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FlamingLiberal posted:I guess the ‘good’ news is that the attempt to turn the culture against LGBTQ people is not really working outside of the GOP base. They really waited too long to try this. I think it may have had more general pull if they had pushed harder after gay marriage was legalized. It's hard to say. The most vulnerable targets right now are trans and nonbinary people. 2023 has been a horror show for trans people, as far as human rights are concerned. While focusing ire on trans people and trans kids is actually pretty unpopular among the general population, it has been a way for conservative policy-makers to rally around a common enemy. One of the more frustrating things it that among Boomer and Gen-X liberals and centrists, there is a pretty significant amount of contempt for trans people. You can see it in places like the New York Times, the Atlantic, and the loving World Chess Federation. This is the contingent that like, views trans people as postmodern decadents and positions themselves somewhere between "just asking questions" and "defending cultural sanity against the woke illiberal millennials." It's insipid rhetoric, but I don't think it should be discounted, because it is being amplified by the ghoulish poo poo the republicans are pulling off.
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Aug 25, 2023 17:06
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Cephas posted:There is no queer literature they consider appropriate. Their explicit view is that teaching minors about gender identity or sexual orientation is "sexualizing our children and grooming them to be sexually exploited." In other words, if you teach a child that gay people exist and that it's okay to be gay, in their view, you are trying to recruit that child to be gay so that gay people can predate on them. YA lit moving from queer narratives such as "please don't murder us" and "one day I might work up the nerve to privately hold hands with another homosexual" to descriptions of blowjobs and anal really painted a target, no matter how healthy and informative the intentions of those texts. The culture showdown commenceth!
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Aug 25, 2023 17:22
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Space Fish posted:YA lit moving from queer narratives such as "please don't murder us" and "one day I might work up the nerve to privately hold hands with another homosexual" to descriptions of blowjobs and anal really painted a target, no matter how healthy and informative the intentions of those texts. The culture showdown commenceth! Book challenges have been happening forever, and a lot of books have been challenged for depicting sexual situations. When the sexual situations depicted were hetero, the books were targeted in singular. So you'd have The Giver challenged, for instance, for depicting wet dreams about the main character taking a bath with the girl next door while naked. But now there is a coordinated attack against all queer content. Teachers are getting fired for showing a Disney movie that has a gay character in the background. It's happening at a grassroots level with Moms for Liberty, and it's happening at a top-down level with governors and legislators. It's also reaching this point where it's spiraling away from queer content to any non-puritan content, like with the principal who was fired for showing the statue of david to his students. The content matters less than the political will. It's not a good-faith debate about appropriate developmental stages in children or something; it's an attempt at a hostile takeover.
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Aug 25, 2023 17:44
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Panfilo posted:Something I'm genuinely curious about is what literature they actually think is appropriate for this subject matter. They'll likely sidestep the issue by insisting they don't care if 18+ people read the book, but if you really corner them on what books people should read to understand the subject better, what would they recommend besides "nothing"? Yeah, they would recommend "nothing". Moms for Liberty is kinda like the Tea Party from the early '10's, in that it loves to pretend like it's this sudden groundswell of totally normal citizens that Just Have Concerns. In reality it's a well-funded somewhat-media-friendly spinoff of a regressive movement that's been going on for decades, with the explicit (but private) goal of getting rid of any form of sexual education whatsoever. Banning any sort of sexual expression in public (under the banner of "pornography") is their next step, but they've figured out that they can achieve their short-term goals by attacking trans representation and tame sex scenes in books that a teenager might have access to.
