the Bond films. It's a perfect choice for that particular set of scenes - unsettling but epic. The score for the level in the N64 game is also excellent. I'm a big fan of Dish Out of Water on that one - the mysterious and ominous soundscape giving way to a building, dreadful theme of the hidden satellite dish, complete with the hollow metal tube clanging percussion and everything. Perfection. Can't tell you how many times I'd play the Cradle level of GE64, planting remote mines on the bottom platform with the all guns / infinite ammo cheats so I could blow Trevelyan away at the very end. Played it so much I found out there's a separate cutscene if you can knock him off the platform; if not, there's just the scene of Bond jumping onto the helicopter. Never played any other of the Bond games since, though I have a morbid curiosity with 007 Legends. There's no way it's that bad, is there?
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 15:29
|
|