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Can we get a thread title change to „Technically not a collar“?
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Sep 6, 2023 22:11
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| # ? May 20, 2024 12:32 |
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One other thing that might be a show improvement. Nynaeve learning the sword. It gives her some agency lacking when she doesn't have access to the source. Hell make her an eventually BladeCenter, who cares.
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Sep 6, 2023 22:12
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Yea it’s a little more hosed up in the books but she knew she was about to die and wanted to keep him alive for Nynaeve. As far as we know in the TV show she doesn’t know shes gonna die so it just looks mean for no reason other than she just wants to drive him away, presumably to Nynaeve for some inexplicable reason. I’d be unhappy if she just listened to Min about her dieing instead of going through the gates.
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Sep 6, 2023 22:15
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DTurtle posted:It goes around the neck, it is close enough to be a collar - especially when you know that it is the most defining thing of the Seanchan. jesus christ calm down about this. people actually do disagree with you and posting the same thing over and over isn't convincing anyone personally i didn't recognize the gold gorget/spaulder things as collars, nor did i notice the gold bracer as a corresponding bracelet because their costuming was so drat busy and those things look nothing like the things i'd expect an a'dam to look like that said, cailleask posted:I think a root issue here is whether the show is aligning to the LETTER of what happened in the books vs the SPIRIT of what happened in the books. 
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Sep 6, 2023 22:21
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DTurtle posted:Sorry, still can’t get over the fact that so many idiots have been so distracted by the pacifiers that they missed the A‘dam for two loving years. In defense of many of us idiots, collars and necklaces meaning the same thing in English is lost in translation. 
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Sep 6, 2023 22:23
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buffalo all day posted:She actually does pass his bond to another sister without his consent before exposing herself to mortal danger, which given what we know about warder relationships is much more hosed up then just being mean to him to drive him away. If anything he has less of a choice in the books about what happens than he does here. As already noted this is different from what occurred on the show, and the original thrust of this discussion was the statement that the show changes are only accelerating or combining or effectively illustrating events or themes that occurred in the books. There's been plenty of instances when that did not happen.
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Sep 6, 2023 22:24
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Probate anyone who argues about collars with the reason "training"
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Sep 6, 2023 22:24
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Hooplah posted:jesus christ calm down about this. people actually do disagree with you and posting the same thing over and over isn't convincing anyone Donnerberg posted:In defense of many of us idiots, collars and necklaces meaning the same thing in English is lost in translation. Edit: vvv yes bracers, corrected that. And it’s not rage, it’s laughter. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) DTurtle fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Sep 6, 2023 |
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Sep 6, 2023 22:26
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DTurtle posted:It goes around the neck, it is close enough to be a collar - especially when you know that it is the most defining thing of the Seanchan. Bracers I assume you mean in your frothing rage, and yeah maybe they're easy to miss because suldam are staged to stand literally directly behind someone else when they're in most of their scenes. It's not great design, when the books point out that the very first thing anyone notes when seeing a suldam/damane pair for the first time is the a'dam. I'll just assume the pacifiers control the damane via radiowaves into their fillings until the show tells me otherwise.
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Sep 6, 2023 22:27
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My main issue with the Seanchan scene was Suroth's giant impractical throne, which was big enough for three people. Xerxes called and he's jealous. Yes, it neatly demonstrates that she's this unapproachable noble but it's a little odd to be lugging her around on the front lines like that.
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Sep 6, 2023 22:28
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Yeah but like everything to do with the Seanchan in the books is insane and over the top. Now Suroth is literally insanely over the top. Seems fine to me? Her gigantic litter is being carried on the backs of her slave army (of da’covale). It’s a nice visual metaphor for the entire Seanchan empire being built on the backs of slaves.
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Sep 6, 2023 22:37
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The "collars" and "bracelets" both look like the armor that half the people in the show wear, there's literally no visual connection between them more than any other piece of costuming. They could have made things far more obvious on screen and stayed true to the books by just having it be a leash but hey keep calling people stupid for not noticing something that's not actually there.