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Aug 25, 2023 17:46
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...! posted:Really? Just about every news organization there is heavily reported on her right after the insurrection. She was one of the instrumental Oathkeepers on the ground. oh yeah? weird. i MAY have heard about her as probably some random trans MAGA dipshit who got caught up in j6 (which would still be funny on its own), but i didn't know she was an oathkeeper as well. nice to see even extremist gun nut groups engage in diversity hiring as well  anyway, in other news, the Fresh and Fit podcast got permanently demonitized on youtube and Myron (Fit) was so devastated he literally left his studio crying (in his underwear) while still filming 
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Aug 25, 2023 18:32
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FlamingLiberal posted:I guess the ‘good’ news is that the attempt to turn the culture against LGBTQ people is not really working outside of the GOP base. They really waited too long to try this. I think it may have had more general pull if they had pushed harder after gay marriage was legalized. Been thinking a lot about how NC had to back off of the "bathroom bill" in 2016 after a bunch of companies threatened to pull out of the state and such. Now Florida is making it a misdemeanor to use the wrong bathroom in any state-owned facility, and just made it an automatic firing on second offense for college faculty. What was once a big controversy is now basically a baseline expectation for GOP legislatures. They seem to have realized that a state doing this alone can be singled out for action, but if they all do it together then nothing happens. And on a lower level, things like the Target controversy where they caved and pulled a bunch of merch because it just wasn't worth having to deal with people damaging their stores and harassing their employees, the Bud Light mess, and so on. It doesn't really matter what % of people support something if most of them are just going to shut up because they don't want to deal with assholes harassing them for being a "groomer."
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Aug 25, 2023 19:55
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OneEightHundred posted:On the other hand the resistance to it is kind of failing. "Well they voted for this, this is what Floridians get" "Karma for voting for Desantis in a landslide" "lol it's Florida, bugsbunny.gif" Etc etc. (Like people here didn't just suffer the worst voter suppression in decades, like we didn't lose to Desantis to first time by like only 10k votes.) It's really annoying to see absolutely no national level boycott drive. No one wants to give up their Disney Vacation or their Summer Beach Trip. Everyone's perfectly fine going to Miami for a weekend, gently caress the citizens of Florida they DESERVE IT. Sorry to go off on a random post but I feel abandoned in this hellhole. People are uprooting their lives and leaving the state and we can't even get like, a Taylor Swift boycott or whatever.
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Aug 25, 2023 20:12
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https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/ I keep this link handy to educate people that trans people were one of the first groups targeted by the Nazis. This clinic performed the first successful gender reassignment surgery and the Nazis destroyed it and destroyed every bit of research they could find. Trans people are natural targets for the insecure men attracted to what I have taken to calling Mussolini's cult of fragile masculinity the mere suggestion that gender is not innate and inherent triggers there insecurities and since since they tend to emotionally stunted the lash out at trans people to prove just how "manly" they are. Same thing happens with all homophobes, it's not that they are secretly gay. It's that they believe that their peers will accuse them of being gay so they lash out, like most things conservatives do it's all virtue signaling "if I were gay I would I be beating this f$$* up?" It pisses me off to no end when I see Democrats, leftists or purported liberals suggesting that maybe we shouldn't die on this hill to which I say gently caress that. Never again means never again, no one gets sacrificed to the Fash. Even if you think that it's icky or weird or whatever you have to recognize that the way a fascist minority (and they are always a minority) gains power is by sewing division amongst their enemies. Fascists always target the least powerful first, they go for the freaks and weirdos because most normies don't identify with those freaks and weirdos so they don't circle the wagons around them. Which is always a mistake because every group sacrificed for temporary piece reduces the ability to fight back. There is a reason herd animals will circle the weak and vulnerable when faced with a predator. It's because it doesn't matter how juicy that elephant calf looks those angry mama's and bulls will generally convince a predator to look elsewhere for a meal. We need to all become those angry protectors. Liberals leftists and progressives need to look those fascists down and make it clear in no uncertain terms that they not get a free meal and that even if they could win they're going to pay in blood and pain. I also like to remind folks that the reason the Nazis are the most reviled group in human history isn't because of their economic policies. It's that they built and operated literal murder factories, not just work camps where one will probably die, but literal factories that existed for no reason other than to murder men women and children then dispose of their remains. Stalin was a monster as were colonialists and tyrants throughout history but no group has ever matched the cold calculating evil of the Nazis. The MAGAts may not be there yet but that's where they are headed so they have to be stopped.
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Aug 25, 2023 21:45
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Chuds have appropriated that story by implying that it was the Nazis themselves super into transgenderism and equivocating doctors performing gender reassignment surgery to Dr. Mengle performing horrific atrocities. I mean tell that story to Chaya Raichik and come back to me with her response. You better believe they flipped that narrative long ago.
