|
I guess I'm just inherently reluctant to use teams with two supports at this point, because March probably can't solo-support even at E6
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2023 21:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 20:58 |
|
|
The answer of course is that Honkai Impact 3 did it. The "do various, but not every, things to get daily points to fill up the bar" is the daily cycle for HI3 and it also has an overcap stamina bar that fills at a slower rate. They've been blending what works for both HI3 and Genshin together in this game and I heard rumours that Genshin is gonna be switching to the Star Rail daily system too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2023 21:08
|
|
|
UHD posted:Stamina systems in these sorts of games rarely change unless there is a perceived need for it. GateOfD posted:Yea in Genshin, after you use your stamina…there’s like entire continents to still farm things that actually matter. i dont see how the trailblaze cap changing is meant to directly target those facts considering it's not like they're making it generate any faster. it'll still be the same rate, you just have a little more leeway to spend it without losing it
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2023 21:41
|
|
|
JT Jag posted:I have a Clara I'm in the process of building and I'm wondering if I can get away with not building March. I have a Gepard, that's practically as good right you don't have to use march with clara, no but you probably want to use one of the abundance characters over gepard. if you have luocha she does well with him and yukong or you can slot in 2 of silver wolf/pela/tingyun. moc stats definitely lean towards either using march as your solo defensive char or not using march at all. doubling up with her and a healer is gonna be slower (but incredibly safe, and a lot of people don't have enough characters built up to not do something like this.) most people have march build for defense though, so she isn't really doing much when you have a second healer. maybe at some point ill try swapping some offensive relics onto her and see how she does.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2023 21:44
|
|
|
JT Jag posted:I guess I'm just inherently reluctant to use teams with two supports at this point, because March probably can't solo-support even at E6 March absolutely can solo sustain and does some things better than Gepard. This is why I ended up benching Gepard for her. The only unit that can't reliably solo sustain is Fireblazer, but you can alleviate that by building them for break or sub dps.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2023 23:02
|
|
|
JT Jag posted:I guess I'm just inherently reluctant to use teams with two supports at this point, because March probably can't solo-support even at E6 Almost every good team is dps + secondary dps/support + support + sustain. If you're not confident in your March's ability to solo sustain, you just slot her into one of the support slots.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2023 23:48
|
|
|
March can solo sustain really well if you give her an EHR chest and an ERR rope (and your opponent isn't freeze resistant) Why is everyone so resistant to raising March, not only is she one of the best characters as a character, she's also one of the most fun to play
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 00:08
|
|
|
Izzhov posted:Why is everyone so resistant to raising March, not only is she one of the best characters as a character, she's also one of the most fun to play she sucks, OP 
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 00:17
|
|
|
Izzhov posted:Why is everyone so resistant to raising March, not only is she one of the best characters as a character, she's also one of the most fun to play I have gepard and fire trailblazer, why bother?
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 00:22
|
|
|
padijun posted:I have gepard and fire trailblazer, why bother? I have both of them as well. March's ability to control where aggro goes and her party wide crowd control shine in certain conditions that Gepard doesn't. Especially that drat stupid ape.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 01:10
|
|
|
I've been trying to simply survive MoC 9, in spite of never having pulled a 5* sustain, and while I've seen youtubers do it, I absolutely can't seem to make it through with everyone alive if I only use March 7th (at E2 with 5* ER rope and EHR chest, plus 5* speed boots) on one side. It's just so unforgiving to use her, because her kit makes it impossible to recover, if one of the elites gets an AoE attack off. Arguably it'd still be doable if I had more firepower with the right elements, I guess, but for now it seems I'm going to have to wait for Fuxuan to come save me. Edit: Fine, I take it all back!! 
darkgray fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Aug 27, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 01:11
|
|
|
I'm just trying to get more than 1 star on 6. I'm hoping Pela and March can help Dan and Welt get there. I've just got too many characters to build at once right now. Also, congrats!