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Sep 6, 2023 22:40
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DTurtle posted:I’m not trying to convince anyone. I am laughing at you. This guy is basically the Joker
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Sep 6, 2023 22:44
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thekeeshman posted:The "collars" and "bracelets" both look like the armor that half the people in the show wear, there's literally no visual connection between them more than any other piece of costuming. They could have made things far more obvious on screen and stayed true to the books by just having it be a leash but hey keep calling people stupid for not noticing something that's not actually there.  Thank you for this post - keep em coming! I can really use the laughter right now 
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Sep 6, 2023 22:48
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Sep 6, 2023 22:50
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thekeeshman posted:The "collars" and "bracelets" both look like the armor that half the people in the show wear, there's literally no visual connection between them more than any other piece of costuming. They could have made things far more obvious on screen and stayed true to the books by just having it be a leash but hey keep calling people stupid for not noticing something that's not actually there. ONE YEAR LATER posted:They will explain the damane, sul'dam, and a'dam in the show when Egwene is captured, the same way it happens in the books.
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Sep 6, 2023 22:51
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DTurtle posted:„Not actually there“: Every single Seanchan soldier is wearing bracers that look almost identical to the a'dam bracelets. Everyone in the Seanchan is covered in gold/bronze bits. There is literally nothing that indicates that either the collars or the bracers are in any way relevant to what is going on. The fact that the suldam are just standing quietly behind their charges also indicates pretty much nothing. This is just bad visual design.
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Sep 6, 2023 22:53
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Ah yes, "Tell don't show" is the first rule of film after all.
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Sep 6, 2023 22:55
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thekeeshman posted:Every single Seanchan soldier is wearing bracers that look almost identical to the a'dam bracelets. Everyone in the Seanchan is covered in gold/bronze bits. There is literally nothing that indicates that either the collars or the bracers are in any way relevant to what is going on. The fact that the suldam are just standing quietly behind their charges also indicates pretty much nothing. This is just bad visual design.  It’s fine for non-book readers to miss the existence, importance and significance of the A‘dam - after all there has been nothing pointing at those parts of the costumes as being really important. It’s another thing for people in the know to miss them.
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Sep 6, 2023 23:00
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Just casually carrying a bagful of those and slipping them around the torso and under the shoulders when attacking the white towerwithak posted:Can't remember if this means hosed into submission by a green, or something else. yes
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Sep 6, 2023 23:04
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DTurtle posted:„Standing quietly“ Yes, they do one move, and then they stand quietly while the damane do everything else, with no indication that they are in any way in control of them or connected at all. As a book reader, I know what is supposed to be there, but I have noticed that it's not there, hence my comments.
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Sep 6, 2023 23:05
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:Just casually carrying a bagful of those and slipping them around the torso and under the shoulders when attacking the white tower Now I'm just imagining someone at an off-leash dog park trying to wrangle every pupper they come across.
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Sep 6, 2023 23:07
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The Book Barn › [BOOK SPOILERS] Robert Jordan's Waste of Time -- Male Posters Can't Shut Up About Collars
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Sep 6, 2023 23:10
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thekeeshman posted:Yes, they do one move, and then they stand quietly while the damane do everything else, with no indication that they are in any way in control of them or connected at all. As a book reader, I know what is supposed to be there, but I have noticed that it's not there, hence my comments. Right… I mean, do you also miss the fact that those damane had something to do with the tidal wave? After all, they did some guestures, some flows appeared, then they stood still, and only then did the tidal wave appear. Who could imagine that those things might be connected? DTurtle fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Sep 6, 2023 |
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Sep 6, 2023 23:16
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Probate anyone who argues about collars with the reason "training"
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Sep 6, 2023 23:18
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You're honestly being weird about the whole thing. I'm not obsessively rewatching every episode to glean every little detail - I've read each book more a dozen times, I'm over overanalyzing WoT content. I did miss the things as A'dam when first watching, but now that you're pointing it out, it's obvious that you're right. But I'm not the only book reader who missed this, so the visuals are not as obvious as you make them out to be. Why aren't you happy that you caught a detail others have missed, instead of berating us for how dumb we are for not recognizing these things as collars?
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Sep 6, 2023 23:20
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nine-gear crow posted:The Book Barn › [BOOK SPOILERS] Robert Jordan's Waste of Time -- Male Posters Can't Shut Up About Collars Getting hot under the Spanish collars
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Sep 6, 2023 23:20
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thekeeshman posted:Ah yes, "Tell don't show" is the first rule of film after all. Very disingenuous post, in both content and tone. There's no reason to explain what is going on at this point, it's intentionally vague and mysterious for people who havent read the books. I know you know this.
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Sep 6, 2023 23:21
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Probate anyone who argues about collars with the reason "training" Yeah this, I'll happily eat the sixer if we can move beyond this topic.