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Aug 25, 2023 22:26
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Panfilo posted:Chuds have appropriated that story by implying that it was the Nazis themselves super into transgenderism and equivocating doctors performing gender reassignment surgery to Dr. Mengle performing horrific atrocities. The fact that Nazis lie doesn't change reality and frankly trying to convince them is pointless, the objective is to bring all of those the CHUDs hate together for common collective defense. Oh don't remember if this came up yet but assume everyone remembers that "Rich men north of Richmond" dude the CHUDs were all excited about. https://twitter.com/SawyerHackett/status/1695153139941265479?t=YsYMrxAzQybLrNkTKfBw0Q&s=19 Turns out he doesn't want to be associated with them and says that he got a chuckle out of them playing the song at the debate because it was written about them and definitely wasn't about Joe Biden.
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Aug 25, 2023 22:36
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Mr Interweb posted:oh yeah? weird. i MAY have heard about her as probably some random trans MAGA dipshit who got caught up in j6 (which would still be funny on its own), but i didn't know she was an oathkeeper as well. nice to see even extremist gun nut groups engage in diversity hiring as well She was actually one of the Oathkeeper leaders until she denounced them during her trial. She's now trying to actually use her struggles with being trans as a defense against her charges, saying that that's what drove her to right wing militancy and belief in conspiracy theories. Yeah. Diversity hire indeed. Edit: I think (don't quote me on this) I remember reading that she joined well before she realized she was a woman and by the time she started transitioning she was much too entrenched in their operations for them to easily oust her. So they essentially had to refer to her as "one of the good ones" but I'm sure a lot of the rank and file would have eagerly killed her if they thought they could get away with it. ...! fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Aug 25, 2023 |
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Aug 25, 2023 23:02
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Cephas posted:There is no queer literature they consider appropriate. Their explicit view is that teaching minors about gender identity or sexual orientation is "sexualizing our children and grooming them to be sexually exploited." In other words, if you teach a child that gay people exist and that it's okay to be gay, in their view, you are trying to recruit that child to be gay so that gay people can predate on them. Yeah...I got into a few discussions about trans people at work today. I work with a trans person named Alex. And, listen. I don't pretend to understand TG issues fully and I had some interesting back and forth with a few people about the most important thing, which was "how much is this actively and negatively affecting my life?", to what detriment and exactly why - when we're discussing less than 1% of the population - is this the #1 issue for so many conservatives. Alex and I work together as partners on occasion and the "worst" thing I've had to do is adjust my pronoun game. BUt, you know what? THis is no real skin off my back whatsoever. We're not friends, we're coworkers, and Alex is the only trans person I know particularly well or who exists in my day to day routine. Alex is not loving up my life or my son's life. Republicans are. Alex can do what they want and Alex is good at their job. No one I know of has a problem with Alex. I'm far more concerned with the imminent reality of having to explain to my kid why the Prager U videos he's watching in school are bullshit and should be laughed out of the classroom. ... Along similar lines, one of the TV's in our poker room was showing the Las Vegas women's basketball team at the white house and one player was delivering a speech. It made a coworker mad, even though the sound was off and the CC was disabled. He didn't even know what she said but was very much focused on watching it. This grouchy rear end in a top hat said something like "just once, I'd like to see a player thank their teammates, their coaches and their fans for helping win a championship" instead of being a SJW. I told him that what he said he'd like to see for "once" is like 95% of what athletes say when they win a championship. Doesn't always make a juicy headline. Here it is. Skip to 15:31 to listen to this Social Justice Warrior. What a monster. https://www.c-span.org/video/?530072-1/vice-president-harris-welcomes-las-vegas-aces-white-house She said exactly what this rear end in a top hat wanted her to say. What's wrong with this? I countered with, "well, how many years has it been since women could vote? How many years since black people could vote? Did you know that black MEN could vote before black women or that it's been shortly over a decade before either happened? I asked him "so what?" if she said something about female or black progress in this country when a microphone is shoved in her face. What's the loving PROBLEM here? There is none.