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 03:05
|
|
|
I use Clara without March, but I have a super speed/energy Ting feeding her ults so she is almost always a super aggro tank on her own. Also, I have Luocha on that team so every time she retaliates she heals herself (and the party). I think March/Clara is a great gimmick but I honestly don't think it's the best way to use her, slam a Blade or a DPS Yukong in that last slot and blast. I think I'm literally saving until next Blade banner to go for E6. I'll see if my resolve holds when Topaz rolls around.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 04:40
|
|
|
I'm building up Clara right now and planning on using her with Lynx assuming I get her, Sushang, and Silver Wolf/Pela (I tend to switch those two between MoC teams pretty often depending on weaknesses). If I don't get Lynx I can use Natasha but I'd like the aggro increase.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 05:21
|
|
|
Of the units I've skipped/missed, Blade seems like the best in gameplay (total beast and fun to boot) while Kafka has the best voice lines (say goodbye to breathing). Looking forward to those reruns.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 05:45
|
|
|
Clara doesn't need March at all. I've used Clara/Bailu just fine into deep MoC and never really felt it to be too much of a struggle, and of course once I got Luocha that became the default choice. Natasha would be a lot shakier, but that's because Natasha struggles to accomplish her role in general against hard content because her numbers aren't good enough. March is a completely serviceable and usable character, but I really don't see a particular mechanical advantage to building her unless you have no other sustain options. If you like the character, sure, go nuts, you can definitely beat the content with her if you want, but if you're indifferent to her as a character, mechanically she doesn't really offer anything terribly valuable. Lynx will also fill roughly the same role as March(aggro increase + pseudo-shielding in the form of bonus max hp) while also bringing regen and an aoe healing ult to the table.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 05:47
|
|
|
March freezes everyone and does a lot of follow-up attacks for situations where that matters.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 05:58
|
|
|
Blade is fun because you get the seesaw satifaction seeing him get really low and then back up and down as his talent triggers
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 06:26
|
|
|
if your goal is to have clara getting hit freezing them seems counter productive to that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 06:26
|
|
|
Walla posted:I have both of them as well. March's ability to control where aggro goes and her party wide crowd control shine in certain conditions that Gepard doesn't. Especially that drat stupid ape. Gepard can outshield the apes just fine. I use 4pc knight of purity and belobog, ER rope, def% sphere/chest, and speed boots. I run a def% chest because I have gepard's e1, but swapping in an EHR chest isn't the end of the world, especially since it puts the belobog conditional bonus in easy reach.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 07:06
|
|
|
One upside of my Sisyphian grind for Jing Yuan equipment is now I have my Gepard equipped just like that, including defense chest but with enough effect hit rate substats to sneak over 50% for the Belobog relic set
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 07:09
|
|
|
The more I play this game, the more wrong I play it. When Blade came out, I managed 21 stars in MoC. Last round it was 16, and this go is at 14 so far.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 15:27
|
|
|
Walla posted:The more I play this game, the more wrong I play it. When Blade came out, I managed 21 stars in MoC. Last round it was 16, and this go is at 14 so far. Much like genshin's abyss, I don't really engage with MoC so I don't know for sure but I'm assuming it's like abyss where it's just been steadily getting harder / more obnoxious as time goes on.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 15:28
|
|
|
Well, there's different effects each time, which can be more or less helpful depending on your teams.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 15:44
|
|
|
As far as I'm aware, every iteration of MoC has the same enemy levels, they just swap up the special effect and which enemies are where.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 16:25
|
|
|
Apparently Honkai Star Rail already hit $500 Million gross point at about the same speed or maybe even slightly faster than Genshin Impact in July and they're just reporting on it now. I was kind of on the side of the people that figured a turn based RPG gacha game wouldn't do as well for Mihoyo as Genshin Impact and it may still prove to not have the legs that it did, but clearly the opening months have proved that notion wrong. I kind of credit the marketing hype, characters and trailers being about on par with Genshin's launch. Like most gacha games you usually get a 15 second trailer for a given major story chapter or event if that every couple of months, but with these ones it's like every single character gets their own independent marketing drive for sometimes weeks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XBXReAfDOM Dan Heng's had like 2 in just the last 2 days alone with this one coming out today, though to be honest I feel like I'm watching a trailer for Street Fighter or something with all these brush stroke lines and dragon imagery.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 17:43
|
|
|
I think it's pretty obvious that it's doing better because Genshin already exists? Like, sequels always do better than the original because the original serves as advertisement for the sequel. Star Rail isn't exactly a sequel to Genshin specifically, but it's cashing in on that brand recognition that Genshin did not have. Like, back when Genshin first came out it was mostly seen as a cool gacha Breath of the Wild, but it did well enough that their next game can be sold entirely as "from the makers of Genshin Impact."