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Sep 6, 2023 23:21
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Torrannor posted:You're honestly being weird about the whole thing. I'm not obsessively rewatching every episode to glean every little detail - I've read each book more a dozen times, I'm over overanalyzing WoT content. I did miss the things as A'dam when first watching, but now that you're pointing it out, it's obvious that you're right. But I'm not the only book reader who missed this, so the visuals are not as obvious as you make them out to be. Why aren't you happy that you caught a detail others have missed, instead of berating us for how dumb we are for not recognizing these things as collars? You know why 
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Sep 6, 2023 23:21
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I read up through like book ten ages ago but when the TV show started I picked up the series at book one and committed to reading a chapter a night. I finish AMoL on Sunday 😤
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Sep 6, 2023 23:21
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Joementum posted:I read up through like book ten ages ago but when the TV show started I picked up the series at book one and committed to reading a chapter a night. I finish AMoL on Sunday 😤 Please tell me you didn't stick to one chapter/night through AMoL 
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Sep 6, 2023 23:23
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Torrannor posted:You're honestly being weird about the whole thing. I'm not obsessively rewatching every episode to glean every little detail - I've read each book more a dozen times, I'm over overanalyzing WoT content. I did miss the things as A'dam when first watching, but now that you're pointing it out, it's obvious that you're right. But I'm not the only book reader who missed this, so the visuals are not as obvious as you make them out to be. Why aren't you happy that you caught a detail others have missed, instead of berating us for how dumb we are for not recognizing these things as collars? When people still try to argue about it being there (and noticeable to some degree)? Not to mention arguing about minor details like it „technically not being a collar,“ „Sul’dam just standing there“, „Sul’dam and Damane being unconnected“? Sorry, I will call that out. And yes, this does also play a part: pik_d posted:You know why ONE YEAR LATER posted:Very disingenuous post, in both content and tone. DTurtle fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Sep 6, 2023 |
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Sep 6, 2023 23:27
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In all this discussion about collars, we were primed to expect a certain thing by the books themselves: https://jcsalomon.github.io/wot-chapter-icons/ The show’s version of the a’dam looks nothing like what we were given in the past. It’s no wonder we didn’t notice the new design for what it is. I like that the show keeps hiding things in plain sight, even for book readers.
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Sep 6, 2023 23:30
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pik_d posted:Please tell me you didn't stick to one chapter/night through AMoL Heh no. I keep track of if I’ve met my reading goals each day and had to let the “read a chapter of fantasy” pile up through that. I’ve still got five or six to clear out of the backlog now but am going through some lighter stuff. It helps that AMoL ends with a bunch of 3 and 4 page chapters.
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Sep 6, 2023 23:31
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Very disingenuous post, in both content and tone. Nonsense, it's not supposed to be vague and mysterious, it's supposed to be obvious that the channelers who are literally leashed are enslaved and controlled. The fact that the show makes it vague and mysterious is exactly what I'm criticizing. The non-book audience should see the damane and immediately be afraid that's going to happen to one of the main characters, instead of having no idea what's going on.
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Sep 6, 2023 23:50
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thekeeshman posted:Nonsense, it's not supposed to be vague and mysterious, it's supposed to be obvious that the channelers who are literally leashed are enslaved and controlled. The fact that the show makes it vague and mysterious is exactly what I'm criticizing. The non-book audience should see the damane and immediately be afraid that's going to happen to one of the main characters, instead of having no idea what's going on. Most of the time, stuff hits harder when there is some build up to the reveal. So far, a non-book reader knows that the Seanchan are very different from everyone else, actively use casters in battle, are very willing to use violence in order to enforce their rule, something is very weird with their casters, and that those casters for some reason pointed out some girls who were then dragged away. I think that that mirrors the experience of the Shienarans (and others) in the book, who only very slowly figure out and understand what the Seanchan are actually really about. In the books, don’t we only figure out what the Damane, Sul‘dam and A‘dam really are when/after Egwene is captured? DTurtle fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Sep 7, 2023 |
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Sep 6, 2023 23:59
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collar chat is worse than tylin chat 
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Sep 7, 2023 00:14
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Is mats scarf a collar
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Sep 7, 2023 00:17
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| # ? May 20, 2024 12:32 |
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thekeeshman posted:The fact that the show makes it vague and mysterious is exactly what I'm criticizing. This is not, in fact, a fact. Of all the non-book watchers I've seen, no one has been confused about this. At all.
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Sep 7, 2023 00:31
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