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Aug 26, 2023 00:06
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Skex posted:The fact that Nazis lie doesn't change reality and frankly trying to convince them is pointless, the objective is to bring all of those the CHUDs hate together for common collective defense. Well, he's memory holed. That was a fast 15 minutes in another example of Conservatives Not Understanding Music, Art or Lyrical Intent. *cues up "Fortunate Son" and "Born in the USA" for the 4th of July fireworks show* NUance is not a strong suit with these people.
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Aug 26, 2023 00:19
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BiggerBoat posted:Well, he's memory holed. That was a fast 15 minutes in another example of Conservatives Not Understanding Music, Art or Lyrical Intent. Also recall Evanescence exploding in popularity when they were new because conservatives thought it was one of the several barely-coded Christian rock bands that were having a moment.
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Aug 26, 2023 00:56
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BiggerBoat posted:I'm far more concerned with the imminent reality of having to explain to my kid why the Prager U videos he's watching in school are bullshit and should be laughed out of the classroom.
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Aug 26, 2023 02:22
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BiggerBoat posted:Yeah...I got into a few discussions about trans people at work today. I work with a trans person named Alex. It’s pretty wild that the US vice president apparently has an admiral from the navy or something that she hands stuff off to.
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Aug 26, 2023 02:28
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Mr Interweb posted:anyway, in other news, the Fresh and Fit podcast got permanently demonitized on youtube and Myron (Fit) was so devastated he literally left his studio crying (in his underwear) while still filming Watched those two dusty "monster energy drink presents: Bro Hotep" miami coke fiends go after aba and preach, probably with the all attention is good attention mentality, figuring a youtube beef was going to get eyes on their channel and keep the growth going. Or who loving knows maybe they were just hosed off their face on toot toot and thought they were invincible either way this turned out to be one of the dumbest moves in the history of social media because a&p are both professional comedians who know how to work on their feet and pick apart their critics at a submolecular level and good goddamn they got busy Best individual portion is that f&f were like WE'RE GONNA FIGHT U, BRING IT and etienne is sporting a boxy loving haitian build and pro experience that would have deleted either of them. They reverse course on that so hard it changed time like in superman
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Aug 26, 2023 02:36
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Name Change posted:Also recall Evanescence exploding in popularity when they were new because conservatives thought it was one of the several barely-coded Christian rock bands that were having a moment. Yeah, it really pissed Amy Lee off, too. She had an interview where she said something like "we are not a loving Christian band in any way and I really wish those idiots would stop pushing this poo poo." You'd better believe all the Christian bookstores pulled their CD real quick after that.  Even actual Christian musicians aren't immune. Jennifer Knapp was a much beloved singer/songwriter in the Christian community riiiiiiight up until she came out of the closet. Her label immediately dropped her, the Christian bookstores pulled her CDs, the Christian radio stations stopped playing her songs and everyone involved denounced her as a sinner and not a True Christian. She's gone secular and is really good.
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Aug 26, 2023 02:36
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Skex posted:The fact that Nazis lie doesn't change reality and frankly trying to convince them is pointless, the objective is to bring all of those the CHUDs hate together for common collective defense. what do you guys think this dude's deal is? i'm still suspicious of this guy not being some not-so-crypto conservative since only conservatives would poo poo on people on welfare. ...! posted:She was actually one of the Oathkeeper leaders until she denounced them during her trial. She's now trying to actually use her struggles with being trans as a defense against her charges, saying that that's what drove her to right wing militancy and belief in conspiracy theories. Yeah. okay a lot of this makes way more sense now if that's the case Staluigi posted:Watched those two dusty "monster energy drink presents: Bro Hotep" miami coke fiends go after aba and preach, probably with the all attention is good attention mentality, figuring a youtube beef was going to get eyes on their channel and keep the growth going. Or who loving knows maybe they were just hosed off their face on toot toot and thought they were invincible what's great is that even after those two had that racist meltdown, yt still didn't THAT was worth punishing them over  btw did Aba and Preach ever respond to them after that?
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Aug 26, 2023 03:35
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Mr Interweb posted:what do you guys think this dude's deal is? i'm still suspicious of this guy not being some not-so-crypto conservative since only conservatives would poo poo on people on welfare.