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 18:26
|
|
|
Clarste posted:Like, sequels always do better than the original because the original serves as advertisement for the sequel. It's actually unusual for sequels to do better than the original, because the original has "everyone" for their potential audience, while sequels have "people who played/watched/read the original" as their audience. Put another way, many people aren't willing to start in the middle of a story, and there'll always be a percentage of people who consumed the original media and didn't like it enough to follow through with the sequel. For example, the only Harry Potter movie that made more money than the original at the box office was Deathly Hallows pt 2. The (somewhat) exception is for standalone sequels where the "sequel" is only barely related (if at all) to the original. This (along with significant increases in overall sales base) is why games like Final Fantasy, Call of Duty, Madden, etc sell more copies with each release. And even that isn't universal -- Nothing after Final Fantasy 7 sold as well as 7 did.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 18:45
|
|
|
Well, the latter applies here.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 18:51
|
|
|
Clarste posted:I think it's pretty obvious that it's doing better because Genshin already exists? Like, sequels always do better than the original because the original serves as advertisement for the sequel. Star Rail isn't exactly a sequel to Genshin specifically, but it's cashing in on that brand recognition that Genshin did not have. Like, back when Genshin first came out it was mostly seen as a cool gacha Breath of the Wild, but it did well enough that their next game can be sold entirely as "from the makers of Genshin Impact." It's definitely a pretty big help, but that's still a crazy amount of money coming in again that I did not expect this title to pull off as well given it's comparative simplicity to Genshin. When you look at those Genshin Lab charts that people like to post around the internet too it clearly doesn't tell the full story either. It just reads like 130 million as of today, which given that the 500 million industry milestone was apparently passed back in July (Before Kafka's banner and possibly before Blade's or some time in the midst of it) that would mean that those numbers account for less than a quarter of the games actual revenue to date. Basically people should just be disregarding those charts as insufficient to talk about that sort of stuff at this point but anyway.... Anyway as a point of interest the most revenue breakdown to the game to date is apparently: 1. PR China (38%) 2. Japan (25%) 3. USA/Canada (13%) 4. South Korea (7%) 5. Taiwan (4%) source:https://sensortower.com/ja/blog/star-rail-achieved-500m-dollars-in-global No real surprises there really, though one thing I did note is that when Genshin first launched it had a hard time initially breaking into the Japanese market because of rumors about Chinese government back channel spyware and hard feelings towards the country from Japanese players, so it actually started with US/Canada being it's second best performing region. After Inazuma rolled around though and was super well received in spite of the games Chinese origins (they figured they were respectful towards and did a better job at highlighting ancient Japanese motifs than a lot of games made in Japan even do) the trend completely reversed and to the best of my knowledge Japan has been Genshin Impact's second highest source of revenue ever since. This has never happened with Honkai Star Rail clearly though and it just got off to a hot start from the get go in Japan and was instantly the top grossing title in the country on the day of it's release with Seele's banner. The game could probably fund itself off the money from China and Japan alone indefinitely if it came down to it I would imagine.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 19:02
|
|
|
The global market is always relatively negligible in gacha games. We just don't have as much of a whale culture I guess?
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 19:09
|
|
|
I think in a vacuum its fair to say that star rail just wouldn't have done this well without Genshin. I'd love to see the sort of proportional sales for star rail on platforms (Phones / PC) because it just meshes better for phones than Genshin and thats where the big money is at. Also theres more money in gaming now than in the yesteryears. FFXVI will outsell older FF games on raw numbers during the first weeks of release, which is amazing considering how diminished something like the japanese console gaming market is compared to its heyday. Lifetime sales will pale in comparison for a variety of reasons
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 19:13
|
|
|
Genovera posted:Well, there's different effects each time, which can be more or less helpful depending on your teams. The bonuses definitely make an impact. The first 2 weeks of Blade's banner was an awesome bonus for everyone, the second not so much. I'm still building team DoT, so I can't even take advantage of Kafka's banner at the moment. By the time I do have Kafka and Sampo traced, we'll be in 1.3 with different effects and maybe a new shake-up in MoC 6.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 19:24
|
|
|
I got 30 stars last time but apparently I can't beat the final one without that debuff so I'll have to settle for 27 this time.