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Aug 26, 2023 03:55
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Alice Cooper is a right-wing media personality now. I don't know why. I don't know if this is a sudden shift, or if he's leaned that way all along and this is just the first I've heard of it. He just did an interview with "Stereogum" (a daily internet publication with a focus on music news) where he repeated pretty much every hostile anti-trans talking point. https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2023/08/alice-cooper-repeats-just-about-every-anti-trans-talking-point-in-vile-rant/ I'm not linking directly to the Stereogum interview because I don't want to. The summary above has all the worst quotes, as far as I know.
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Aug 26, 2023 04:09
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Mr Interweb posted:what do you guys think this dude's deal is? i'm still suspicious of this guy not being some not-so-crypto conservative since only conservatives would poo poo on people on welfare. Small-government conservative. They still exist, mostly in rural areas.
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Aug 26, 2023 04:24
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Victar posted:Alice Cooper is a right-wing media personality now. I don't know why. I don't know if this is a sudden shift, or if he's leaned that way all along and this is just the first I've heard of it. Sadly he started moving that way a couple decades ago at least. He grew up in a pretty conservative christian background and developed some real substance abuse issues in the late 70s where supposedly he was killing a case of beer plus hard liquor a day. He got clean, but unfortunately by getting born again, which later included picking a fight in the early 2000s with shithead-for-different-reasons Marilyn Manson for being "anti-Christian" rather than for any real reason to dislike that guy ie him being a greasy sexpest.
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Aug 26, 2023 04:25
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re: trans discourse Yeah poo poo is really crushing sometimes. I often just feel like nobody is really looking out for folks like me on any side of the political spectrum really. I can only hope that right wing douchebags make anti-trans ideation look so loving dumb that everyone else moves the opposite way in response.
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Aug 26, 2023 04:59
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Victar posted:Alice Cooper is a right-wing media personality now. I don't know why. I don't know if this is a sudden shift, or if he's leaned that way all along and this is just the first I've heard of it. Carlos Santana also did a "men r men, women r women" diddy during a show recently. He walked it back, but he has a history TERFy statements. Alice Cooper got dropped by his goth makeup artist or sponsor or something.
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Aug 26, 2023 05:01
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Sadly he started moving that way a couple decades ago at least. He grew up in a pretty conservative christian background and developed some real substance abuse issues in the late 70s where supposedly he was killing a case of beer plus hard liquor a day. He got clean, but unfortunately by getting born again, which later included picking a fight in the early 2000s with shithead-for-different-reasons Marilyn Manson for being "anti-Christian" rather than for any real reason to dislike that guy ie him being a greasy sexpest. Yeah I remember him saying that Sarah Palin was good for politics. 
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Aug 26, 2023 05:06
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Mr Interweb posted:what do you guys think this dude's deal is? i'm still suspicious of this guy not being some not-so-crypto conservative since only conservatives would poo poo on people on welfare. The YouTube playlist that's associated with him is still extremely gross, and he probably should address that issue. Otherwise, the answers others have come up with are pretty accurate. He likely doesn't have a lot of good social opinions. He seems to acknowledge that he's a flawed human being at least. If he associates himself with good people then he can probably end up being okay(get rid of that playlist!) but if he ends up with folks like John Rich, then that's a bad sign. Victar posted:Alice Cooper is a right-wing media personality now. I don't know why. I don't know if this is a sudden shift, or if he's leaned that way all along and this is just the first I've heard of it. Alice Cooper joining up with Paul Stanley and Dee Snider as glam rockers that have gone TERF. Although with Cooper having a history of being a Republican, this is probably not a surprise compared to the other two.
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Aug 26, 2023 05:29
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I just noticed something that Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson and Donald Trump have in common. Why do at least three right-wing media personalities sound annoying as poo poo no matter what they're saying?
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Aug 26, 2023 05:36
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Yeah, I clearly remember my church loudly rejoicing that Alice had "seen the light" and become a Christian when I was a preteen. "He even teaches a Sunday School class!" That was over three decades ago.
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Aug 26, 2023 05:37
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Mr Interweb posted:what do you guys think this dude's deal is? i'm still suspicious of this guy not being some not-so-crypto conservative since only conservatives would poo poo on people on welfare. But then again, OneEightHundred posted:I think he's a low-information voter with a guitar. In any case he's certainly no longer of any use to the GOP.
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Aug 26, 2023 06:39
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OneEightHundred posted:I think he's a low-information voter with a guitar. It is this. He tries to explain and justify the welfare thing by saying he thinks the government is not regulating it properly, leading to too much money being spent on snacks while others go hungry, and claiming he wasn't trying to blame the poor recipients. He seems reticent to be pigeonholed as right or left. It's good that he isn't a chud but he lacks a coherent framework to put his grievances in context. The actual text of his song reads as more populist right than neutral, regardless of his intention, so I don't think this is a case of the right misunderstanding the song.
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Aug 26, 2023 09:15
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He seems like a "I don't care if you're black or white or brown or purple or blue" guy
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Aug 26, 2023 09:37
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for a song about class, his presumptions are classist as gently caress
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Aug 26, 2023 09:57
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People who want to escape a right-left dichotomy are usually right-wing but don’t want to admit it or see themselves that way. Like, saying politics is incapable of making a better world is a conservative position, even if you frame it as “both sides are clowns!”
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Aug 26, 2023 12:20
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Armitage posted:
I thought Dee Snider recanted after he realized how much he didn't know?
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Aug 26, 2023 12:48
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Mooseontheloose posted:I thought Dee Snider recanted after he realized how much he didn't know? That was Paul Stanley. Dee Snider said Paul Stanley didn't say anything wrong and did the 'so be it transsexuals, you have lost a powerful ally' thing. e: A lot of these glam dudes have always been complete poseurs, using splashes of femininity to build their brand and cash in when their entire conception of non-conformity, gender or otherwise is "pissing off your parents" and every other song being about how incredibly heterosexual they are. Now that they're old farts they think everyone wants to hear whatever half-baked utterly mainstream thought falls out of their heads because they've convinced themselves that anything they believe is countercultral. Lou Reed was a loving chaser and he was more for the girls than this. Doctor Yiff fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Aug 26, 2023 |
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Aug 26, 2023 13:17
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Mooseontheloose posted:I thought Dee Snider recanted after he realized how much he didn't know? Cooper has been a prick for something like 50 years, Alice Cooper was the BAND’S name, and he managed to get control, fire everybody, and change his name. Kinda like Ozzy re-recording his old albums to cut out his band from the royalties.
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Aug 26, 2023 13:28
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Mr Interweb posted:what's great is that even after those two had that racist meltdown, yt still didn't THAT was worth punishing them over Aba and preach kept tabs on them from then on out for sure and it was uh It was interesting Like because a&p were surgeons in identifying the parts where "red pill manosphere" poo poo had made them fragile homophobes, and this sort circuited their brains completely and had them hootin and hollerin and jumping around like orangutans in an unintended parody of their own racial self loathing This video in particular is like a forensic analysis of manosphere poo poo. Their brains broke. Absolutely majestic. One hundred percent the energy of a post you can respond to with "nice meltdown". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t26bgsjW01Y Also sorta evidence to me that they're cocaine based lifeforms at this point but you know
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Aug 26, 2023 16:16
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Weldon Pemberton posted:It is this. He tries to explain and justify the welfare thing by saying he thinks the government is not regulating it properly, leading to too much money being spent on snacks while others go hungry, and claiming he wasn't trying to blame the poor recipients. He seems reticent to be pigeonholed as right or left. I bet you could crack this guy with the right interviewer talking up "shouldn't people have the freedom to choose their own food within the program?" and maybe talk about food deserts and why "junk food" is sometimes the only food readily available. He just seems ignorant, like I was about this subject when I was young. I also thought that food stamp stuff should only be for fresh food and for cooking ingredients, etc. Sounds decent, right? Supports "farmers," doesn't support manufactured garbage food. But then I realized the entire situation and how ignorant I was on the topic and changed. Now I think not including hot food is stupid. we can save him, we can save the rich men north of richmond guy 
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Aug 26, 2023 16:45
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Doctor Yiff posted:e: A lot of these glam dudes have always been complete poseurs, using splashes of femininity to build their brand and cash in when their entire conception of non-conformity, gender or otherwise is "pissing off your parents" and every other song being about how incredibly heterosexual they are.
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Aug 26, 2023 17:31
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