Clarste fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Aug 27, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 19:28
|
|
|
We've got actual numbers for Topaz, plus some tweaks to her kit. Somehow looking forward to her even more now. And her animations are great, super adorable with Numby following her around even in the overworld. Here's her updated kit: Basic Attack: Standard, but see A2 trace. Talent: Summons Numby at the start of the fight. He has speed 80 and always attacks the target with "Proof of Debt" for 150% attack as fire damage, which counts as a follow-up attack. Whenever an enemy with Proof of Debt takes damage from a follow-up attack (except from Numby), Numby's turn is advanced forward 50%. Numby goes away if Topaz dies, but not if she's CC'd. Skill: Mark a target with "Proof of Debt", which increases damage from follow-up attacks by 50%. Also immediately causes Numby to attack for his standard 150% damage as a follow-up attack. If there's no enemy with Proof of Debt active when an ally takes a turn, a random enemy gains the status. Ult (costs 130): Numby enters "Astonishing Rise!" state, gaining +150% damage and +25% crit damage, and whenever an enemy with Proof of Debt is hit by a basic attack, skill, or ultimate, Numby's turn advances forward 50%. This lasts for 2 attacks. Technique: (Passive) Numby always follows Topaz around in the overworld and acts as a radar for basic treasures and warp trotters. (Active) Topaz regenerates 60 Energy after Numby's first attack in the next battle. If Topaz is still in the team when the enemies are defeated, you gain a small amount of credits (max 10,000 per day). In SU, instead receive a small amount of fragments and a chance for a curio. A2 trace: Turns basic attack into a follow-up attack. A4 trace: +15% damage vs fire weakness. A6 trace: Topaz regenerates 10 energy whenever Numby attacks in "Astonishing Rise!" state. E1 eidolon: Whenever an enemy with Proof of Debt is damaged by a follow-up attack, they gain a stack of Debtor (max 2). Each stack increases crit damage from follow-up attacks by 25%. E2 eidolon: Topaz regenerates 5 energy whenever Numby attacks on his turn (I don't think the Skill counts, by the wording). E4 eidolon: Whenever Numby's turn begins, Topaz's turn advances forward 20%. E6 eidolon: unknown, the source I'm getting this from has a clear error here with a weird pseudo-repeat of the E1. The things to note here are the huge advance forward Numby gets from follow-up attacks and the massive follow-up attack damage buff Topaz hands out passively. With her basic attack now counting as a follow-up on its own, she's now an extremely viable SP positive sub-DPS/offensive support for follow-up attack teams. She'll do more damage overall by using her Skill because 100% of a Numby turn is better than 50%, but 50% of a turn every time Clara retaliates or JY's summon goes off is pretty great. In the right party, Numby's speed should be essentially irrelevant. Topaz should also regenerate energy at a pretty significant clip, especially with her ult essentially only being 110 energy after taking her A6 trace into account. And here's her animations: https://streamable.com/76jz8n Adorable LC too:  There're updates for Jingliu too but I'm not pulling for her so someone else can play the hype man there :P Zurai fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Aug 27, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 19:50
|
|
|
Guinaifen is the best actually, since she gets a trace that accelerates her first turn and can apply her dot with her basic attack, making her the perfect sub-dps partner for Kafka (since Kafka's "weakness" is that she can't apply her own dot without either a follow-up or an ult). Edit: Oh yeah, and she also applies a stacking damage taken debuff every time her dots deal damage. Clarste fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Aug 27, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 19:58
|
|
|
gently caress, topaz's kit looks so good for my already built clara, might have to skip fu xuan for her but pulling for fu xuan will probably get me another four star healer argh choices!
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 20:18
|
|
|
drat I want topaz now, yeah. Praying once again that I actually win a 50:50 for once so I stand a chance of grabbing her.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 20:22
|
|
|
Topaz here to fix all the things people dislike about JY, it's always a shame to be an early adopter.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 20:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 20:58 |
|
|
Well, she also passively buffs the heck out of JY.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2023 20:29
|
|